Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[MrEh]

In any case, regardless of how heavy Bowser is, nobody wants an extra 10% against a powerhouse, do they?

If 10% is the risk for landing a Fire Breath, then I'd take it in a second.

Fire is just too good.

 

[Ussi]

It's their choice Light.. their choice. We punish according.

 

[MrEh]

I really wish I had recordings of my matches with Lucky...

We forgot to record that day. ><

 

[B!squick]

Well, I recently noticed Gimpyfish is picking up Ike. *sad face* Does anyone know why he doesn't play Brawl Bowser? And to keep this on topic: Gimpy playing on team Ike is an auto loss for Bowser, lol.

 

[Phantom7]

Ike VS Bowser, what a great matchup! Ike's aire attacks would destroy him, but Bowser's sspecial would destroy Ike... I could see Ike winning, though, maybe helicopter havocing Bowser off the top or ssmashinh him trying to recover, or bairing him at the end of Bowser's ssmash, i don't know.

 

[Royta]

It all depends what you controle I think, I mained both bowser and ike in brawl and pretty much this is what comes up for me:

You can, with a little prediction, do jab - > aether. This does quite a bit of damage and is actually quite safe to use on Bowser when predicted well. Be mindfull not to get shielded.
Also Fire has the ability to royaly destroy our recovery, that's another point.

Rest has pretty much been said, avoid the fire, don't get grabbed, and space like a true Ike user should!!
Oh yeah and jab ***** the **** out of him xD but again, mindfull of the grabs. One slip up = major punishment!

For counter picks, corneria could be a double-edged sword since he kills early of the top there with upB and uptilt. Safest bet would be pokemon stadium melee I think, that 2nd edge could **** him and we have 2 infinites there against the walls. The platforms help too.

@ Jaydeth, Bowser was almost high tier in the first tier list, and gimpyfish mainly wants to use 'suckage' characters. Atleast that's what his smasher page said on that smash-wiki thingy ;p

 

[Kimchi]

If a Bowser grabs me, what I like to do is wait for the ground grab release and just start pressing A and Bowser can't even get close to me to grab me again. Otherwise, if Bowser doesn't pull out that Ftilt of his or his claw attacks, then Ike's jabs should win. Grab Air release is an entirely different story though. Approaching Bowser is... rather a challenge. Even if you hit Bowser's shield with the tip of Fair, you'll still get punished by that Whirling Fortress out of shield that Bowser can do. It completely outclasses almost all of Ike's approach options such as Dash attack, Fair, and Neutral Air. I tend to see a lot of Bowsers love to approach the Ike first with their shield and see what the Ike does. If the Ike attacks, then Bowser simply performs Whirling Fortress out of his shield. However, if the Ike doesn't attack, the Bowser just grabs Ike. Therefore, I consider this matchup a jab as well as a grab game. Like Gen said, if a Bowser is caught in jabs, it's extremely difficult for the Bowser to counter it. Ike's jab cancels on Bowser are absolutely ridiculous. I'd say you can rack up at the very least, 30%. Also, since approach options for Ike against a Bowser are rather hopeless, I would run up to the Bowser and grab him first. Ike's ground grab release on Bowser is not too shabby. If I remember correctly, Bowser stays just within Ike's jab range and you could immediately start jab cancelling Bowser to oblivion. Overall, if the Bowser gets near Ike, it's going to be hell for Ike if the Bowser predicts his attacks easily. Therefore, it's very important for spacing in this matchup.

 

[san.]

How effective is a spaced full hop fair on bowser when approaching? Could that still easily be punishable by bowser's Whirling Fortress or another attack? Bowser should be big enough to be in range from such an attack.

 

[MrEh]

If a Bowser grabs me, what I like to do is wait for the ground grab release and just start pressing A and Bowser can't even get close to me to grab me again. Otherwise, if Bowser doesn't pull out that Ftilt of his or his claw attacks, then Ike's jabs should win.

...

If Bowser times his grab releases perfectly, then there's nothing you can do about it. You can't stop his grab release attacks with a Jab when Bowser's attacks hit Ike before the Jab even comes out. ><

How effective is a spaced full hop fair on bowser when approaching? Could that still easily be punishable by bowser's Whirling Fortress or another attack? Bowser should be big enough to be in range from such an attack.

If it's spaced, then it's not punishable. If your spacing is iffy, then you get hit by the Fortress..

 

[Ussi]

...

If Bowser times his grab releases perfectly, then there's nothing you can do about it. You can't stop his grab release attacks with a Jab when Bowser's attacks hit Ike before the Jab even comes out. ><

Less informed people who have brawled people who are not good. We all have them.

 

[Kimchi]

Less informed people who have brawled people who are not good. We all have them.

So you're saying Liquid Gen is not good? And I was merely posting about what works for me in the matchup. If that makes me less informed, I rest my case. In response to MrEh, maybe it was because of the Wi-Fi latency? It probably will go the way like you said it offline. I apologize for forgetting to mention Wi-Fi.

 

[MrEh]

So you're saying Liquid Gen is not good? And I was merely posting about what works for me in the matchup. If that makes me less informed, I rest my case. In response to MrEh, maybe it was because of the Wi-Fi latency? It probably will go the way like you said it offline. I apologize for forgetting to mention Wi-Fi.

Well if it's Wifi, then that explains it.

Wifi makes grab releases near impossible to work.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Kimchi you can't bring in wifi experience to match up threads. This is about tournaments not friendlies and wifi tournaments don't counter either.

Does whirling fortress punish an auto canceled Bair? I'm find these awfully save when I use them.

 

[MrEh]

Does whirling fortress punish an auto canceled Bair? I'm find these awfully save when I use them.

I believe it does. It might be possible to avoid the Fortress if you space it well though.

 

[Royta]

totally offtopic but oh well

@ MrEh, where is your sig from? I .. remember it xD

On topic, can't we easily aetherspike Bowser by intercepting his fortress with our upB( during his recovery ofcourse)? Or is that out of the question?

 

[Liquid Gen]

totally offtopic but oh well

@ MrEh, where is your sig from? I .. remember it xD

On topic, can't we easily aetherspike Bowser by intercepting his fortress with our upB( during his recovery ofcourse)? Or is that out of the question?

If we're recovering high enough, sure.


I really doubt a Bowser will do that though.

 

[Royta]

hmm true that, even a reverse aether of the edge should be a little tricky since bowser is probably gonna come diagonally from below ;/

oh well just a thought;p

 

[Liquid Gen]

Yeah. I imagine a better choice would be bair or dtilt; maybe dair.

 

[NinjaLink]

no. If ike is perfect, bowser can not come back. U can aether spike at edge level. I do it to DK all the time and bowsers is the same.......actually easier to do.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

It's pretty much the same thing as all the Ike's who do walk off Dairs. You just stand at the ledge and drop down. Only difference is your dropping down first then using your move after wards. It's actually really easy to land since bowser has no where to go but side ways and your sword will be there to intercept him.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

Well if u attempt a walk off like that you'll fast fall and head to your doom. Thats why u set the c- stick to tilt attacks so u c-stick the downA and u won't fast fall. I don't do it alot but only bcuz i just started getting use to it.

 

[B!squick]

I do Dairs all the time with the C-Stick without fast falling. >.>

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

you s missed the point you need to set Cstick to tilt other wise you won't be able to fall and aether off the stage with out dying. thats what emperor was talking about -_-

/sarcasm.

The c stick has nothing to do with this.

 

[Fizz-sama]

Off subject, but YagamiLight...don't you play T5DR? Your name sounds familiar.

(I'll actually read the thread more later and try to contribute.)

 

[YagamiLight]

Off subject, but YagamiLight...don't you play T5DR? Your name sounds familiar.

(I'll actually read the thread more later and try to contribute.)

Not the same person, no.


In any case, I'm thinking about switching characters. Anyone object?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Sheik now please. Because I can't think of who else we are missing...

 

[YagamiLight]

I believe we are missing Sheik, Ness, Donkey Kong, Mario, Captain Falcon, Kirby and regular Samus.

 

[Fizz-sama]

Is this topic open for Brawl+ match ups as well? If so, I'd like to suggest C. Falcon.

 

[Ussi]

I have DK already summed up in another thread.. >_>.. two threads actually..

I vote Shiek

 

[MysticKenji]

Kirby and DK actually matter, one of them should be next.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Is this topic open for Brawl+ match ups as well? If so, I'd like to suggest C. Falcon.

Um...no. There's no hax in this thread.

 

[DUB]

Diddy boards doing the Ike matchup right now. Drop by if ya got the time.

 

[Vyse]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181638&page=51

There you go

 

[Fizz-sama]

Um...no. There's no hax in this thread.

Alright, just thought I'd ask. In any case, then I'd say Sheik instead.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

just wondering, you guys know that the cg - air release fair is also a 0-death on ike right? only bowser doesn't die from it

also, your fair, nair and second jab are unsafe due to upb oos

just thought i'd mention it

 

[Rykoshet]

You act like ike getting comboed and dying for it is a new concept. We have a guaranteed gimp on you, the match is over.

Edit: In reality it's a 50-50, don't run in as ike and expect to take someone like bum out, but otherwise there's no reason you should be sweating the fight. Space with bair if you need to, buffer jabs the other way, di into the floor and shield if he uses up B, gimp him with aether.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

i never said it was new, i'm just reminding you that it happens.

everyone knows falco can camp with lasers all day, that still affects his matchups

also, what's the guaranteed gimp? this?

If ike is perfect, bowser can not come back. U can aether spike at edge level. I do it to DK all the time and bowsers is the same.......actually easier to do.

that works on dk, but bowser can mash upb and have his invincibility frames clank with the spike hit, so no, it isn't a guaranteed gimp. it works on dk cause his upb invin comes out frame 4, but bowser is frame 1.

also, that is only at edge level, he can still recover high, and you'd still need to be perfectly set up to do it, you probably will get 1 gimp a game doing that, there is ways around it (perfect example, don't go for the ledge if he's aethering right there, recover a little higher so you live)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bowser's invincibility is only what, 5 frames long? Ike's spiking frames last longer then that. That, and it's at the end of his attack.

And Ike has the ability to, you know, jump? Twice even. A lot of the time, Bowser isn't going to be high enough to avoid aether. He'd have to fake out Ike to avoid it.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Bowser's invincibility is only what, 5 frames long? Ike's spiking frames last longer then that. That, and it's at the end of his attack.

And Ike has the ability to, you know, jump? Twice even. A lot of the time, Bowser isn't going to be high enough to avoid aether. He'd have to fake out Ike to avoid it.

This.

Besides which, while Bowser CAN get a grab-release to fair on Ike, it's by no means a 0-death thing.

 

[Rykoshet]

The 50-50 was for dk (and I don't even actually believe that, I think we win that match), we have the advantage on bowser.