Luigi in Brawl+

[onecrazycanadian]

I couldn't find a Luigi thread so delete this one if there is.

Luigi is a combo beast in brawl+ and can combo anyone to like 50-60% and his Dthrow combo's to Uair USmash or jump fire punch at higher %. I did some testing on AI with Luigi's Dthrow and found some interesting results, unfortunately i have no human subjects to confirm them on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUurb3VGAS4

Lets go Luigi 0-death on fox!

 

[Veril]

Luigi has the best combo in the game: jab cancel > d-throw > up-b

It works on all but the floatiest characters (Jiggs) at basically any %. Seriously, its **** and nearly inescapable. I'm amazed people haven't talked about this at all since its so good.

Luigi has more reliable setups for KOs than anyone else in B+, I actually think he's the best character at this moment.

 

[Rashid]

Too bad his jab to upB doesn't work anymore. )=

 

[Plum]

Luigi has the best combo in the game: jab cancel > d-throw > up-b

It works on all but the floatiest characters (Jiggs) at basically any %. Seriously, its **** and nearly inescapable. I'm amazed people haven't talked about this at all since its so good.

Luigi has more reliable setups for KOs than anyone else in B+, I actually think he's the best character at this moment.

Luigi is a MONSTER at this point.

Every time I see somebody post a general top 8 kind of thing, its always characters like Marth, Fox, Squirtle, Lucario, Wario etc and nobody ever thinks about Luigi, but he is so freaking good.

His Nair is just insane. Such a good combo breaker, and it can also be a kill move at high percents and he can combo out of Nair after breaking your combo to totally turn things against you. The way Brawl handles hitstun basically makes Luigi suffer such little hitstun at early percents and he can just Nair his way out of any trouble.

And his combo game is insane too. A lot of kill setups and really early kills with Up B and Fsmash. He can pile on damage so quickly and his Dthrow combos at such high percents and chaingrabs some characters with it. His Dtilt sets up for things at even higher percents then Dthrow so you can never escape his combo game.

Watching Boss play Luigi is just scary o_O

 

[Arkaether]

Luigi is indeed awesome, but he slides like three thousand miles every time he moves.

I think that's the main reason he's not very popular.

 

[Plum]

Luigi is indeed awesome, but he slides like three thousand miles every time he moves.

I think that's the main reason he's not very popular.

Yeah, his physics are so weird compared to everyone else in the game.

On the bright side, he doesn't really have to worry about being punished for shielding because he just slides too far away

 

[GHNeko]

luigi's physics AND priority is weird. He has some of the best priority moves in the game, but some of the most mediocre priority moves.

 

[onecrazycanadian]

dthrow SH upB can work on everyone and depending on weight can kill at like 80% and up, and it only takes like one grab or jab to combo someone to 80%

 

[GHNeko]

That's probably going to change once we can edit throws.

 

[onecrazycanadian]

he has some wicked crawl dashing from Vbrawl and he can slide forward or backward and do any move

 

[GHNeko]

P-WDing. Psuedo Wavedashing. Dash > DC > Crawl Backwards.

IIRC, Shiek and Luigi can seriously use P-WD as a great form of mindgame.

 

[CloneHat]

P-WDing. Psuedo Wavedashing. Dash > DC > Crawl Backwards.

IIRC, Shiek and Luigi can seriously use P-WD as a great form of mindgame.

Aww man, somebody found it before I posted it.

Is it possible to do it when running left? I've tried it, but characters don't slide as much as when they go right. Maybe it's just me.

 

[GHNeko]

Aww man, somebody found it before I posted it.

Is it possible to do it when running left? I've tried it, but characters don't slide as much as when they go right. Maybe it's just me.

It's just you. : p

 

[Magus420]

Luigi is usually better off using some combination of dash dancing, dash canceling, and pivoting. Luigi's covers a lot of distance, but isn't as fast and doesn't crawl as low as Sheik's.

And yes, something about the crawl animation makes it not work/far less effective when facing left.

 

[GHNeko]

And yes, something about the crawl animation makes it not work/far less effective when facing left.

...Explain.

 

[Magus420]

...Explain.

...Sakurai.

I really have no reasonable explanation, lol. The speed simply doesn't transfer into the crawl the same way when facing left as facing right for whatever reason.

 

[GHNeko]

...So basically Crawls = Falcon Dtaunt?

or do you mean, Crawl Backwards instead of Crawl Left/Right

 

[Magus420]

I mean:

1) Running/walking to the Left while facing Left (dash cancel for run)
2) Crawling to the Right while facing Left

...doesn't transfer nearly as much of that speed into the crawl as (the speed up of the crawl animation is what causes a crawldash):

1) Running/walking to the Right while facing Right (dash cancel for run)
2) Crawling to the Left while facing Right

even when the inputs are mirrored exactly.


Unless this was fixed of course =P

 

[GHNeko]

Wait wut. What's the difference in speed, because I'm doing this now with Weegee, and I cant see a difference.

 

[Magus420]

Perhaps something fixed it? Instead of releasing the crawl into the slide, hold the crawl on both and compare the 2 animations and how quickly his legs move at the start of the crawl. If they both begin extremely fast and then slow down to normal speed the exact same way then I guess it works equally in both directions now.

 

[GHNeko]

I think I'm misunderstanding you.

Facing right.

Crawling Left is slower than Crawling Right.

And vise-versa

But Crawling Left when facing right, produces the same speed as Crawling right when facing left.

 

[Magus420]

I think I'm misunderstanding you.

Facing right.

Crawling Left is slower than Crawling Right.

And vise-versa

But Crawling Left when facing right, produces the same speed as Crawling right when facing left.

Yeah, definitely misunderstanding


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL4DFxJLO5M#t=0m20s

This and all of the other ones in the vid are right-facing crawldashes (as it didn't work at all the other way around).

To perform these right-facing crawldashes it's:

1) Move Right while facing Right
2) Crawl to the Left while still facing Right (crawl backwards). The movement forward is transferred into the backwards crawl and the drastically sped up start of the crawl animation causes you to slide (backwards) once released.


Now if you were to try left-facing crawldashes it'd go like this:

1) Move Left while facing Left
2) Crawl to the Right while still facing Left (crawl backwards). The movement forward is not/barely transferred into the backwards crawl and so you get little to no slide out of the not/barely sped up crawl once the crawl is released.


The normal speed of the crawls aren't different. The left-facing crawl just doesn't get the same speed boost like the right-facing one gets when crawling backwards to do the crawldash.

 

[GHNeko]

Ohhhh. I see what you're saying.


...Wow that's stupid.

Bringing it up with BR.

 

[Veril]

Too bad his jab to upB doesn't work anymore. )=

Which doesn't matter since jab canceled grab works and d-throw leads to up-b on a large portion of the cast.

dthrow SH upB can work on everyone and depending on weight can kill at like 80% and up, and it only takes like one grab or jab to combo someone to 80%

Corection: d-throw up-b does not combo all characters. It doesn't work on Jiggs for example. it does work on just about everyone though, I know it works on all of the 4 I normally test first: MK, Marth, Falcon, and Sheik. It ALWAYS works on Falcon and is basically inescabable.

I stand by my original statement: this is hands down the best 2-move combo in B+. It is the sole reason I am posting in this thread. Unlike rest, it cannot be punished as long as it hits. Also unlike rest combos, its impossible to DI out of (from what I've seen).

 

[onecrazycanadian]

Some characters can get out of Dthrow grounded upB, thats why I usually short hop it, if it doesnt kill at least it does like 25% damage

 

[Veril]

Some characters can get out of Dthrow grounded upB, thats why I usually short hop it, if it doesnt kill at least it does like 25% damage

Most characters can get out of the grounded up-b combo. There is no reason not to SH it. d-throw to SH up-b can only be escaped by super-floaties like jiggs, luigi, etc. It is literally inescapable for falcon.

The combo is ludicrously easy to pull off with practice. I don't even want to put up the KO ranges for this combo because of how BS it is.

It cannot be punished on hit, and if you miss its your own d*** fault cause there's no reason to miss this combo.


Here's the summary for this combo:
d-throw to SH up-b

-deals 31%, KOs very early
-very easy to pull off
-very easy to set up via jab-canceling
-works on most characters over a wide % range
-even somewhat FFers can be KOed easily with this combo.
-nearly, if not completely inescapable unless there's a platform to tech on.
-cannot be punished on hit (unlike rest combos)

This is one of the few things that I immediately felt needed to be brought to everyone's attention. Its insanely good and probably should be fixed. If anyone involved in the coding or BR or whatever would like to see the % range for this monster, I'll be getting it for the whole cast.

Don't get grabbed by Luigi

 

[Kev!]

[stuff]

Sheik, to name only one example, needs WAY more fixing than Luigi, in Brawl+...

 

[GHNeko]

Sheik, to name only one example, needs WAY more fixing than Luigi, in Brawl+...

LOLWUT. What set have YOU been playing?

 

[Kev!]

LOLWUT. What set have YOU been playing?

Most recent one everytime it's available, also with the occasional goofing off with a nightly build.

 

[Nybb]

They nerfed his aerial up-B a while ago. Dthrow > up-B is still really good, but not as good as it was. Most people in this thread probably already knew this, but just in case anybody is using an older codeset...don't worry, it got toned down at least a little bit.

But yeah, I <3 Luigi+ ... n-air > jab > grab > dthrow > COMBOS

When playing Luigi, always remember: to nair is human

 

[Dai Tian]

Not that I want to echo earlier statements but Luigi is a **** rapist in this game.

At early percents he is a living combo breaker. Sending him into the air? A nair later and he's in prime position to do something back to you. Got a ground game? He can use his cyclone to clash with so many attacks to reset the situation back to normal. And then on top of that he has kill power left and right, with plenty of ways to put some hurt on you. At early percents if you don't tech/DI right he can chain a few up-smashes on you for 30 or so damage. His aerials just flow together so **** well too...

I don't think I've ever had to look at Luigi this seriously before, haha.

 

[xDD-Master]

Beastly combos and beastly KO-Potential. Otherwise he breaks out of any Combo because of his floatiness and Nair. If you dont spam like hell, you will lose (If the Luigi knows what to do).

I play a very good Weegee often and the problem is: If I go to, he will dodge and combo or shield & grab me at low %. At higher % (This means 50+ -.-) he just Jab Cancel to Up-B and stuff like that... So the whole thing is, Luigi has just to hit you two or three times (With Combo Follow Up) and you are dead. Well, Spam is thing he cant handle that good, cause he always slides away when he shields.

Anyway I think Snake counters him, because of his Range and Nades (To pretect him a little bit from getting comboed).

To mention: In Germany we are playing 4.0 beta as standard, not the nightly builds.

So: In Brawl+ 4.0 -> Luigi is the best Character. (my 2 cents)

 

[Veril]

They nerfed his aerial up-B a while ago. Dthrow > up-B is still really good, but not as good as it was. Most people in this thread probably already knew this, but just in case anybody is using an older codeset...don't worry, it got toned down at least a little bit.

I use the most recent nightly builds. They reduced the knockback growth. Everything I wrote about the combo already took that into account.

 

[Plum]

I use the most recent nightly builds. They reduced the knockback growth. Everything I wrote about the combo already took that into account.

Veril is definitely right on this one

Even though it isn't as powerful Luigi's Dthrow sets up for the Up B at high enough percents where he can still easily get the kill, rather at a higher percent now.

Basically if you can't just clearly outrange Luigi it will be a tough as hell match. He can cover any two areas immediately around him in one shorthop and everything has the potential to lead into more stuff at low to mid percents. SH Fair to Bair, Fair to Uair, Fair to Dair, Bair to Uair, Dair to Uair, anything into a Nair, and etc... so good. Throw out one aerial outside the opponents range to bait a reaction and come in with the second on the way down to punish and start ****.

And his recovery can go SO far. It's predictable, but the distance he gets is amazing. I still can't button mash the Cyclone fast enough outside a double jump to get that insane lift, but even without that he still has a good recovery. Sweetspotting the ledge can be a pain because he has to go so low to do it with his Up B though, which again plays into the fact that his recovery is predictable and easy to gimp when you know what you are doing.

 

[CloneHat]

Luigi is already monstrous, and with the IC-esque chaingrab and Up B combo, he's kind of broken. He really doesn't need the grab combos.

 

[onecrazycanadian]

grab combo's are important but this semi CG doesnt need to be in, as for the characters who can escape dthrow upB, just follow with Uair and start comboing again, or a sweatspot Nair will kill at higher %

 

[Veril]

Broken like whoa... more than I initially thought

OK, I made a mistake. I thought that floaty characters were resistant to this, I was wrong. It actually seems that a select VERY few are resistant or immune to it. Ganon is immune and it barely works on Bowser. It works on Jiggs just fine... too fine.

On the other hand, against the rest of the cast I've tested so far it works at ANY REASONABLE %. Ie, around 0 to 150+ on almost the entire cast (the highest % I feel needs to be tested).

This is a practically universal, easy to setup and execute, nearly if not completely impossible to escape, 26-31% damage, TRUE COMBO that KOs very very early within its massive % range.

So yes, if Luigi gets a grab, and you aren't playing Ganon, and you're above like 75%, you're completely f***ed and there's nothing you can do about it. If you aren't at that %, you're going to get comboed there pretty fast.

I've tested well over a hundred different combos, some of which are pretty ****. No other combo in the game is even close to this good, not rest, not the knee, not any of Marth's craziness, nothing. Its the best in the game by a large margin. If it doesn't get fixed in some way I'm just gonna pick up that combo as a second.

 

[Arkaether]

Eh? Did you DI right? I usually can't kill my friends with dthrow>upb with luigi until 120% or so.

 

[boo-diddly]

I smell a nerf. Very, very soon.

 

[GHNeko]

Hey. It might be deserved. Who knows.