Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[Meechman400]

What do you guys do to deal with Squirtle's side-b? Got knocked out of the Netplay tournament tonight by Wombat and his shellnanigans.

Utilize WD OoS a lot vs. Squirtle's Side-B, you can get a lot of punishes that way.
Source: 6-0'd Wombat this way the last time I played him in a Netplay tourney (granted I main Marth/Falcon and shouldn't be on this thread, you should still try implementing my advice).

 

[Soft Serve]

Burnsy thinks squirtle wins the MU and from my exp I'd agree with him. Don't really have anything to add to this though, its just rough imo. I'll ask him this weekend more details

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

What I do when I play mario is just platform camp. To break his side b armor you usually need to land a meaty move at least at low %

 

[Hashtag]

Burnsy thinks squirtle wins the MU and from my exp I'd agree with him. Don't really have anything to add to this though, its just rough imo. I'll ask him this weekend more details

I would agree with burnsy on this.

 

[Phan7om]

What are Diddy's weaknesses... or rather, how can Diddy get defeated?

 

[DLA]

The time to pressure Squirtle's side B is right after the move ends. WD out of shield and run straight at him, he won't be in a great position to defend when he comes out. Or if he's being predictable with it, just try to Dsmash or Fair his shell or something, he's not invincible in the shell.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Okay I'd like to access my rant as a reasonably good player for PM as a whole...


WTF IS GOING ON IN OUR TOP DIDDY SLOT!?!? SERIOUSLY.

There are names that shouldn't be there, even from our own regular members and known diddy names, and I'm very disheartened from seeing that. Honestly, I'd like to be taken off. There's no reason I should be frustrated with that, even when my names NOT on it, I'm still appalled. I understand our regions being different and skills and players understanding against diddy and blah blah blah, but cmon y'all. Get it together.

I played Hashtag at the past tournament and he's barely played 3 months of this game and he's better than a couple people on that thread.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Okay I'd like to access my rant as a reasonably good player for PM as a whole...

WTF IS GOING ON IN OUR TOP DIDDY SLOT!?!? SERIOUSLY.

There are names that shouldn't be there, even from our own regular members and known diddy names, and I'm very disheartened from seeing that. Honestly, I'd like to be taken off. There's no reason I should be frustrated with that, even when my names NOT on it, I'm still appalled. I understand our regions being different and skills and players understanding against diddy and blah blah blah, but cmon y'all. Get it together.

I played Hashtag at the past tournament and he's barely played 3 months of this game and he's better than a couple people on that thread.

Blame the randoms that post videos. My region gets the most limelight for PM because of VGBC loool.

 

[DLA]

Don't take it so personally man, remember that it's one guy maintaining the thread. It's not an official list by any means, and I doubt he really has any way of organizing the names other than just watching the thread and getting a general feel for what people are saying. There was a big top Diddy discussion a week or two ago and everyone was mentioning different names without giving any results. The guy got confused and listed them all for some reason.

If you want to fix it, post your opinion in that thread instead of complaining here lol, there's nothing we can do about it here.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Sonic and Squirtle both beat Diddy imo

 

[Praxis]

Sonic and Squirtle both beat Diddy imo

Why Sonic? I had a lot of issues with a Sonic this weekend (first time fighting one) and I couldn't help but feel like I was falling for gimmicks/illusions/traps, but I was having a really hard time figuring out the proper responses to the awkward situations he put me in.

I can agree with Squirtle, I think Kirby and Falco also win over Diddy slightly though I really enjoy both matchups.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Sonic is, essentially, the same character as diddy. Its basically whoever makes the first move, and whoever is successful landing the hit or punishing. Which is any matchup ever lol, but I feel its more prominent in sonic vs diddy.

Squirtle is hard for us, gotta play hit and run.
Same for Kirby basically. Lots of peanuts and air bananas.
Falcos a pain as well. Always have a banana in hand unless you've already got momentum and offensive neutral reads with landing combos or getting the grab.

 

[Praxis]

Squirtle is hard for us, gotta play hit and run.
Same for Kirby basically. Lots of peanuts and air bananas.

I come from Brawl, hearing "play hit and run" makes me happy.

 

[DeFish]

I come from Brawl, hearing "play hit and run" makes me happy.

I wish I'd played more Diddy in Brawl, I actually have a hard time playing campy.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I wish I'd played more Diddy in Brawl, I actually have a hard time playing campy.

Its not really campy, its hit and run. That just means getting your hits and constantly resetting to neutral

 

[Praxis]

Its not really campy, its hit and run. That just means getting your hits and constantly resetting to neutral

Because Diddy has a great neutral game.

What people don't get about Diddy is that letting Diddy get a naner in hand, a naner on the stage, and the center of the stage, is the same thing as letting Falco dair your shield.

People frequently let Diddy run away because they think he's resetting the match to neutral. He's not. If you let Diddy run away, he sets up the stage for pressure. People need to learn to stay on Diddy.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

^^^ exactly that

 

[Praxis]

I feel like I should put that in my sig, but I enjoy mocking M2K for letting me grab him too much...

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Upsmash.



That is all.

 

[Praxis]

Upsmash.



That is all.

Hm??

 

[DeFish]

Hm??

Combine it with spacies. Repeat until salty.

In all seriousness though, what it does to heavies and fast fallers is ridiculous.

 

[SpiderMad]

Combine it with spacies. Repeat until salty.

In all seriousness though, what it does to heavies and fast fallers is ridiculous.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

OK so have incorporated the whole up throw short hop monkey flip chain grab into my play style for a while now since it works on a lot of the cast, but was having difficulties in the falcon and samus matchup and was wondering do the up throw up smash juggles work on falcon as well as it works on spacies? And what were some good punish chains on samus?

 

[Soft Serve]

OK so have incorporated the whole up throw short hop monkey flip chain grab into my play style for a while now since it works on a lot of the cast, but was having difficulties in the falcon and samus matchup and was wondering do the up throw up smash juggles work on falcon as well as it works on spacies? And what were some good punish chains on samus?

up smash juggles should work even better on falcon because he is a fast faller but even heavier. Just follow his DI and you'll get like 60+ dmg and any aerial if he doesn't SDI perfectly.
Samus is hard to get strings on. Weak Nairs and Dairs to end combos and turn them into ground tech chases are your best bet at racking up dmg for punishes. Its a rough MU for us imo, but edge guarding her is easy now that her tether is so predictable. just force her to recover low with projectiles, and then grab ledge > drop off Up-B charge when she gets close, release when you see the tether comming in.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

up smash juggles should work even better on falcon because he is a fast faller but even heavier. Just follow his DI and you'll get like 60+ dmg and any aerial if he doesn't SDI perfectly.
Samus is hard to get strings on. Weak Nairs and Dairs to end combos and turn them into ground tech chases are your best bet at racking up dmg for punishes. Its a rough MU for us imo, but edge guarding her is easy now that her tether is so predictable. just force her to recover low with projectiles, and then grab ledge > drop off Up-B charge when she gets close, release when you see the tether comming in.

Thanks figured the floatiness may be a bit rough but only got to tank one match against a good one so couldn't even think of a valid idea. Also why do none of the diddys go for the chain grab, up throw is a lot better than down throw at early percent most of the time.

 

[SpiderMad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBfvwXeeuc

 

[Praxis]

I don't think it's as free as people think it is. It's heavily influenced by DI and SDI.

Though I did get this classic out of it.

 

[Soft Serve]

On the samus mu, im starting to get more exp on it now, my friend byrd dropped zelda and now plays tink/samus (at least for this week idk, samus is his melee secondary so he might stick with her).

Theres a lot of good banana tech to make the neutral game more managable. I wanted to make a quick video about it but i have no batteries in my house so i cant navagate wii menu.
Basically, if samus is shooting missles from a distance, glide toss forward toss forward. Banana clanks and goes in the air. Jump up and instant agt it, tossing toward samus and gliding in what ever direction you need for the spacing/situation. Agt forwards covers a lot of ground if youre geting camped.

This character is so flexible. With smart item use pretty much every mu is managable. I used to think samus bodied diddy but i think its even now because diddy should straight up win neutral and samus has to work too hard to get pressure to begin with that all she can do to stop us from resetting to neutral is shooting missles, which is easy to deal with if you dont panic and just get hit.

Falco/mario/fox/sonic/squirtle/shiek/mk are who give me the most trouble in neutral still.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

On the samus mu, im starting to get more exp on it now, my friend byrd dropped zelda and now plays tink/samus (at least for this week idk, samus is his melee secondary so he might stick with her).

Theres a lot of good banana tech to make the neutral game more managable. I wanted to make a quick video about it but i have no batteries in my house so i cant navagate wii menu.
Basically, if samus is shooting missles from a distance, glide toss forward toss forward. Banana clanks and goes in the air. Jump up and instant agt it, tossing toward samus and gliding in what ever direction you need for the spacing/situation. Agt forwards covers a lot of ground if youre geting camped.

This character is so flexible. With smart item use pretty much every mu is managable. I used to think samus bodied diddy but i think its even now because diddy should straight up win neutral and samus has to work too hard to get pressure to begin with that all she can do to stop us from resetting to neutral is shooting missles, which is easy to deal with if you dont panic and just get hit.

Falco/mario/fox/sonic/squirtle/shiek/mk are who give me the most trouble in neutral still.

Thanks Mario I dont have that issue with because his fireball is slow enough to perfect block easily, and i get good followups alot. For shiek sonic and mk, try the up throw to sh monkey flip chain grabs, hitting with monkey flip or up throw leads to the other pretty reliably, and with platforms you get 0 to deaths on some characters or at least a dair. surprise monkey flip as soon as sonic tries to go over a banana beats all his rolls(i think) and he is perfect weight for followups. Squirtle mu sucks, unless they forward b from far away, but good ones are a pain that have to be crouch canceled a lot or triangle dodged. Aside from that The samus advice was helpful since my scene has 0 to play. Wonder if someone else has some good followup ideas for punishes against the cast, bowser is just about a near free mu till they buff him so the only characters i have issues with now are - falco, zss, cf, (high pressure) dk, and samus

 

[Seagull Joe]

Thanks Mario I dont have that issue with because his fireball is slow enough to perfect block easily, and i get good followups alot. For shiek sonic and mk, try the up throw to sh monkey flip chain grabs, hitting with monkey flip or up throw leads to the other pretty reliably, and with platforms you get 0 to deaths on some characters or at least a dair. surprise monkey flip as soon as sonic tries to go over a banana beats all his rolls(i think) and he is perfect weight for followups. Squirtle sucks, unless they forward b from far away, but good ones are a pain that have to be crouch canceled a lot or triangle dodged. Aside from that The samus advice was helpful since my scene has 0 to play. Wonder if someone else has some good followup ideas for punishes against the cast, bowser is just about a near free mu till they buff him so the only characters i have issues with now are - falco, zss, cf, (high pressure) dk, and samus

Wut.

 

[Soft Serve]

I'm interested in the up-throw to air side-b. I wonder if thats actually a thing.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

What in the **** is a triangle dodge

 

[SpiderMad]

Old melee technique of doing a sloppy waveland

 

[DeFish]

Is a triangle dodge ever really the best decision? Unless it's your only option to avoid getting hit in a dire situation, I can't think of when it'd really be useful.

 

[Praxis]

I'm interested in the up-throw to air side-b. I wonder if thats actually a thing.

It actually works on fast fallers but I didn't find it to be a particularly great option in general.

The trick is to do the side B a little earlier than you'd expect- Diddy's grab box reaches a little above his body.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

It actually works on fast fallers but I didn't find it to be a particularly great option in general.

The trick is to do the side B a little earlier than you'd expect- Diddy's grab box reaches a little above his body.

On characters like DDD snake sonic sheik bowser slopo etc it all varies, you have to memorize their weight and fall speed to know how hi to allow the jump. Don't do this on Luigi ever but aside from that it works on alot of the cast. The characters it becomes risky on were Mario Luigi marth and that was about it, aside that it can lead to another grab on a platform for a repeat or a down air. You have to experiment with it because you have to jump pretty fast out of it, wish I had video equipment but I don't right now. Also a triangle dodge is better than eating a side b from squirtle near the edge,(cause his unfair is quick and hits like a truck) this gives you stage position for neutral and can catch the squirtle off guard and send them off stage for you to setup.

 

[DeFish]

Basically, if samus is shooting missles from a distance, glide toss forward toss forward. Banana clanks and goes in the air. Jump up and instant agt it, tossing toward samus and gliding in what ever direction you need for the spacing/situation. Agt forwards covers a lot of ground if youre geting camped.

This is probably going to be the key to the Samus/Link MU, and may help to turn a lot of projectile based MUs in Diddy's favor. Did Diddy's bananas give him all of these options in Brawl, or is it largely the product of the PM engine?

In an unrelated note, do you guys think it's worth going back to learn some of the Brawl banana techniques? If so, are there any to focus on in particular?

 

[Praxis]

This is probably going to be the key to the Samus/Link MU, and may help to turn a lot of projectile based MUs in Diddy's favor. Did Diddy's bananas give him all of these options in Brawl, or is it largely the product of the PM engine?

In an unrelated note, do you guys think it's worth going back to learn some of the Brawl banana techniques? If so, are there any to focus on in particular?

Stuff like single naner locks and two naner locks don't work because of banana teching. Just make sure you can glide toss, AGT, and dribble (mostly just as a practice of glide tossing). The more important thing to learn from Brawl is naner spacing. This part is pretty similar from Brawl to PM; you need to learn exactly how placing a banana in such and such spot affects your opponent's actions and options. Learn banana logic.

Also, I think people forget a lot that you can perform any of your normal aerials while holding a banana as long as you press Z right before (like fair, bair, etc) because pressing Z drops the naner without any lag or negative effect on your character. Sadly, you can no longer catch naners with aerials like in Brawl, where it was possible to press Z the frame before you did any aerial and the aerial would recatch the banana.

 

[batistabus]

Diddy with by far the worst alt costumes in the game. Pls buff.

 

[Praxis]

Diddy with by far the worst alt costumes in the game. Pls buff.

Dixie Kong, Tiny Kong, and Donkey Kong Jr plz!