Ike Boards General/Q&A Thread

[Nidtendofreak]

So? Let's flood the BBR with Ike influence. Next tier list, Ike will be high tier with all of the hype we can make back there.

 

[YagamiLight]

We'll all get kicked out after we put Ike as #1 but **** it'll be worth it.

 

[theeboredone]

Nah, we'll take one step inside the BBR and then all the MK's will Nado us up to the ceiling. Then we will magically end up in the background while screaming "OHHHHHH".

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Indeed.

Besides: they don't kick people out for their votes. I saw someone put Fox over G&W. They let Inui lurk in there forever until he finally stepped on too many toes.

That was at Light's post.

 

[Nysyarc]

I was thinking about applying... I wouldn't have a very good chance at actually getting in since, really the only new thing I can offer to bring to the BBR table is a better understanding of Ike than anyone currently in there. I can guarantee you that being a moderator doesn't give me any kind of an edge, I'd be on the same playing field as everyone else.

I'd rather see Mr. Doom, San, Niddo or any combination of those guys in there than me. Still, I might apply and see what happens.

 

[•Col•]

Man, none of you are qualified to become a member of the BBR. :/ You all have your heads in the clouds...

We need someone completely level-headed and 100% un-biased in there to represent Ike...... Someone like Inui.

Spoiler

trollface.jpg

inb4namesearch

 

[theeboredone]

Inui is not on SWF anymore lol. He was exiled to AiB.

 

[Espy Rose]

Inui's on AiB, making his own BBR.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Quick question, how safe a spacing move is Fair against a grounded opponent. It seems too easy to drop shield, then dash attack punish Ike everytime with it.

 

[Nysyarc]

Inui's on AiB, making his own BBR.

Where he and his fellow BRers will discuss stuff like this:

You were unable to compete with me in combat, and it's not your character; ROB's tilts are bigger than MK's, his sidestep is better, and his d-smash is faster.

ROB > MK guys. Srs bsns.

Spoiler

The really bad part is that I didn't even have to dig to find a post like that from him... that's his most recent post, lmao.

Quick question, how safe a spacing move is Fair against a grounded opponent. It seems too easy to drop shield, then dash attack punish Ike everytime with it.

It depends on the opponent, how well you space it, wether or not you fast-fall and use it so that the hitbox comes out right before landing, thus reducing the amount of time you are vulnerable (or doing a full-hop Fair to auto-cancel it, although this won't work against shorter opponents).

Character like Sonic, Falcon, MK, etc... are not worth trying to space an Fair against if they are grounded and ready for you, because they will be able to easily punish it, especially if they get a PS. However, for slower characters (and particularly characters with large grab range) like DDD, spacing Fair and retreating it a bit before you land is a great option and unless they have a very fast projectile, it is more or less unpunishable.

It is often more beneficial and safer to space/approach with Nair, but Fair can definitely be a better option than Nair in some MUs and in some situations. If you have any specific scenarios you'd like to mention, please do, because your question was pretty general, lol.

 

[YagamiLight]

Quick question, how safe a spacing move is Fair against a grounded opponent. It seems too easy to drop shield, then dash attack punish Ike everytime with it.

VERY safe.

Consider that a Fair gives a frame advantage of -17 on hit. Then consider that dropping a shield requires 7 frames. No character, not even Sonic, can cross that distance within ten frames and attack Ike.

The only character who can punish a max spaced Fair is Olimar with a White Pikmin since that reaches just about the length of Ike's Fair.

 

[Raziek]

I was thinking about applying... I wouldn't have a very good chance at actually getting in since, really the only new thing I can offer to bring to the BBR table is a better understanding of Ike than anyone currently in there. I can guarantee you that being a moderator doesn't give me any kind of an edge, I'd be on the same playing field as everyone else.

I'd rather see Mr. Doom, San, Niddo or any combination of those guys in there than me. Still, I might apply and see what happens.

Don't worry, I've got the Nova Scotia rep under control.

If I don't get in this time, it's officially an impossible task. I don't think I could be any MORE qualified without going to the US and ****** M2K or something.

 

[Ussi]

Quick question, how safe a spacing move is Fair against a grounded opponent. It seems too easy to drop shield, then dash attack punish Ike everytime with it.

You get 22 + air time to punish Ike's fair. Dashing in is very strict because I punish dashes in with a jab pretty much all the time unless i didn't FF my fair.

 

[YagamiLight]

You get 22 + air time to punish Ike's fair. Dashing in is very strict because I punish dashes in with a jab pretty much all the time unless i didn't FF my fair.

You forgot that shield stun means it's 17 + air time.

 

[theeboredone]

Man, anyone remember this scene from DMC? Possibly one of the best moments ever in the game's history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qG4AlK1qk

Let's not forget this beautiful scene from FFX. I'm sure this is how Brett spends a romantic afternoon with his gf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5FTJxfV3pc

 

[•Col•]

Man, anyone remember this scene from DMC? Possibly one of the best moments ever in the game's history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qG4AlK1qk

Never played DMC, but that reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LISmPmdUhYA

 

[Espy Rose]

Funny enough, after Bored's initial video, I saw the next two you two linked to back to back.
The DMC one is still the funniest.

 

[YagamiLight]

Let's not forget this beautiful scene from FFX. I'm sure this is how Brett spends a romantic afternoon with his gf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5FTJxfV3pc

I like to think that the way they laugh reflects how tense the atmosphere is.

Or anything other than "They are not good at laughing."

 

[theeboredone]

You should watch the japanese version of Tidus' laugh. He sounds like a crow rofl.

Great video btw Colaya. Haven't played X4 in forever.

 

[Mr. Doom]

It seems as if someone already figured me out. In reality, I've been working on my modded doom levels. Oh yeah, I did slip an application into the BBR.

 

[Slaps]

It depends on the opponent, how well you space it, wether or not you fast-fall and use it so that the hitbox comes out right before landing, thus reducing the amount of time you are vulnerable (or doing a full-hop Fair to auto-cancel it, although this won't work against shorter opponents).

Character like Sonic, Falcon, MK, etc... are not worth trying to space an Fair against if they are grounded and ready for you, because they will be able to easily punish it, especially if they get a PS. However, for slower characters (and particularly characters with large grab range) like DDD, spacing Fair and retreating it a bit before you land is a great option and unless they have a very fast projectile, it is more or less unpunishable.

It is often more beneficial and safer to space/approach with Nair, but Fair can definitely be a better option than Nair in some MUs and in some situations. If you have any specific scenarios you'd like to mention, please do, because your question was pretty general, lol.

I strongly disagree with you sir.. I honestly gotta say I think Fair is better than Nair, its the best move for spacing really, most of my playstyle is based off of Fair spacing like i know what good Fair spacing and bad Fair spacing is. I like Nair but i don't use it much =\ idk its just getting up too close for me and yeah i gotta try using Nair more but i can tell you Fair is REALLY GOOD! My snake is really good at punishing bad spacing with fair and nair XD lol.

 

[Nysyarc]

I strongly disagree with you sir.. I honestly gotta say I think Fair is better than Nair, its the best move for spacing really, most of my playstyle is based off of Fair spacing like i know what good Fair spacing and bad Fair spacing is. I like Nair but i don't use it much =\ idk its just getting up too close for me and yeah i gotta try using Nair more but i can tell you Fair is REALLY GOOD! My snake is really good at punishing bad spacing with fair and nair XD lol.

Gah, use quotes properly so I can quote you more easily, lol.

I never said Fair isn't good, I wrote up Ike's moveset analysis for the guide (which I

Spoiler

we

need to stop procrastinating on) so I definitely am aware of it's many uses. I think though, that many other Ike mains would agree with me when I say that Nair is just a much more well-rounded and overall more practical move than Fair. Less landing lag; not as much range, sure, but it still outranges the majority of other moves in the game.

They're both very good aerial attacks, but you really should try and use them more equally. Nair is by far the best aerial we have for stringing together attacks at low percents and approaching safely. Fair really can't be used as a safe approach on a lot of characters, it has to be used defensively unless you make a good read.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So, I finally put up another BBR application. Yays?

EDIT: Also going to add. G.P., that was a terrible way to reason why PS2 should be banned. Even freaking ADHD things the stage should be legal, and he's one of the strictest people out there when it comes to stages. Different physics due to wind =/= reason that the stage should be banned. Besides the fact you need to prove that the stage needs to be bannable, not that the stage needs to be legal. Innocent (or legal) until proven guilty (or bannable). : \

 

[Raziek]

*ninjas in*

PS2 FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

Ask Nysyarc about how awesome PS2 is in NS.

*Ninjas out*

 

[•Col•]

I never did understand why people ban PS2.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Slaps, against Bowser, Fair is better, because his UpB out of shield loses speed and can punish Nair is PSed, but not Fair.

This is IIRC. But against a lot of other characters, Nair is better. i.e. Sonic. Sonic can punish a Fair on shield because of landing lag. Not a Nair. Fair also seems too easy to powershield when used consistently at the spacing tool.

Also, I don't like PS2. Gravity shift is meh, okay. But what I cannot stand are the conveyor belts and sometimes the ice.

 

[Slaps]

Gah, use quotes properly so I can quote you more easily, lol.

I never said Fair isn't good, I wrote up Ike's moveset analysis for the guide (which I

Spoiler

we

need to stop procrastinating on) so I definitely am aware of it's many uses. I think though, that many other Ike mains would agree with me when I say that Nair is just a much more well-rounded and overall more practical move than Fair. Less landing lag; not as much range, sure, but it still outranges the majority of other moves in the game.

They're both very good aerial attacks, but you really should try and use them more equally. Nair is by far the best aerial we have for stringing together attacks at low percents and approaching safely. Fair really can't be used as a safe approach on a lot of characters, it has to be used defensively unless you make a good read.

I am pretty sure Snake can Ftilt ike out of a non perfect shielded perfectly spaced Nair... I don't know but I'm still going to stick by Fair being ike's best aerial. But I do agree Nair is good for stringing together attacks at low/mid %s. Yeah and fast characters i know can get past Fair easily but also Nair isn't much better vs sonic IMO just lack of landing lag makes it better but i don't see what you can follow up a Nair with vs. sonic if it doesn't hit since any of sonics charged spinny moves will clash with jab...

 

[-RedX-]

Having fun with AIB's card system.
http://allisbrawl.com/cards.aspx?id=17940

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Against Snake's Ftilt, wouldn't you just go Nair -> autocancel -> Shield?

EDIT: I did that AiB card thingy. Don't understand it that much I just wanted to see what it was about.

 

[Nysyarc]

Against Snake's Ftilt, wouldn't you just go Nair -> autocancel -> Shield?

Just don't approach Snake with an aerial when he's standing there ready to shield. Avoid/throw back his nades and wait for an opportunity to get some Jabs in or something. Also, Nair has a very small auto-cancel window near the very end of the animation; it just has very little landing lag so it may kind of seem like it's auto-canceling sometimes.

Just note the different in how soon you can Jab after landing a short-hop Bair that is auto-canceled and a short-hop Nair.

 

[theeboredone]

Red, I'll trade you my Bridge of Eldin and DDD for your Jungle Japes and Falco.

 

[-RedX-]

Lmao.
I think I'm the only one who did something like that. (Ike+Pirateship followed by Game Over+Continue.

 

[theeboredone]

Oh wow, I really do have Bridge of Eldin and DDD. Didn't see that one coming.

 

[Slaps]

Just don't approach Snake with an aerial when he's standing there ready to shield. Avoid/throw back his nades and wait for an opportunity to get some Jabs in or something.

Yeah dude that sure sounds nice, but its not easy to do. You make stuff like that sound so much simpler then it really is to do.. When you give advice including the phrase "or something" it really makes me want to take your advice. It makes yourself sound unsure and negates any advice you gave.

In other news I got for my trading cards, Wario, Continue, Bumper, Bunny Hood, Fire Flower, Lightning, Pitfall, and Soccer Ball. =D lol

 

[Nysyarc]

Yeah dude that sure sounds nice, but its not easy to do. You make stuff like that sound so much simpler then it really is to do..

That's essentially how all advice works. What are you proposing I say instead?

"Start the match by remembering that you are at a disadvantage to Snake and that you are probably not as good a player as your opponent anyways. Try to throw back grenades at Snake and bait an approach in doing so. If several grenades blow up in your face or if Snake approaches with a DACUS and you don't see it coming, don't worry about it, just remind yourself once again that it's okay to lose to a superior player/character.

It's not really worth using any kind of approach on Snake because his tilts outrange your Jab and can be used to easily punish any of your aerial approaches. Unless you can make hard reads or your opponent is a scrub, you basically stand no chance, so use your anger and rush in after going down a stock. If your nerdrage-induced attempt at an approach gets read and punished, try it again, it may work this time."

See, saying it how it's likely to actually go down just isn't very tactful for advice-giving.

When you give advice including the phrase "or something" it really makes me want to take your advice. It makes yourself sound unsure and negates any advice you gave.

How does that make me sound unsure? I'm leaving room for creativity on how to punish the Snake in question's mistake. Jabs are probably your best punishing option in a lot of cases, so I mention them, but I'm not going to list off every possible way that Snake can mis-space a move or make a mistake and every possible way that you can punish said mistakes.

Giving good advice on how to play a MU in Brawl is as almost hard as actually following your advice in the heat of the moment.

Spoiler

/canofwormsopened

 

[theeboredone]

Slaps was never good at making points or arguing...just saying.

 

[Nysyarc]

Lol, I just jump at any chance for a debate, I won't mind if he's not inclined to respond.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

"Start the match by remembering that you are at a disadvantage to Snake and that you are probably not as good a player as your opponent anyways. Try to throw back grenades at Snake and bait an approach in doing so. If several grenades blow up in your face or if Snake approaches with a DACUS and you don't see it coming, don't worry about it, just remind yourself once again that it's okay to lose to a superior player/character.

It's not really worth using any kind of approach on Snake because his tilts outrange your Jab and can be used to easily punish any of your aerial approaches. Unless you can make hard reads or your opponent is a scrub, you basically stand no chance, so use your anger and rush in after going down a stock. If your nerdrage-induced attempt at an approach gets read and punished, try it again, it may work this time."

I actually lol'd at this.

 

[Slaps]

well preferably i would like an example to show how something can work, i don't really like being told to do something that has nothing to back it up... Like I will try stuff depending on what i think will work, if giving advice don't tell someone to improvise cause that's practically no advice whatsoever. Whenever i give advice i usually try and say something you can typically find in playing the matchup and ways to avoid it. You presented to me that the snake will camp, and your suggested response is to camp him back until he ****s up? that's not going to work at all, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Sorry if im skipping around with topic in this post XD haha i lose track of what i am talking about and just skip to next topic XD lol

 

[Nysyarc]

well preferably i would like an example to show how something can work, i don't really like being told to do something that has nothing to back it up...

I don't like to get into semantics in a debate, but by definition the word 'advice' only implies guidance or a recommendation, not a direct command. I'm not telling you to throw back grenades and Jab his mistakes, I'm suggesting it as an option.

There really isn't much need to present examples when giving advice, since advice does not need to be taken seriously or adhered to. If I was to say "I once threw back a Snake's nade to bait him into a DACUS approach which I read and punished with Jabs", you could just as easily reject that as you did my advice. It's a video game; something will either work or it won't, and many things can affect that outcome. You need to decide for yourself whether a certain trick or bit of advice has a good chance of working.

Like I will try stuff depending on what i think will work, if giving advice don't tell someone to improvise cause that's practically no advice whatsoever.

By definition it is advice. It's better in a game like this to give newer players a basic understanding of situations in a MU and let them figure out for themselves how best to deal with those situations, given several possible options. Trying to model yourself perfectly after another player just doesn't work, you have to play in a way that you feel comfortable with; so improvisation is encouraged (to an extent... which is where the advice comes in).

Whenever i give advice i usually try and say something you can typically find in playing the matchup and ways to avoid it. You presented to me that the snake will camp, and your suggested response is to camp him back until he ****s up? that's not going to work at all, it makes no sense whatsoever.

What other options do you have then? You can try to approach the Snake with SHAD, run-up shield and Jabs, run-up grab, Nair, Fair, Bair, DA, QD... you get the idea... or you can just avoid his projectiles entirely instead of trying to throw them back, which accomplishes nothing.

Telling someone every single option they have just isn't a good idea. It's too much to take in at once, and it will lead to confusion during an actual fight when they try to recall those options. Instead, give a generalized statement that sums up what they should try to do, and let them figure it out from there.

Your goal is to either find an opening in Snake's camping that you can exploit with a DA or something

Spoiler

c wut I did thar?

, or bait him into approaching you first, which you should be ready for. I made that goal clear enough and provided a way to do it: throwing back his grenades. I then provided a suggested method of punishing a baited approach, with Jabs.

That is one tiny facet of the MU and I in no way intended to cover the entire length of a match with that piece of advice.

I need to visit the Debate Hall more... I miss this, lol.