Louie's Notes-Olimar Q&A Thread!!

[Slain Avenger]

Okay, another question. When a multiple hitbox move that locks you in (say PK fire). How do you get out of it the fastest? I know this is not really pertaining to Oli, but maybe he has some special input. What should I be inputting? Standard control stick DI or some smash DI? <.< this is perplexing me.

 

[Asa]

just DI with the control stick and you'll be

(you DI pk fire up btw)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

By DI he means SDI (Smash Directional Influence). You want to mash the control stick over and over in the direction you want to go.

 

[PSI.kick]

ifyou mash the c-stick as well will you get out even faster .-.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Yeah that too

 

[Slain Avenger]

Woo, finally got a straight answer... feel like bookmarking this. Thanks a lot guys.

 

[360°]

Adv Beginner Question: How can i approach and rack up dmg on Olimar?

Me and my brother just got into brawl again after a long time. we have no mains as of now, and just keep playing chars out of randomness, having some favourites of course.
a character that makes me wanna throw up is Captain Olimar, he somehow can rack up so much dmg on me and i have no chance of approaching him, mainly because of the throwing of pikmin's.
in the tier list i read that pkachu, the ice climebrs and luigi have an advantage over Olimar, as well as the tremendous Metaknight
I would like to have some basic guidelines on how to approach this matchup, from the point of view of either Metaknight, Marth, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Falco, Shiek.
also what is a good way of finishing him off?
we are adv beginners, as we lack the advanced techniques such as gimping, DI, doing L-Cancels anytime we like or other stuff i heard off, but other than that we are solid smashers, playing melee on and off since 2003 and i got ssb for N64 in the early 2000 when it came out ,
minus the techniques.
i probably could do the techniques after some months, but i never erally looked them up in detail.

 

[Sky Pirate]

This probably would have been better in the Q&A thread.

Ice Climbers- Desynced Blizzard
Metaknight - Tornado
Falco - Jab
Pikachu - It's actually in our favor.
Luigi- Nair, Fireball (?)

L-canceling isn't in Brawl, gimping is how you should be trying to kill Oli, and the life story wasn't really necessary. ^^;
You should also probably commit to learning one or two characters soon if you plan on playing competitively.

 

[360°]

haha yeah i was unsure wher to post this in, i know that the Q&A Threads are great for quick questions, but couldn't find them
the "life story" was more so that people don't use too many terms i'm not too familiar with, your post was good, i just don't understand how to perform "gimping" and how to desync an IC blizzard. is that placing nana so that the blizzard starts a bit later or to hit both sides?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Moved to Q&A thread.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Gimping is basically just making sure your opponent can't make it back on the stage.
When fighting Olimar, just force him to exhaust his second jump offstage and grab the ledge. His tether can't latch on to the ledge when someone's on it, so he'll be forced to either make it back on with the little hop from his UpB or he'll fall to his death.

I'm not really too sure about how to use the ICs, so I only really know one method to desync them.
Tap back, then immediately tap forward and B (one ice block should come out instead of two), quickly press jump and Down+B (the CPU climber will jump and perform a blizzard), then repeat the previous step after one climber has performed their blizzard. You can substitute Blizzard for the ice block in the first step, but I have an easier time using the ice block.

 

[PSI.kick]

go to the ice climber thread for specifics on playing that character. they probably know more about playing as ice climbers against olimar than we do, seeing as how they're the ones who main the character and not us. you'll also learn a lot more on how to play well with that character.
if you want to play olimar () then get hilt to give you our guide, which we took it down due to being quite outdated, but it does have a lot of very useful techniques and strategies. if you have more questions please don't hesitate to ask here

also check out the social thread.

(don't pick ice climbers... they're very homo)
then again... most olimains are homo... but that's not the point here.

+1

 

[DtJ Hilt]

If you want info and stuff, here's our guide:

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=162

 

[Shintarru]

Any advice against a lucario?

 

[Dnyce]

Any advice against a lucario?

Throw pikmin

 

[Slain Avenger]

Can anyone give me a quick run down of the snake MU?

I'm having a hard time with it and as of now what I try to do is spam as many pikmin as possible until he rushes, in which I try to shield grab or forward smash.

<.< This strategy... reminds me of something.

 

[Dnyce]

Can anyone give me a quick run down of the snake MU?

I'm having a hard time with it and as of now what I try to do is spam as many pikmin as possible until he rushes, in which I try to shield grab or forward smash.

<.< This strategy... reminds me of something.

The strategy isn't flawed. Perhaps you could be a little more specific on what snake does?

There's a few things that might help. Don't SH pikmin toss when you're within Snake's dash attack or dacus, stay grounded when tossing pikmin.

When Snake pulls a grenade, he is committed to doing something with it. Either when you hear or see Snake pull a grenade, know that you can do ANYTHING YOUR WANT. A great option is throwing tons of pikmin (from the ground) so that he gets nervous and does something immediately with the grenade (instead of cook it for a bit).

You shouldn't be trying to shield grab Snake very much. Standing grab, when used multiple times, is effective and making Snake pick an option you favor (if predicted), though not necessarily used to get an actual grab. You can do a combination of pivot grabs and fsmash if you're trying to build some space between you and Snake.

If you commit to an option prematurely, you can/will get punished hard for it. Though you kind of need to get a more general feel yourself for what that means through practice.

If pikmin-toss doesn't block an oncoming grenade, you should try to instant-throw it back at Snake - tl;dr practice instant throwing.

If you want to win this match-up (and a lot of others) using this method... develop your reaction time. The whole point it to literally wait until your opponent commits to an option first and then punish them with an appropriate counter. It's very effective, though I won't say whether or not it's the best - just the metagame (imo).

 

[Slain Avenger]

As far as grenades go, I'd say that's my biggest problem. I have a hang on the instant throwing thing but a lot of times what'll happen is that a grenade goes through my pikmin and ends up exploding on top of me, getting me in the air and in a bad position.

What's my best resource in this type of situation? I've considered just running away from oncoming grenades but that depends on level.

 

[Asa]

power shield grenades so they pop up

 

[Jane]

dont try to catch his grenades. In general ignore them just make sure youre not in range of one thats on the ground. Just try to block them via toss

 

[Dnyce]

As far as grenades go, I'd say that's my biggest problem. I have a hang on the instant throwing thing but a lot of times what'll happen is that a grenade goes through my pikmin and ends up exploding on top of me, getting me in the air and in a bad position.

What's my best resource in this type of situation? I've considered just running away from oncoming grenades but that depends on level.

If you're instant throwing while keeping track of when he pulls grenades, getting hit by the explosions shouldn't be happening very often. Pay attention to the grenade after your throw it, normally I retreat while doing the instant throw (to give me more distance and time to react to what happens). If he shield drops the grenade you threw at him, aerial dodge/shield/ anything to avoid the explosion really.

The only time he can shield drop a grenade that will hit you regardless of instant throwing is when he's at long distance, and it's only the first one... so pay special attention to the first grenade he has out.


Think of it this way though: Snake's first reaction is to get grenades onto the field, ours is to throw pikmin. When we do our job effectively/correctly, Snake realizes that he can't win a camp battle and will have to take an aggressive action (ie dash attack, dacus, ftilt, etc) to gain the advantage. To beat Snake's aggressive tactics we (generally) use fsmash and grabs. When we get into an fsmash/grab habbit, Snake can now out camp us again. You see the circle?

Key factor in the match-up is when you SH pikmin toss. While we use pikmin toss to bait an aggressive response from Snake, Snake can use his grenades in a manor to try and get us to SH pikmin toss at an unsafe range. When Oli is in the air he is vulnerable, and being able to bait a time when we SH pikmin toss is a great way to take advantage of getting olimar in the air for free.
EDIT: a great bait is to SH pikmin toss in this range when snake has a grenade in his hand and watch. Some Snakes will instinctively 504bategatewaytheorycraft rush in while you're just waiting for the "punish".


Also, the lob on grenades doesn't hit grounded Olimar very often. Snake usually needs a ground height difference (like at the far left/right stage of Yoshi's) to hit Olimar on the ground. Staying grounded helps you avoid a LOT of grenades being thrown at you.

dont try to catch his grenades. In general ignore them just make sure youre not in range of one thats on the ground. Just try to block them via toss

What's wrong with catching grenades? I guess instant throwing technically isn't catching them, haha.

 

[Jane]

i mean theres nothing horribly abysmal about it. im sure doing it everyone one in a while cant hurt, but, its just better to be grounded, and tossing pikmin instead of jumping, essentially putting yourself in harms way.

 

[Dnyce]

I've just noticed that when you instant throw a grenade back at snake, it's kind of like a hot potato type thing. Now he's in the situation to lose stage control, and the grenade has been out too long to effectively instant throw it back (unless he literally just pulled it and quarterback tossed it at you). Most Snakes usually will shield drop so that the nade conveniently lands between you and him at a distance that either puts him at harm or neither of you at harm. That gives way to this convenient little block from snake being able to get in since now there's this game changing obstacle between you and him that he needs to wait for.

 

[Slain Avenger]

So basically your goal will be to make snake approach by blocking out his camp game almost entirely. Maybe mind game him with a grenade or too? To me the most interesting point in all this is how you mention standing grabs as a set up/spacing tool instead of a punish to the dacus and or any approach.

 

[Dnyce]

So basically your goal will be to make snake approach by blocking out his camp game almost entirely. Maybe mind game him with a grenade or too? To me the most interesting point in all this is how you mention standing grabs as a set up/spacing tool instead of a punish to the dacus and or any approach.

Well yeah... standing grab kinda gets you ***** due to lack of grab armor. Pivot grab or a perfectly spaced grab usually alleviates the issue. Fsmash is an amazing go-to punish when you think Snake is going to approach.

Guess it also helps to mention jab clanks with his ftilt, and they both come out on the same frame. So unless snake jabs when his ftilt (which is starting to become more common, but not quite part of the metagame) you can usually get away with mashing A when you're in danger up close (ie when you get dthrow / snake breaks through your camp).

 

[Denti]

I'm having a really hard time dealing with mk down tilt spacing. advice? It seams to beat everything we have when done right. I've tried short hop fair but they learn and just shield grab. halp?

 

[Dnyce]

I'm having a really hard time dealing with mk down tilt spacing. advice? It seams to beat everything we have when done right. I've tried short hop fair but they learn and just shield grab. halp?

Space your fair better so you don't get shield grabbed?
You can boost pivot grab, which alleviates grab armor issues or run away and throw pikmin if you still have stage left to retreat.

Depends on how mk is using it I guess, I mean you could try a dair too I guess.

 

[Denti]

I figured out how to beat it. it takes an expertly spaced f smash with a yellow red or blue. For purples you can space a short hop side b, it'll either hit them or they'll shield it, either way it's an opening to advance on them. If you have a white it's best to pivot grab so you can stay defensive and move to your next pikmin. options are amazing


btw i'm convinced castle siege isn't that good for olimar vs mk anymore. once mk gets the lead it's easy as hell for mk to stall. what are other good counterpicks against mk? I like ps1 and yi, are those good? I need at least 1 or 2 more.

 

[Dnyce]

My favorite has been yoshi's island recently as well. I could see PS1

 

[Rockstar]

Check out this tournament match of Kansas's Olimar. Check it out & enjoy. Fino aka Dnyce (Olimar) vs Lux (Ice Climbers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVNvUA3kwfI

 

[Jane]

...in the Q&A thread? really?

 

[Jiom]

My favorite cp with olimar is pictochat, my luck has been amazing on it and olimar can pivot grab people trying to go for a grab to throw him into hazards, the only part of the stage bad for olimar is the wind transformation, if they ban that I usually just go to delfino fd or sv

 

[Turazrok]

I used to take MK to halberd but now I'm reluctant to take anyone to halberd.

I've died too many times to the dread ship.

 

[Jane]

Yeah ive had reoccurring problems on halberd as well. And i dont like the way the main part is set up (the "floor")

Its cool tho cuz people ban that against me haha. So i just take em to delfino/castle/yoshis/ps1

 

[Jiom]

is it ever good to air dodge against marth?

 

[ScAtt77]

is it ever good to air dodge against marth?

When he's on the ground, probably not. In the air his bair and uair have some cooldown on them, so you may be able to airdodge then.



What is a good stage to cp against Falco or PT?

 

[Frio]

When he's on the ground, probably not. In the air his bair and uair have some cooldown on them, so you may be able to airdodge then.



What is a good stage to cp against Falco and PT?

Yoshi's Island melee is a good CP against falco. The ground there screws up his Side B and if you get him on the top platform you can do some dmg. Also you can camp the top platform to avoid the CG -> Spike if that makes you nervous.

 

[Jiom]

When he's on the ground, probably not. In the air his bair and uair have some cooldown on them, so you may be able to airdodge then.



What is a good stage to cp against Falco or PT?

fair fair fair beats airdodge in the air and if he lands with uair its grab or something :|

i like to cp lylat against falco, screws with his side b, idk about PT though, generally just go with your most comfortable stage though

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Counterpick falco to Delfino. It's the best stage to take him to. It's a great stage for Olimar and a bad stage for Falco for the same reasons that we're good on it.

 

[clowsui]

what this man said

delfino sux for falco, way more than lylat cruise at least

lylat is actually a pretty good stage for falco