Is snake really broken?

[Kiyosuki]

What I do with neutral A is simply roll my thumb from X to A. This causes Snake to jump and do the attack at almost the exact same time so he performs the full neutral attack including the final hit with one single jump. It's a great defensive and semi offensive move since if the other guy gets hit by one of the kicks they'll get hit by all of them including the final (unless you're too close and going in a direction that makes it miss) I've seen others using this quite a bit.

Plus all his aerials are pretty easy to do that ISJR trick with. I like to mix neutral A and down A with it from time to time.

 

[Cat Fight]

Snakes balance: most of his aerials are horrible (I'm sure even snake mains will agree, besides the pwnage Bair even I love that), he's slow, uber predictable spikeable recovery (if you use a character with a decent spike)

40% isn't "most". Although fair and dair aren't competing for the best aerials spot, they do have their uses.

Dair off ledge hop to pressure shields and retreat to the ledge is pretty good.

Simply running off the stage (without a jump) and fairing I've found is pretty useful. Spiking my friend's DK 70% of the time I've tried it. I must admit I don't like fair that much.

All the opportunities I have to use fair I'd rather use nair, though.

For instance, when yr opponent is on a small platform above you on Lylat Cruise or Battlefield it's relatively easy to knock them off with a nair and follow up with a jab > utilt/ftilt or predicting their tech toward you and fsmashing.

Now, it seems that everytime I fair in the same situation the chance of my opponent falling off the platform is a bit higher. Why? I have no idea. Maybe the knockback on shields is stronger, or maybe just because the kick itself is hard to perfect shield.

Uair is pretty solid still.

Either way, "most" of his aerials aren't "bad" per se. Just dair and fair. :"P

Plus all his aerials are pretty easy to do that ISJR trick with. I like to mix neutral A and down A with it from time to time.

**** it... someone needs to teach me how to ISJR all of the time. :"{

 

[xDarkElement]

Haha go try his utilt, its hitbox goes out of range. I mean ftilt + the jab combos are extremely fast.
mortar sliding?? how come other characters dont have it. snake is broken :D

 

[Cat Fight]

Haha go try his utilt, its hitbox goes out of range. I mean ftilt + the jab combos are extremely fast.
mortar sliding?? how come other characters dont have it. snake is broken :D

Other chars do have it. It's called a sliding upsmash. -_______-;

 

[Cecilanius]

Haha go try his utilt, its hitbox goes out of range. I mean ftilt + the jab combos are extremely fast.
mortar sliding?? how come other characters dont have it. snake is broken :D

Other characters do have it. Falco has one that apparently you don't know about.

 

[StoleUrCar]

Plus all his aerials are pretty easy to do that ISJR trick with. I like to mix neutral A and down A with it from time to time.

Show me a vid where you can do more than 2 nairs attempting to ISJR and I'll believe it. Because 2 nairs is not infinite, thats just using your 2nd jump -.-. I've seen the bair video yea, but besides bair that's it. It's also pretty impractical in the first place, Snake is most vulnerable in the air and spamming ISJR'd aerials is easily predictable and the opponent has a window of attack when you're falling.

 

[-Steed-]

No, snake isnt broken. He has disadvantages like any other character, for example:
Easily gimped recovery
Very slow f smash
Very hard to learn how to use mines, c4 and grenades effectively
Slow aerials that are usually quite predictable
Slow running speed
If you miss the nikita you are open to attack for a second or two after you drop it

Etc

 

[Cat Fight]

Show me a vid where you can do more than 2 nairs attempting to ISJR and I'll believe it. Because 2 nairs is not infinite, thats just using your 2nd jump -.-. I've seen the bair video yea, but besides bair that's it. It's also pretty impractical in the first place, Snake is most vulnerable in the air and spamming ISJR'd aerials is easily predictable and the opponent has a window of attack when you're falling.

Being able to infinitely scale Battlefield with bairs and nairs is always a good thing IMO.

No, snake isnt broken. He has disadvantages like any other character, for example:
Easily gimped recovery
Very slow f smash
Very hard to learn how to use mines, c4 and grenades effectively
Slow aerials that are usually quite predictable
Slow running speed
If you miss the nikita you are open to attack for a second or two after you drop it

Etc

-___-;

I wouldn't say have slow moves is that much of a disadvantage. He has plenty of quick ones that you can intertwine while setting up for his Fsmash or other slow attack (he really doesn't have many...)

His bair, nair, and uair are far from slow. They all come out pretty much instantly. His fair is really the only slow move he has besides nikita and fsmash.

And slow running speed is definitely not a disadvantage. I'm usually walking around the stage, not running. That's just how Snake is... He's always sneaking.

As for the nikita, well, bair to retreating nikita is pretty effect in setting up a wall to keep yr opponent away from you. I mean, the only time I can see nikita being punished is if yr using it close-range.

And just because it may a difficult learning curve as to how to effectively use C4, claymores, and grenades doesn't put Snake as a character at a disadvantage, just the player.

Perhaps you should check out the grenade cooking thread and get a few ideas for how you should be using them and what-not: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165922

 

[-Steed-]

And perhaps I shouldn't?
And I am only stating snake isnt just a completely broken character.
He has his faults and is difficult to master.
I am not going to take any notice of the above post, I am entitled to my own opinion.
And if the player is at a disadvantage, that means that at that time, the character they are using is at a disadvantage against their opponent.
Call it something different if you like, like a difficulty, a fault, whatever takes your fancy.

 

[Cat Fight]

And perhaps I shouldn't?
And I am only stating snake isnt just a completely broken character.
He has his faults and is difficult to master.
I am not going to take any notice of the above post, I am entitled to my own opinion.

If you don't know anything about the character than why are you posting in this topic?

 

[Gursalug]

I don't care to use Snake, but I can agree with Snake mainers that it's annoying as hell to have people degrade your choice of character.

"You only win because you use Snake! He's unbalanced and cheap, and his utilt is god tier...blah blah blah, leaky vag, blah blah blah"


...no. People obviously win with Snake because they're just good. As a Ness mainer, I've beat the everliving piss out of Snake players many times and had the floor mopped up with my *** others. It's all in the player, not the character...but this is obvious common sense, right? People need to stop Johnning and suck it up when they lose.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Show me a vid where you can do more than 2 nairs attempting to ISJR and I'll believe it. Because 2 nairs is not infinite, thats just using your 2nd jump -.-. I've seen the bair video yea, but besides bair that's it. It's also pretty impractical in the first place, Snake is most vulnerable in the air and spamming ISJR'd aerials is easily predictable and the opponent has a window of attack when you're falling.

Well I never said I spam it, I just do it once in a while. I don't see why anyone would want to do more than two but...well since you want specifics sometimes I like to come in doing a second jumped neutral, then doing SJR the moment I hit the ground and do down air above a character and taller characters have a chance to be caught in it. I guess it's using SJR rather than ISJR though sometimes I may do a third jump just as a mix up. It's not an incredible or pro tactic or anything abuseable but it's something I mix in there once in a while to be a little more unpredictable.

ALso I'm not sure if you meant it's not possible to do more than two neutrals with ISJR in a row or not or if it's just plain impractical in general. If the former I have done it before it's not really hard. You just have to do the nair with the second jump at almost the same time, I do that thumb rolling thing I said above from x to a and usually it ends in time for me to press jump right before I hit the ground to get the thing to work.

If it's the latter then yeah, it is impractical obviously I don't know why anyone would want to do infinite nairs only forever. Anyways I was more just making a note that all his aerials except bair arn't horrible. I mean...up air at least is just bair pointed upwards, I don't see how that's useless.

If that last hit didn't hit you away though it'd be a different story, but Snake doesn't need another ridiculously powerful tactic.

 

[Kalm]

To tell you the truth...

Even though these two things don't just make Snake into wtf godliness. I think everyone, including the snake mainers, have to admit that Snakes F and U tilt are not right. I mean, the strength of the two attacks are one thing, but those attacks, especially the Utilt, had insane range. From the amount of invisible forward horizontal range he gets from that attacks you would thing they'd at least make the sprite match the hitbox.

Right now Utilt gives you extra invisbile range, and Utilt gives even more of that. It just doesn't make any sense, it's like wtf Sakurai were you trying to make Snake broken!?

Well, with that being said Ftilt is close and Utilt really does seem to be broken. I really do think that Utilt is pretty much just broken. Still though, it takes more than one broken ability to make a character godlike. That's why I don't john about Snake that much.

 

[Kiyosuki]

You'd have to be plain delusional to not see that up tilt's range is a little funny, forget just Snake mainers.

Unless the area in front of him hitting you is supposed to be his manly aura crushing you, or his sweat which can kill anything within a 50 meter radius because he's Snake. Otherwise it's hard for anyone to really contest that it's a questionably balanced move.

 

[iMeeHow]

Yea Snakes Ftilt isnt amazingly strong but it is strong and wtf 21 dmg and it has so much range.
His utlit also has a stupid hitbox and has crazy knock back.
Other then that i think snake takes alot of skill to actually use

 

[FrostByte]

Utilt is actually snake hitting you with his balls. Of course, nintendo had to censor it out by making it invisible.

 

[Edds]

uptilt spam all day long

 

[xDarkElement]

Other characters do have it. Falco has one that apparently you don't know about.

Uh, you have to meet contact with it too for falco.
Snakes mortal slide hits you on the dash and his usmash is way better than anyone elses.

 

[Snake's On A Plane]

Snake's abilities take skill to utilize. His c4, mines, grenades and nikiti take perfect timing to be effective. When people complain about Snake being an "unfair" player and "broken" I jus ask them to try to use snake, why complain when you can use him too! Oh, its because you dont have the skills or patience to use him. Therefore, you shouldn't be complaining about how "broken" he is. (not directed towards anyone in particular)

 

[Cecilanius]

Uh, you have to meet contact with it too for falco.
Snakes mortal slide hits you on the dash and his usmash is way better than anyone elses.

Woops, I thought you meant either contact or non-contact.

Snake's abilities take skill to utilize. His c4, mines, grenades and nikiti take perfect timing to be effective. When people complain about Snake being an "unfair" player and "broken" I jus ask them to try to use snake, why complain when you can use him too! Oh, its because you dont have the skills or patience to use him. Therefore, you shouldn't be complaining about how "broken" he is. (not directed towards anyone in particular)

*salutes*

------------------

Like I say in every thread where someone whines about Snake, stop being lazy and learn to fight Snake. It just makes you sound stupid to complain about something that you can do something about.

 

[Toneh]

haha snakes a beast in brawl and fun to use! Also, platform levels let him excel really good too bc of the c4 hitting above and below :D

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

It doesn't matter how hard a character is to use, it comes down to what they're capable of at their greatest possible potential.

Crazy hitboxes aside, Snake does have some vulnerabilities to quite a lot of cheesy stuff.

Lucario can force palm chain grab snake up to 90% at the start of a stock, drop him over the edge with a grab and pummel, then attempt to gimp his recovery from there.

Wario can go right off the stage and eat snake's Cypher.

Ness has quite a few ways which he can annoy snake using PK thunder and his good pressure game.

and I'm sure there are others.

Now people complain about Ftilt and Utilt the most, but these attacks really don't seem completely safe to me. Unlike Metaknight's swashbuckling sword swings, he does have lag at the end of these moves, and they CAN be punished, especially if you're playing a character with a fast dodge roll.

The mortar slide is annoying it's true, but I think it's nothing compared to Pikachu's QUACK madness.

Snake is a fantastic edgeguarder, but for the most part, he is incredibly easy to edgeguard himself. All you have to do is get him to use the cypher off stage, and repeatedly knock him away until he's close enough to grab. Easier said than done, but his recovery is still a very exploitable weakness.

And of course: all of snake's grenades and mines effect him as well as the opponent. Reflecting grenades actually can be quite useful since as far as I know, he can't use the neo trick to effect reflected grenades. I've also managed to grenade counter a snake using his own grenades, although that doesn't happen often against good snake players.

Basically, rather than complaining about how broken Snake is, go out and actually learn to play him yourself. That way, you'll figure out how to beat him because you have an understanding of the character and all the tricks that he uses, as well as being able to use some of his own techniques against him.

 

[Blad01]

No, Snake is not broken. I love to beat Snakes, it's so goood :D

 

[Uffe]

Here's some food for thought.

If snake was really broken couldn't noobs pick him up and start winning matches with no problem?

If snake was "broken" then shouldn't every snake main win every battle?

I thought not.

Good comeback. If any character is broken, and I'm not sorry if I offend anyone, I'd have to say it is Marth, Ike, Meta Knight and Lucas. Those characters practically take no effort to play as. I tried every character in the game and if anything I'd say Snake is a very awkward and hard character to play as. Just because his A, A, A and I guess f-tilt has great knock back doesn't mean he's an easy character to play as.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Good comeback. If any character is broken, and I'm not sorry if I offend anyone, I'd have to say it is Marth, Ike, Meta Knight and Lucas. Those characters practically take no effort to play as. I tried every character in the game and if anything I'd say Snake is a very awkward and hard character to play as. Just because his A, A, A and I guess f-tilt has great knock back doesn't mean he's an easy character to play as.

Mmmm that's prett silly logic to sound the broken alarm. Ease of use alone doesn't constitute a broken character either.

I guess Marth and Meta Knight though have some questionably balanced aspects to them too, but I have no idea how Ike and Lucas could ever be considered broken by anyone.

 

[3transfat]

If you want to be picky about the definition of broken, no.

But he is. His tilts have incredible range (watch today's replay for evidence), his smashes are powerful, he is heavy, he has good recovery, he has all of those explosives, he has his mortar slide and both his fair and box spike.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

Marth is certainly not broken. He is quite balanced actually. Decent range, decent K.O. moves, sub-par recovery and somewhat light.

G&W is the character I consider to be the most broken. He is very light but has the K.O. potential that Snake and other heavies have. Fast, high priority attacks, fantastic recovery and surprising good range. G&W can win by spamming the turtle which I think is the most broken move in the game. It eats shields, hits multiple times, good damage, has little lag and is very safe to throw out due to its range.

 

[Gindler]

If you want to be picky about the definition of broken, no.

But he is. His tilts have incredible range (watch today's replay for evidence), his smashes are powerful, he is heavy, he has good recovery, he has all of those explosives, he has his mortar slide and both his fair and box spike.

True, i still don't get why some of snakes attacks hurt him. Grenade, C4 and mine. But shouldn't his mortar and rikita hurt him too? I think he's the only character with explosive that don't hurt him, of course his Usmash would be next to useless if it hurt him. hmmm I think it's safest to say that he's not broken just heavy with fast powerful attacks, good projectiles, good recovery (super armor? I thought yoshi would be alone on that one again ), looking just plain awesome, I'd have to say his biggest down side is that all of his taunts are the same so that's pretty lame.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Good comeback. If any character is broken, and I'm not sorry if I offend anyone, I'd have to say it is Marth, Ike, Meta Knight and Lucas. Those characters practically take no effort to play as. I tried every character in the game and if anything I'd say Snake is a very awkward and hard character to play as. Just because his A, A, A and I guess f-tilt has great knock back doesn't mean he's an easy character to play as.

Offend someone with what? Idiotic claims that Ike and Lucas are broken characters? You're more likely to get laughed at than offend someone.

 

[parisite]

this is the perfect example why i use wario now (which people are complaining about him too)

 

[Snake's On A Plane]

True, i still don't get why some of snakes attacks hurt him. Grenade, C4 and mine. But shouldn't his mortar and rikita hurt him too? I think he's the only character with explosive that don't hurt him, of course his Usmash would be next to useless if it hurt him. hmmm I think it's safest to say that he's not broken just heavy with fast powerful attacks, good projectiles, good recovery (super armor? I thought yoshi would be alone on that one again ), looking just plain awesome, I'd have to say his biggest down side is that all of his taunts are the same so that's pretty lame.

But his taunts are the only ones that can actually damage opponents, and even have a lot of stun

 

[Browny]

Marth is certainly not broken. He is quite balanced actually. Decent range, decent K.O. moves, sub-par recovery and somewhat light.

G&W is the character I consider to be the most broken. He is very light but has the K.O. potential that Snake and other heavies have. Fast, high priority attacks, fantastic recovery and surprising good range. G&W can win by spamming the turtle which I think is the most broken move in the game. It eats shields, hits multiple times, good damage, has little lag and is very safe to throw out due to its range.

QFTx9000

The fact that G&W users deny he is broken beyond belief, while having the audacity to whinge about snake, mk etc makes me sick. when any random noob can win a match by spamming 1 move the entire game, and 1 to KO with, something is wrong. only thing broken about snake is his ftilt. everything else i can live with. he needs his utilt to make up for his very situational smash attacks and unreliable aerials

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

But his taunts are the only ones that can actually damage opponents, and even have a lot of stun

Luigi would like to have a word with you.

Think of it this way: While a lot of characters have attacks that aren't used because they're obsolete compared to the rest of their moveset (like, Lucas has PK Freeze), Snake just... doesn't. I can't think of a single move in Snake's arsenal that you would never use. They ALL have some good functionality to them. Smashes, jabs, aerials, TILTS, specials...

 

[Kiyosuki]

True, i still don't get why some of snakes attacks hurt him. Grenade, C4 and mine. But shouldn't his mortar and rikita hurt him too? I think he's the only character with explosive that don't hurt him, of course his Usmash would be next to useless if it hurt him. hmmm I think it's safest to say that he's not broken just heavy with fast powerful attacks, good projectiles, good recovery (super armor? I thought yoshi would be alone on that one again ), looking just plain awesome, I'd have to say his biggest down side is that all of his taunts are the same so that's pretty lame.

Yeah if his mortar hurt himself too his up smash would essentially be a suicidal move to use 7 times out of 10 so that's understandable. I think that particular move is fine. I guess the ones that do hurt him do so in order to make the mine/grenade game more interesting.

 

[SmashBro99]

Not at all, pop him in the air and **** him, easy.

 

[Gindler]

But his taunts are the only ones that can actually damage opponents, and even have a lot of stun

Well I will admit, box spikes are sexy.

 

[RoboticSithDrone]

To anyone claiming GW is broken: Tell that to any of the ones I've faced with my Olimar

Also, Snake is certainly NOT broken. He's perfectly beatable, and any character with at least one (or more than that, in Snake's case) reliable counter is by definition NOT broken.

 

[M@v]

I dont mind playing against snakes. In fact, I usually do well against them. But I do believe he has several broken characteristics. The main ones are the Ftilt and Utilt, not because of their power, but their range. They can hit people that they are not even TOUCHING. Another thing is his recovery. Its not bad, but Super armor frames on almost the whole thing? Thats basically giving the finger to edgeguarders. His projectiles are good, but by no means broken. You can throw grenades back, and the missles slow. The last thing I think is broken about snake is his weight. There is no way he should be as heavy as he his. "He got all that equipment on". Hes about as heavy, if not heavier, than link. Characters of that weight , on the most part,have recoveries that leave much to be desired. No not snake. The only weakness of the recovery is that its prone to getting stuck under FD.

 

[cj.Shark]

who says hes not broken. if not broken he is arguably the best character in the game. the only other character that comes close (metaknight) just gets ***** by snakes. Yes any character can beat any character but so what? that doesnt change the fact that A) snake has probably the best kill moves in the game. B) his UpB has super armor, and for alot of characters is almost ungimpable. C) hes one of the heaviest characters in the game (which isnt a problem anymore because of all the great recoveries everyone has now) D) mortar slide gives him a extremely good approach and helps him move around fast.

I play pit and sure i can beat snakes. all it takes is a whole game of shooting arrows (note if you shoot snake while hes holding a nade he will either a) get hit and drop it b) shield and drop it. then proceed to bend the arrow to hit the nade. but anyway sure you can beat snake. but if you do your gonna hear alot of whining like "omg all you do is shoot arrows". snake has weaknesses but they are alot more subtle then most of the cast.

 

[Airwalkerr]

But his taunts are the only ones that can actually damage opponents, and even have a lot of stun

your forgettin about Luigi, dawg, and his down taunt of doom.