Yes, and so I responded to your tripping hate. That's how topics work. You say something, I respond, etc. Now please stop it so that when InArby gets back tomorrow I can have an INTELLIGENT discussion with someone who doesn't ***** about tripping and doesn't ***** about a character he likes not being any good in Brawl. Guess what? I like Jigglypuff, but I don't say, Brawl is less balanced because Jigglypuff sucks.
You might respond but you dont READ you
F**K Tripping what fighting game has critical hits thats actually good
Now try Actually
READING IT THIS TIME and i want you to address all the point or at concede to some and accept you are wrong. Tell me what points you are addressing.
I think you are a hypocrite prove me other wise
LETS do this again
READ THIS TIME
lol
then why are you here. you said on magical page 76 that you are currently favoring brawl.Try as you might i see your argument has devolved into calling the melee side brawl bashers. You still cant refute anything ive said or anything else our side has stated. You havent even stated a decent criteria for comparing the balance. If our side has been bashing then why hasnt it been stated pages before now Why cant you define the bashing? Why cant we bring the engine into account. You are comparing games to find balance. You dont throw in details to anything you say. Its not so much me misreading you as its you having a poor idea conveying of what you want to discuss. you yourself have brought up no points at all. I'm just going to assume your just a hypocrite as you brought up kirby being affected by melees engine I said captain falcon was hampered by brawls engine and you HAVENT ADMITTED IT. In this comparison of melee and brawls balance, qualities of each game are going to be brought out into the light to show how they affect the characters and the game itself. What is the criteria.....you and everyone else on the brawl side (the brawl side made this topic) have been too lazy to make any. Is the criteria defining rulesets, stages, characters, tournaments, ALL OF THESE ARE DERIVATIVES of the game itself which it self runs on that particular engine or format which establishes the way ALL of these derivatives work. so in more fleshed out arguments this is going to be eventually brought up.
You know why i repeated the bit about the criteria. cause I know how you are when it comes to reading comprehension and this aint hooked on phonics.
You know why i say page 76 is magical. Cause its the page where you suddenly decided to skip my post and blindly defend amazing ampharos WITHOUT READING MINES IN FULL CONTEXT: IM going to prove that right now and unlike you i'm going to put in a conscious effort to explain how I KNOW you didnt read it.
I will disseminate his post first: YES i am qualified to do this as I was replying to it and just like this topic we are comparing and contrasting two post MINE AND HIS. Ill post paragraph by paragraph in the green text showing how relevant it is to mine and ill even include direct quotes from mine.
Originally Posted by Amazing Ampharos View Post
If you have more time to punish, that means that aspect is slower. It's a simple thing. Several random things in brawl are faster than they are in melee. For instance, no one in melee covers ground like Sonic does. I thinks rolls in general are a bit faster in brawl, but I'm not completely sure. They're certainly way more useful if nothing else... The point is that it's not totally black and white even in terms of speed. Yeah, melee is overall faster, but it's not strictly faster.
Please tell me how ANYTHING in this post refutes any of my arguments random things that are faster sonics speed really doesnt matter. The roll still doesnt refute my point of being predictable and appearently thats all he could come up with for being fast for ALL of the characters. as for punishment its almost like he was advertising that brawl was better for not having time to punish and this is false (ill reiterate that towards the bottom) i see nothing else that was implied except that theres less punish which doesnt make brawl faster in any legit aspect.
L-canceling is one of the most ridiculous things that gets complained about. Aerials in brawl have less landing lag in general in general than the non-L-canceled versions did in melee. Do you notice how almost every up aerial has ridiculously little landing lag in brawl? Someone is going to say "look at Captain Falcon..." I'm sure despite him being a completely unfair example because Captain Falcon and Ganon just got screwed in brawl and are like basing everything about melee's speed on Bowser or Mewtwo, but if you actually look at the cast as a whole, landing lag is generally lower than the non-L-canceled melee landing lag. It's not quite as low as the L-canceled stuff, but it's seriously not that long. It's also true that you actually feel it with laggy moves like Link's down aerial; in the end, landing lag variation between moves is a bigger deal in brawl. However, is that a bad thing?
This is ridiculous I said lag is lag and lcanceling helps character of all tiers and its fast then the auto cancel. He said himself that the lcanceling is faster then the auto canceling. Dont worry I even highlighted it for you. Remember we are comparing BOTH GAMES not just brawl itself. You cant seem to understand it lcanceling IN MELEE helps to make the matchups better.
The L-canceling system also completely arbitrarily screwed over Mr. Game & Watch, and if that level of landing lag was good, why did you have to press a button to begin with? It's hard to deny that melee would have been strictly superior if it were the same game with landing lag always being the level of L-canceling even if you don't press L (or R or Z for those who want to be pedantic).
I"m just gonna say this is useless. I HAVE THE GAME. L canceling might not have helped game and watch but it didnt screw him over and his aerials still cancel.
I'm frankly unconvinced that top vs bottom is any more extreme in brawl than it is in melee. Seriously, explain to me how melee Ness beats melee Sheik. Or try melee Bowser vs melee Sheik. The stock pretty much ends when Sheik lands a grab, and she's better than them in almost every way anyway so it's not like that's hard for her. Are you going to try to assert that the bad sides of those matchups can win unless the player is a lot better? At least brawl Captain Falcon can play with release grabs and runs fast and even has some pretty dangerous moves if he can get them in. He gets to play for real the entire time even; he has a very hard time because his moves are generally pretty poor and tricky to land, but he certainly gets lots of chances to try and even win if the player is better. The best versus the worst is pretty sucky in both games, but if I had to take the losing side in either game, I'd take it in brawl.
HE doesnt know the matchup of sheik vs ness in melee at all. its plain as day. I WILL SAY THIS AGAIN SINCE HE SPECIFIED EXTREMES. SHEIK VS BOWSER IS NOT AS BAD AS D3 VS DK.
The release grabs are a aspect of brawls engine. if he can mention engine aspect WHY CANT I
About tech chases, you also have Mr. Game & Watch's down throw and Diddy Kong's bananas that set up for it all the time.
Tripping in general can lead to it even, and on stages like Luigi's Mansion it comes up pretty consistently. Tech chasing is a big deal in brawl for sure.
THIS IS USELESS TECH CHASING IS JUST AS IMPORTANT IN MELEE (and better) also F**K tripping
Mashing airdodge is a good way to lose in brawl by the way. You just get hit as the airdodge ends. Yeah, I can't deny that the defender has more options, but it's not like you go "oh well, I got hit". Getting hit is still what leads to you losing, and it still puts you in bad positions. Melee has a more offensive focus than brawl for sure, but the basic concepts between the two games are really not that different. You still do get punished in brawl. How do you think people lose in brawl? It's still about who leaves the opponent more opportunities and who capitalizes on the opportunities he gets better versus who mitigates the dangers of his mistakes the best. Just look at fighting Snake; I screw up at low percentage, get hit by his grenade, and then he catches me with jab1 -> ftilt1 -> ftilt2 as I try to recover from the positional consequences of being hit by the grenade. That's a lot of damage!
again the punishment isnt as good as it needs to be for some characters
Also, here's a random fault in melee that brawl doesn't have to worry about. In melee, Donkey Kong and Mr. Game & Watch have horrible shields that barely protect them even when they are full and make it really easy to shieldstab them. In brawl, no one has shields that disproportionate to their body sizes. Why do people never bring stuff like that up when comparing the games? This isn't that big of a deal, but the point is that melee has random little irritating things in it too that were fixed in brawl.
THE things that brawl fixed dont equal the amount of things that are broken and they had to ban and the thing that are conveniently left out. HE advertising how good brawl is
I will post my comment next: THAT WAS IN RESPONSE TO HIS.
I'm sorry but you dont get to turn around a fundamental aspect that was overlooked in brawl and say that that makes melee slower. ESPECIALLY one thats SUPPOSED to be in fighting games. ITS CALLED A FOLLOW UP TO A COMBO. I dont mean to sound this straightfoward but hes sonic. Of course his gonna be fast but that speed is hampered by small stages and the fact that with out JC grabs, dash dancing and a extended stop animation makes his tech chasing average at best. Then again this really has nothing to do with balance. Rolls are really useful because its all about being defensive, there less lag coming out of them (lucarios roll is stupid good) Annnnd you dont really have much other options for better ground manuvering. what im trying to say is that most of these points that "make brawl fast" are irrelevant outliers. explain the floatness of all characters. explain the lack of useful strafes for offensive and defensive gameplay.
L canceling deserves to be complained about. Lag is lag and l canceling helped to lessen that. Well brawls over all floatness comes into play and not that it matters much with oh wait another detrimental aspect of brawls engine, low hitstun. Oh side note complaining about captain falcon and ganondorf in brawl is not like complaining about mewtwo and bowser in melee at all. Captain falcon and ganondorf are screwed because they dont belong with that games engine. Mewtwo and bowser are generally just bad characters a title that befalls some characters in EVERY FIGHTING GAME.
SOOOOO you would rather fight d3 as dk then take on sheik as bowser lol. Also please...melee matchups are better. you know more stun, more strafes, this sort of thing.
lol l canceling is like learning how to do ivys calamity synphony or learning JF uppercuts with the mishimas. Its extra in the game but it helps in the long run if you learn to do it. its called learning to play on a advanced level/ wanting to be better.
Yes getting hit is bad but there should be a tide of push and pull/offense/defense situations that evolves from getting hit. Not just of i can do anything i want now. not being at a neutral postion the best display of defense/ offence at brawl only happens at the mid percents. Lower percents means you get hit and its like oh nothing happens and at higher you get to far knocked back fo them to do much of anything and you are still neutral. With lack of edgeguarding you wait for them to be back on the stage(airdodging) then you are neutral.
Unless you are meta knight edge guarding for this game is sub par at best.
Again these are random outliers for two characters. l2 power shield. Plus I think this is a little exagerated.
CASE IN POINT: YOU ETHER DIDNT OR CANT READ
Also since I figure you probably skipped this. A reason why higher hit stun and more movement options lead to melee having better matchups:
By ME
More options doesnt directly equate to better balance but the do assist in eliminating becoming predictable. this opens up more strafes so that the low tier characters who already have a disadvantage against someone higher can at least be on a even footing when it comes to advanced manuvering. Theres too many character specific traits in brawl for instance what does metaknight have on DK. five jumps 4 viable b specials that can recover, a glide, all his moves auto cancel better, IDC and so on. Not all the advanced techniques would be needed in brawl but DD, lcancel and JC grabs would make things much smoother. The lack of alternate strafes alone does not make the argument that brawl is less balanced. Its when you couple it with a lack of hit stun and floatness that it shows a higher meaning. lol with no hitstun characters have to exchange hits. Some characters in brawl are already at a disadvantage of even getting the hits in with out being predictable and having their attempts nulified. then when they finally do get the hit theres no follow up just back to square one with their predictable moves and more frustration to get in another hit with very little reward and a high chance you wont win the exchange. Plus if a character can camp you it gets worse. MUCH WORSE Then it would be if you could have new ways/strafes to get that hit in and follow up on that deserved confirmed hit for a better reward. THIS is why proportionally/ or directly parallel the brawl matchups compared with the melee ones are MUCH, MUCH worse overall.
at you
