List of anti-ledge camping moves:

[TheStig]

down taunt works

 

[B!squick]

Is that why there is only 1 top8 finish on the last tournament report?

... What's your point? Just because it's the only reported one, doesn't mean Bowser isn't represented anywhere else in the world in any major tourny. And even if it's just one top 8, so what? It still totally debunks your comment.

10morefacepalms

I realise Sliq doesn't seem to get out much anymore, but search YouTube for MrEh. He seems to be a regular and he only plays Bowser. Doesn't even matter if it's DeDeDe on Green Hills.

 

[Rashid]

Can't Ness use PK Fire? It should work both on ground (it goes down slowly) and in the air (goes down diagonally). He can also Yo-yo stage spike.

Just felt like sharing that.

And PK Flash can reach them, but it's slow, so it might not be the best option out there.

 

[manhunter098]

No more props for Lucario? This is blasphemy. Lucario has some of the best anti-ledge camping options in the game.

His f-smash, while slow reaches below the edge and can be devastating to anyone ledge camping and is great at discouraging opponents from ledge camping, though not incredibly effective its so powerful that the occasional hit makes it worth using.

His d-tilt also reaches under the edge and is very fast, allowing it to be smammed near the ledge and often being able to nick an opponent that is ledge camping.

A charged aura sphere is an effective tool against the ledge camping games of several characters, though less effective against those with good reflectors like Pit.

And of course you already mentioned d-air, which is only decent, though quite effective if you can predict when they will drop.

 

[LoyalSoldier]

... What's your point? Just because it's the only reported one, doesn't mean Bowser isn't represented anywhere else in the world in any major tourny. And even if it's just one top 8, so what? It still totally debunks your comment.

1 Top 8 is the worst out of any character......

10morefacepalms

I realise Sliq doesn't seem to get out much anymore, but search YouTube for MrEh. He seems to be a regular and he only plays Bowser. Doesn't even matter if it's DeDeDe on Green Hills.

You can find a main for any character, it doesn't mean it is a good choice of characters

 

[The Sauce Boss]

--Lots of stuff--

You don't see videos of good MKs ledgestalling against Link because it's not necessary - even on the stage the Link boards decided the matchup was 20-80, IIRC. In casual play I have had the dubious honor of seeing a ledgestalling MK, and with the slow traveling speed of Link's projectiles, no amount of trying to fake out MK's timing would help - he just watched the projectiles and regrabbed in between. For reference, that player had just picked up MK a half week ago.

The Link onstage match up is totally irrelevant to this thread. Everything else you say is arguable, but you say it like it is proven fact. It is not. It is your opinion.

I don't really have time to pick at your post and argue, so I am ending the back and forth here. This is the wrong thread for this. Take it to the ban poll.

----------------------------

Reading over other posts now. Will update and stuff soon.

 

[darkNES386]

Sonic can run right off the stage and land a bair>stage spike. It's much more effective than the spring drop because Sonic can follow it up easier.

 

[Judge Judy]

I've been trying out the cape on planking opponents and it works well except it doesn't really do anything while your opponent is just hanging on the ledge besides dmg; the cape's hitbox is large and disjointed enough where you can hit under the ledge safely with the tip of the cape, as in you would be on-stage using the cape and able to hit underneath the ledge with the cape.

PS: You might get a lucky cape teleport too.

 

[Veggi]

Judge, have you tried out doing the cape ledge stall? I know there's less time allowed for reflecting people than projectiles, but there's a large amount of time that Mario is either reflecting or invincible.

 

[Judge Judy]

Judge, have you tried out doing the cape ledge stall? I know there's less time allowed for reflecting people than projectiles, but there's a large amount of time that Mario is either reflecting or invincible.

Yah, I mainly use it for timing mix-ups though since there are more frames when Mario is vulnerable than with Mario's Up B ledge stall; it's good and it works for the most part, but I wouldn't rely on it if you're planking. The cape ledge stall works best for edgeguarding, but like I said, I also use it for mix-ups when planking.

 

[Scinn]

if lucario's aura sphere is big enough you can shoot it at them it does work i've killed ALOT of ledge campers with it.

 

[Judge Judy]

Ah, that reminds me, cape ledge stalling makes nearly all projectile-based anti-ledge camping moves useless.

 

[Veggi]

Yah, I mainly use it for timing mix-ups though since there are more frames when Mario is vulnerable than with Mario's Up B ledge stall; it's good and it works for the most part, but I wouldn't rely on it if you're planking. The cape ledge stall works best for edgeguarding, but like I said, I also use it for mix-ups when planking.

I was talking about using it for anti-planking. Might be a bit too risky of a stage spike though.

 

[Judge Judy]

I was talking about using it for anti-planking. Might be a bit too risky of a stage spike though.

Maybe I don't understand, but how would you use a cape ledge stall to prevent planking if your opponent is already on the ledge? Anyway, I already posted how the cape can be used for anti-planking and even added a little tidbit for how cape stalling can be used to plank and edgeguard.

 

[Tyr_03]

Lucas can full hop Dair near the ledge and it's nearly impossible to ledgecamp against. Cept like Ike in which case you use PK Thunder.

 

[darkNES386]

You don't need a question mark. It's pretty simple. Sonic runs off the stage and executes a bair stage spike. Works all the time, ledge campers are begging for it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6EUlwKGoOU&feature=related

 

[Falconv1.0]

Jaydeth, where are you getting this info that Bowser goes even with MK? And yes, 1 top 8 is effing ludicrous. You cant go even with MK and only have 1 top 8, you just ****ing cant. And I'm pretty sure Sliq stated that the match up wasn't bad, not even. Maybe I misread that/he changed opinions, but you catch my drift.

It would like me saying Kirby can go even with Snake but isn't higher than everything than MK. And for the love of god dont drop names. Nobody cares, we really dont. How about I go scream Gimpyfish every time someone says melee Bowser was garbage. Yeah, that will go swimmingly, I'm sure of it.

 

[Dantarion]

You don't need a question mark. It's pretty simple. Sonic runs off the stage and executes a bair stage spike. Works all the time, ledge campers are begging for it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6EUlwKGoOU&feature=related

Youre anti-camping move is to RUN OFF THE STAGE AND USE BACK AIR?

Any character can do that. Sure, Sonic is fast, but the idea of a true anti-camping move is that you don't put yourself in a horrible position trying to get someone off the edge.

If you go for the bair stage spike and miss, all of a sudden you are off the stage, and your opponent is on the stage, and you have to double jump and possibly up+b to get back.

I thought this thread was about SAFE anti-ledge moves with minimal chance of being hit or punished

 

[B!squick]

Jaydeth, where are you getting this info that Bowser goes even with MK?

Speaking on behalf of this Jaydeth person (notice I have a capital "D" in my name), he got his information from, of all places, the Brawl Bowser Character Board. Who'd have thought, right? He asked good players he repects and admires about it and the match up thread has it listed as only a 10 point/percent/whatever margin.

And yes, 1 top 8 is effing ludicrous. You cant go even with MK and only have 1 top 8, you just ****ing cant.

Bowser obviously does.

And I'm pretty sure Sliq stated that the match up wasn't bad, not even. Maybe I misread that/he changed opinions, but you catch my drift.

It's not bad and it's not even... so he said it was good?

It would like me saying Kirby can go even with Snake but isn't higher than everything than MK.

... Okay?

And for the love of god dont drop names. Nobody cares, we really dont. How about I go scream Gimpyfish every time someone says melee Bowser was garbage. Yeah, that will go swimmingly, I'm sure of it.

Okay, let's look at it again, from the top.

He said:

but honestly who is really going to be playing Bowser at a major tournament?

I replied:

Sliq, MrEh, and whoever else that plays Bowser in tournys would like a word with you.

Who's Mew2King dropping NinjaLink names? Seibrik He Azen asked Chillin a G-Regulate rhetorical Chudat question Weruop implying RoyR that Lain no DieSuperFly one Snakeee plays Lobos Bowser Slikvik competitively. Boss I Candy provided Kadaj the Plank names Ally of t1mmy people t0mmy who Jem did. Santi Simple Ultimate Razer as Dojo that.

 

[Dantarion]

Me looks at his sig....

In rock paper scissors you can rock cancel.

But seriously, some character cannot punish hanging on the edge.
The edge in melee is a very dangerous place to be.
In brawl, the ledge is an extremely SAFE place to be.

 

[darkNES386]

Youre anti-camping move is to RUN OFF THE STAGE AND USE BACK AIR?

Any character can do that. Sure, Sonic is fast, but the idea of a true anti-camping move is that you don't put yourself in a horrible position trying to get someone off the edge.

If you go for the bair stage spike and miss, all of a sudden you are off the stage, and your opponent is on the stage, and you have to double jump and possibly up+b to get back.

I thought this thread was about SAFE anti-ledge moves with minimal chance of being hit or punished

You realize you're talking about Sonic here right? One of the safest characters you can chase offstage with. His vertical recovery makes it virtually impossible to gimp any Sonic with enough common sense to use the invincible frames on his spring properly. For a character without a projectile... you tell me what options Sonic has then?

Sonic losing a stock from the bottom of a stage is like the biggest taboo ever.

 

[Dantarion]

Ledgecamping is mostly to stall the match. If you have to run off the stage to stop the ledgestalling, and put yourself in a inferior situation to get someone off the edge, then you don't really have a good way of stoping it.

I am not saying that Sonic is gonna get gimped. I am saying that running off the stage in any way to try to stop someone from ledge camping defeats the purpose of trying to get them to stop, as you are at a disadvantage if you miss.

 

[_Kadaj_]

although it is used for stalling, it can also be used to think of your next move.

which is why i think the ledge grab rule is somewhat of a good start to try and prevent it

 

[Corrupted]

Ness's pk fire to dair is ****.

 

[XienZo]

Ledgecamping is mostly to stall the match. If you have to run off the stage to stop the ledgestalling, and put yourself in a inferior situation to get someone off the edge, then you don't really have a good way of stoping it.

I am not saying that Sonic is gonna get gimped. I am saying that running off the stage in any way to try to stop someone from ledge camping defeats the purpose of trying to get them to stop, as you are at a disadvantage if you miss.

Its certainly much less of a disadvantage than if you had stayed on the stage, or if another character had tried to do that. Its like Jigglypuff and DDD; his recovery and aerials are good enough to go for a stage spike.

 

[Tyr_03]

lol I'd love to see a Sonic player try to run off and Bair me if I decide to plank with Metaknight. And I don't even use Metaknight. It's called ledgedrop Uair as soon as he gets near the ledge. No risk necesary. Good luck with that Sonic.

 

[Gindler]

Ivysaur has the instant tether (she can do it from above the edge so even if the edge is taken, you'll land on the stage). I'd probably say this is the most ridiculous anti-ledge camping move (it actually works)

 

[choknater]

For characters who have bad options at anti-ledge camping, just run to the middle of the stage or the other ledge... gosh.

If they keep camping the ledge, they are breaking tournament stalling rules.

If they do this in friendlies, you have no need to keep playing.

just my 2 cents yayuhz

 

[B!squick]

Ivysaur has the instant tether (she can do it from above the edge so even if the edge is taken, you'll land on the stage). I'd probably say this is the most ridiculous anti-ledge camping move (it actually works)

Yeah, Ivysaur's tether is really weird. I once saw a vid where an Ivysaur ledge hogged a MK from beneath the stage (and I mean "lol, bye Ivysaur" beneath) for a 0% death. O.o

 

[aextreme73]

for luigi...can't u use fireball then down b and up b for recovery?
and kirby...bair looks the easiest for stage spikes, expect against mk, who i would think would shuttle loop for easy knockback ko

 

[B!squick]

for luigi...can't u use fireball then down b and up b for recovery?

No. Attempting this is akin to saying "gimp me please, I want to lose this stock."

 

[Flayl]

For characters who have bad options at anti-ledge camping, just run to the middle of the stage or the other ledge... gosh.

If they keep camping the ledge, they are breaking tournament stalling rules.

No they're not, not unless you have a specific ledge concerned ban.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Choknater how is it that they are stalling when the other player is also refusing to do anything. That's ****ing ludicrous.

 

[Levitas]

Lucas and Ness's PK thunder are kinda bad at that. Same w/ PK freeze.

 

[XienZo]

Ivysaur has the instant tether (she can do it from above the edge so even if the edge is taken, you'll land on the stage). I'd probably say this is the most ridiculous anti-ledge camping move (it actually works)

Ivysaur's vulnerable after he latches on though, so if MK uses any aerial as you dangle down the ledge, you're dead.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

PK Thunder deals with Ledgecamping just fine. Its a far better option than most moves.

 

[XienZo]

PK Thunder deals with Ledgecamping just fine. Its a far better option than most moves.

Can't MK almost outrun it? At the very least, he can easily outmanuever it or clank with it.

 

[Levitas]

PK thunder is a flat out worse option than nikita, and leaves you vulnerable for more than enough frames for MK to simply roll up and attack you while you loop it around. Otherwise, you have to keep it above the level of the stage to stand a chance of defensibility (or be really far away), and either way, you need to follow enough of a pattern not to be able to hit a MK that sees these obvious limitations.

I'd take arrow or Nikita over PKT any day, but don't think that PKT is remotely able to punish a MK for ledgecamping.

Oh, and MK can just hit it.

It's better than what some guys have, but it's pretty terrible.

 

[OmegaXF]

You realize you're talking about Sonic here right? One of the safest characters you can chase offstage with. His vertical recovery makes it virtually impossible to gimp any Sonic with enough common sense to use the invincible frames on his spring properly. For a character without a projectile... you tell me what options Sonic has then?

Sonic losing a stock from the bottom of a stage is like the biggest taboo ever.

Sonic: Run off the stage B-air (Who?) MK..... Mk gets up, Sonic misses.....
Sonic: Double jump-Spring
MetaKnight- Continuous UAirs, Tornado, Shuttle Loop, Fair, DAirs, Drill???
Sonic: Oww.....

Sonic gets punished because he put himself in the wrong situation......Nuff Said

 

[Gindler]

Ivysaur's vulnerable after he latches on though, so if MK uses any aerial as you dangle down the ledge, you're dead.

If he's shuttle looping you have to time it, but it could easily work since Ivy stalls above the edge for a bit while still being latched on then falls below (you could easily just instantly press any button to get to the edge for invincibility frames). This would work worlds better on say marth, but this is only against MK now and no other character matters?