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Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

Searing_Sorrow

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As far as weight specific up throw combos, I have all of them memorized, even have in case of platform followups for certain weights. Fast fallers up throw to up smash is always optimal. Samus and Luigi all u can get is up air. Yoshi you can still tank the nair escape with a side b grab after the up throw if they manage it. My favorite combo so far been u throw>sh side b chop > up tilt > regrab up throw> hop side b chop > dair. Shame that above combo requires a platform, you to be under the platform, it raining outside, you to be good at b reversal to follow d.i , and only works on DDD dk bowser and that's about it, maybe yoshi need to check weight chart. Sucks all my followup are weight dependent so I got the chart on my phone to know how to punish till I memorize it. Came from umvc3, maybe if I mained lucario I would have some guaranteed zero to deaths. Feel like I overanalyze this character.
 
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Dragoomba

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Is it just me or does Diddy's Fsmash totally **** get up attacks? There's been so many instances I try to guess an opponent's neutral tech and Fsmash, only for them to get-up attack and still get hit. Does it have a weird hitbox, or does it just have insane priority that it beats pseudo-invincible getup attacks?
 

Searing_Sorrow

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Cstick-for noobs. average - no c stick. Above average- c sick essential for play. So just like how I went on c stick, I am finding myself going back to tap jump on cause it adds OOS upb and OOS up smash to diddy's magnificent OOS options. Do have to get used to more lightly doing my tilts which will su.ck though.
 

DeFish

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I tried Diddy without tap jump and hated it. The only thing is that you need to be more precise with upward glide tosses do you don't accidentally eat your second jump.
 
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Bellioes

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Hey guys, a scrub Diddy here for help. I recently went to a local smashfest and played a ganon that gave me A LOT of trouble. Any tips for the match-up?

His Wizard Food (DownB) out-prioritized everything I tried. It completely shut down my ground game. He would do it especially when anticipating a glidetossed banana throw. The banana just bounces off the hitbox of his attack and I get hit. Or he justa throws it in randomly and Im unable to react. It kills at ridiculously low percents on Yoshis Story too!

Also, is it possible to tech his SideB grab ( grounded or aerial). I kept trying but never got it.

My gameplan was pretty much get him offstage which usually resulted in a kill. Its onstage where he seemed to always have control and I couldnt do anything at all..:/ All help would be appreciated! Thanks.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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First off against Ganon you should probably ban warioware and yoshi story.
With that being said , at early percent diddy gets good combos off of ganon with up throw, whether you follow up with short hop side b, fair, dair, or nair depends on stage and what your comfortable with. Forward glide toss should probably not be done as much without establishing a zoning game. At the right spacing, you can shoot the peanut and block the incoming down b. This will cover whether he does side b or down b since wizard foot is minus a million on block and side b gets hit by peanut. The best combo tools against ganon are diddy's up throw, up smash, and nair for juggling. It is important to note Ganon has chain grabs as well that you need to watch out for, but with a banana in hand you can go to the air and be significantly less punishable, since aerial glidetossing and b reverse peanut cancels will weave you out of all his air strikes, and can be baited for openings.
Only thing else I can think to say is learn the timing on teching away from sideb, otherwise side b> up tilt does 41% with ganon. Maybe someone else has had difficulties with ganon and can say more, about fifteen different diddy play styles in this board.
 

Bellioes

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First off against Ganon you should probably ban warioware and yoshi story.
With that being said , at early percent diddy gets good combos off of ganon with up throw, whether you follow up with short hop side b, fair, dair, or nair depends on stage and what your comfortable with. Forward glide toss should probably not be done as much without establishing a zoning game. At the right spacing, you can shoot the peanut and block the incoming down b. This will cover whether he does side b or down b since wizard foot is minus a million on block and side b gets hit by peanut. The best combo tools against ganon are diddy's up throw, up smash, and nair for juggling. It is important to note Ganon has chain grabs as well that you need to watch out for, but with a banana in hand you can go to the air and be significantly less punishable, since aerial glidetossing and b reverse peanut cancels will weave you out of all his air strikes, and can be baited for openings.
Only thing else I can think to say is learn the timing on teching away from sideb, otherwise side b> up tilt does 41% with ganon. Maybe someone else has had difficulties with ganon and can say more, about fifteen different diddy play styles in this board.
Ok great thanks. They were friendlies so we were playing random stage select lol But those are almost always my bans anyways.

As for blocking his down B, I got the feeling the shieldstun was so high. I was unable to punish really. Maybe its just me though since you say its "-a million" on shield and I could react earlier than I thought. Gonna try it out along with techning his sideB.
 

DeFish

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It's -a million if you wavedash out of shield to punish it, but the timing is tighter if you're just dropping shield normally. It's important to learn the distance if the down-b, you want to stand in a position where if Ganon does it, and you shield, he ends up on your other side and sacrifices stage positioning. I've seen a lot of Ganons do it too close to the edge and ending up off stage, where Ganon is easily dealt with.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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It's -a million if you wavedash out of shield to punish it, but the timing is tighter if you're just dropping shield normally. It's important to learn the distance if the down-b, you want to stand in a position where if Ganon does it, and you shield, he ends up on your other side and sacrifices stage positioning. I've seen a lot of Ganons do it too close to the edge and ending up off stage, where Ganon is easily dealt with.
Wave dash out of shield is a good option, so is up smash out of shield, up throw grab, up b , down smash, back throw, OOS aerial, only forward smash is possibly too slow.
 

DLA

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It might just be because Ganon is my second best char so I know how to fight him, but I think Diddy vs Ganon is Diddy's easiest MU in the game right now. I haven't even come close to losing to a Ganon in tournament, and Arty Himself lives here.

As far as down B goes, all you gotta do is not get hit by it. You can punish it easily without even wavedashing OoS. Side B can be a little trickier to avoid since it's a grab mixup, but you can still not get hit by it if you're being smart. The biggest thing Ganon struggles with in this MU is bananas; he's a big target, so just throw a banana at him and approach him and you'll already probably have him at a disadvantage, whether it trips him or not. This MU is bad for the same reasons that Ganon vs CF is bad, except that CF has to be really careful about hit approach, while Diddy can just throw a banana at Ganon then jump in and faceroll him. Diddy's combos destroy Ganon (usmash, nair, dair, fair, side B mixups), his edgeguarding destroys Ganon (up B <3), his dash attack destroys Ganon because he doesn't have good OoS options. Just remember to never be scared against Ganon--or at least, to not let your fear limit your options. Ganon's bound to get a few hits in edgewise, but as long as you're doing your job right as Diddy, Ganon's gonna struggle to hold back the Kong.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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Video should include 1. banana ladder. 2. Tri projectile strike. 3. B reverse cancel peanuts. 4. Triple b reverse air gliding. 5.banana footstool 6 The other assortment of 45 useless or highly situational jank tech.
 

ThatGuyYouMightKnow

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Thing is nanervator/banana ladder doesn't work anymore. Or at least it doesn't work like it used to (you used to be able to do it infinitely, now you can only do it a few times at most). Guess it's still worth using though!

I've got some new stuff to show off, some of which is actually usefuuuul~
 
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DeFish

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Thing is nanervator/banana ladder doesn't work anymore. Or at least it doesn't work like it used to (you used to be able to do it infinitely, now you can only do it a few times at most).
And here I've been thinking I'm just bad at it the whole time.
 

Soft Serve

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With how i set up the elevator, i go to ps2 and but both of a platform. I grab one and platform drop and throw it up, then jump and agt the one stil on the platform. It sets it up perfectly without having to wait and time it.
 

Praxis

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Fun fact I figured out about Roy- his up-B hitbox is way in front of him. I mean way in front of him.

I know you're going "So what, Praxis? We know that."

I but I mean it's really way out in front of him.

You can actually grab the ledge through his sword if you're coming in from behind him. He also doesn't snap to the ledge until after he stalls at the top, so it's actually really easy to do.

These days I go really deep after Roy and then if he gets around me I go for the ledge behind him and grab it through his up-B flames. It's glorious.

Might help @junebug vs Sethlon.
 
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Praxis

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Anyone have any tips vs Captain Falcon? I took out my rival's Roy in winners and he switched to Falcon to beat me in losers. Don't have a ton of experience on it, didn't have trouble with the Melee Falcon's I fought with Diddy but this one (that knew the Diddy matchup) gave me a lot of trouble. (We still went to last game, but it was a really rough MU for me.)

I felt like peanuts were good for messing up his ground game, but Falcon can get in and do work on Diddy if you leave any openings so pulling bananas is terrifying.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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I can't definitively say what my plans are till salt July 19 tourney. Going to have to face a really good falcon in fatality so will let you know if my baits and reads work. Had to rework my entire button outlet and play style the past month to make myself faster. Think it will pay off greatly.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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I cringed at how many times that falcon missed the knee, or should have just up air. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KPHE28P-qaw
Here is a falcon vs falcon match, had to do a lot of review. Fatality looks still zoned out during the exhibition, but it at least will help figure out the different d.I options out of combos and falcon's spacing. Against diddy he has the same grab tech options, so avoid side b and the throws or your eating bad stuff, like shffl up air to knee. Or his patent footstool combos.
On a side note, love that attempted followup you went for on smashville against sonic boss. Double jump wave dash back forward smash is a great idea. Seems like a better reward than b reverse side b so will start working on that to add to platform options.
Only question I had was is there something guaranteed with down throw at early percent? Most i got was fair. I don't get why so many diddys go for that when up throw leads to at worse a tech chase dair. At best a side b chain grab after the up throw. If its a better option, I want to know the followups for it, cause the people I play just d.I away 95% of the time till I adjusted with different throws. I like the idea of guarantees. Pm makes me glad i quit brawl . So much diversity, I don't have to have seven setups to infinites, and the combos are beter to look at than banana x 35 down smash.
 
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Praxis

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That Falcon player has a fantastic neutral game but misses a ton of punishes. Makes me wonder if he was a Brawl player.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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That Falcon player has a fantastic neutral game but misses a ton of punishes. Makes me wonder if he was a Brawl player.
Falcon from which video? I will say if your good at it fountain of dreams is a counter pick stage hurting falcon's neutral game if your running out of stages. If the guy was better yoshi story would probably have been banned. Will like to see that falcon again after his punish game increases, not sure if he didn't know combo weight or timing in that video.
 

Praxis

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Falcon from which video? I will say if your good at it fountain of dreams is a counter pick stage hurting falcon's neutral game if your running out of stages. If the guy was better yoshi story would probably have been banned. Will like to see that falcon again after his punish game increases, not sure if he didn't know combo weight or timing in that video.
The one Boss played against. He kept landing solid hits on Boss but then not taking them very far. Missed a lot of combo opportunities and went back to neutral. Boss meanwhile juggled him all day once he landed a hit.

What are good stage bans and counterpick vs Falcon? I've been having trouble with him lately.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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You shouldn't counter pick green hill zone that is good for both of you. Slightly more him. Dreamland can be pretty bad if you tend to kill at upper blast zones. Falcon has the ability to cover up b trajectory pretty easy. No yoshi story/warioware. I can always ask griffin for falcon's best stages though, he is one of PM's best falcon mains.(best combo game).
Lastly there were some spacing issues that falcon was having on top of lacking combos, though minor. Some missed l cancels, and not enough down throw pummel abuse. He had a few opportunities where boss was d.i'ing incorrectly, and we already know what happens when you give boss 3 more green mushrooms lol.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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I wish I had some video equipment right now, got a ton of tech for the diddy meta, but the combos movement style and spacing is so unorthodox trying to explain it is a lost cause. Oh well next tourney coming soon, hopefully a good showing there will assist in showcasing diddy's extra potential.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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Straight from the pm falcon to Praxis. This should give you an idea of what kind of stages to avoid.
Falcon really likes both Pokemon Stadiums, Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Dreamland, and Skyworld a lot.
Man I really need to enter a tourney soon, caught myself wave dashing in real life.
 
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Searing_Sorrow

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The more people that fall for the various chu antics, the less I find myself watching the xanadu stream. Not trying to insult the players, just Kirby can either be a breath of fresh air, or one of the ultimate hype killers, and it is usually the latter.
 
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Seagull Joe

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Anyone have any tips vs Captain Falcon? I took out my rival's Roy in winners and he switched to Falcon to beat me in losers. Don't have a ton of experience on it, didn't have trouble with the Melee Falcon's I fought with Diddy but this one (that knew the Diddy matchup) gave me a lot of trouble. (We still went to last game, but it was a really rough MU for me.)

I felt like peanuts were good for messing up his ground game, but Falcon can get in and do work on Diddy if you leave any openings so pulling bananas is terrifying.
From 0 Uthrow>Usmash 3x>Fair. If he sdi's the Usmash then just follow up on reaction. :falcon: kind of gets bopped by :diddy:. Just throw him up. Stay grounded. Throwing one banana up with another in hand or in front while you shoot a peanut hinders all his approaches. You cannot grab him if he knee>jab's your shield. Just wait out the jab.

I play a :falcon: all the time (Crescent Monkey).

:018:
 

Searing_Sorrow

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If crescent monkey doesn't just d.I towards diddy and jump out , not sure he is a fair representation of falcon pm players. Falcon has less accelerated fall speed than fox , and just enough weight to break out before the 1st up smash. In addition, you can also straight up SDI out of the first up smash of diddy's if the first hit connects. Definitely not guaranteed. But if he doesn't do any of those two things, then he appears to be eating big damage. Lastly, the fact that falcon allowed you to get not 1 but two bananas, means he wants to lose anyway. And on the knee hitting the shield, I tend to go for cc down tilt though not sure how if that is viable or not since I only play against falcon in passing. Most of the good falcons are still playing melee.
 
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DLA

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Falcons are tough for Diddy if they know that Nair goes through bananas and peanuts, and they know how to finish their combos against you. They both pretty much just combo the **** out of each other. Diddy can camp but it's dangerous because of Falcon's explosive speed.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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I can't help but notice the diddy meta has become too stagnant and textbook lately, and since I won't be on stream for still some time, here are three things you can practice as a diddy main that will greatly improve your game.
1. Tri and Quad projectiles. Difficulty 3.5/5 This is the easiest thing I am sharing so you need to have mastered agt in all directions before practicing this.
The trick is that peanuts can be immediately canceled into an air dodge, this means while holding a banana, diddy can Short hop peanut> ag up while throwing the banana forward> then shoot another peanut. This technique is great for adding pressure from far away, team support , and edgeguarding fire emblem, uses also include stopping bomb jumps and Samus down b floats from horizontal.
The quad shot difficulty ranges from 4-4.5/5 depending on which version. The hardest version requires you to replicate a real time situation. Step one : run to the ledge and light toss a banana (no b reverse) behind diddy. Step 2: jump backwards and z grab the banana. Step 3: in regrab, start a peanut shot and b reverse it to shoot out off the platform to the opponent off stage. Step 4: release shot, then jump again and fire another peanut. Step 5: aerial glide up and toss the banana forward. Step 6: shoot the last popgun shot and up b back on stage, ( this also puts you under opponent when you recover, so use it to hit opponent again if needed). Also note some people find it easier to run Ind b reverse the initial banana pluck, both work better for different ranges.
Technique 2 : (no name, nickname aerial wave dash) difficulty-3.5/5. Necessary
Fun fact, Diddy's popgun can be used in the air. Fun fact, diddy's popgun can be canceled. Fun fact, diddy's popgun can be b reversed to change momentum instantly. When you combine that all together, diddy's aerial mobility goes to a whole new level. With a banana in hand, diddy has a confusing cluster of options disorienting the opponent from nothing jump to footstool to no b reverse peanut cancel to jump b reverse cancel glide to the right toss banana down etc, the options are virtually endless and can be used to bait the opponent to do an attack while diddy quickly glides down while tossing a banana forward.
How to do it. Get a running start and jump, next use the popgun and press the opposite direction of where you ran from to change directions. Lastly simply cancel popgun by pressing shield, and you can go back to doing whatever pressure you want. From cross up aerials to glide tosses and z drops. And to add even more fun, you can also reverse b in a way that you turn around to shoot without changing momentum. If you learn nothing else learn this, the tech will assist you in playing other characters like Lucas.
3.The easiest and hardest. Up throw over down throw at early percent. By this point, everyone and their grandmother d.i's towards diddy to avoid fair or chain down throw followups. So adapt, by doing up throw, against some characters, such as diddy, you can get a short hop side b. A basic combo is up throw> sh side b> sh nair > upb. This is all assuming a competent opponent that can d.I. that is still 48% instantly off of one grab, with platforms, diddy has the ability to chain into nairs up tilts dair and footstools with practice. Because this is d.I dependent , you will have to be able to read your opponent, memorize who all this works on, know what characters not to do this on, and know when to stop trying to follow-up.
This was just some stuff I learned in a month of play, sorry no videos to show this stuff is very practical, hopefully I can put on a good showing at next tourney. (if its like last time, Reflex and pikachad will be there, so tune in to SALT July 19) will provide more info as date grows nearer.
 
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Searing_Sorrow

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Lol I am actually part of a scene in statesboro Georgia, just haven't been in a while due to job hunts. They still have battles on twitch every once in a while. Will post stream when I stop back by. There are good Zelda Roy link diddy dk and DDD at this time I know of, and the scene growing pretty fast. We deciding rank numbers in august but during summer, most people are doing summer classes or summer jobs. I just wanted to give some new tech options since the play at Xanadu is the only scene with a diddy most people know of, and their play styles are all fairly similar. Banana= profit
 

DLA

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Gonna drop some of my best recent matches on you guys:


(1st match is fine, 2nd match has a lot of stream lag, 3rd match is fine)
 

Searing_Sorrow

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Shots fired at Xanadu in the video lol. and yea DDD vs diddy is a diddy favored matchup. You got up smash chains up tilts nair and everything works on DDD. Diddy even has air mobility options to counter DDD. Watching them in order now.
 
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