Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[Soft Serve]

I know it works on MK until like 70 or something. Its really really good against fast fallers, just jump fast like you're up-throw uairing with fox

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

I guess I know what to practice next.

@Seagull Joe At what percentages does that become unsafe, generally?

He would have to give you a chart,, that is character and percent dependent. Some characters you get larger followups,(bowser DDD) other characters good luck getting anything not up air(Samus Luigi). Its a good followup when nothing else works.
Though on spacies I can't decide which is better for tech chasing after an up throw, dair or side b. Any advice? Side b leads to a jab reset and is easier to connect than dair early.

 

[DeFish]

Vs spacies I like to juggle a bit with usmash and then nair/uair when that runs out, with a dair at some point to reset the combo. Diddy's ability to combo spacies and fast fallers is absurd, but I'm looking forward to experimenting with uthrow -> dair to make comboing other characters a bit easier.

Also, did any of you guys see the character weight/fall speed chart that was up on Reddit yesterday? I was surprised by how light (Meta Knight) and heavy (Yoshi, my god) some characters actually are.

Link- http://i.imgur.com/zoNZgW0.png

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Vs spacies I like to juggle a bit with usmash and then nair/uair when that runs out, with a dair at some point to reset the combo. Diddy's ability to combo spacies and fast fallers is absurd, but I'm looking forward to experimenting with uthrow -> dair to make comboing other characters a bit easier.

Also, did any of you guys see the character weight/fall speed chart that was up on Reddit yesterday? I was surprised by how light (Meta Knight) and heavy (Yoshi, my god) some characters actually are.

Link- http://i.imgur.com/zoNZgW0.png

Good idea, the person i play against generally d.i 's out after 2 to where the third is unsafe, so i have to cut the combo short, still upthrow>upsmash>upsmash> side b> jab is decent damage. Also the chart was informative, but it made me have even more questions when I thought on it lol. Example: Heavy floaty samus breaking out of combos fast, dying slow, with all improved moves.

 

[DeFish]

Are you footstooling the side b to link into a jab? And if we're looking at comboing spacies, couldn't you go for the chop out of the side-b and start linking nairs/uairs?

And I'm honestly surprised that people don't complain more about Samus, I think she's hella good in this game. I think she zones as well as Link while being way harder to kill, and DIing any of her projectiles poorly can easily cost you stocks at mid-high percents.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Are you footstooling the side b to link into a jab? And if we're looking at comboing spacies, couldn't you go for the chop out of the side-b and start linking nairs/uairs?

And I'm honestly surprised that people don't complain more about Samus, I think she's hella good in this game. I think she zones as well as Link while being way harder to kill, and DIing any of her projectiles poorly can easily cost you stocks at mid-high percents.

He is a fast faller, and hits the ground after chop before I can do an Ariel, only time for a jab reset. It may be enough time for a running sh Ariel instead of side b, though so will try that instead. As for Samus, she is kind of crazy, but a lot easier now since I just started running away from her. No matter how it looks, she can't send missiles in a straight line fast enough over diddy's projectile game. So I lame her out until she approaches me. Not ashamed to win by time out lol

 

[DeFish]

I usually opt for the aerial (I don't totally trust my side-b aim), on a stage without platforms it can often lead to your opponent being unable to land and getting tossed offstage. Then again, I could be playing people with poor DI, so take that with a grain of salt. He may not be able to chain throw like Pit or Marth, but I think that Diddy is one of the best characters to use against spacies.

I've found that laming out other projectile users is actually a pretty solid plan, especially if you're comfortable jumping/wavedashing/glide tossing out of shield. The more I play against projectile happy Samuses, Links, Tinks, and Marios, the more convinced I am that the secret to dealing with projectiles in this game is to just WD out of shield. Even on Marth I'd rather use my shield to get in instead of clanking things.

Also, Ariel is my ex-girlfriend. Aerials are what Diddy does to his victims.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

@ DLA you beat kels by the skin of your teeth. Literally. So many things that shouldn't have happened. I'm kinda like, disappointed.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Thanks for correcting had to add the word to my phone dictionary, for some reason, aerial is not a word on my phone, don't know why.
Anyway, anyone thought of any new creative things to do in neutral, think my punish game is finally maxed out for now, so can focus on new set up hits now and movement refinement.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Lol maxed out.

 

[SpiderMad]

I noticed many of you go for Dash grab over JC grab in most every instance

 

[DeFish]

I noticed many of you go for Dash grab over JC grab in most every instance

It's not that I don't want to use JC grabs, it's that my fingers never seem to be in the mood for it.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

I use it for my game and watch, but never thought it was as effective with diddy. JC grabs are usually something I only think about when doing chain throws,.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I don't ever grab. Ever.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

As a diddy main I just have to ask, when was the last time any of you got to have a match on FD in tourney? Seems like the tourney rules are kind of made against diddy's stage picks. Ex: Marth has(warioware yoshi story battlefield Fountain of dreams all with near same layout for early kills) This guarantees at least one favorable stage. yet I have not played on smashville or FD in months lol. wondering if anyone else has good stage selection advice. People started banning sky loft as well on me.

 

[Soft Serve]

GHZ is good too if you like flat stages. Lylat is good, everything is good

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

GHZ is good too if you like flat stages. Lylat is good, everything is good

I like the running room on lylat, but I come from brawl and still see the stage as tilting even when it isn't. Plus those annoying curved edges messes up my chain throws and power shielding. May do GHz, but the small blast zones are pretty dangerous, though the ceiling is nice. Does ghz sufficate your zoning when you play there? I usually get kills with up b or peanut so could see it working.

 

[DeFish]

I love GHZ, I've gotten some hilariously early kills off the side blast zones there. It also has walls on the center platform, so you can do some wall cling shenanigans too. As far as feeling suffocated, if I ever feel like things are totally out of control I'll try to ride the pendulum to give myself some time to pull bananas and reset to neutral. GHZ is a very common counter pick for me, especially because people like to ban PS2/FD/Smashville.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

No stage is bad for diddy except WW and sometimes FoD. Sometimes, they are stages we are weaker on in certain MUs, but as far as raw character-stage preference goes, diddy succeeds just about everywhere

 

[DeFish]

I usually ban WW, Yoshi's (melee), and FoD in almost every matchup. I think those stages make certain matchups (like Marth) way more difficult than they should be, and in general don't offer the things I look for in a stage pick.

It's funny watching Bowsers try to CP small stages and then fall all over the place, though.

I'm finally about at the point where I feel like I have a basic plan against most members of the cast (barring Squirtle, but I'm working on that), and I feel like Diddy has the tools to win against anyone. Not to say he doesn't have unfavorable matchups, just that nothing is overly one-sided. Are there any matchups that you guys think are bad enough to warrant swapping to a secondary?

 

[SpiderMad]

I like WW vs CF, don't see it as that bad

Peach is hard to kill, and M2K's Fox can probably obliterate all of us

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Peach isn't hard, just different. Its more about aerial bananas and peanuts before grounded anything.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

So does the diddy thread have like a matchup chart for how to approach melee vets. Seems like a good idea to make it a thread for the melee best. Could even put combos for specific matchups for guaranteed followups. Though i would want to make sure 3.0 is last update before doing something like that.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

3.0 isn't the last update.

Diddys combos aren't necessarily percent based so specifically. Most anything you do can be from reaction to where the opponents character is. Diddy doesn't require minute knowledge of what attack to use if a character is at 65%. As long as you know character weight and/or fall speed, everything else just flows together up until you hit the point of choosing whether to reset or poor on pressure after your combo ends

 

[SpiderMad]

@ KuroganeHammer Can you please get the info on Diddy's SH air time and Hit/Autocancel/IASA on his aerials?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

next week .

 

[DLA]

@ DLA you beat kels by the skin of your teeth. Literally. So many things that shouldn't have happened. I'm kinda like, disappointed.

Lol you're not alone buddy, I'm disappointed too. I played like crap all weekend.

 

[DeFish]

So I've been trying to learn to play with tap jump off lately, and have been accidentally doing a lot of utilts as a result of that, and I have to say I really like it vs floatier characters where usmash/nair would send them too far to combo. We're apparently in the age of Mewtwo now, and I've found that it seems to combo him pretty decently around 30-50%, in terms of hitting him without sending him too far to followup.

On that note, can we discuss the M2 MU? After SKTAR it seems inevitable that people are going to want to play him more, and it's a MU that I'm not personally too well versed in.

Edited because I thought of something else- Utilt can hit (though just barely) people on the lower platforms of Battlefield, and can be used to safely shield poke from below.

 

[DeFish]

Double post because clicking links is hard.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Cut tap jump off a long time ago, it just doesnt serve a purpose for diddy, and it is suicide for g&w. only time i cut it back on is when i play ness or lucas. And the only really good tools diddy has for comboing floaties at later percents are dash attack, nair , up tilt, and down tilt. No reason making tilts harder to do, it limits combo potential.

 

[SpiderMad]

I still like it for Up-b OOS, for JC grab though I transitioned along time ago to use Y+Z (unless I'm doing it out of QD with Ike). If I manage to enjoy Up-b OOS using a jump button I might turn it off

 

[DeFish]

I've actually been experimenting with AGT up throwing up to follow/lock up floaties in the air. I'm still working out what kind of hitstun aerial bananas put on people though, so it might be a total waste. I'd like to see if I can link it into an up-b, because the hitbox on Diddy's body is incredibly strong vs floatier characters. It might not be a great idea to do it in tournament, but I think it'll generally be a very fun and flashy combo.

@ SpiderMad I was going nuts last night trying to figure out why my up-b OOS weren't working at first. Then I spent the rest of the night feeling like an idiot. :/ It's hard to break a habit you've spent the last 10+ years developing.

 

[Praxis]

I need to figure out a better way to JC usmash and up-B out of shield with tap jump off. Can't do X+Cstick without clawing, and while I set R to jump it doesn't work that great.

 

[SpiderMad]

If only it still worked for shield lol, using Y> A/C-stick, Y>B, ain't so bad though

Also I thought about what if DA off stage on like GHZ, B-reverse peanut gun cancel, WJ, to Fair is possible

 

[DeFish]

How do you cancel the peanut gun in the air?

 

[SpiderMad]

The same way you would with Sheik, Shield

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

From the diddy's I play in dittos, they keep telling me my play looks quirky and odd. Is there like a Praxis depth diddy textbook I have been missing all this time? My play style currently involves many agt's using a ton of peanut cancels( seriously b reverse cancel makes it an aerial wave dash) its good, and let's you turn around flip kick instantly. Chainthrows , and dair ,nair, locks. Is this really that unorthodox? Training for July 19th tourney and want to pick up some old tech I may have missed transitioning late from brawl. (Only thing I miss from that game were the setups I had to infinites)

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

-Snip-

Stick with Lucario. Not that I've ever seen your Diddy, but you're cooler in my eyes if you do.

If you want real advice? AGTing a lot and peanut cancels aren't what I would be doing a ton of, because that kind of style is what I do and it doesn't get me very far. Learn smarts, which for this char would be how to confuse the other guy with your banana placements, before you start trying tricksies.

I try tricksies too often, but I like to stress that learning them maximizes Diddy no matter how wrong I probably am.

Knowing that, I saw someone talking about upwards AGTs; this is great because upward AGT rethrow is very useful in making followups happen that you normally couldn't do. I've always been amazed by how easy it CAN be to do this to someone, especially spacies. Uthrow into agt rethrow up works, and it's also an amazing option against people who have get out of jail options (Luigi-like nairs, counters, invuln).

And remember that you don't have to move yourself in order to AGT; you can airdodge in place and AGT the banana, which makes it even safer than moving with it. That also helps with adjusting your AGT for combos or proper zoning, as you can airdodge left or right to adjust to DI, as you throw the banana up.

Some things I like to do with bananas that I don't believe ALWAYS work, or are weight specific;

uthrow > downB > fair/uair/sideb
uthrow > AGT rethrow up > dj fair/no dj uair
dthrow > AGT rethrow up-forward/item pickup to toss

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW

 

[Soft Serve]

Diddy has the best useless tech