Luigi in Brawl+

[Magus420]

With DI there's a window for which this combo is inescapable, but it decreases in size enough such that I definitely do not feel that this combo is broken at all anymore.

Do you have some ranges for it working with proper DI? I think that'd be more useful to know than it being a combo off of bad DI up to 200%, since d-throw n-air kills in the lower end of the 100s not long after aerial up-B begins to, and then a simple b-throw starts to KO around the mid 100s.

 

[Plum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nubWd9fsJqA&feature=channel_page

This is why Boss is great.
Match is vs JCaesar's Squirtle. And why every Luigi player needs to learn how to button mash fast enough to rise with the cyclone even without a double jump (something I still can't do T_T)

Speaking of Squirtle, can anybody see what percents Up B can actually kill him, or even if it actually works on him? He might be floaty enough to get out of it. If it does work though, probably isn't worth it due to his fire resistance, and Dthrow Nair would probably end up being the better option.

 

[weinzey]

how does boss button mash so insanely fast?
does he use more than one button set to specials in order to be able to mash it faster?
might be a good idea...

 

[Plum]

how does boss button mash so insanely fast?
does he use more than one button set to specials in order to be able to mash it faster?
might be a good idea...

It's something I tried, but really it isn't worth it. You would have to have perfect coordination so that the button presses don't overlap with one another, because if you do the game doesn't keep track of the overlapped presses and you just loose even more distance.

It really all comes down to learning how to press the button as fast as possible.

I've been forcing myself to go into training mode and do nothing but jumpless Down B each time I sit down at my Wii before and after every session. For me, I have found the most success in "vibrating" my forearm instead of actually trying to press the button that fast. If it was up to my thumb, there is no way I could even come close. Occasionally I get the rise, most of the time I just cancel out the downwards momentum and stay in place or get a small vertical boost. It's hard but something you need to learn how to do.

It allows so much potential for mixing up Luigi's recovery which is a necessity considering how predictable it is, and as you can see in the video it can save you from being gimped easily by something like Watergun or FLUDD.

 

[CountKaiser]

I just noticed something.

Luigi and G&W have the same hitstun constant.

If such is the case, why does Luigi suffer less stun than G&W in Magus' examples?

 

[Deleted member]

maybe they don't have the same hitstuin constants?

 

[Plum]

I just noticed something.

Luigi and G&W have the same hitstun constant.

If such is the case, why does Luigi suffer less stun than G&W in Magus' examples?

Wouldn't G&W have a higher launch speed from attacks because of his weight?

Given the formula, that would mean G&W's constant is being divided into a larger number. Which would equal more frames of lag. That's my guess, but don't take my word on it

 

[CountKaiser]

Oh yeah...forgot about that.

How is launch speed determined, then?

 

[boss8]

i just press the button fast....its simple cause i've played mario party so many times.....lol

but um

brawl plus luigi is fun all spacies can be dthrow to either up-b or forward smashed XD....

also luigi combos like its nothing.....overall i think luigi is high tier.....if not (the top of mid)

another killer is jab>dtilt>Fsmash..lol

i'll have some more brawl plus vids...

 

[CountKaiser]

lol at Mario party

Just go play that for about a year, guys, and you'll be like Boss. XD

 

[boss8]

lol plenty of button mashing games....

i actually flex.....and vibrate my hand......so that all the vibration goes into the B button while i use my other hand to control where i go in the air....

 

[Cytrs]

my brother does that too...

 

[leafgreen386]

Oh yeah...forgot about that.

How is launch speed determined, then?

L = g*d*p*w + 30*b + A

L is launch speed seen on the end of game results screen, g is the growth of the move, d is the damage the move deals, p is the percent the target is at after the hit, w is the target's weight (or launch resistance, really), b is the base of the move, and A has something to do with a combination of the angle the move launches at and the character's fall speed acceleration (moves that launch downward have a negative A value).

The A value unfortunately has not been very carefully looked into. It's only applied to moves that send into the tumble, which creates a sort of "hole" in a graph of the launch speed of a move as it moves from a non-tumble percent to a tumble percent. You can find out the launch speed a move tumbles by dividing 1020 by the hitstun multiplier constant (in brawl+, this is .4865, whereas it was .40 in vbrawl). In vbrawl, the tumble line was drawn at 2550, but in brawl+, it is 2097. Most moves tend to have an A of around 100 against mario (when an attack is used against characters with greater fall speed acceleration the A value is larger, and against those with less fall speed acceleration it is smaller). Moves that send straight up or close to it (such as nesss's uthrow, luigi's upB, or jiggs' old rest) have around a 160 or so A value against mario. Admittedly, when I perform calculations to determine a move's launch speed at an arbitrary percent, I take a guess at about what the A value will be based on its angle, so while my calculations may be very close to correct most of the time, they are frequently off by a small amount due to insufficient data, and thus usually require a little fine-tuning after testing.

 

[Kiyuzoh]

i just press the button fast....its simple cause i've played mario party so many times.....lol

I agree completely. Just play Mario Party for a while and you'll be spamming like a pro.
(I've been playing Mario Party since the first game was released on the N64, and now I can spam faster than a modded controller in most shooter games. Obviously, this helps my Luigi game a lot)

 

[tsunami70875]

you know, everyone says that fox is gong to be top tier
luigi would counter fox then
dthrow -> jab -> dthrow -> jab -> ...
then at about 60%, d-throw -> jab -> shoryuken is unescapable

 

[Wander]

Bump! Luigi can't die!

 

[philbobjoe]

So is Luigi a top contender in Brawl+?

 

[Andarel]

So is Luigi a top contender in Brawl+?

I believe the answer to that is "Very much yes." At least, in my experience.

 

[GHNeko]

Luigi is hidden top tier. I know it. :V

Better than Mario, as much as it pains me to say it.

 

[tsunami70875]

Luigi should never be first.

Something feels...wrong about it

 

[onecrazycanadian]

i dunno, a running dsmash is pretty nice

 

[Veril]

Luigi is hidden top tier. I know it. :V

There, I fixed it.

 

[Kiyuzoh]

Well, I've heard in a few different locations (that I personally cannot recall) that there is a finalized throw modification code. Does this mean the end of Luigi's down-throw chaingrab? I'm concerned, because changing the down-throw around might take a lot of getting used to, with the "inescapable" down-throw > up-B and all...

 

[Magus420]

His 'chaingrab' is crap. If for some reason his d-throw were to be changed, that wouldn't be the reason.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wait. So can luigi dthrow chain up to Shoryuken kill procents or not?

 

[Magus420]

If you're playing against someone who doesn't know how to hold away on their controller then yes, otherwise no.

 

[Magus420]

Techs: Try not to miss them.

 

[Kev!]

Techs: Try not to miss them.

[IMAGES]

****in' lol'd.

Funny, I also wanted to make a gif out of a combo on a ZSS. mine was dash cancelled Dtaunt to Shoryuken.

 

[Magus420]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7904269&postcount=5844

Gogogo. Feedback plz.

I think he's so much more interesting and fun to play now

 

[PKNintendo]

This I gotta agree with. Magus made Luigi funner, by making useless moves... not so useless, and only nerfing some overpowered cheap factors about him.


Don't worry guys

The man in green stays in green.

 

[Mr.-0]

Wow. After reading this thread, Mr.L got on my top five list. Unlike some people who think that if brawl plus ever goes into tournaments than you'll see a variety of characters and people who have counterpick characters and secondaries and stuff etc., I think that instead, similair to melee but not like brawl I think that if there is a B+ tournament scene, I don't think you'll see just two characters, like in brawl, or many characters with everybody having several seconds as counterpicks, like some people say Brawl plus will be like. I think that instead, it'll be like melee. You'll see five characters alot ( Fox,Mk,Marth,Squirtle,Luigi ) And 10 other characters a little.

 

[Chell]

I've noticed that sometimes I am able to chain around 7 or 8 dtilts together just by holding down and mashing A and my opponent gets trapped by hitstun.

Does anyone know in what instances this will happen, because sometimes it works and other times it doesn't

 

[matt4300]

Wow. After reading this thread, Mr.L got on my top five list. Unlike some people who think that if brawl plus ever goes into tournaments than you'll see a variety of characters and people who have counterpick characters and secondaries and stuff etc., I think that instead, similair to melee but not like brawl I think that if there is a B+ tournament scene, I don't think you'll see just two characters, like in brawl, or many characters with everybody having several seconds as counterpicks, like some people say Brawl plus will be like. I think that instead, it'll be like melee. You'll see five characters alot ( Fox,Mk,Marth,Squirtle,Luigi ) And 10 other characters a little.

Ive been thinking the same... its like yeh Link is viable ... but why would you play a char with punishable moves and easy to gimp recovery when you could play marth or meta? Link can win... But if moneys on the line why would you be a char that has weaknesses... your gonna pick chars with unpunishable moves, little hitstun and good recoverys like luigi or kirby.

 

[Shell]

If Five characters are all we see in tourneys then we'll do something about it so long as it's due to an issue of balance and not popularity -- If everyone mains Luigi (for example) by choice, but other characters are perfectly viable, we won't touch Luigi. This hasn't been an issue so far, so I wouldn't worry about it unless it really becomes one.

Regardless, this is off topic. Continue in another general discussion thread if necessary.

 

[grim mouser]

I've noticed that sometimes I am able to chain around 7 or 8 dtilts together just by holding down and mashing A and my opponent gets trapped by hitstun.

Does anyone know in what instances this will happen, because sometimes it works and other times it doesn't

Lack of DI/SDI.

 

[g0nz02]

I've found one of my favorite ways of landing kills in weakhit falling nair -> sweetspot nair at around 120 on most characters. I'm assuming most people know this already, but for those who don't- try it.

 

[DUCKAtl]

luigi's pretty beast, its just the stuff he does after his moves and air doges are what can get you punished, he's like mario from melee on steroids, but not as nerfed up

 

[Yonder]

So I hear that now Luigi is a top tier that needs nerfing? Is this true? XD.

 

[Kev!]

So I hear that now Luigi is a top tier that needs nerfing? Is this true? XD.

From 4.1b to the 4.2 nightly build, he got like 6-8 nerfs out of 10 changes. He's still very good, just not broken anymore.

That role is left to Zelda, Kirby and a few other characters thay didn't bother to remove from OP status.

 

[Yonder]

That role is left to Zelda, Kirby and a few other characters thay didn't bother to remove from OP status.

They hopefully will nerf them too, as long as Fox, Squirtle, etc whoever people are calling broken...