Improve your MK: Tactics, Theory-crafting, & More!

[-LzR-]

Orion we are both pros. We are awesome. Nothing is impossible for us.

 

[etecoon]

I use tap jump off on the wiichuk with B jump and A+B special so it's still really easy to up B OOS and it's basically like always clawing

I haven't found a reasonable way to instant nair OOS without like, eliminating grab or something ridiculous like that though, so I switched back to GCN controller even though my only GCN controller left has a pretty bad analog stick :/ it's so aggravating that the wiichuk is actually nearly a good controller but it needs those 1/2 buttons to be more accessable, but they're WAY the **** out of the way because some ****** at nintendo was like "wouldn't it be AWESOME if you unplugged the analog stick and you could turn it sideways and it'd be like an NES controller!?!?", **** nintendo

 

[Grump]

Why tap jump? o.O Besides taste-difference, is there some inherent advantage to it?

@Orion: I generally swap between standard and claw throughout matches as needed- that may be a good way to start as opposed to doing it all the time

 

[GALE 14]

Can someone explain to me what claw means ?

 

[Grump]

Claw, as I'm using it, means holding the controller differently. Originated from some famous champ player in Halo 1. I couldn't find any GC controller claw pics, but it's somewhat like this...

only I personally hold the index finger more parallel to the controller for quicker travel between buttons. /shrug

 

[GALE 14]

Thx ^^
last question: What are the advantages when you play with claw hand ?

 

[Grump]

You basically give yourself an extra finger to play with. Normally, people tuck the middle, ring, and pinky finger behind the controller where they can't do anything. By using the middle to cover R and Z, you have your thumb to take over the C-stick and your index to cover A,B,X,Y.

This is particularly useful if you have your C-stick set to smash or attack (not special) because you can use the index to precisely control your jumps while using the thumb to control which aerial you want to do without having to worry about altering your momentum either way (normally you would have to push left or right on the left stick to decide which aerial you did, which would affect your landing curve).

Just IMO though, I'm sure the other veterans can probably tear that up in a heartbeat

 

[Kaffei]

I play with tap jump on and I claw whenever I use dair in the air

 

[-LzR-]

I use tapjump and I switch between it and jump button a lot during the match. If your reason to not tapjump is that you can't utilt then you should quit the game and play something that requires less techskill like Solitaire.

 

[Grump]

I use tapjump and I switch between it and jump button a lot during the match. If your reason to not tapjump is that you can't utilt then you should quit the game and play something that requires less techskill like Solitaire.

Oh it's possible to utilt quite easily, it just helps that you have more time to devote to, you know.... Thinking about the match? Instead of that frame or two I would have to dedicate towards not JAMMING the controller stick up, I would rather have the split second time-control to be able to jam up and not worry about jumping.

It just seems like wasted mental bandwidth- why give another function to an already loaded control mechanism when you can shift it to a button that has no other purpose, and is perfectly positioned to allow you to maintain and control all momentum at the same time?

 

[-LzR-]

Because I can quickly tilt the stick, the motion is actually faster than jamming the stick up.

 

[Grump]

You completely missed the argument.
Mental bandwidth, not finger dexterity.
When the entire game comes down to who can think more on a per second basis, pressing a button takes less thought than deciding on what speed you should move the controller stick. Even if it's reaction, you have the problem where, for example, you may want to dair right out of jump. It's faster to do if you can Y+A while holding the stick down in one fluid movement, rather than jamming up, then jamming back down and pressing A. That's three distinct movements, as opposed to two, and having two ways of jumping makes your brain process which method would be better.

Less mental bandwidth hogging = more opponent reading.

 

[Orion*]

I use tap jump off on the wiichuk with B jump and A+B special so it's still really easy to up B OOS and it's basically like always clawing

I haven't found a reasonable way to instant nair OOS without like, eliminating grab or something ridiculous like that though, so I switched back to GCN controller even though my only GCN controller left has a pretty bad analog stick :/ it's so aggravating that the wiichuk is actually nearly a good controller but it needs those 1/2 buttons to be more accessable, but they're WAY the **** out of the way because some ****** at nintendo was like "wouldn't it be AWESOME if you unplugged the analog stick and you could turn it sideways and it'd be like an NES controller!?!?", **** nintendo

get a new gc controller? ive been through like 3 in the past few months sadly

 

[-LzR-]

Grump, after using tapjump for over a year, I don't really think about how I tilt the stick. No more effort required, instead, it allows OoS moves to be performed easier and with less mental bandwidth.

Also, I was confuse about your mental bandwidth since I read it as "metal bandwidth" and I was like wtf.

 

[etecoon]

get a new gc controller? ive been through like 3 in the past few months sadly

can't get them in person and I'm paranoid about online shopping especially because this computer I'm using has had a few virus'(possibly false positives but don't feel like risking that)

it's my own fault for having anger problems, I've broken 5 controllers over brawl and the one I have left is the only one that's had such a horrible analog stick

going to try and figure out a way to make wiichuk work anyway, some aspects of my game I feel like are better with it anyway just no instant nair the way I have it mapped right now...

 

[Orion*]

have someone get it for you and give them the cash ?

also ete i see you lurking on aib

add me on aim

PokeOrion

i want to wifi or something comps are boring after a while

 

[Staco]

You completely missed the argument.
Mental bandwidth, not finger dexterity.
When the entire game comes down to who can think more on a per second basis, pressing a button takes less thought than deciding on what speed you should move the controller stick.

Thats not true.
If you make a reaction test U also just slighlty press the button and you don´t mash it as hard as possible.
You don´t have to decide how hard you press the button, because it gets an instinct.
U automatically just press it slighlty, if you want to utilt then and its not slower in any case (maybe even faster).

 

[-LzR-]

After playing the game, you must have noticed how much mastering things helps you.
At first when you started playing, you thought "I have to press L to activate my shield, protecting me from the hit" now you think "I must shield" because you have mastered it.
Same for everything in the game. That is why I can easily utilt with tapjump without thinking about it at all.

 

[Grump]

I suppose adapting on reaction would possible make it more feasible. I was wrong? o.O
I hate the stage of a discussion where I admit that I was wrong and go off to reevaluate my current choice in the matter XD Maybe I have something new to master after the 18th ^^

 

[-LzR-]

Whatever, use what you feel like is the best. Many top players use tapjump and many don't. Doesn't really matter. Everything can be done with or without it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I use Tapjump off because it hurts my DI, I used to lose my second jump so easy... So I use L for jump in order to make SL OoS better =P

 

[-LzR-]

Any substitute is also nice. I prefer tapjump for some reason, I used to hate it, tried it and I loved it.

 

[Kaffei]

Oh it's possible to utilt quite easily, it just helps that you have more time to devote to, you know.... Thinking about the match? Instead of that frame or two I would have to dedicate towards not JAMMING the controller stick up, I would rather have the split second time-control to be able to jam up and not worry about jumping.

It just seems like wasted mental bandwidth- why give another function to an already loaded control mechanism when you can shift it to a button that has no other purpose, and is perfectly positioned to allow you to maintain and control all momentum at the same time?

This is the stupidest **** I ever read.

 

[Grump]

This is the stupidest **** I ever read.

I'm not going to say if I think you are right or wrong, but I am interested in your reasoning behind this claim.

 

[Kaffei]

Because if you've put the practice and effort into playing Meta Knight (or any character for that matter) you wouldn't need to even think about doing something as simple as a Utilt with tap jump on. It should all be muscle memory. If M2K can do it, and I can do it, then ANYONE can do it. I am not saying that people who use tap jump are superior or inferior to anyone else, but if you are really going to give a reason like that for not using tap jump I am just going to straight up call you out.

P.S. I really hope some ******* person doesn't come in and says something like "it takes no effort to play MK"

 

[Player-4]

Doing Utilts with tap jump on is just like doing Ftilts without walking, not a hard feat to accomplish

 

[Grump]

Because if you've put the practice and effort into playing Meta Knight (or any character for that matter) you wouldn't need to even think about doing something as simple as a Utilt with tap jump on. It should all be muscle memory. If M2K can do it, and I can do it, then ANYONE can do it. I am not saying that people who use tap jump are superior or inferior to anyone else, but if you are really going to give a reason like that for not using tap jump I am just going to straight up call you out.

P.S. I really hope some ******* person doesn't come in and says something like "it takes no effort to play MK"

Meh, that was one of the initial reasons I chose to have it off (changing momentum just to jump being the second of three, and the nature of the time consumed to move the fingers being the last) and I've kinda stuck by it. Now if there's a way it can be proven inferior to tap-jump, then by all means tell me. I'll change and adapt. I'll hail you as superior for a week or two. Until then, my reasons stand the same and only one has come under debate to begin with, much less been defeated utterly.

Stalemate?

 

[Kaffei]

I just said that I don't think tap jump users are inferior or superior lol. You can use whatever control set up you want. I called you out because you used a technical skill reason to say that tap jump is bad

nothing against you, by the way.

 

[Grump]

Bah, I always have trouble interpreting interwebz neutrality. I always take things way over or way under the intended effect >.<

On a more productive note, I've noticed a shift in my gameplay and how it compares to most other MK players (at least, most other low-scale-but-still-wannabe-competitive players). Wanted to get some feedback.

What MU's do you guys play aggressively in, and what MU's warrant more Turtle-style play?

Second Question: Nadoing has been giving me troubles lately. Is their a way to counter DI?
Any any other pointers? :D

 

[Kaffei]

Campy: Kirby, DDD, G&W, Pikachu, Wario, Marth, ICs
Aggressive: Diddy, Peach, Olimar, MK ditto


That's just me though.

 

[theunabletable]

For me:

Aggressive: Everyone but sometimes Snake if I actually want to win instead of learn.

For me personally, because I've been playing a lot more aggro lately, I've learned a lot more about the game in general; because I've been in more situations where I try and put my opponent in a bad position, and I've been in more situations where I myself am not in a good position, so I get better at doing well in advantaged and disadvantaged positions. Playing aggro makes both of those, for me anyways, come up more often, so I get to learn more, personally.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Aggro: non-banana Diddy and non-turnip Peach, and everyone else but GW.
That's all can tell with my limited experience.

 

[-LzR-]

I used to camp all the time. Sometimes it's not a good option. I always camped the DK MU. I ended up losing a lot. Then I switched to aggressive and now I **** DK's ***. I give him no time to charge a punch.

 

[etecoon]

I only really agro like, pit and some low tiers(I lose to low tiers though so don't do what I do?) but I don't really hardcore camp many characters either, I just try to stay just a tiny bit out of their range and wait for them to **** something up pretty much, camping for punishes more than for time outs

 

[Staco]

For me it mostly depends on my enemy, not the character Im playing against.
It also depens on the situation.
Vs. bad players im going very aggressive in general, since it works. xD

 

[Orion*]

i jump w/ tap jump but im going to try and go claw after the new years

its just functionally better

 

[Kaffei]

I think grabs are soooo good and when u get a sexy read you can do sooo much damage at low %s

i luv grabs

 

[BigDaddy4]

i luv grabs

future olimar/ddd/ic main in the making.

 

[Kaffei]

i hate olimar cus his recovery is poo
ddd is too slow and not fun
ics make any match boring
mk is fun =D

 

[etecoon]

agree with everything kaffei said, lol DDD bores the **** out of me

MK and marth are the only characters I can stand playing much anymore, used to play snake a lot but he just frustrates the **** out of me for the past year or so and at this point I only use him in tournament against people that I know have snake issues

my marth is funny because I still try to do MK stuff and get ***** for it. all of marth's grab shenanigans are fun though

oh, and some mid/low tiers I like playing but I probably just find it less stressful because I don't use them in a serious capacity. if I ever tried to main fox I would only have to get chain grabbed or tilt locked once before I would go rage knight for time outs