M2K stuff about Marth (big update first post)

[Ciel~Image]

Wow, I hate wordfilters but that was pretty rad.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth has below average killing ability compared to most characters?

What?

Just stop now M2K seriously.

There are only a handful of characters that can kill on his level and only one or two that kill better, G&W being one of them. You said I don't know what I'm talking about and then just post something that is blatantly false.

Come on bro. Post more lies so I can deconstruct it. It's alot of fun and I'm bored right now. That post I made about Marth's KO options was tested. Not stuff I pulled out of nowhere.

If you want to debate with me, then please do better. You now me well enough to know that I will crush any false argument.

And yeah, I have been noticing that if you don't tipper your hits it takes a bit longer to kill, but when I play other characters, it's even worse because alot of characters don't compare to Marth in terms of how low he can kill. It's just a matter of getting used to his new spacing.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

marth lower killing abitily. now u should be done thats the stupid thing i ve ever heard. listen to m2k people

 

[Emblem Lord]

Eh?

Wait. What?

You said that saying Marth has low killing ability is dumb, but then say listen to M2K?

Isn't that a contradiction?

 

[Mew2King]

marth DOESNT kill well besides tipper F smash, his 2nd strongest move is his 2nd hit of nair tippered and tipper down smash (excluding any charged moves of course, that goes for everyone though)

EL you keep saying things like Marth is broken in this and that and he's really not most of the time. If you fight somebody really good that camps a lot he has a hard time doing well.

Also Marth's worst neutral is FD, his best is Battlefield, based on experience.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Whoa whoa...whoa.

WHOA!!!

When did I say Marth was broken?

I just said he was good.

Also Marth kills well i.e he kills better then alot of the cast except for about 6 or 7 of them.

 

[teh_spamerer]

marth DOESNT kill well besides tipper F smash, his 2nd strongest move is his 2nd hit of nair tippered and tipper down smash (excluding any charged moves of course, that goes for everyone though)

LOLOL jason wtf? Practically every one of Marth's moves kill .

 

[Mew2King]

Most of his moves even tippered kill around 140 at max power as long as you DI decently, attack power deteoriation hurts Marth possibly the most of all characters.

 

[Emblem Lord]

He has ways around that like all characters.

Also stop overexaggerating.

You keep saying that attack deteoration hurts him the more then alot of other characters That's impossble. First off attack deteroation doesn't even matter that much as long as you use one or two moves to spam and keep your other moves strong. Marth has dancing blade for this and all characters have grabs and grab hits to mitigate this.

Secondly how can it hurt him more then all the other characters that are worse then him, or the characters that outright suck like Ganon or Yoshi?

Maybe you need to stop misinterpreting what I say and instead invest some energy into trying to understand the things that YOU say because I don't think you even understand what you type.

Marth has alot of kill options because most characters enter thier "kill zone" around 130. Marth hits his around 80. And even then most characters have 2-4 reliable moves. Once Marth gets an opponent up to around 120ish his kill options are greatly increased. He has options, which is a very good thing.

 

[Linguini]

Marth does not have AMAZING killing ability, it's pretty good compared to the rest of the cast, but nothing compared to characters like GW,Snake,Ike, and Kirby(yes kirby's f-smash and bair are broken).
I find that its really easy to trick people with the new dsmash that has massive range and I dont think that enough marth players abuse it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You named a couple of the characters that kill better then Marth.

Still doesn't change the fact that M2K can't debate for **** and that he pulls random **** of his *** that makes no sense.

Despite this I still like him and enjoy talking to him...IRL anyway.

Ike and Kirby are irrelevant though IMO since Marth is overall better then them. Also Marth will kill better then Ike or Kirby anyway at the highest level form what I have seen.

Point is though, he has alot of options. and He has good range too which makes it easier to kill. Marth has the most viable kill options out of the whole cast.

Viable meaning a reliable kill move that will see consistent use.

 

[Famous]

Most of his moves even tippered kill around 140 at max power as long as you DI decently, attack power deteoriation hurts Marth possibly the most of all characters.

His U-Smash hitbox is broken. It hits you if your standing beside him and it kills easily without sweetspotting at all...(That goes for his F-smash as well.)

Lol, if this was mentioned before ignore this post

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

m2k marth does kill well. im sorry to say but jason he does

 

[Linguini]

You named a couple of the characters that kill better then Marth.

Still doesn't change the fact that M2K can't debate for **** and that he pulls random **** of his *** that makes no sense.

Despite this I still like him and enjoy talking to him...IRL anyway.

Ike and Kirby are irrelevant though IMO since Marth is overall better then them. Also Marth will kill better then Ike or Kirby anyway at the highest level form what I have seen.

Point is though, he has alot of options. and He has good range too which makes it easier to kill. Marth has the most viable kill options out of the whole cast.

Viable meaning a reliable kill move that will see consistent use.

Kirby is just as good as marth....sadly in this game.
Ive found that the best way to dispose of kirby is whip out my **** in his mouth and give him the power of ***!

 

[Emblem Lord]

>_>

Ummmmmm...what?

LOL.

 

[Aesir]

Lack of crouch canceling in this game makes fighting marth really tough =[

 

[Mew2King]

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Azen

 

[Tee-man]

Nice work bro, keep it up!

:D

 

[uremog]

lol, what? something about azen?

and what's with the complaint about up smash? melee up smash sucked bad. this one's actually useful. it's not like it has a lot of horizontal range though. and compared to other attacks, i wouldn't call it a low% killer. but really, lol @ fsmash comment, it's hella short now.

 

[hario.hige]

Without tip, fsmash and usmash won't start killing consistently until 120% or so, depending on where you are on the stage.

Azen plays Ike, which I believe is the reference.

I think Emblem Lord gives Marth too much credit while M2K does the opposite.

If someone out there has insane reflexes and starts tipping with every hit, Marth's power obviously increases greatly. With the increase in air-dodging, spot-dodging, and shielding capabilities, I think it's not as easy as it sounds to consistently kill at <100% with Marth, unless you're playing against Jigglypuff.

I think Olimar has it a bit easier in the kill department than Marth, to be quite honest.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I certainly don't give him too much credit.

I think I'm the most level headed when it comes to Marth in the whole Marth forums. I never say Marth is broken or a god and I never say he sucks. I just say he is good.

There are about 6 or 7 characters that are better then Marth overall.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

pff, like who?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Snake, Falco, Wolf, Toon Link, maybe Dedede. Probably Zelda. MK and Pit are more or less on the same level as him. Also G&W is up there too IMO.

Maybe R.O.B as well. I have to mess with him some more, before I make an accurate judgement on that though.

But Marth is definitely not the best.

He is very good though, no doubt about that.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well, since I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere I thought I'd post it here.

A while ago we said that Marth's side B no longer gives vertical height. However, I've found that it only acts like this while falling.

Now, what I've figured out (sorry if someone's already posted this btw) is that Marth's side B still gives a set height boost if used at any point before the apex of his jump(s). This can be most easily seen on low gravity, but is also noticable in normal brawl.

Do a full jump and notice how high you go. Next, do a full jump and right before the apex of your jump do a side B. You should immediately notice that you go higher.

What does this mean? Well, other than helping recovery I really don't know, but I like to contribute random things like that.

 

[hario.hige]

Side-B also provides horizontal momentum if used in a B-stick manner, as in side-B to the right while moving left in the air.

 

[Terranrox]

Nice job M2K... I like your combo idea...

And I also agree on your review on Marth from the Melee to Brawl conversion...
It took me all the time I had trying to be good with Marth in brawl... My old wave dash combos goes to waste, the short hop in brawl goes way too high....
but I'm hangin in there...

btw even though they say special brawl, high gravity gives brawl a melee feeling honestly I dont think they did much

 

[knightpraetor]

Snake, Falco, Wolf, Toon Link, maybe Dedede. Probably Zelda. MK and Pit are more or less on the same level as him. Also G&W is up there too IMO.

Maybe R.O.B as well. I have to mess with him some more, before I make an accurate judgement on that though.

Disagree on the ROB, curious about the zelda (i thought zelda was garbage in this game, but come to think of it i was only comparing her fair and bair to before).

why does everyone have such a high opinion of snake? i want to see more pro snake vids...i still don't see why he's god tier..i could understand thinking he was 6th or 7th, but a lot of people seem to think he's the best in the game

 

[Emblem Lord]

Mess with his hitboxes.

Then get back to me.

ROB...eh..he is weak as hell that is true, but his tilts have great range, they outrange Marth. His cmaping isn't that serious, but his laser is nice. He can't kill for **** though. Good edgeguarding though.

Zelda...pshhh..**** fair and bair. That's just icing on the cake. You need to look at...uhhhh EVERYTHING ELSE. D-tilt trips about 90% of the time and even when it doesn't it puts her enemy into crumple stun so she gets a free u-smash. F-tilt has good range. Naryu's love is a good defensive move. D-smash is way better. Faster and stronger. U-smash is crazy strong and with high knockback. Uair is stupid strong as well. Honestly she is just too strong with easy combo strings and d-tilt sets up for u-smash at any percent and it's very very hard to get out of. You only have a few frames to actually get away at higher percents. The d-tilt will pop you up at higher percents, which sets up for the U-smash. The d-tilt can be DIed but its tough.

Also Din's Fire is stupid now. Huge blast radiius when held for the longest time. Alot of knockback too. Thanks to this move she laughs at stale move negation.

 

[Magus420]

Who actually gets hit by Din's Fire? Also the u-smash is so easy to get out of once you know what part of the move to smash DI. I got out of it ~10 times in a row with Marth against Dave by tapping Up on the control stick then immediately tapping Up on the c-stick in succession just before about halfway through the move (I'm pretty sure you can SDI with the c-stick now).

 

[Emblem Lord]

Haha.

Yeah, I have been playing Dave alot too, and I have been DIing out of it alot better in the last few games we played.

Zelda is still good though. Can't deny that.

 

[BacklashMarth]

M2k = awesome. You mus've been good in melee. Like Emblem Lord said why doesn't anyone spam the combo? Its almost the only thing you need to kill someone (that and f-air).

 

[Mew2King]

that combo doesn't work it was something I made like 2 hours after getting the game before me or my friend was used to the physics of it and the extremely little hitstun.

 

[MyRevenge.]

Then what exactly does work?
Just curious :D

 

[Mew2King]

fair to forward B combos at low % works, cuz they slide away from the fair a bit you can just run at them and forward B combo. That's by far marth's best combo at low %. F throw F smash and down throw F smash in my experience usually tippers them at the edge, although it's not really a legit combo and requires them to not DI good.


In teams I like to hope they full jump while my teammate attacks low. That way they are pressuring them from below, and I'm pressuring them from above, hitting them with Fairs any time they jump. I also like to up B out of shield a lot in teams, but that's only good if my teammate protects me as I'm landing, but it does hit them away and makes me invincible frames 1-5 as I'm doing it and that's good.

 

[MyRevenge.]

Allright, thanks again M2K...
Also, one more noob question.... I've been seeing up-b out of shield a lot... and I can't do it...
Do you mean directly out of shield (like shield grab) or do u let go and up-b right away..?
It works for me when I let go... but by then it always gets shielded an I'm left vulnerable

 

[Teczer0]

m2k hate on brawl more.

LOL.

Im not used to marth not having combos .

 

[Doomblaze]

Allright, thanks again M2K...
Also, one more noob question.... I've been seeing up-b out of shield a lot... and I can't do it...
Do you mean directly out of shield (like shield grab) or do u let go and up-b right away..?
It works for me when I let go... but by then it always gets shielded an I'm left vulnerable

Yes, while in your shield.
To up-B out of shield, its best to do it when they're pressuring your shield and dont look like theyre gonna shield soon. Just practice pressing up-b when in your shield, it takes a little getting used to. Since i remember M2K saying that you shd leave your tap-jump ON with marth, it means that you first jump then press b, but it should be fast enough that you do not get hurt.

Lack of combos maekes me sad...

 

[Linguini]

Marth got SO boring SO fast, I quit him already.

 

[Teczer0]

Brawl got SO boring SO fast.

I know it happened with me too.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth is not a combo character. He is a control character.