Ike Boards General/Q&A Thread

[Zatchiel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWlLgUcOv7g
This is rumored to cause suicide via psychological trauma. I don't get it. I haven't finished watching it, but considering the outliers, it's kinda creepy.

 

[Ussi]

lol how silly that video is

 

[Zatchiel]

lol how silly that video is

That was the wrong video. I went to the site with the actual video, and I only saw the pictures. Two of them, and I am completely horrified. I have never been so scared in my life, guys. I struggle to even type this without messing up. The first image was kinda scary to the point where I had to cover it up with my hand, but the second image did it for me. Just, terrifying.

 

[Ussi]

I think more people have killed themselves cause of p0nies

 

[Teh Brettster]

I think he's right.
I killed myself like 4 times today.

Spoiler

In ONE set.

 

[Ussi]

so out of boredom, i came across an old tier list of Ike's move so i thought i might as well make a current one for now xD:


Top tier
Jab
Bair
Nair
Dash attack
Bthrow
Aether

High tier
Fair

Mid Tier
Dthrow
Uair
Usmash
Utilt
Quick Draw
Dair

Low Tier
Counter
Ftilt
Fsmash
Dtilt
Fthrow
Eruption

Bottom Tier
Dsmash
Uthrow


Notes:

Aether is top tier cause of recovery

 

[Reizilla]

I think more people have been saved by ponies than killed by ponies.

 

[Berserker Swordsman]

I think more people have been saved by ponies than killed by ponies.

Yes, when we eradicated them from the earth, I would certainly say they were "saved."

 

[theeboredone]

Ussi's lame move tier list that I'm gonna comment on, cause I want too.

Jab should be god tier. Why is Eruption higher than D-Throw? You can at least follow up a read with D-throw.

 

[benaji261!]

I use Usmash's for bluffs. It works somewhat...the whole 3 times I've used it.

Should probably use it more.

 

[Heartstring]

so out of boredom, i came across an old tier list of Ike's move so i thought i might as well make a current one for now xD:


Top tier
Jab
Bair
Nair
Dash attack
Bthrow
Aether

High tier
Fair

Mid Tier
Dthrow
Uair
Usmash
Utilt
Quick Draw
Dair

Low Tier
Counter
Ftilt
Fsmash
Dtilt
Fthrow
Eruption

Bottom Tier
Dsmash
Uthrow


Notes:

Aether is top tier cause of recovery

interesting...
i personally feel that ftilt should be mid tier, usmash should be high tier at least. and fsmash should be hype tier, because landing it in a tournament set raises the hype in the entire venue by 3

 

[Ussi]

Jab should be god tier. Why is Eruption higher than D-Throw? You can at least follow up a read with D-throw.

Its over Uthrow, and uthrow is overshadowed by dthrow, just like fthrow is overshadowed by bthrow. And to further uthrows uselessness, once dthrow is not gonna have good follow ups, bthrow is already comboing while uthrow is still just a read. So yea... Uthrow is just a flashy throw to use on nubs.

Eruption has a few recoveries it can destroy.. other than that, its a very hard read.

jab i'm pretty... iffy about.. i know its Ike's best move, but bair is nearly as important and so are his combo attacks.

interesting...
i personally feel that ftilt should be mid tier, usmash should be high tier at least. and fsmash should be hype tier, because landing it in a tournament set raises the hype in the entire venue by 3

ftilt was a hard place for me to put at... Its like hard read but at the same time not as bad. But its still slow, Ike extends his hurtbox BEFORE the hitbox is out (which gets me hit out of it when trying to outspace SO many times) and still is punishable. Still an easier read to get than fsmash and still hits like a smash attack.

Usmash is NOT that great. It had great outcomes but its not at all as usable as fair.

 

[Nysyarc]

so out of boredom, i came across an old tier list of Ike's move so i thought i might as well make a current one for now xD

This would be my list, ordered best to worst inside each tier as well:



Top Tier

Jab 1
Nair
Bair
Bthrow
Pummel

High Tier

Jab 2
Fair
Jab 3
Utilt
Usmash
Fthrow
Uair

Mid Tier

Dash Attack
Aether
Dair
Dthrow
Ftilt

Low Tier

Fsmash
Eruption
Dtilt
Quick Draw
Counter

Bottom Tier

Uthrow
Dsmash



Based pretty much directly off my moveset analysis in the guide. Also @Ussi about Usmash, I disagree; Usmash is used quite a lot and for good reason, it's by far Ike's best smash attack and a great KO move.

We should definitely have an online Low Tier Ike tourney. Fsmash, Eruption, Dtilt, QD, Counter, Uthrow and Dsmash is all you can do, lmao. Can't even use Aether to recover.

 

[Teh Brettster]

You guys are cute.

 

[Zatchiel]

Top Tier

Jab 1 - I use this, very much.

Nair - I use Fair and Bair a little more than this. I need to get it down with the tilt stick, then I'd be able to space it appropriately, but I tend to use it to start most of my combos. At low percents, I normally get a grab, Jab combo, Bair, another Nair, or Utilt. Overall, I don't feel I use this enough, mainly on the case of spacing.

Bair - Use this a lot, but not too much as to where I stale it. I like to keep it fresh unless I'm trying to do damage, but I pressure with it a lot.

Bthrow - Def. my instinct whenever I get a grab. After that, I plan a follow up, but it's usually Dash attack if they're at the appropriate percent range.

Pummel - I don't use this at all unless I feel like it, or I'm trying to ground/air release something. I always just feel like throwing immediately for some odd reason I can't explain.

High Tier

Jab 2 - Yes.
Fair - I think I use this too much. I use Jab more, but this is normally my primary move used for spacing. Need to change that.

Jab 3 - Absolutely, I've come to lover ending my jab cancels wit this, but I switch up when the time comes, or I'm bating.

Utilt - Honestly saying this is my primary KO option when I'm on the ground or I can't get a good aerial in. I use it in damage racking occasionally, but not to the point where it's a habit.

Usmash - Reviewing my tourney matches, I feel like I used this way too much, even in situations where it made absolutely no sense. I didn't get punished for how often I was using it, somehow.

Fthrow - Unless I'm near the ledge, I try my best to avoid using this more than Bthrow. Unless I'm going to CG unless a wall or something, I like Bthrow better.

Uair - I think I use this a fair amount. I like to FF it to catch people on the ground, or when they're coming up. It's also fun to catch air dodges.

Mid Tier

Dash Attack - I'm utmost certain I use this too much. My opponents don't normally react in time, and it's a free hit. If it gets shielded, I normally take a grab or something OoS. However, I don't learn from that mistake, and I find myself doing it again, and again, and again. When I mess up the buffer, I'll Dtilt. After the DA, I normally Jab if they're in range.

Aether - I use this primarily for my recovery. I haven't been getting gimped often, since you all helped me with my macthups, so I think I'm fine with this.

Dair - I feel like this is used when it's appropriate. Other than that, I try to catch someone offstage with the walk-off > Dair. I love to use this against an edgeguarding MK.

Dthrow - Don't use this enough. Odder still, I think I use Uthrow more than this.

Ftilt - I use this more or less at inappropriate times. When I get a good bait, it's well worth it. I decimate a lot of ledge recoveries with this.

Low Tier

Fsmash - For me, this is MU dependent. Definitely still low tier for me, but against Ice Climbers, if I get them desynch, I enjoy using this on the false climber to score the KO if they aren't in percent range to die by anything else.

Eruption - I very seldom use this. Try to keep it mainly for a shield break, but I'll dabble with it if I notice a pattern in my opponent's choice of ledge recovery tactics.

Dtilt - I use this at inappropriate times. Judging by my videos, you guys can tell.

Quick Draw - Unless I'm too far out to Aether (which doesn't occur often), I don't have a second jump, or I want to QDC, I don't use this. Period.

Counter - Don't use this often, but when I do, it's well worth it. You may see me do this if I mess up on Quick Draw.

Bottom Tier

Uthrow - Lol I use this y.

Dsmash - I recently got Jab > Dsmash in one of my pool sets. I don't find use for Dsmash often, since I know better options are at my disposal. Cannot unsee.

I wrote on own personal critique of my gameplay. I do so much so wrong. Did not expect.

We should definitely have an online Low Tier Ike tourney. Fsmash, Eruption, Dtilt, QD, Counter, Uthrow and Dsmash is all you can do, lmao. Can't even use Aether to recover.

I approve.

 

[AN(M)ist]

i should prolly upload a match to prove you guys the lethality of eruption in mid air. one of the player here uses ike and i can't believe how many times he's caught advancing opps in air. seriously in air you should count eruption by the time the sa starts not when the hitbox comes out. expect a vid next week or so. imma going to a smashfest.

 

[Ussi]

This would be my list, ordered best to worst inside each tier as well:



Top Tier

Jab 1
Nair
Bair
Bthrow
Pummel

High Tier

Jab 2
Fair
Jab 3
Utilt
Usmash
Fthrow
Uair

Mid Tier

Dash Attack
Aether
Dair
Dthrow
Ftilt

Low Tier

Fsmash
Eruption
Dtilt
Quick Draw
Counter

Bottom Tier

Uthrow
Dsmash



Based pretty much directly off my moveset analysis in the guide. Also @Ussi about Usmash, I disagree; Usmash is used quite a lot and for good reason, it's by far Ike's best smash attack and a great KO move.

We should definitely have an online Low Tier Ike tourney. Fsmash, Eruption, Dtilt, QD, Counter, Uthrow and Dsmash is all you can do, lmao. Can't even use Aether to recover.

I know we will have differences because of differences of playstyles, however, i find usmash a hard move to use. I basically rated moves in this fashion:

Top tier - These moves are necessary to win

High tier - Moves you use in every match but are significantly more punishable than top tier.

Mid tier - Small reads, pretty basic reads usable in most MUs

Low tier - medium reads to epic hard reads

Bottom tier - overshadowed by other moves

Now then a bit of input of what i think:

Dash attack should be RIGHT ABOVE bthrow just because bthrow = dash attack follow up. And dash attack has more uses than just a follow up of bthrow so that's why I put dash attack that high in the first place.

Pummel i didn't think of, but i would put that are high tier just because its slower, so people who mash like manics will get out of it at lower %s so its useable past 50%.

Jab 2 and 3 i didn't think of really, i just lumped that all in with jab. But jab 2 and 3 would be high tier for me as well..

fthrow is overshadowed hardcore by bthrow, its not even combo to dash attack on all characters and harder to execute too.

Recovery is really important in this game, that's why i rate Aether and quick draw significantly higher than you. Quick draw is a read though, a mix up at best for recovery.

I don't think utilt is high tier given how much most people use it. Its used mostly as a kill follow up from jab...

I know you hate counter so i won't say much besides i find counter the easiest read move to use but it usually does not have much reward besides some damage. Maybe it'll kill if someone got cocky with a kill move, but that's the glory of counter is you can easily counter fall into a charging move.

Uair i can see being high tier.. but I just put it top of mid cause its just a read or falling on a platform trap.

lastly, when your competition for best smash attack is Ike's dsmash and fsmash... you really think its hard to be better than that?

 

[Nysyarc]

I just ordered it based on how often the moves should ideally be used relative to one another, IMO anyways, and roughly.

The problem with Bthrow and DA is that it can be looked at in a lot of different ways. DA is really only safe as a follow-up to Bthrow or to punish really dumb decisions far across the stage from you, otherwise it's a risky option. Bthrow has a (often) guaranteed follow-up with DA, can be followed up with other things on reads, can be used to chuck someone nicely off-stage, can be used to infinite against any wall, including low walls, followed by a guaranteed Utilt/Jabs. That's the way I see the comparison.

Pummel is great, though not necessarily relative to other characters' pummels. It can force ground releases, deals free damage, refreshes other moves, etc... hence why I put it in high tier, just cause I think it should be used very often.

Fthrow, while certainly not as good as Bthrow, is still good in it's own right for a lot of reasons... and really a lot of the same reasons as Bthrow except to a lesser extent. Plus Fthrow is better than Bthrow in doubles for two reasons: you don't move while using it so your partner's follow-up is much less likely to be interrupted by it's hitbox (if your partner is too close behind you they can get kicked by Bthrow), and it has IASA frames sooner than Bthrow.

I rated Aether and QD solely based on usage as offensive moves. If recovery is taken into account then yah, Aether would be higher for sure.

I feel like Utilt isn't used as much as it should/can be though.

And yah I put Uair at the bottom of high tier, because it is used a lot and it's a great surprise KO move and just KO move in general, but it's not as universally safe as other high tier moves. Plus it's hitbox is beautiful for punishing air-dodges and covering options on platforms.

Lol, I did say Usmash is his best smash attack by far. Fsmash and Dsmash certainly don't put up much of a fight.

I like discussing Ike's moves, lol.

 

[Ussi]

hmm....

Well walls aren't everywhere.. imo at least dash attack and bthrow should be next to each other in usefulness.

The fact bthrow is BETTER at wall locks than fthrow completely removes fthrows relevance it had before.

your pummel is in top tier that's that why i brought it up. Ground releases are only good vs Lucas and Ness too. Otherwise we can air release to dash attack on some characters. (Metaknight and Diddy to name 2)

Also, this is just a purely singles thing. doubles is a whole different story. Fsmash jumps to mid-high tier in doubles xD

Usmash becomes high tier. fthrow becomes top tier.



I also love double Ike teams soooooo much!! Ike just sets himself up SO well! San and I did double ike friendlies at apex, it was a blast. I ended up getting more kills just cause san is better at getting grabs than me.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Ugh. I did not feel too well during the tournament. I'm not driving overnight again; it's suicide... Sleep is essential.

btw, I got three eruption kills on the same person in tournament.

 

[Nysyarc]

Ugh. I did not feel too well during the tournament. I'm not driving overnight again; it's suicide... Sleep is essential.

I watched your set against Kain on the stream but I couldn't stick around to see if any of your MMs got streamed. I was hoping you'd win that second match on PS1 after you did like 80% to him in ten seconds from Jabs and an Usmash, that was hype as ****.

 

[Heartstring]

Ugh. I did not feel too well during the tournament. I'm not driving overnight again; it's suicide... Sleep is essential.

btw, I got three eruption kills on the same person in tournament.

THREE!
not one, not two, but three?
jesus this guy needs to learn how to learn you know. was one of them the castle seige gimmick?
also does anyone know if the eruption gimmick works on the fungi on brinstar? could be epic edgeguarding traps on characters that are half forced to get up normally on that stage as they will have that hitbox there regardless of what they do XD

also i feel like doing a move tier list too.

Hype tier:
Fsmash

God tier:
Jab 1

Top tier:
Nair
Bair
Grab
Bthrow

High tier:
Fair
Pummel
Dash attack
Jab 3
Usmash
Utilt
Getup attack (onstage)

Mid tier:
Jab 2
Uair
Fthrow
Ftilt
Aether
Dthrow

Low tier:
Fsmash (for real this time)
Quick draw
ledge attack (both versions)
Dair
Counter
Dtilt

Bottom tier:
Dsmash
Uthrow

yeah i think we got all the attacks there now, i just included the getup and ledge attacks for good measue and the fact they work for me when i mix it up

 

[Ussi]

below 100% get up attack is high tier

above 100% get up attack is mid tier

dthrow has more uses than fthrow

Ike's ledge attacks don't exist. I'd put those in bottom tier or bottom of low.

Also trip get up attacking can be in the upper part of low tier (half the invincibility frames)


Also, Mr. Doom's tier list:

God slayer:
jab

god:
eruption

low tier:
rest

bottom:
nair (off the edge)

Ultra Suck:

SDI

 

[theeboredone]

Ugh. I did not feel too well during the tournament. I'm not driving overnight again; it's suicide... Sleep is essential.

btw, I got three eruption kills on the same person in tournament.

And here, I thought I was the only one who valued a good night's sleep before tourny.

 

[Zatchiel]

I've gone into a tourney with only one hour of sleep. I kept falling asleep at the venue, during the tourney, and I did horrible.
Has anyone ever seen my Kirby? Good. Has anyone ever seen my Kirby when I'm up for almost 24 hours? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhWb-8A-xJs&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Mr. Doom]

THREE!
not one, not two, but three?
jesus this guy needs to learn how to learn you know. was one of them the castle seige gimmick?
also does anyone know if the eruption gimmick works on the fungi on brinstar? could be epic edgeguarding traps on characters that are half forced to get up normally on that stage as they will have that hitbox there regardless of what they do XD

Yes, it was one of those CS gimmicks, but I pulled it off on the fungi on Brinstar. The first one I just slightly charged it and let it go when MK was approaching, and he got hit. Second time he got hit when it was a little over halfway charged. And the third one I fully charged it, MK waited for a moment, ran in, and got hit. 'Died young at age 50.

Ussi, you forgot to include SDI in bottom tier since mine sucks.

Oh shoot. Time for work. 'Grabbin' a 5-hour energy drink and heading off.

 

[Heartstring]

oh wow, i think thats another valid reason to include brinstar in our good cp's list XD

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Dsmash? I have never heard of this move.

 

[Ussi]

i hope you recorded the match

 

[Zatchiel]

Well, I use pummel now. To add, I think I'm going to start playing Shiek as a secondary. Learned a lot from playing with Billy.

 

[Heartstring]

Well, I use pummel now. To add, I think I'm going to start playing Shiek as a secondary. Learned a lot from playing with Billy.

sheik is a decent secondary to ike as far as other mid tiers go
learn the ftilt string that works on ikes worst matchups and learn to grab release dacus on mk and youre fairly close to in XD

 

[benaji261!]

Dude I mindgame with Quick Draw all the time. That needs to be higher. When you're charging it, most people I play put on shield and I time when it looks like they're about to jump, then I land it. It's definitely a good move.

 

[Zatchiel]

Why are you intentionally attacking with Quick Draw onstage.

 

[benaji261!]

Why are you intentionally attacking with Quick Draw onstage.

I don't do it a lot. Only when it'd seem like a random time to do it.

EDIT: It's hard for me to explain. :/

 

[Ussi]

Quick draw is great to attack someone who failed to tech. Reaches them whether they roll away and they can't attack or get up without being vulnerable.

 

[san.]

I had less than a few hours sleep over two days due to school assignments when going to a Massachusetts tourney last year. Had to sit on the floor cause I was too tired to stand up and find a seat lol.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Uber Tier:
Jab 1

Top Tier:
Nair
Bair
Jab 2
Jab 3

High Tier:
Fair
Dash Attack
Bthrow
Uair
Usmash

Mid Tier:
Utilt
Fthrow
Pummel
Ftilt
Dair
Dthrow

Low Tier:
Aether
Counter
Fsmash
Eruption
Dtilt

Bottom Tier
Quick Draw
Uthrow
Dsmash

 

[Ussi]

I'm the only one who considers recovery to be important in move use i guess :x

Everyone is so usmash happy

I'm surprised you think fthrow is more useful than dthrow considering how much bthrow overshadows it.

Everyone seems to have moves in the same general tier or order.. Though i'm the only one who thinks usmash isn't that great.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm the only one who considers recovery to be important in move use i guess :x

Everyone is so usmash happy

I'm surprised you think fthrow is more useful than dthrow considering how much bthrow overshadows it.

Everyone seems to have moves in the same general tier or order.. Though i'm the only one who thinks usmash isn't that great.

Fthrows allows for more wall infinties/more Dash Attack follow up options. Dthrow has nothing guaranteed.

Usmash is amazing.

 

[theeboredone]

I've actually found a lot of uses for QD. It's what I like to do when I play on wifi. Use eruption and QD randomly.

QD comes out fairly quick, so if you know how to use it, it's essentially free 10 damage or a good way to get into someone's face. As Ussi mentioned, good to use if someone fails to tech or is trying to get up.