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Improve your MK: Tactics, Theory-crafting, & More!

Staco

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
2,173
Location
Germany
At friendlys I sometimes scream out loud, then do some really aggressive action, haha. xD
Works pretty often.
Yesterday I sneezed when I played some Snake guy, then just pressed fsmash (had to close eyes while sneezing) and killed him with it, haha. xD
He was like: damn, U just did that do distract me, haha xD
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
3,113
Location
Colorado
@ anybody that got super ***** by a Marth in Grand finals recently in Europe:

When Marth is recovering, if you predict he's going to use side-b to stall, just wait a second before grabbing the ledge. You would have gimped Leon soooo many times that way.
 

Staco

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
2,173
Location
Germany
if I stare at the sun sometimes I sneeze
Why would you ever stare at the sun on purpose? xD

@ demonictoonlink:
That doesnt work, since the Marth will just instant up b, if you do nothing.
If you grab the edge right in the moment, when he is up b ing he will go over the edge and come back to the stage.
It´s not as easy as you think it is, since the Marth is able to react to you (your only option is to grab the edge at different timings and build in some mindgames, the Marth is able to go above the edge, delay his timing, fast fall and also time the up b different) . :s
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
Why would you ever stare at the sun on purpose? xD

@ demonictoonlink:
That doesnt work, since the Marth will just instant up b, if you do nothing.
If you grab the edge right in the moment, when he is up b ing he will go over the edge and come back to the stage.
It´s not as easy as you think it is, since the Marth is able to react to you (your only option is to grab the edge at different timings and build in some mindgames, the Marth is able to go above the edge, delay his timing, fast fall and also time the up b different) . :s
to sneeze
xD
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
3,113
Location
Colorado
Why would you ever stare at the sun on purpose? xD

@ demonictoonlink:
That doesnt work, since the Marth will just instant up b, if you do nothing.
If you grab the edge right in the moment, when he is up b ing he will go over the edge and come back to the stage.
It´s not as easy as you think it is, since the Marth is able to react to you (your only option is to grab the edge at different timings and build in some mindgames, the Marth is able to go above the edge, delay his timing, fast fall and also time the up b different) . :s
I'm not saying it's going to work everytime, but it DEFINITELY will work sometimes, even against such an amazing player.
If you're hovering near the edge the Marth won't know if you're just going to grab it or wait. If they're reacting near perfectly, they should be able to see if they can make it to the edge first, but if they predict you're going to grab the edge and you don't, free gimp :)
But yeah, edgehogging Marf is hard.
 

!!!RM!!!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
210
Location
Imperial Beach, CA
Just taking a stab at this, but if the marth is going to side b stall once he sees you go for the ledge couldn't you just dash off and fastfall a dair? or perhaps fastfall shuttle loop onto the ledge?
 

Grump

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
131
Location
Florida
I try to dtilt, ftilt (buffered or timed, depending on their past patterns) to 2nd, then dtilt again after that. You know precisely where they are going to land so it's easy to space, and people seem to have trouble shielding that combo. If they trip, it's then an easy dash-grab. Better than f-smash imo since that's good to use to punish readed spotdodges.
 

BlueZebra

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
305
And it's easier to just press B to beat phantasm and then do whatever you want :)
This. Either they overshoot the ledge and get punished for it, or they grab the ledge and you can focus on out-spacing them. Either way you're at an advantage imo.
 

Staco

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
2,173
Location
Germany
Just taking a stab at this, but if the marth is going to side b stall once he sees you go for the ledge couldn't you just dash off and fastfall a dair? or perhaps fastfall shuttle loop onto the ledge?
No, since you can´t time this on reaction.
 

BlueZebra

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
305
What are MK's best approaching options?

I had to deal with annoying players who'll stick the opposite side of the stage and spam projectiles while avoiding conflict by dodge rolling(which ends up in an easy punish) but what's the best way of reaching them without taking too much damage?
 

theunabletable

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,796
Location
SoCal
Walk up to them.

Or approach with dairs at an angle that makes it tough for them to hit you, but that's a bit more unsafe against certain characters due to lack of shield option, and you have more offensive options when walking, so it's hella easy to get them off stage if they do that.
 

Grump

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
131
Location
Florida
Dairing shuttle loops?

That was perhaps the one thing I did successfully at my most recent tournament, and a lot of people chalked it up to beginner's luck (which kinda offends me, because that was one maneuver I've been practicing), but I'm curious if this is as feasible in higher level playing as it was in my friendlies/pools.

Keep in mind I did horrible since it was my first tournie, so I'm trying to pick which tricks have worked, and build off of those.

Would a nair be better for anti-shuttle loopage?
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
Yep, SL has crappy priority and crappy MK players don't seem to be aware. The broken moves glaring weakness...
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
it really has no effect vs buffered throws, this might bail you out if you get grabbed at 0% or vs less experienced IC players, but you can't "really" mash out of their grabs to begin with unless they **** up.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
Doesn't everyone buffer their grabs these days? And you still gotta react to the grab to get out in time so yeah...
 

Exdeath

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
3,006
Location
Florida
I recently did this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF5L1ZL_M4c&feature=related
with MK on FD...

Anybody know the proper spacing to do this 100% of the time? I'm assuming it's a spacing oriented technique, not timing or inputs
I've actually been practicing this to the point where I can get it three out of ten times with Up-B and Side-B, but it is pretty difficult to describe the spacing. I'm pretty sure that you're supposed to phantom hit (as in pixel-sized spacing) the auto-snap at the top of the ledge. Just spend time messing around in training mode and you'll start doing it on your own when you're getting down the various Up-B spacings.
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
No, since you can´t time this on reaction.
you definitely can just dair marth on reaction if he does it and youre relatively close to the ledge

move comes out frame 4 so even if you take like 15 frames to react to it ( SLOW AS BALLS) you should have another 15 to get to marth since its a total of 30 frames before he can upB
 

Staco

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
2,173
Location
Germany
doesnt marth up b come ou much earlier?
are we speaking about the same things?
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
And has invincibility prior to that. It's hard to beat, at least risky, too bad the move itself sucks as a recovery.
It's also boring like all the melee recoveries. Presses upB and the char jumps up. Simple as that, nothing special D:
 

Max Ketchum

Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
6,216
Location
New Jersey
Falling nair from the edge (by hitting back, not down) is amazing for beating Marth's up B.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
Watching videos and play the game I have noticed **** like that is teched sort of rarely. It's reliable enough.
 

Staco

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
2,173
Location
Germany
He's talking about side B. Marth's up B hitbox comes out on frame 5, anyway.
Ah okay, I was talking about the Up B. :p


Orion, which level are the CPUs, when you play them?
And which CPUs do you practice against, what exactly are you looking for etc.?
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
The only reason I play vs computers is so I have the weights memorized, and so i know what's guaranteed based off DI/regardless of DI. myself, I play vs level 3 computers. Not too often though, just when I'm out of practice and want to make sure I'm warm for a tournament.
 
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