Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[itsthebigfoot]

Bowser's invincibility is only what, 5 frames long? Ike's spiking frames last longer then that. That, and it's at the end of his attack.

And Ike has the ability to, you know, jump? Twice even. A lot of the time, Bowser isn't going to be high enough to avoid aether. He'd have to fake out Ike to avoid it.

yeah, but it will only gimp at edge level, so jumping would just let bowser live

also, after the 5 frame invin bowser has a hitbox, and he's probably out of range of the spike, i know this works because i've gotten out of the aether spike repeatedly with bowser

 

[Guilhe]

yeah, but it will only gimp at edge level, so jumping would just let bowser live

also, after the 5 frame invin bowser has a hitbox, and he's probably out of range of the spike, i know this works because i've gotten out of the aether spike repeatedly with bowser

The Ike player can let go of the ledge, jump and Aether according to the height you’re recovering. If you take a look at this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVJ-1SRnVPg), you’ll see that it is possible to gimp with Aether much higher than ground level.

The 5 SA frames will only protect you if you use Up B very close to the stage. The Ike player probably wouldn’t attempt to gimp you with Aether if you are recovering that close to the stage.

 

[Kirk]

The Ike player can let go of the ledge, jump and Aether according to the height you’re recovering. If you take a look at this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVJ-1SRnVPg), you’ll see that it is possible to gimp with Aether much higher than ground level.

Answer: Learn to DI.

Sure it's possible...but seriously...just DI.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

I hate the reverse aether gimps. I usually go backwards or air dodge through it but god**** its annoying when you get him with an aether gimp.

 

[choice_brawler]

just wondering, you guys know that the cg - air release fair is also a 0-death on ike right? only bowser doesn't die from it

also, your fair, nair and second jab are unsafe due to upb oos

just thought i'd mention it

upb oos has a large enough hit box at the start up to punish ike's fair? Thats got some huge range. I fight a bowser pretty frequently and my fairs usually keep me safe away from his grab range so no grab release for him.

I agree with the match up being 50-50, i mean really neither character really gots much going on the other. Both are pretty fat, both kill early, and if anyone gets in a grab, the other is screwed for a bit (i feel ike beats bowser in the air and then bowser has his grab releases). Bowser has the bigger grab range but a harder time landing a grab. Of course when he does get one its worse for ike than if ike were to grab bowser. I just dont see much going for either character, and bowser's recovery is definitely versatile enough to avoid being gimped by ike for the most part.

 

[hyperhopper]

are you sure you wanna ride this train?

i am now very scared

 

[Ussi]

let's do sheik now.

 

[•Col•]

i am now very scared

Dude.............................. That was posted months ago.............. >_>

 

[Collective of Bears]

And Ike has the ability to, you know, jump? Twice even. A lot of the time, Bowser isn't going to be high enough to avoid aether. He'd have to fake out Ike to avoid it.

Unless you're spamming Aether, it's not really important enough to make a difference in the matchup as a whole.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Dude.............................. That was posted months ago.............. >_>

maybe he saw it in my signature lol.

Unless you're spamming Aether, it's not really important enough to make a difference in the matchup as a whole.

Seriously? I feel bad calling you an idiot because its insulting to describe you with the English language.

 

[§leepy God]

let's do sheik now.

♪ I'll say Sheik and Zelda, unless you want to talk Sheik first then Zelda. As far as the Bowser match up, I haven't faced enough Bowser mains to tell my story. ♪

 

[•Col•]

♪ I'll say Sheik and Zelda, unless you want to talk Sheik first then Zelda. As far as the Bowser match up, I haven't faced enough Bowser mains to tell my story. ♪

We already did Zelda... <_<

And uh... When is Light gonna write all the matchup things up? o_O;; They're starting to stack up.

 

[YagamiLight]

Sheik it is, then.

I'll have it up tomorrow guys. Good night.

 

[MrEh]

I heard something about a chaingrab on Bowser.

Explanation please. ^^

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Basically, Ike has a frame perfect B-throw chaingrab on Bowser from 0-48%. After 48%, Bowser can use his Up-B to get out (assuming he's frame perfect on his end). At around 60%, it's kinda funny if Ike can grab Bowser again or not. Like, if he doesn't react, he won't get grabbed again, but if he tries to sidestep, he will get grabbed....

Check the discussion topic for the full info on the last bit.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172830&page=105

From there onwards.

 

[YagamiLight]

Yeah, Bowser's land animation is a bit awkward, so to get him to 60% with the CG alone requires guessing games from both ends.

Up to 45% with Bthrow is guaranteed, however. This is promptly followed by another Bthrow to Dash Attack combo which brings the total up to 56%. If Ike gets a pummel in anywhere, it's pretty much 60%.

 

[B!squick]

Well, I can't really dispute frame data. Once I stop being being lazy I'll test it for myself. Regardless, I think we have something to think about when we get to Ike on our match up thread... sometime next year at rate we're going, lol.

 

[MrEh]

Check the discussion topic for the full info on the last bit.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172830&page=105

From there onwards.

Thanks, I just read it. Looks legit. ^^

Does anyone know what the higheest percent that the chaingrab can start at?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Thanks, I just read it. Looks legit. ^^

Does anyone know what the higheest percent that the chaingrab can start at?

As far as I know: anytime below 45% it should work.....

Even if it has to be below like, 10%. Jab -> Grab makes it all too easy.

 

[MrEh]

As far as I know: anytime below 45% it should work....

*cracks knuckles*

Testing time...

 

[Ussi]

IMO, I hope this CG is not true :\ I'd prefer to not have a CG as an option against a character.. But if it ends up being a true CG, I'm not holding back on it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I want a chain grab on Pikachu, Falco and D3.

Revenge time baby!

 

[YagamiLight]

I want a chain grab on Pikachu, Falco and D3.

Revenge time baby!

Until then you'll have to make do with Bthrow to Dash Attack combos on those guys.

Still pretty good, no?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Until then you'll have to make do with Bthrow to Dash Attack combos on those guys.

Still pretty good, no?

It doesn't annoy them enough.

Anyhow, just remembered something odd: a while ago I was looking for chaingrabs with Bthrow. For some odd reason, I remember Ivysaur looking likely.

Do you mind checking? It's probably me being clueless, but still....

 

[YagamiLight]

It doesn't annoy them enough.

Anyhow, just remembered something odd: a while ago I was looking for chaingrabs with Bthrow. For some odd reason, I remember Ivysaur looking likely.

Do you mind checking? It's probably me being clueless, but still....

Ivysaur can jump out like right before she/he/it/who knows hits the ground.

 

[Guilhe]

What? Bthrow to dash attack is a true combo? In which characters?

 

[YagamiLight]

What? Bthrow to dash attack is a true combo? In which characters?

Most characters and at varying percents. Tell me who you want to find out the percents for.

 

[Guilhe]

Well, everyone or anyone. Any information on that is appreciated.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Corneria isn't a legal counterpick anymore : / At least I think

Should we fix the counterpicks if so?

**Doom sports his new sig and Avi

 

[•Col•]

Corneria isn't a legal counterpick anymore : / At least I think

It looks like Pirate Ship may be banned too.

Sucks for Ike... ;-;

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What? Where.

I swear, if Pirate Ship is being taken off.....

 

[Guilhe]

That ruleset seems very interesting. Pirate ship might have been banned, but so was JJ, no harm was done here.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Oh, wait, you mean that stupid thing that Umbreon came up with? That's nowhere near official.

 

[Rykoshet]

AZ has pointed out that as time progresses, the players who dont crutch obviously broken stages (including RC, sorry) will develop a better sense of play and do better in general. I'm all for stage gimmicks but corneria/greens/ship/japes/norfair have loooooooooooong since been banned here, dunno what sort of honorable players you still have there but we gayed those stages ages ago.

AN really does have the most strict stage list all around, but in the end it's honestly for the best.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

AZ has pointed out that as time progresses, the players who dont crutch obviously broken stages (including RC, sorry) will develop a better sense of play and do better in general. I'm all for stage gimmicks but corneria/greens/ship/japes/norfair have loooooooooooong since been banned here, dunno what sort of honorable players you still have there but we gayed those stages ages ago.

AN really does have the most strict stage list all around, but in the end it's honestly for the best.

I live in Texas. Lots of good players around. We probably have the loosest legal stage list. All of the levels you listed are perfectly legal. They make good CP stages. They should be left in.

 

[YagamiLight]

I live in Texas. Lots of good players around. We probably have the loosest legal stage list. All of the levels you listed are perfectly legal. They make good CP stages. They should be left in.

I think it's a matter of opinion. If you believe tourneys should reward pure skill of a player with his/her character then you will have a rather small CP list with an even smaller neutral list. If, however, you believe that people should learn and apply complex stage knowledge to match-ups then you'll have as liberal a stage list as possible without going overboard.

 

[•Col•]

It seems like as time goes on, more people want to ban Pirate Ship. -_- Mostly cuz of the bombs...

I don't understand it though... For the Genesis ruleset system... The majority of the people who have voted so far have voted to have it banned... But for Pictochat, it's like 50/50 on both sides....

Seriously... People think Pirate Ship is worse than Pictochat? W.T.F.


Which reminds me.... All of you Ike mains go to the Genesis tournament thread, and find the link to their forums. Sign up on their forums. Go to the Ruleset disscusion. Click the topic "
Should Pirate Ship be a Counterpick stage for Brawl? ". Click Yes. Click vote.

Do eet.

 

[Guilhe]

But Colaya, Pictochat may have many hazards, but none of them is as deadly as the bombs or as exploitable as the water.

 

[MrEh]

It's sort of like Norfair. People always want it banned because of the hazards.

OH NOEZ! PREDICTABLE HAZARDS ARE SO SCARY!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's sort of like Norfair. People always want it banned because of the hazards.

OH NOEZ! PREDICTABLE HAZARDS ARE SO SCARY!

Except Norfair is worse. I've had it so the lava rose, so there was only the two platforms remaining, and then they both got sprayed on by fire. O_o The lava was starting to drop by the time the second platform got hit, but still, sheesh.