Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[Journal]

Thanks Soft Serve.

So Diddy is a relatively new character for me, and I was watching Junebug play, and I noticed that out of shield he often upsmashes or nairs. Why would he choose one over the other? It seems like he usually uses both when the opponent is behind him.

 

[Soft Serve]

Up smash is best used when they are right behind you, because if all the hits hit it breaks CC at incredibly low %s and combos afterwards. It's multi hit and hard to sdi out of, it sort of scoops people up. It's a great oos against people who hit you from behind or cross you up, which is something most characters generally lack.

Nair oos hits quick (frame 8, so one frame slower than grab), auto cancels, hits all around him, and vs a lot of the cast nets more than a grab would. It also has the benefit of hitting some cross up moves if they land deep, and you can covert ALOT off of them. Nair oos vs falco when he does a high dair on your shield is normally a stock if he's above 30 ish %

 

[Journal]

Up smash is best used when they are right behind you, because if all the hits hit it breaks CC at incredibly low %s and combos afterwards. It's multi hit and hard to sdi out of, it sort of scoops people up. It's a great oos against people who hit you from behind or cross you up, which is something most characters generally lack.

Nair oos hits quick (frame 8, so one frame slower than grab), auto cancels, hits all around him, and vs a lot of the cast nets more than a grab would. It also has the benefit of hitting some cross up moves if they land deep, and you can covert ALOT off of them. Nair oos vs falco when he does a high dair on your shield is normally a stock if he's above 30 ish %

So the nair is gonna have a hitbox come out quicker? Also, does it autocancel if you FF at the apex of the jump?

Also, do we have current frame data anywhere? I'm sort of new to the Diddy boards.

 

[Kneato]

Up smash is best used when they are right behind you, because if all the hits hit it breaks CC at incredibly low %s and combos afterwards. It's multi hit and hard to sdi out of, it sort of scoops people up. It's a great oos against people who hit you from behind or cross you up, which is something most characters generally lack.

Nair oos hits quick (frame 8, so one frame slower than grab), auto cancels, hits all around him, and vs a lot of the cast nets more than a grab would. It also has the benefit of hitting some cross up moves if they land deep, and you can covert ALOT off of them. Nair oos vs falco when he does a high dair on your shield is normally a stock if he's above 30 ish %

I've seen a lot of people talking about auto canceling moves. What exactly do you mean by Nair oos auto cancels?

Also, unrelated, can anyone explain a grounded glide toss? Is it the same input as an aerial glide toss?

 

[Soft Serve]

auto cancel is when you land during the moves auto-cancel frames, normally after the hitboxes end. You land with regular landing lag (4frames) even though the animation is still going on.

Ground glide tosses are the exact same inputs as an aerial on. just roll>throw item within 3 frames.

 

[Kneato]

Thanks soft serve. It looks like you are one of the few people keeping the Diddy threads alive.

Also, a bit of information that might be of interes:

I've discovered, after sifting the shaky matchup data the PM community has compiled, that besides the "PM Top tiers", (Falco, Fox, Meta Knight, Wolf, etc) Diddy is actually almost a perfect secondary for Roy mains.

Between the two, nearly every matchup is even or better. Speaking of, anyone know what the Yoshi or Puff matchups are like?

 

[Soft Serve]

Puff is weird. Shes airborne so she doesn't have to deal with his horizontal control that much, has a killer combo game on us, gimps us pretty well if she knows what to look for and when/where to go out. Diddy can out run her and control airspace really well, and strong nair kills very early (like 115-120%). There are hardly any puff players in general, even less ones that understand the MU though, so I don't know it very well. Junebug pooped on Darc's puff in the one game they played, but darc was playing the MU very poorly, drifting back with nairs/fairs onto bananas that were just laying there and letting june convert off of them, just eating peanuts the whole game, and couldn't edge guard diddy at all. He thought the up-b was disjointed so didn't try to go out and just nair/fair through the traveling hitbox. I personally think puff wins, but we have no MU knowledge on the puff's side at a high level, and only one actual top level puff who barely plays PM in hbox

 

[OU | Enen]

What are your opinions on Diddy main Marth secondary?

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

What are your opinions on Diddy main Marth secondary?

Both are neutral strong characters that slightly cover each other. Switching to marth could be better if you struggle vs floating like wario , jiggs (though not by much), peach, and samus. Though both generally can have a hard time with melee like characters (fox, falco, wolf, falcon, sheik). Overall it's good coverage, but top melee characters are very common in PM tournaments, so you may want to have an alternate playstyles for your diddy to confuse your opponent.

 

[OU | Enen]

Both are neutral strong characters that slightly cover each other. Switching to marth could be better if you struggle vs floating like wario , jiggs (though not by much), peach, and samus. Though both generally can have a hard time with melee like characters (fox, falco, wolf, falcon, sheik). Overall it's good coverage, but top melee characters are very common in PM tournaments, so you may want to have an alternate playstyles for your diddy to confuse your opponent.

Thanks! Yeah I have been trying to pick up Diddy as a potential main along with ganon and marth.

 

[OU | Enen]

Also who would be good for those melee matchups, I always struggle with a local sheik.

 

[Soft Serve]

Also who would be good for those melee matchups, I always struggle with a local sheik.

Fox covers all of diddy's bad match ups, and most of his good ones better

 

[OU | Enen]

Fox covers all of diddy's bad match ups, and most of his good ones better

Lol anyone who isn't like 5 years of practice just to have as a secondary?

 

[Soft Serve]

Lol anyone who isn't like 5 years of practice just to have as a secondary?

Sheik, or devote yourself to learning every ounce of play style differences for diddy. He doesn't need secondaries if you accept the fact there are some match ups where you have to go for the hard camp and threaten the time out. The other side is vs fox, who you can outplay and kill off one grab if your tech chases are on point and you catch onto habits, but it's still diddy's worst mus.

Honestly, it's fully except the bad mus, or always struggling with either spacies or floaties depending on who you pick as a secondary. I don't personally like secondaries as a cp tool in bracket, but it works for some people. Fox does cover all of diddy's rough times, and I already play him In melee which is why I dual main lol.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

From experience melee players are really bad vs g&w, I like him a lot more vs wolf jiggs samus and sheik. Trying to cover fox with anything other than your best character rarely works so I recommend staying salty and having a chance vs a good one instead of going for the counterpick and failing.