Ike Boards General/Q&A Thread

[Ussi]

Since this week's color is red, i will link stuff in cyan for now

 

[san.]

Jab-> utilt *****. I need to learn to do this 100% and not mess it up sometimes. It's pretty much a guaranteed kill on lightweights at 105% and heavyweights closer to 130-140.


About the throws, I can get a few in a row at low %, but I still need a human to fully test this. Practical application would be to get a few chain throws in and end with bthrow dash attack.

Fthrow is an enigma. I don't know if it is amazing and works or if it doesn't. I just can't tell. I am not very consistent with buffering and inputs, so no way for me to tell. When I friendly people later on, I'll see what I can do.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Ussi, the week is almost over. A bit too late starting to use red as text color don't you think?

 

[Ussi]

My weeks start on Friday

 

[AN(M)ist]

To Ussi about QD trap....... seriously, do you think that is viable? Because I am beginning to think it is.

 

[Ussi]

If they can't roll behind you it actually is legit.

 

[AN(M)ist]

alright,,,, lets look into some options here:


opponent falls on the edge, Ike starts his QD out of their attack range. Kinda like 2/3 of the stage distance away.

1) If opponent stands up, we time the QD to hit.

2) If opponent back rolls, we time the QD to hit or to get close so we can jab/grab.

3) If opponent does a getup attack, we time the QD to hit.

4) If opponent rolls back, we'll be waiting with QD if they end up in front; and if they end up behind, we let go of QD and get out of harm's way.

One thing I wanna confirm: If opponent rolls IN you (like roll and getup at the place where you are standing or just touching your back), will QD connect? becoz I've seen QD connect if the opponent touches the front side of Ike's body but I'm not sure if they r touching his back. will QD attack, whiff or just go straight?

 

[Ussi]

whiff, that's why its only good if they can't roll behind you

 

[AN(M)ist]

so that sets us to charge QD a little more than half the stage length. now, how can Ike make his opponent fall near the edge?

 

[-RedX-]

Fthrow/Bthrow.
I brought this up a long time ago and I only find it useful against fast fallers.
Falco/Fox/Wolf/Falcon/etc.

 

[AN(M)ist]

also what about DA at some low percents? more often than not for me DA has always put opponents on ground a fair distance away for ike (ideal for QD trap near the edge if u ask me)

 

[san.]

Fast fall lag cancel QD to the ground/platform is fun to use imo. Makes you look fast. Usually people don't fast fall when they QD.

I try to do the true pivot and small pivot jab stuff and I just can't get it consistent.. I'll try to learn it next week I suppose.

 

[Senliten]

lol all this QD talk, after I thought that we thought it had very limited use.
Does that mean we can see perk talks about counter soon perhaps?

 

[san.]

If you get sent towards the corner, momentum cancel, then counter to stop yourself from fast-falling.
I guess you can try to use breverse counter to move yourself offstage..

Welp, that's all from me.

 

[Nysyarc]

I never thought of using it to stop fast-falling, may have to try that. I pretty much never use Counter, I may have used it once in the last ~30 matches I've played.

And it's funny how my plans always work out, lol. Finally off today, so I'll get some stuff done in my thread.

 

[Senliten]

Oddly enough Nys, I am more the opposite. It is a sort of must do when a situation can pull it off. Like falling to a ledge with someone charging an USmash or something. Use counter and fast fall during the process for a much rewarding pleasure of watching your opponent fly the other way.

It's risky, but pulling it off is so pleasing, in a sadistic sort of way XD

 

[Ussi]

if someone is charging an attack as we land, falling counter.. There a point we can counter and fall into range.


Counter works to incase airdodging will just get you hit. Its a good stop to aggresive behavior.

 

[Nysyarc]

I don't really like using Counter into a charging smash though, unless I know they have to release it at full charge and I can time that. I find it so easy to read other Ikes and Marths who try to Counter my charged smashes, and to punish by just charging a bit longer, that I never try to go for it myself. It just seems way too obvious and unsafe when you can land out of their range and just punish with something else after they miss.

 

[AN(M)ist]

what happened to that reverse counter draw momentum research that Yagami was doing? the one in which Ike slides with QD a little above the ground and counters while sliding in the opposite direction. There was a video on this too, dunno where its at.

 

[Nysyarc]

It was determined to be pretty useless I believe. I think it's even more useless now that we know QD will auto-cancel if used the right distance above the ground. Basically if you're using QD onto the stage in such a way that it's putting you close enough to danger and punishment to warrant using a reverse Counter to quickly retreat, you shouldn't be using the QD on the stage in the first place.

And a situation where the Counter would actually connect would be extremely rare... unless your opponent was in the air above you when you used the QD, you'd have to go through them and then reverse Counter back towards them.

 

[AN(M)ist]

well yeah but Yagami set out to find whether doing a reverse counter shifts your momentum in the opposite direction IN AIR (the eg. of which was this B-reverse counter draw on ground just to show that there may be a possibility of this happening in air). I believe he wanted to find that when Ike is thrown in a direction, doing a reverse counter (or something like that) will shift whole of Ike's momentum in the opposite direction.

I wanna know if anything was researched about that...

 

[Berserker Swordsman]

If I'm understanding the physics behind this, that sounds like Bucket Braking, but with a momentum shift instead of a complete stop....which sounds beyond the realm of even Brawl physics.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Everybody tried it. It just sends you further offstage. I've died to it several times and decided it shouldn't be tried again.

Hmmm. Uses for counter.
Step 1. Read someone.
Step 2. Counter.
?????
PROFIT

Also. Countering charged smashes? Wait just outside of range. About half-3/4 of the way through their smash, jump in their direction and immediately counter. The jump makes it faster because you can't run and counter and it's easier/faster to input than a walk and counter.

I really do think you guys underrate counter.

 

[theeboredone]

My main use of counter is when I'm hanging on the edge, and decide to get up counter on a charging smash. Works like a charm.

 

[AN(M)ist]

@brett: sends you further offstage?... you mean when you just counter after being thrown out, or you spotdodge -> counter after being thrown out?
For the latter, I believe you will stop on your tracks if you counter normally (just like bucket braking). and I think spot-dodge is necessary to recover quickly from the blast as none of the b-moves for any character comes out immediately after they are blown.

I like counter from ledge too; done it so many times against a DDD charging his forward smash.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If you counter in an attempt to momentum cancel after a hit, you will go farther like you do if you try that with Fox's Shine. Been tested to death already, it's why we tried to do reverse counter to go the other way. Counter will stop your normal jumping momentum though.

And I like counter. Gotten several kills with it in tournament. :D D3 was charging Fsmash on the ledge, I ledgehop'd a Counter. He went off the otherside of the screen.

 

[Berserker Swordsman]

I've found it's really good against characters that like to do shorthop aerials (Marth, MK, Ness, etc.). All you have to do is make a read on the jump >.>

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I try not to counter too much, but I see myself do it when I could have done something else. I did manage to do stage shenanigans on Norfair with the lava. PS->counter etc. And I thought counter slowed down vertical movement and not as much horizontal movement.

 

[Nysyarc]

I try not to counter too much, but I see myself do it when I could have done something else.

This is my issue, and why I don't use Counter basically at all. If I mess up a Counter in a critical moment I'd seriously regret it. I'd usually rather just play it safe and punish with attacks that don't leave me as vulnerable if I fail/get read.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Then you're missing out on a move that can potentially wreck the opponent's confidence. It's a fairly large slap to the face if you get Counter'd by Ike. It says "Not only did I read your next move, I read it so well I could use Counter against it. You know, the slowest counter move in the game that Ikes rarely ever use? You sir, suck." They are a lot more likely to suddenly panic or unsuccessfully mix up their game if you hit them with Counter than if you hit them with Jab. Even more so if you actually kill them with counter.

There is also probably a larger rage inducing factor with Counter than most of Ike's other moves, except maybe Fsmash.

That, and it's just fun to use. >_> <_<

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Imagine getting all your KOs with Counters and Fsmashes. Extra points if you managed to do one with Dsmash, you know, the move that does nothing.

 

[Teh Brettster]

stuff stuff stuff

No. Counter does not bucket brake. Believe me. Believe everyone else who has tested it 2038746520394875203945023948752039486750239452304952340958723094873204958723045897230948572304978 times more than you. It makes you go further away from the stage. It does not work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Dshk1XfDc&feature=related

 

[Heartstring]

the only moves that effectibely halt momentum are G&W down-b, yoshi's side-b and DK's up-b

certain moves slow momentum, like samus down-b and r.o.b's side-b
ikes counter increases momentum however, go do ike's DACIT (dacus with an item) and then counter directly after, you see what i mean

 

[AN(M)ist]

woah easy there brett, there wasn't much talk about this earlier on (not that i remember), only about Yagami and his research of which he posted no real conclusion, so I didn't know.

I've done Ike's dacit a few times, the timing is hard for me for some reason but it always amazes me how far he slides with it.

 

[Heartstring]

woah easy there brett, there wasn't much talk about this earlier on (not that i remember), only about Yagami and his research of which he posted no real conclusion, so I didn't know.

I've done Ike's dacit a few times, the timing is hard for me for some reason but it always amazes me how far he slides with it.

then youll know that countering afterwards increases sliding distance regardless of the direction youre pointing in or sliding in, sadly we'll have to deal with mediocre horizontal di

 

[MARLX]

What is the match up between ike and falco?

 

[disasterABDUL]

What is the match up between ike and falco?

this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEO4RYOoilQ

 

[Ussi]

San vs Falco

55:45

Its probably 40:60-45:55 Falco's favor

 

[Berserker Swordsman]

Its probably 40:60-45:55 Falco's favor

I support this statement.

 

[theeboredone]

60:40 for sure. 55:45 is being too generous. Falco can play safer and gayer. We're the ones that have to work hard to get close and do damage. Probably have to make the harder reads as well.

And I just got the trolliest app on my android phone...too good. I can designate how many times I want to send a text message to one person...so imagine getting the same text 50 times.