Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[Bellioes]

Alright, thanks for the tip. Ill try to work that in next time. It really seems like such an uphill battle for Diddy and imo, one of his harder MU's ... :/

 

[DeFish]

Nah, you just need to know how to play it. Against characters like Ivy that like to force approaches, you can leverage your superior mobility and projectile game to force them to approach. This is my go-to strategy against Ivy, Zelda, and Peach.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Oh sorry matchup doesn't happen much for me to have too much info. The only really frightening thing I had to note when playing ivysaur is getting grabbed when solar beam is on deck means vine whip or solar beam will hit off throw. Back air wall can be very annoying, and they deal with projectiles pretty well. With that said it wasn't too horrible, ivy dies early, and that banana setup someone mentioned actually worked pretty well for me just to pull it out near the ledge and hold on with no fear. That and kart wheel pretty much can ruin the tether recovery. Don't be fooled into jumping over ivysaur too much, razor leaf is not 2.6 good anymore and at too close can be kicked through. If I remember right the conventional up throw to side b only works at early percents on ivy, but you can get free followups off down throw unless immaculate d.I. Again need to play matchup more to know stages and all, sorry. Mainly play against DDD sonic Mario link Roy Zelda sheik zss dk bowser ganon a ness yoshi mewtwo marth and Luigi. Falcon wario squirtle ivy etc I only see at tourney. And derp dash with banana is usually good enough since I can pull out two with the popgun to stuff all spacing attempts. People want to approach so hard even in bad situations its weird.

 

[DeFish]

What are you guys doing to follow up d-throws at lower percents? I feel like if they DI correctly, the best I can really hope for is a regrab. Poor DI can lead to nair and other aerials.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Sometimes I get dash attack, sometimes I hard read running up smash into a side b grab and dair , depends on character weight. Only go for that on those that can't be chain thrown, which are not too many, or when they are a little out of %. Down throw is not too guaranteed, same away d.I always good no matter what

 

[Bellioes]

@ Searing_Sorrow , you said the UThrow>SideB grab chain throw works on all but 5 characters. How exactly did you test all this to make sure it was a true combo? Did you have a second player to practice with mashing jump or what? I want to work on my punish game with Diddy. Is there a way to test the percents in training or you need another human?

You make it sound like, in most of your posts, the chain throw is one of Diddys bread and butter combos so it should be worth it to go and test and learn the data. Unless you have the data to share, I dont mind finding it myself. Just want to know how you did it so I can copy it. Thanks.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Trial and error. And a human player to test d.I against. It varies greatly on what to do first depending on character. How you went into the throw also seems to matter which is wierd. Example fox from 0 I have to up throw to up throw then read d.I up smash. Mario and marth have to be done at very early percent. DDD dk and bowser it can be done on till close to 30%, and gets brutal with platforms. Roy (though not fully tested) at 0 better off going up throw second hit box on curve of up air, into nair, then up smash or regrab for right or no d.i, and for left d.I, up throw bair bair regrab. He doesn't actually get up throw to side b unless a between a very small percent window.
I say chain throw because it will always lead to a second mid combo regrab at some point in the combo. Also on Luigi just don't even think about trying it. That nair trades with no one. Rob they have to have bad d.I so just down throw is probably better. Jigglypuff nuff said, same. Samus just up throw up air or go for glory with (down throw> dash attack upsmash/up smash > jump side b) her floatiness is a big issue. In short its not always as easy as up throw side b but its an easy place to get people started in a lot of matchups. Also explaining further was pointless since most still were not even trying it in lab and then just saying doesn't work. It just became wasted text till I go to tourneys lol. Maybe its good for me if iothers aren't doing it, less likely to be nerfed and more of a surprise factor

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Edit: Not guaranteed just d.I trap.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Smash 5 tourney in Georgia, got 5th place again. Think a part of me may be allergic to earning money. Lost to ss soft 2-3 and just died on the inside after that. Pm tourney was stacked with a lot of Georgia's best melee players so it was great from a competition standpoint even if they don't enjoy the game as much.

 

[Praxis]

After doing uthrow to side-B, what followup do you do? Attack? Spike? Wait?

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

After doing uthrow to side-B, what followup do you do? Attack? Spike? Wait?

Sorry been working, and in case people think every match I have has Hype chain throws, your wrong, my diddy is extremely campy. Like serious camper, Tent so big I just added a mini fridge and getting a.c next week.

To praxis: Depends on character and d.I , against DDD and dk, nair to up b is guaranteed. Against Roy an up smash to air side b again. Recently if my opponent d.I is not there or are dk size, I will foot stool them on a banana setup and get virtually guaranteed dair side b shenanigans.
Against Luigi, don't do it!!! Down throw wave dash back to bait the like 3f hit stun cancel nair, then fair the guy best I could do. Double projectile zone and hit and run the guy.

But Again different extensions dependent on character. Would probably have made more progress on it, but haven't been getting too many ideas lately. There are also specific platform combos and such, and I was practicing something brutal for falcon when he reaches percent x, but don't know if person I was assisting in ranking in friendlies was d.i'ing well. It was a long two day period with 20h work and 5h drive, but if 26-132% actually os inescapable on falcon, the punish games would be equal for the two..
Also important to mention side b is a grab with all the same properties except your projectiles can interfere with the opponent, so at times a fast chop is needed for characters like Roy, but if you find a character like link not mashing, delay chop so you get free up smash and harder punishes.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vEyzZV5ox00
So everyone can see just how free I was lol. Played like hurt feelings, and decision making was just terrible from start to finish, but here is the match I referred to with soft. You can critique if you want, but you will end up with a 500 page paragraph of no before game 3.... if your writing in 8 font.
The match against nicaboy's sheik wasn't on stream sadly, I had a ton of questions for better approaches and best d.I to avoid the absurd punishes after a successful grab guessing game. Won with a panic offensive up b in green hillzone that stuffed oos nair.

 

[Bellioes]

Hit a new record at our weekly last weekend with 58 entrants this week (57 last week)! No Xanadu stream so VGBC actually hosted our stream. It was hype and everyone was excited with GimR getting us those extra viewers! Ill try to get my stream matches uploaded to YouTube.

Anyways, I made it to gf against HolyNightmare's MK and got wrecked, only able to take a single stock off of him each game. Is it just me or the MU is really really difficult... Holy is obviously a better player than me so Im wondering if he was just "that" much better than me or the MU had at least something to do with it.

Its pretty demoralizing to get completely destroyed like that and on-stream too and Im hoping its not completely due to the diffrrence in skill level. I mean I was having trouble finding answers to anything he was doing. Any tips for the MU would be appreciated too!

Also, Ive been trying to use some footstools in my gameplay as well and actually pulled off a couple footstool>UpB kills in actual tourney matches. It felt good LOL Condition the opponent to shield on platforms or after a cross-up on your shield and BAM, they wont know what hit them!

 

[Bellioes]

Just saw your match @ Searing_Sorrow and what a bummer. Almost had that... If youre looking for some critique, I really think you should work the regular A-button banana pickups as well as the dashing throws out of your gameplay.

Wavedashing over banans is a lot safer and quicker since you can do it from a dash and it gives you some mobility during pickups. Picking up bananas with A means you have to walk to the banana since you cant crouch cancel a dash like you can a run. It slowed down your game a lot to have to do this.

The same thing goes for the running banana throw. Theres so much lag on it compared to a GT and you throw away oppurtunities to get better follow ups off of trips with a running throw. I saw a lot of them that also seem slow your game down.

I know you dont focus as much on bananas and I dont want to seem like I want you to change your gameplay. I actually like your diddy style and think its creative and fun to watch. I just think theses changes are a lot safer and more effecient in the situations where you do decide to use bananas.

Also, against spacies, you always go for the tech chase to Usmash after sideB attack but Uair is free damage that I would even say is guaranteed. Cant test it but it hits them before they land so Im pretty sure thats a true combo. Never seen a fox jump out of a SideB attack before landing. At lower %, you can continue the tech chase and higher % it sends them offstage. Also, I saw someone do it with Fair at the weekly by accident which would be much better than Uair at high% setting up kills from SideB grab against spacies. But I think it hits them as they land so its techable. Too bad. Anyways, you could mix this in with your normal tech follows to maybe mix it up a bit. Or just for racking up damage faster since you were missing the follow up quite often and ended up only dealing the 12% from the SideB attack.

Hope this helps !

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Thanks, never played against spacies much in pm. Heard so many things you can do to avoid some diddy tech mid match but no mention of up air. That should help a lot. Use a ton of side b setups and didnt have much for fastfallers outside of tech chase. Thanks for the critique on more use of glide toss, I was trying to swap between regular and glide tosses so he wouldn't be able to tell where the banana would land before yolo laser came in, and my banana game is still a work in progress. Match would have been a lot harder if he got the lasers as low as they should be, but he is on melee timing still. marth on green hill zone was annoying as one of his counter picks even though I am good at avoiding the tipper, not much you can do when it will kill you in either direction and dair or wave dash forward smash will answer all of life's problems.

Did waay more dash attack than should have, but it is really constricting to my game when opponent has better or equal zoning utility (mario falco). and I found out later distant planet was banned lol. Still had fun and incorporating everything I picked up on. Working on chain throws from side b instead of up throw, timing is very strict and works on less characters, but side b > up smash> air side b may work and b reverse covers other d.I options. Just strict window. Will watch your metaknight match if you have a link.

And if it makes you feel better, I got four stocked by a falcon that took till after matches to find the holes in what he was doing. Ironically derp dash would have been a great answer with clever dash dance and wave dash mimics. He was playing falcon like sonic with a super punish game, and it was extremely confusing. Well that is the best pm falcon so no surprise there.

 

[Bellioes]

Well it is Ally's brother so no surprise there ahah I just hope to one day be playing at that level. And I just have a twitch link for now sorry... its me playing losers semis, losers finals and grand finals all in one 30min block.
http://www.twitch.tv/ssbmontreal/b/554998203
The MK match happens around the last 10 min though. Since I lost 2-0, it shouldnt be far from the end.

Matches should get uploaed to the ssbMontreal YT channel though so if you cant watch twitch vids for some reason (ex. On mobile), Ill let you know when theyre up.

I just realized I also have an example of the Uair on spacies in one of my videos.
http://youtu.be/HGnqdI8TJEM
Ignore the rest of the match because its not too high level but at 3:15, I get the sideB to Uair twice in a row. Sorry about the horrible quality though..

Two more examples at 3:00 and 4:10 in this video.
http://youtu.be/EVZFLrHQKZc

 

[GeZ]

Yo, questions, played against a Diddy Kong at a local and it was pretty frustrating. I had been playing Melee for a few hours before someone brought Project M so my transition was rocky, and the guy wasn't half bad. My gripe was/ is that playing against Diddy is such a weird experience. What he does and why he does it is so completely different from all other matchups that it can be polarizing.

I had to leave after one game and I left salty cause I had a better grasp over the game than the guy who I played against (used items better, footsied better, etc.) but he won because it was a whole different game.

Like, I really like P:M, but real talk, the matchup diversity is a bit much at this point. Like in Melee some matches are only winnable by virtue of just being better (GnW v Fox) but in Project M, while all MU's are winnable without requiring straight skill, a lot of matchups operate as if they're in a vacuum. /gripe

 

[Seagull Joe]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vEyzZV5ox00
So everyone can see just how free I was lol. Played like hurt feelings, and decision making was just terrible from start to finish, but here is the match I referred to with soft. You can critique if you want, but you will end up with a 500 page paragraph of no before game 3.... if your writing in 8 font.
The match against nicaboy's sheik wasn't on stream sadly, I had a ton of questions for better approaches and best d.I to avoid the absurd punishes after a successful grab guessing game. Won with a panic offensive up b in green hillzone that stuffed oos nair.

Holy ****, Georgia is terrible based on this vid. You absolutely need to pick up bananas with wavedash. The fact Soft let you walk over to bananas to pick em up with the A button astounds me lol.

For amazing/proper item play I'd suggest watching my match vs Smash G0D that was uploaded yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-axXfCGsOhs&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw

 

[Bellioes]

Yo, questions, played against a Diddy Kong at a local and it was pretty frustrating. I had been playing Melee for a few hours before someone brought Project M so my transition was rocky, and the guy wasn't half bad. My gripe was/ is that playing against Diddy is such a weird experience. What he does and why he does it is so completely different from all other matchups that it can be polarizing.

I had to leave after one game and I left salty cause I had a better grasp over the game than the guy who I played against (used items better, footsied better, etc.) but he won because it was a whole different game.

Like, I really like P:M, but real talk, the matchup diversity is a bit much at this point. Like in Melee some matches are only winnable by virtue of just being better (GnW v Fox) but in Project M, while all MU's are winnable without requiring straight skill, a lot of matchups operate as if they're in a vacuum. /gripe

Im not sure I see the question in all this ... Are you asking for tips against Diddy?

 

[GeZ]

Im not sure I see the question in all this ... Are you asking for tips against Diddy?

Right, was literally running out the door as I typed, question was, is there a way to make this MU less polarizing? What could I do with the bananas to diddy/ how can I keep the game from being all about bananas? What is Diddy weak to?

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Holy ****, Georgia is terrible based on this vid. You absolutely need to pick up bananas with wavedash. The fact Soft let you walk over to bananas to pick em up with the A button astounds me lol.

For amazing/proper item play I'd suggest watching my match vs Smash G0D that was uploaded yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-axXfCGsOhs&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw

And then maybe next time we can watch your amazing 0-death combos and originality... all done where is junebug or boss videos I feel like winning. lol jk no smash boards beef/ seriously though I don't know where your beef came from attacking a growing community, worse thing i said remotely bad on s@x is never base an entire meta on one region (during nerf discussions I might add). I still tune in to see new setups every now and then, but the only reason i place high is because my chain throwing shenanigans makes about half the cast hard to win with, and i only need one touch for 0-64 or higher. If you actually read post, you would know this is a pure melee player, so if you can't win the melee matchup, turn it into a brawl battle and confuse the opponent, not my fault I was allowed to pick up bananas. I still lost.

Now more on topic, I have said multiple times that my banana game is extremely lacking(play on and off for 3 months and 1 month brawl diddy. Now if you posted link and made a non-condescending statement I would have gladly taken your advice. And personally thanked you with sincerity for taking time out of the day for others to improve (wishful thinking). Since that tourney I have been watching player 1 videos and yours actually, focused solely on bananas and bananas for side b trap (Honestly every competent diddy has a better banana game than me but I acknowledge I am playing catch-up.) if it was not for the popgun 3/4 of my zoning and setups would not exist.

In the future though, I would suggest not making post like this or it will discourage other players from posting or asking for help in the future. Good luck at next s@x still cheering for you.... but admittably less now

 

[GeZ]

And then maybe next time we can watch your amazing 0-death combos and originality... all done where is junebug or boss videos I feel like winning. lol jk no smash boards beef/ seriously though I don't know where your beef came from attacking a growing community, worse thing i said remotely bad on s@x is never base an entire meta on one region (during nerf discussions I might add). I still tune in to see new setups every now and then, but the only reason i place high is because my chain throwing shenanigans makes about half the cast hard to win with, and i only need one touch for 0-64 or higher. If you actually read post, you would know this is a pure melee player, so if you can't win the melee matchup, turn it into a brawl battle and confuse the opponent, not my fault I was allowed to pick up bananas. I still lost.

Now more on topic, I have said multiple times that my banana game is extremely lacking(play on and off for 3 months and 1 month brawl diddy. Now if you posted link and made a non-condescending statement I would have gladly taken your advice. And personally thanked you with sincerity for taking time out of the day for others to improve (wishful thinking). Since that tourney I have been watching player 1 videos and yours actually, focused solely on bananas and bananas for side b trap (Honestly every competent diddy has a better banana game than me but I acknowledge I am playing catch-up.) if it was not for the popgun 3/4 of my zoning and setups would not exist.

In the future though, I would suggest not making post like this or it will discourage other players from posting or asking for help in the future. Good luck at next s@x still cheering for you.... but admittably less now

Get some thicker skin dude. You should be able to take some harsh criticism and understand they probably mean well. That's what being not so familiar with the game really fosters. Just chill. You're here to learn, they're here to teach. Even if it's not presented in the nicest way he still gave you information on how to improve.

Be thankful, not caught up in little vanity disputes. Seagull Joe seems pretty chill anyway. There were some silly inconsistencies in that vid. He was just telling it like it was. Walking to pick up bananas is weak sauce, no matter what your game background is.

 

[Soft Serve]

Right, was literally running out the door as I typed, question was, is there a way to make this MU less polarizing? What could I do with the bananas to diddy/ how can I keep the game from being all about bananas? What is Diddy weak to?

Short answer, you cant effectively. Diddy's bananas are similar to falco lasers in that they are centralizing in his MU's.

But there are tons of counterplay to bananas, and if you're not looking for item counterplay, just play more rushdown and punish him everytime he tries to pull one out.

Thats pretty simplistic, but the only way to stop the MU from turning into banana control is not letting him pull them out.

 

[GeZ]

Short answer, you cant effectively. Diddy's bananas are similar to falco lasers in that they are centralizing in his MU's.

But there are tons of counterplay to bananas, and if you're not looking for item counterplay, just play more rushdown and punish him everytime he tries to pull one out.

Thats pretty simplistic, but the only way to stop the MU from turning into banana control is not letting him pull them out.

Fine with that. I'll just bully him next time with GnW. Thanks Soft Serve.

 

[Seagull Joe]

And then maybe next time we can watch your amazing 0-death combos and originality... all done where is junebug or boss videos I feel like winning. lol jk no smash boards beef/ seriously though I don't know where your beef came from attacking a growing community, worse thing i said remotely bad on s@x is never base an entire meta on one region (during nerf discussions I might add). I still tune in to see new setups every now and then, but the only reason i place high is because my chain throwing shenanigans makes about half the cast hard to win with, and i only need one touch for 0-64 or higher. If you actually read post, you would know this is a pure melee player, so if you can't win the melee matchup, turn it into a brawl battle and confuse the opponent, not my fault I was allowed to pick up bananas. I still lost.

Now more on topic, I have said multiple times that my banana game is extremely lacking(play on and off for 3 months and 1 month brawl diddy. Now if you posted link and made a non-condescending statement I would have gladly taken your advice. And personally thanked you with sincerity for taking time out of the day for others to improve (wishful thinking). Since that tourney I have been watching player 1 videos and yours actually, focused solely on bananas and bananas for side b trap (Honestly every competent diddy has a better banana game than me but I acknowledge I am playing catch-up.) if it was not for the popgun 3/4 of my zoning and setups would not exist.

In the future though, I would suggest not making post like this or it will discourage other players from posting or asking for help in the future. Good luck at next s@x still cheering for you.... but admittably less now

Sorry for sounding so asinine lol. I was just honestly astonished you placed so high without even wave dashing to pick up bananas XD.

Get some thicker skin dude. You should be able to take some harsh criticism and understand they probably mean well. That's what being not so familiar with the game really fosters. Just chill. You're here to learn, they're here to teach. Even if it's not presented in the nicest way he still gave you information on how to improve.

Be thankful, not caught up in little vanity disputes. Seagull Joe seems pretty chill anyway. There were some silly inconsistencies in that vid. He was just telling it like it was. Walking to pick up bananas is weak sauce, no matter what your game background is.

I'm fairly chill, but I am highly critical with regards to critique. If I see something surprising then I'll say what's on my mind either on the boards or in person. I'm very nice and if anyone ever wants to message me on skype, facebook, or aim then feel free to. I love helping people!

Right, was literally running out the door as I typed, question was, is there a way to make this MU less polarizing? What could I do with the bananas to diddy/ how can I keep the game from being all about bananas? What is Diddy weak to?

Who do you use? loses to , , , , , and possibly .

 

[GeZ]

That's how it should be dude. People can't learn if others are afraid to teach.

 

[Seagull Joe]

That's how it should be dude. People can't learn if others are afraid to teach.

True, but I don't like to hurt the feelings of ones who support me! I'm always the villian LOL. I've been the villian since brawl days (Not just because I used in brawl).

The best 's currently are without a doubt Ninjalink, myself, Junebug, and Boss. If one of us posts valuable info then it's usually helpful. I still talk with Junebug all the time. He teaches me new stuff and I teach him new stuff. I can always go back to not posting in the boards tho.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Fair enough in that case I apologize, another double shift at Walmart dis so kind of tired. Just checked here cause its still the best location for critiques. Would probably have posted matches against nicaboy CV cloud nine or someone for better representation of play.

Right now Georgia pm is Reflex then fatality then basically everyone else from other fighters. I came from injustice and umvc3. Others from street fighter and who knows what. Didn't really even start thinking the game was competitive till I saw old melee videos and project m epic battles. That aside, gave myself same goal, be able to beat everyone in 5 months. 1.3 left. May edit goal to leave out reflex, that wario is like super coney with a permanent fart lol, don't mess with game designers.

 

[Player-1]

loses to , , , , , and possibly .

I haven't played a good samus with diddy yet so IDK, I think he loses to all of those chars (including sheik) plus wario

and ill fking scrape u with my rob m8

 

[Bellioes]

So MK isnt one of Diddy's bad MU? That sucks... It just came down to Holy being on a whole other level then :/

Vids of my GF set will be up this weekend then and Id appreciate some tips then to help me out for the next time we play.

 

[Player-1]

From my experience I've had an easy times with the MK players I play against, though that's not been much

 

[Seagull Joe]

beats 60-40.

 

[Bellioes]

GF vs HolyNightmare (MK)
http://youtu.be/5V52mvw0AIg

Well heres the GF set that just got uploaded. Looking back at the match, I see myself doing a lot of unsafe things and just getting flustered :/ For example, pulling bananas from above and getting juggled several times for it. I didnt put up too much of a fight game 2 either but still, all of you saying the MU is in Diddy's favor, I would appreciate feedback on how to go about the MU! I know I need critique and have a lot of things to improve as well. Fire away.

Btw, even if I made it to GF, I was lucky. Throughout the whole bracket, I faced 4 lucas, 2 Fox, 2 Sonics and 2 Marths that couldnt handle bananas and all mu I have lots of experience in because of my brother. I avoided the Ivy that keeps eliminating me and our #2 also went allGanon for fun. Otherwise, I doubt I wouldve made it so far.

Heres losers semis as well for those interested. Any critque is welcome. Ill post losers finals a soon as its uploaded.

Loser's Semis vs Wakka (Lucas)
http://youtu.be/f5faAVIB2IA

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

From playing d.p's samus I can say she has just enough range on all her moves to keep diddy away pretty well, and that fire forward smash and down smash will hit eventually. With that being said, the matchup feels strongly stage dependent, cause by using banana and popgun effectively , you can stay fairly safe through missile spam and even have her trying to get in. The match just involves a lot of wave dash back tilt pokes, and praying to get an early down throw. "I hate her never ending nair and 1/2 FD recovery tether though" in spite of, feels kind of even till a diddy at esam level appears.

 

[Seagull Joe]

GF vs HolyNightmare (MK)
http://youtu.be/5V52mvw0AIg

Well heres the GF set that just got uploaded. Looking back at the match, I see myself doing a lot of unsafe things and just getting flustered :/ For example, pulling bananas from above and getting juggled several times for it. I didnt put up too much of a fight game 2 either but still, all of you saying the MU is in Diddy's favor, I would appreciate feedback on how to go about the MU! I know I need critique and have a lot of things to improve as well. Fire away.

Btw, even if I made it to GF, I was lucky. Throughout the whole bracket, I faced 4 lucas, 2 Fox, 2 Sonics and 2 Marths that couldnt handle bananas and all mu I have lots of experience in because of my brother. I avoided the Ivy that keeps eliminating me and our #2 also went allGanon for fun. Otherwise, I doubt I wouldve made it so far.

Heres losers semis as well for those interested. Any critque is welcome. Ill post losers finals a soon as its uploaded.

Loser's Semis vs Wakka (Lucas)
http://youtu.be/f5faAVIB2IA

Holy didn't outplay you. He just hit you because you weren't doing literally anything. You need to move more and learn follow-ups. The safest way to take out bananas is still the ADHD method, which is just to FH Down B and then double jump another down b. If the opponent tries to hit you then he/she will get hit by a banana or you can kick flip.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Tipped Off 10 finally passed and after going back over friendlies and tourney assessment, I realize I am no longer good at the link m.u, and still bad against Mario.

can't even remember what options to use against link effectively between the wall of projectiles and body wall when I get in. Side b kick becomes too predictable, and power shields are negated by his shield. Not to mention the plus on block if I fail. I know I still like the small stages , skyloft, and FD versus him, but tourneys are banning jankloft to the point of practicing there being pointless.
As for Mario I hate his ability to ignore hit lag and hit stun, hate his combo breaker aerials, hate the chain grab(used to doing them not taking them) and the near guarantee throw into fair, hate the 8% spam balls, dislike having my combo game reduced to five hits or less, and the character design in general. Any advice on link, and the Mario matchup besides bust out the mewtwo?

 

[jtm94]

So I've been mulling over frame data and getting back into using Diddy as a pocket character or more and I want to know what moves to go for against Shield or can be made safe? I have weird instances of a lot of aerials seeming almost safe when landed correctly, but I can't tell if it was or the opponent just wasn't punishing optimally.

Also I didn't want to necrobump this thread, but it seems like the discussion thread as the other is hitboxes and then video critique.

 

[Soft Serve]

Copy pastaing this from data on a video I was going to make but never got around to putting the clips together:
Stufff on shield:

Aerials: assuming you land the next frame after it hits:
Max range bair Bair -2
Initial Upair -3
Dair(both hitboxes)-5
Strong fair -4
Strong nair -3

Grounded moves, assuming you act out of iasa perfectly:

Strong(max range) Dtilt -10
Forward banana toss: number of frames banana travels -2
Backwards banana toss: traveled frames -1
Dash banana toss: frames traveled -22


It's only some moves but it's still some data

 

[Journal]

Copy pastaing this from data on a video I was going to make but never got around to putting the clips together:
Stufff on shield:

Aerials: assuming you land the next frame after it hits:
Max range bair Bair -2
Initial Upair -3
Dair(both hitboxes)-5
Strong fair -4
Strong nair -3

Grounded moves, assuming you act out of iasa perfectly:

Strong(max range) Dtilt -10
Forward banana toss: number of frames banana travels -2
Backwards banana toss: traveled frames -1
Dash banana toss: frames traveled -22


It's only some moves but it's still some data

On a platform, how is the platform canceled uair on shield? I find myself being able to pull those off pretty easily and it seems like it would be good shield pressure.

 

[Soft Serve]

On a platform, how is the platform canceled uair on shield? I find myself being able to pull those off pretty easily and it seems like it would be good shield pressure.

its -3 because you land the frame after you do it. it has some good fake-shield trap aspects, like jab>dsmash. you can definitely do PC upair> dash away or drop through>wait for their OoS option. Unfortunately, repeated upairs like that have huge gaps in between them and aren't good by themselves. If you do the upair and it pushed them off the platform you can drop through and net a tech chase because they can't act after being pushed backwards off a platform while shielding for a set number of frames, and unless they are floaty they will hit the ground before the tech window opens back up again (it would be closed because they were holding a shield as they left the platform, assuming they had the shield fully pressed of course)

Vs most characters its pretty bad to do multiple, but definitely do it vs the links/ivy, they don't really have a response to it.