Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[ShroudedOne]

Puff has like, no stages these days, I realized. Yoshi's sucks, BF is pretty meh vs spacies (top platform sucks), FD let's you track her jumps a lot easier (she doesn't have access to edgecancels or other silly things like that) and the ceiling is low, and Stadium is Stadium. She pretty much just has FoD and Dreamland (and I'm not of the mind that FoD is that good for her vs Falco).

Airdodging down sounds really, really good as a mixup, actually. I should try that.

On second thought, Yoshi's might not be thaaaat bad, if you're on point with your DI. I feel like it might be good for cheesing stocks away with random hits, like Bones said, and it doesn't let him swat you away as easily. But it's Puff.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, I was just throwing YS out there cause I don't think I've ever seen it in a serious match with top players (not counting vs. YL...).

By outspaced all game, I mostly meant it seemed like a lot of your attacks could have landed and led to huge stuff if you were just a tiny bit closer, but maybe that's something Puff has to do and I'm just not used to it (I don't wall like that with Falco except maybe with AC bair once in a while).

Never play scared!

"You don't have to feel safe to feel unafraid."

 

[Mahone]

Puff has like, no stages these days, I realized. Yoshi's sucks, BF is pretty meh vs spacies (top platform sucks), FD let's you track her jumps a lot easier (she doesn't have access to edgecancels or other silly things like that) and the ceiling is low, and Stadium is Stadium. She pretty much just has FoD and Dreamland (and I'm not of the mind that FoD is that good for her vs Falco).

Airdodging down sounds really, really good as a mixup, actually. I should try that.

On second thought, Yoshi's might not be thaaaat bad, if you're on point with your DI. I feel like it might be good for cheesing stocks away with random hits, like Bones said, and it doesn't let him swat you away as easily. But it's Puff.

BF is neutral, edgeguarding is a little easier there (you can hit them under then just grab ledge), yoshi's suck, i like fd vs falco, idk why, but i got wrecked so maybe i should think more about why i like it, stadium is AUTOBAN, if only for how random it is... i HATE IT

I think fod is the best vs falco cuz its small horizontally, so harder for him to run away, high ceiling so not as much shine/upair off the top, vertically low (so u can recover from dairs if u have ur jumps), short plats mess up lasers and can lead to bs rest coverage... there are a couple more things but ya i like fod

dreamland is good but if they camp you its lame, not sure how to feel about it since i dont have much experience on it

Ya i was gonna say in my last reply, but the main thing is im NOT confident in my di, and i dont want one mistake in di to lead to death (other characters are used to this, but jiggs has a sorta freebie on that one a lot of the time)

i think fod is just straight up better than yoshis in like every way tbh

Yeah, I was just throwing YS out there cause I don't think I've ever seen it in a serious match with top players (not counting vs. YL...).

By outspaced all game, I mostly meant it seemed like a lot of your attacks could have landed and led to huge stuff if you were just a tiny bit closer, but maybe that's something Puff has to do and I'm just not used to it (I don't wall like that with Falco except maybe with AC bair once in a while).

Never play scared!

"You don't have to feel safe to feel unafraid."

Ya, i realized i was aiming too high barely a lot of times cuz i was calibrated for like marth height and not falco's height... and also my spacing was a WEEE bit off, gotta work on those wd before jumping like u said

Forget the risk, and take the fall. If it’s what you want, then it’s worth it all.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I think that Falco can abuse more of his AC bair, dair, and UPTILT game on FoD, without really relying on lasers as much, and swat/wall Puff with little hindrance. Yeah, it's harder to kill her there, with the top ceiling and the super low floor...I dunno, FoD just screams dairs and uptilts for Falco, and those moves are very good against Puff, cause she can't really challenge them in any manner.

The low platforms give her movement options that Falco doesn't really get from them, though, so that is another bonus.

But yeah, FoD is much better for her than Yoshi's. And of course this kinda changes vs floaties, her stage roster becomes better then.

 

[idea]

yoshi's is my favourite stage pretty much no matter what character i'm playing

with puff it works pretty well sometimes against campy or slow foxes. basically if one of the main problems is that fox is too fast and you can't get near him, go to yoshi's.

it's also a good stage if you like resting people on platforms (which i do). they die almost necessarily. same for upthrow rest as long as you send them in the right direction.

yeah i think falco is one of the only characters i wouldn't want to play puff vs. on fod. the moving platforms can let him continue his combos randomly. they force you to tech at times when you wouldn't have to on other stages, and jiggs' tech roll sucks. and the high ceiling doesn't matter much since he's usually gonna kill you with a dair or a bair off the side. (unless they happen to use upthrow upair/shine a lot)

also it feels awkward to edgeguard falco there since the camera doesn't zoom out very much.

 

[Get Low]

So after watching many Puff videos, I've noticed that Puff players roll dodge more than any other character. Why is this?

 

[Mahone]

i'm not 100% sure i understand ur question

her other oos options arent that great

and maybe its cuz her forward roll is invul on frame 2, but forward roll is usually bad

 

[idea]

in my case half the time i roll i'm just trying to wd oos with jigglypuff's slow jump...maybe other people have the same problem :/

 

[Bones0]

I don't see Jiggs players rolling that much...

 

[Get Low]

Perhaps I just notice it more when Jiggs players roll because it's so long and noticeable.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, probably.

 

[Bieber]

big house pools are up

mahone how do i beat nintendude

 

[knightpraetor]

i always wanna try wd forward, but i am too much of a ***** cuz it just seems so scary... i should just try it next time

ya, i dont know if ill ever be able to tell if people can slide off or not, its gonna take way too long since i dont know anyone who consistently does it... ill try to go back and watch the vid and look for that

GTFO with that shielddrop bs, im not doing that, im cool with being a worse player and not learning that ****

they arent lazy, i just am guessing that hes going to full hop bair at that moment, cuz if im right i look so smart, but ya, i should be more patient with recovery and just get ready to sdi instead of do lazy airddodges

i dunno what this one means, i pound a lot when recovering, u'll have to point out what times youre talking about



i was gonna review the vid, but i guess html5 youtube took away the 1/4 speed thing?

im too lazy to look, is there an extension for chrome or some easy workaround?

dash forward by marth is godlike for dealing with overshot nair by fox, so I am willing to bet wd forward is quite good. there is a danger cause he will get a solid combo level hit if you are wrong though, so use it (in my opinion) mostly when switching positions will give you enough stage control to wreck him.

also my opinion on stages for what it's worth as a marth main

jiggs vs falco
BF > FoD> YS > PS

I have no idea exactly where DL fits though.

if you want i will watch your vids for you sometime.

 

[Mahone]

big house pools are up

mahone how do i beat nintendude

aw, thats a real unlucky one, nintendude is very good and i think his ics are good vs puff

i'm not sure if you have ics experience but thats basically how you're gonna beat him

you need to know a lot of the tricks ics can do so you can avoid them and you need to know what you can do

-nair is godlike for puff, weave it in and hit the shields or them then weave out and immediately do something else
-upsmash (maybe need a dair to combo into it) and upair are the most godlike moves for killing sopo
-watch out for nanapault blizzard to popo wd upsmash, try to learn that range and stay out of it (its hard because its the kind of range which is common for bair spacing, which is why more nair in this mu will help A LOT)
-always just rest nana if you have the chance, sopo's best punish does 15% and won't kill til like 70? idk just test it yourself, its charged upsmash facing away from you
-don't be afraid to grab, just upthrow real quickly imo, but you could fthrow too and thatll sometimes work well
-be patient when edgeguarding the sideb, i always tend to go out there but its safer/easier if u just wait until they are closer (this is meant for sopo, if its both going out is sweet cuz you can kill nana easily when u interupt it)
-remember that double side-b has like no lag and they can just dsmash right away after landing, but sopo side-b has a lot more lag and doesn't go as high

i dunno if u read that thread by choknator in melee discussion about ics, but it was pretty useful and i asked him some puff vs ics questions in the thread that he answered so check it out, if u cant find it ill look it up

hmm... i find that you have to be really comfortable on the ground in this mu to have a chance

most people seem to think that camping the ics is the way to go, but it doesnt feel that good to me, idk... if u really wanna win i think you can time out sopo pretty easy using the top platform, but nintendude is a cool guy so dont do that lol

what i think is you have to be able to interupt the ics ground movement with quick moves you normally dont do, like illl nair and if my spacing isnt perfect i will need to do a quick ftilt (FTILT *****) or jab and then quickly move again to avoid those painful grabs

id recommend watching mango vs chu from rom but tbh i dont think there are any vids of puffs playing the mu "right", so you just have to try out a lot of what i said and then make your own adjustments/improvements

 

[idea]

on top of what he said ^

the main thing i've learned about ICs is that you have to calculate their wavedash + smash range into your spacing. they have a long wavedash and strong, fast smashes, so it can take a little getting used to. sometimes you have to cover the space they might be about to wavedash + fsmash into (that one specifically is common). it's kind of like fox with his run speed + aerials.

this is one of the main reasons people always say to bair a lot against ICs, it's your best spacing tool to keep them out. so yeah, bair is really good just like in every matchup

nair is good for the same purpose since it's a move that stays out a long time vs. variably timed ground movement. fsmash is decent since it's pretty safe on their shield. only reason it's not especially good is that their fast ground movement means they can punish it easily when you miss. it's also good if they side-b recover over and past you onstage, just fsmash underneath it as they fall. (but until that will kill, you should try to aerial them back off earlier instead)

also fair can be helpful, but not so much when they're on the ground. fair fair fair etc. is fine once they're in the air. it also cuts through their side-b pretty easily. basically any time ICs leave the ground, their aerials suck, so fair becomes better compared to bair (range less useful + speed more useful).

oh, and watch out for fullhop blizzard. it's just unnecessary damage. and you can see it coming 'cause ICs don't fullhop for anything else really lol

oh oh and don't get grabbed.

oh oh oh and. nana loses to uptilt.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Idea vs Duck

Two of the silliest smash tags ever going at it in an epic 20 minute bo3 unless someone gets *****

There can be only one

 

[idea]

lol i'm looking forward to it

even if i lose it'll be a good warm up since you have to play all patient and **** vs. samus

 

[Massive]

Has anybody figured out a way around campy laser foxes yet? I'm coming off my 4th consecutive tournament of being eliminated by campy-laser-fox.

I can usually get a match off of them on yoshi's/battlefield since they can't run away effectively there, but if they get DL64 or Stadium they just laser me and eventually kill me with a random aerial/uthrow > uair.

 

[Bones0]

More hard-read pounds imo. /opinionofanineptjiggsplayer

 

[Mahone]

Has anybody figured out a way around campy laser foxes yet? I'm coming off my 4th consecutive tournament of being eliminated by campy-laser-fox.

I can usually get a match off of them on yoshi's/battlefield since they can't run away effectively there, but if they get DL64 or Stadium they just laser me and eventually kill me with a random aerial/uthrow > uair.

ya just don't fear taking lasers and just focus on how they are moving, not trying to hit them....

like, just jump close to them and see how they react and eat the nair or whatever they do... just don't get frustrated and keep testing how they react to different situations...

then, when ur confident in your reads, get close and hard read what they are going to do and rest them...

itll probably just be a trade since you've taken so much laser damage, but usually campy foxes aren't good at adapting so you should have the advantage for the rest of the match


the worst is when they are really good at quickly switching from campy to aggro, cuz then when you are observing their movement they suddenly upthrow upair you and kill you... not too sure how to beat that type of fox yet, but straight campy ones are manageable

 

[Bones0]

The important thing is to realize Fox's lasers have very little stun.

 

[knightpraetor]

mahone let's go to the draft together this thursday. i'm going to draft all the bad cards lol

actually is there a way i can play magic online with you? I've done it before but i forgot the name of the program

 

[idea]

laser campy fox isn't really that scary...basically all the fox is doing is running away from you and jumping with no hitbox out. so you can corner them easily and kinda just hit them.

make sure you mainly move around by wavedashing when they're lasering. most of the lasers won't hit you and you'll be auto-crouch canceling.

if that's really ALL the fox is good at you can take them to FD, but that's usually a good stage for fox imo, so be careful with that. if it were me i'd pick yoshi's for sure.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Idea vs Duck

Two of the silliest smash tags ever

Hey man, Im Chillindude8077678 and I play ****s. How are you?

-Sup, Im Mew2King. I never play MewTwo

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Dr. Peepee.

And you clearly don't know about M2K's Mewtwo.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Dr. Peepee.

And you clearly don't know about M2K's Mewtwo.

At least he's a doctor, makes it much better.

Yea I don't

 

[Rockenos]

mahone let's go to the draft together this thursday. i'm going to draft all the bad cards lol

actually is there a way i can play magic online with you? I've done it before but i forgot the name of the program

Oh Mahone plays magic? Awesome!
Anyways, there's Magic Online and Lackey. Lackey is free but not as cool as Magic Online, as Magic Online has tournaments and legitimate sanctioned play, whereas Lackey is more for playtesting and casual games.
I have both =D

You guys hyped for Return to Ravnica? I won my local prerelease, got a Jace, a foil Blood Crypt, a Hallowed Fountain, two Temple Gardens, a Niv Mizzet, and a bunch of decent rares like Dreadbore.

 

[Mahone]

You mother ****er, u just made like 500 dollars haha

good stuff

naw, i don't really play magic, too expensive for me, i just randomly went to a draft last weekend because i was bored

I absolutely love to cube though, i just use tappedout and cockatrice, but everyone is always busy so i never get to do it

If you're ever down to cube just let me know

Also, before crinks comes in and ruins the party, we should probably talk about this in the social thread

 

[Winston]

Return to Ravnica sucks

 

[Mahone]

Return to Ravnica sucks

WINSTONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

sounds like someone got ***** at their prerelease

at least you got a letter from your guild leader lololol

was that like the gayest thing ever? i almost went just to get that letter

 

[Winston]

Lmao it was pretty gay

I went 1-2 as Izzet and 4-0 as Golgari, I still don't care, the set is so overhyped

 

[Bones0]

Sounds like someone is salty.

 

[Krynxe]

Like Mahone said, social thread

Spoiler

I miss timespiral days :<

 

[Kaizer]

i'm teaming with a peach, any strategic ideas? i'm thinking mainly puff in the air, peach on the ground? pretty annoying team, i think.

 

[Bones0]

I know nothing about teams, but I'd get these four things sorted out:

1. Edge guarding. Which player/character is on the stage, and which is on the ledge. I'd imagine Puff is much better on the ledge, but Peach likes to float out, so maybe coordinate so that when Peach floats out to intercept, Puff will wait on stage in case they get past, and vice versa if Puff is the one jumping out.

2. Turnips. Projectiles seem to make or break teams. Falcos that shoot their teammate in the back or teammates that jump in front and block Falco's lasers always suffer for it, whereas properly covering space with lasers and attacking from above or below that area seems really effective. Since Peach has to be on the ground to pull turnips, I'd agree with you that she'll probably want to stay on the ground (also because her ground moves are way better than Puff's).

3. Grab-rests are dirty. Abuse them. Other throw combos would be good to have setup beforehand as well. Like maybe Puff can bthrow into Peach's usmash or something.

4. Saves. Peach and Puff rarely need saving when they're off stage, but being able to wake up Puff quickly and safely and being able to clear the ledge for Peach as she's about to up-B to the ledge are pretty important.

 

[Massive]

Puff's dair shieldpokes really well.
You can use it to start all kinds of shenanigans with peach's downsmash, turnips, or any of her other options.

Actually puff's dair is beneficial for pretty much any teammate.

 

[mexicanmax227]

Ive experimented with this match up some in the past but not lately. ANy current meta advice, im aware of always Di'ing while in sheild to prevent easy up throw rest thats about it. Im pretty powerful on dreamland as well. Everything else is a blur. The basics, principals and current strats vs. this puff ball in the perspective of marth. Again im a marth main looking to get better. ANy puff advice is gold to me.

 

[Bieber]

2-0'd nintendude, thanks for the tips mahone and idea


played like butt and got destroyed in round 2 pools though lol

 

[Kaizer]

how do i beat armada, you guys? jesus

 

[Krynxe]

Peach MU or y.link MU?