Is snake really broken?

[Gindler]

I've been hearing alot of people say snakes broken recently and I can't seem to figure out why (whenever i play one they seem to only have 1 kill move, utilt of course). But yeah I was just wondering what snake mains think about that accusation and how they deal with it.

 

[Cecilanius]

Well, Snake isn't broken.

What I do about it? I tell people to stop crying about Snake and find a way to counter Snake rather than being lazy and make excuses all day long.

I don't do it in a happy manner either.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

I agree with and say what Cecil says to other people. It can get annoying after a while with all the people bashing your character though.

 

[T*H*O*R]

Fvck the people who say that. Chances are they suck harder than the Snake player they are playing against and that's why they are losing so badly or so frequently that they resorted to b!tching about how "broken" Snake is and how he ruins the balance of the game.

 

[Gishnak]

He's not broken. He's just unbalanced.

 

[ynnek123]

He's not broken. He's just unbalanced.

Isn't that basically the same thing? xD

but yeah, I didn't even play brawl and I think that snake is pretty "unbalanced". don't flame me for being on this boards as i hate snake

 

[Kiyosuki]

Snake's not broken per say, but he has a lot of options so his top tier status is pretty well deserved. He does have some learning curve though and he can be beaten if the player isn't putting some effort or brains into it as it should be.

People around fighting games (or fighting games and Smash if you're one of those anal people) throw the word broken around a lot in a paranoid way. Broken is probably the most extreme tag to put on a character. It means the character is almost unbeatable aside from maybe a handful of others or the character itself (this is assuming the player using it isn't being an idiot) and even newbs who have never touched the character before can easilly give even experienced people trouble. Like Zero and Geese in SvsC:Chaos were mad broken. Heihachi in Tekken 5 (the first version) had this like, 3 hit combo that a 5 year old could do and it took a ton of life, and it had no recovery or startup lag and it was fast as hell. That's broken. Snake's just really really good. He's flexible and has the durability to make it work in a ton of situations but he's not unbeatable.

I gotta admit that f-tilt and the amount of flexibility his jabs and grenade shielding has tips the scales a bit but I don't think it's enough to warrant the broken alarm myself.

 

[indianunit]

Here's some food for thought.

If snake was really broken couldn't noobs pick him up and start winning matches with no problem?

If snake was "broken" then shouldn't every snake main win every battle?

I thought not.

 

[Negative Zero]

As with any term, it's been said so much that it has lost its effect. The true meaning of broken Snake is not. However, if you just consider broken to mean really good, then Snake is. He's really really good.

 

[Cat Fight]

Noooooo.

He's not broken. Just painfully better than 80% of the cast.

 

[deatscythe6]

Nah, Snake is never broken, just a powerful strategy-based character. Just like in his games he emphasizes tactics over shoot shoot, smash smash gameplay. When people actually learn to do this with other characters instead of smash smash smashing the crap out of everything, maybe Snake wouldn't beat them sooooooooooo much as they say and wouldn't seem sooooooooo broken. (tired of that word at this point).

 

[Blistering Speed]

Snake is the closest thing smash has to broken, but he's still not.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Snake's not broken per say, but he has a lot of options so his top tier status is pretty well deserved. He does have some learning curve though and he can be beaten if the player isn't putting some effort or brains into it as it should be.

People around fighting games (or fighting games and Smash if you're one of those anal people) throw the word broken around a lot in a paranoid way. Broken is probably the most extreme tag to put on a character. It means the character is almost unbeatable aside from maybe a handful of others or the character itself (this is assuming the player using it isn't being an idiot) and even newbs who have never touched the character before can easilly give even experienced people trouble. Heihachi in Tekken 5 (the first version) had this like, 3 hit combo that a 5 year old could do and it took a ton of life, and it had no recovery or startup lag and it was fast as hell. That's broken. Snake's just really really good. He's flexible and has the durability to make it work in a ton of situations but he's not unbeatable.

I gotta admit that f-tilt and the amount of flexibility his jabs and grenade shielding has tips the scales a bit but I don't think it's enough to warrant the broken alarm myself.

Yes. broken is a term that gets thrown around alot and it is losing meaning, but look at your definition. In a tournament setting, snake is practically unbeatable with the exception of a few characters. but he can be beaten if you do put the thought and effort into it you can beat him, but at the same time, if your going toe to toe with a snake chances are that your analyzing the game and trying much more than snake is. and about the noobs and experienced player thing. that EXACT situation happened at my last biweekly, the one snake main in my area took 3rd place, and in the friendlys after the tournament, some scrub that we taught for 15miin on how to play snake either beat him or came really close to it. no he wasnt playing snake at the time, but the point still remains

Here's some food for thought.

If snake was really broken couldn't noobs pick him up and start winning matches with no problem?

If snake was "broken" then shouldn't every snake main win every battle?

I thought so.

Fixed
both of those things are pretty GD close to happening, see above example

As with any term, it's been said so much that it has lost its effect. The true meaning of broken Snake is not. However, if you just consider broken to mean really good, then Snake is. He's really really good.

the first and 3rd sentances are all truth. the second i might have to disagree with.

Noooooo.

He's not broken. Just painfully better than 80% of the cast.

That sounds like a contradiction to me.

Nah, Snake is never broken, just a powerful strategy-based character. Just like in his games he emphasizes tactics over shoot shoot, smash smash gameplay. When people actually learn to do this with other characters instead of smash smash smashing the crap out of everything, maybe Snake wouldn't beat them sooooooooooo much as they say and wouldn't seem sooooooooo broken. (tired of that word at this point).

all in all, he is incredibly versatile and does he have any true counters? my opinion on this matter changes everyday but he is at the line, just thinking about whether to cross it or not. so at this point i cant really pass judgement

 

[PK Hexagon]

I wonder if I'm the only one who considers Meta Knight more unbalanced than Snake.

 

[bman in 2288]

Metaknight? All he is is "lol easy papercuts!" Very few reliable kill moves. And ridiculously light.

 

[Amide]

He's not broken, but he's pretty close. At least Snake takes skill, so it wouldn't matter much anyway. The fact that Snake is good with just tilts is pretty annoying though.

 

[napZzz]

No hes not broken, but meta knight is btw

 

[PK Hexagon]

Metaknight? All he is is "lol easy papercuts!" Very few reliable kill moves.

Lol. What is this, the last week of March? People still think this?

 

[Kiyosuki]

Yes. broken is a term that gets thrown around alot and it is losing meaning, but look at your definition. In a tournament setting, snake is practically unbeatable with the exception of a few characters. but he can be beaten if you do put the thought and effort into it you can beat him, but at the same time, if your going toe to toe with a snake chances are that your analyzing the game and trying much more than snake is. and about the noobs and experienced player thing. that EXACT situation happened at my last biweekly, the one snake main in my area took 3rd place, and in the friendlys after the tournament, some scrub that we taught for 15miin on how to play snake either beat him or came really close to it. no he wasnt playing snake at the time, but the point still remains

Well I think the character this third was using does actually matter but anyways.

He may borderline but I still don't think he's broken compared to some of the characters I've seen over time. It sounds anal but the key difference is that he's even decently beatable to begin with. I've seen Meta Knights, Dededes, Marths, and a Wario beat some pretty good Snakes. If Snake was broken that wouldn't be possible. I'm talking less than a handful of characters could stand a chance against a bonafide broken character and even then its iffy.

It was mentioned above and there is actually a difference between unbalanced and broken. If they truly were the same, almost every high-tier to top-tier in any game ever would be broken because reality is, 8 times out of 10 those characters are high to top because they have an unbalanced advantage...even if it's slight. By the book definition, for a character to be broken they have to have some ridiculously extreme advantage over the rest. I'm talking eclipsingly good, not even the characters that supposedly do well against Snake in this as of now would even apply if he was. Broken is the highest form of unbalanced, I can't stress enough how extreme a tag it is to put on a character. That would mean the character basically has to be banned.

Snake definitely has a lot of serious balance issues but he's not broken. Like someone said I guess broken as been used as such a cheap word that if it just means unbalanced then I guess he is broken by those terms, but strictly speaking he's not broken. Maybe I'm biased because broken is such a cheap word people use to excuse any dip of luck they have nowadays but I'm sticking to that.

 

[Cat Fight]

That sounds like a contradiction to me.

*slaps forehead*

Just 'cause he's better than most of the cast means his broken? What...?

Reminds me of what people would say about Itachi in Naruto GNT4. (rolls eyes)

 

[Kalm]

Snake has a ton of different ways to attack. You have to focus and think every step to beat him. He does have a hard time against projectiles, a very hard time. His recovery can be gimped beyond repair.

Snake just requires a ton of wits to play and beat.

Meta Knight however, can use pretty much whatever he wants whenever he wants and not get punished. I've exploited weaknesses when fighting Snake before. To this day though, I have never layed single blow on Meta Knight due to some kind of opening in his abilities. The only time I ever hit Meta Knight in any way is when the player makes an evident mistake.

Even then, Meta Knight blocks mistakes. Ever seen a Meta Knight screw up his gliding and fly up under the lip of FD? Ever see him still retain his remaining jumps afterwards and not die from recovery fail no matter what ever?

Meta Knight is too close to broken for comfort.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

One thing I'm starting to recognize lately.

Casual players/n00bs seem to see MK as Broken

Competitive players seem to see Snake as broken.

?

 

[PK Hexagon]

One thing I'm starting to recognize lately.

Casual players/n00bs seem to see MK as Broken

Competitive players seem to see Snake as broken.

?

Skill is probably the barrier. Meta Knight's competitive ceiling isn't as high as Snake's, so any casual player interested in becoming versed in MK won't have as hard a time as vice versa with Snake. Because of that, it would become easier to **** your (scrub) friends with Meta Knight. The first time a lot of casuals pick up Snake they immediately dislike him because of his slow speed, seemingly poor recovery and non-spamable projectile.

Competitive players are used to seeing Snake used at a higher potential, thus the broken tag.

 

[BrawlBro]

honestly I dont think snakes broken at all, I dont even think hes that imbalanced anymore. You just have to learn to fight him since hes so different than other characters.

It also probably helps since I use diddy, nanners own ftilt spamz, and snakes recovery is spike bait.

 

[Kalm]

One thing I'm starting to recognize lately.

Casual players/n00bs seem to see MK as Broken

Competitive players seem to see Snake as broken.

?

Well I'm far from casual and I'm no noob. However, all of my experiences against skilled Meta Knights have been online in comparison to Snake.

All the noobs and pros are entitled to their own opinion. If the online factor is something more to consider when against Meta Knight, I can accept that to an extent.

So, until I get a chance to fight an good offline Meta Knight, he is cheap to the max extreme brokesauce deluxe cakes.

 

[StoleUrCar]

This horse has been beaten to death. Then resurrected. Then killed again...and then some. -.-

 

[Cat Fight]

Phoenix down!

 

[rathy Aro]

I get beat by a really noob snake all the time. >.> I used to do fairly well until he found out what a tilt was. After that it was over... I do suck at the game, but he doesn't even have it. He's going off of snakes unbalancedness (can I just say brokenness?). I've also beaten a really good toon link w/ my DDD, but get 2 stocked by this noob snake. I hate him soooo much. T.T

Join the campaign for snake tilts ban. Slogan: not quite an infinite... those take more than one button...

 

[Negative Zero]

A lot of that is just Brawl innately. I was nearly beaten by someone playing Ike, having only played the game for about an hour before, and I think of myself as a pretty good smasher. Basically, in Brawl, the more skilled player still wins more often, but not as much as in Melee. While a much more skilled player in Melee might win 9/10 times, the much more skilled player in Brawl might only win 7/10 of the time. It's not just tripping.

If you absolutely must beat Snake, start playing ROB. Everyone hates a campy ROB, but everyone loves a winner.

 

[Cecilanius]

I get beat by a really noob snake all the time. >.> I used to do fairly well until he found out what a tilt was. After that it was over... I do suck at the game, but he doesn't even have it. He's going off of snakes unbalancedness (can I just say brokenness?). I've also beaten a really good toon link w/ my DDD, but get 2 stocked by this noob snake. I hate him soooo much. T.T

Join the campaign for snake tilts ban. Slogan: not quite an infinite... those take more than one button...

OK, listen. That last part of your post was probably one of the dumbest things I've read in a while.

Who cares if he beats you? I didn't even have melee for five years and I still beat my friend all the time. I used to play Ganondorf and the only time I could play was when I was over his house. I didn't even play frequently. You don't have to be bad just because you haven't played much. I'm just better at games, I guess. I was more familiar to control and speed because of past experience with controllers.

Oh hey, I have an idea...why don't you use different tactics to face the Snake. Find your own way of countering him. Do some research! Do something! I HATE seeing this type of mentality in people's posts.

He's only unbalanced in YOUR mind. I guarantee that if you just practice and think of a way to fight him rather than complaining all of the time, you can beat anyone. People only believe in this crap because they aren't trying enough.

The way you fight Toon Link is so~ much different than fighthing Snake. Don't fight each the same way.

...

I actually have a lot of trouble now because my friend was determined enough to main Ness and find a way to counter my Snake. He really knows how to get me nervous. I guarantee that no one would think of Ness as a counter of Snake because they are just looking at tiers. Tiers are just an easy way out of working hard. Kind of reminds me of how our society is running at the moment...I hate it so much. People just finding the easy way out....

"OH! This person is low on the tier list! He can't beat the person on top!"
People are just being lazy and choosing this. They aren't even trying to find a way to counter.

Don't listen to Negative Zero about switching characters. It isn't necassary. If you just practice and just fight against Snake frequently, and if you just try out your own fighting techniques, and you just commit to getting better at the game, you will get better. You can beat whoever you want having a good mentality. Don't give up and don't worry about the current circumstances. The way you are thinking right now is your downfall.

Don't worry about what people say. Play like you can achieve anything over anyone else.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Snake isnt broken just really good. The only time hes ever broken is when Chuck norris is at the controller.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Wait a minute.....Online?


MK is retardedly powerful up the wazoo broken online thanks to that split second button delay screwing over your timing on his already hard to dodge attacks..


Another reason why Online is a failure in terms of trying to determine skill.

 

[Master Raven]

I'm tired of people complaining about X Brawl character being broken.

My only complaint with Snake are the invisible hitboxes in his Ftilt and Utilts. Other than that I have little problem with him since, y'know, I actually put effort into fighting them.

 

[Gindler]

MKs balance: He's light as crap, yoshi's Uair kills him at like 90 so yeah. He definetly is balanced out by that.

Snakes balance: most of his aerials are horrible (I'm sure even snake mains will agree, besides the pwnage Bair even I love that), he's slow, uber predictable spikeable recovery (if you use a character with a decent spike)

 

[mr_kennedy44]

I get beat by a really noob snake all the time. >.> I used to do fairly well until he found out what a tilt was. After that it was over... I do suck at the game, but he doesn't even have it. He's going off of snakes unbalancedness (can I just say brokenness?). I've also beaten a really good toon link w/ my DDD, but get 2 stocked by this noob snake. I hate him soooo much. T.T

Join the campaign for snake tilts ban. Slogan: not quite an infinite... those take more than one button...

If you keep losing due to Snake's tilts then maybe you should try to figure out a way to counter them instead of complaining on here. I'm going to assume you main King Dedede judging by the DDD head under your name. DDD has lots of options he can do to get through Snake's tilts you just have to practice.

I'm tired of people complaining about X Brawl character being broken.

My only complaint with Snake are the invisible hitboxes in his Ftilt and Utilts. Other than that I have little problem with him since, y'know, I actually put effort into fighting them.

Last time I checked f-tilt didn't have an invisible hitbox. Only u-tilt did.

EDIT: Ok I just checked again found out that f-tilt's second hit indeed does have an invisible hitbox.

 

[Ares_Omega]

MK gimps like a god and that shuttle loop kills easily. He is not just papercuts.

 

[Kiyosuki]

MKs balance: He's light as crap, yoshi's Uair kills him at like 90 so yeah. He definetly is balanced out by that.

Snakes balance: most of his aerials are horrible (I'm sure even snake mains will agree, besides the pwnage Bair even I love that), he's slow, uber predictable spikeable recovery (if you use a character with a decent spike)

Up air and his neutral A in the air are actually pretty **** good I think.

 

[Glick]

I actually think playing snake is really fun. I really don't mind playing a snake at all. The traps put a lot of strategy and mind games that aren't usually in smash. However, getting spamed in tournys and beaten because of snakes horribly mean advantage is not so nice.

 

[old king coal]

broken and "the best" mean 2 completly different things

 

[Gindler]

Up air and his neutral A in the air are actually pretty **** good I think.

true I've been hit by Uair once and Nair (never the final hit though) a few times, but if I played snake I'd probably just go Bair like every time i'm in the air.