SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
DAM YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!
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Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness
- Thread starter YagamiLight
- Start date
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
online? its like the blind leading the blind.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
Cryptic, AB, very cryptic.
Until people from across the country want to come to my house to play Brawl, the only way to accomplish to goal is to use online
Blind as a Zubat.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
Light, just where exactly in CA do you live?Cryptic, AB, very cryptic.
Until people from across the country want to come to my house to play Brawl, the only way to accomplish to goal is to use online
Kinzer
Mammy
I cosign what Light said, and...
You want to go let the Yoshis know about this, or shall somebody else go send the word...or should we just theory craft this? XD
You want to go let the Yoshis know about this, or shall somebody else go send the word...or should we just theory craft this? XD
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
A very strategic location, South Bay Area. Far enough away from both San Francisco and San Jose to make going to tourneys there a gigantic hassle (a bit less than 1.5 hours for San Fran...) and around 5 hours from LA and 7.5 from SD.
You can inform them, if you'd like.
Kinzer
Mammy
Okay, I'll just tell them and give 'em the link...my intorwebz is being really slow to not allow for creativity.
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
Yoshi obviously ate old manondorf and stole his spot in the discussion
Just finished a few rounds with light and he told me to come post up here, so here goes my impressions on the matchup.
Yoshi's main advantage in this matchup is his ability to combo Ike pretty well, but he suffers more than alot of other characters in that Ike kills ALOT faster than Yoshi will, we will always need to get you alot higher for a kill than well need to be to die.
Yoshi's Bair is something to watch out for, as its harder to shield grab than most people think, and easily leads into ftilt/utilt combos or grabs.
Ftilt gets outranged by everything but your jab, but comes out very fast and leads into combos as well.
Upsmash can ko at higher percentages, however if it is stale/you are at lower percentages (Such as after a kill before dying) It can combo into itself quite well, and has nice range when sliding.
Fsmash is less useful in this matchup, and can only reliably be used to punish your whiffed smashes, and still isn't impossible to survive until rather high up.
Dsmash comes out fast and does the things a Dsmash is supposed to do, such as get people away, not too much to say here.
Uair is one of yoshis main ko options, but outranged by your Dair, if i remember correctly, although super armor can still go through your Dair to kill you.
Dair is dangerous for you to take off the edge, and can easily kill you unless you are close to the edge and have your double jump, as well as dealing good damage while you are on the stage, and leading into nairs. Its worth it to note that if Yoshi lands his Dair you'll most likely be able to jab him immediately after you hit the floor unless it trips you.
Nair works well coming in from an angle on the stage, and seem to hit a bit of a blind spot for ike, as well as non sweetspotted nairs being able to edgeguard if you aren't careful
I've found the Fair to be almost useless in this matchup except occasionally to punish a laggy aerial, in which case it often leads into usmashes or a usmash to uair. The fair has a hard time spiking out of aether or quick draw.
Egg roll will clash with most of your moves, although your Dair (And maybe Fair) Will hit through it, i think jab combos can continue to hit it
Yoshi bomb kills you in the low hundreds, and can often shield stab or hit after spot dodging the first attack, but is worthless unless grounded. Also be careful, as its not too uncommon for the yoshi bomb to break a shield and lead to a fully charged smash(Or just another yoshi bomb)
Egg lay is almost worthless in this matchup, due to the range of ikes attack, although i might see it being able to stop quick draw if timed well.
Egg toss is an insane damage dealer, especially if you aren't familiar with them. Your best chance to get around them is to get to the floor as fast as possible and try to run or quick draw under them.
Eggs juggle well, and can hit you out of aether if you are messing around with it on the edge too much.
They can also disrupt QD recoverys quite well, which won't kill you, but can rack up damage very fast.
Yoshi's grabs can disrupt pretty much all of Ike's attacks, and the chaingrab can lead to a release dair which you will need to watch out for, as i'm pretty sure its avoidable. Other than that, i mainly use the grab to f/bthrow ike and then egg spam away, i'm fairly sure there is some downthrow combos that you should b on the watch for as well.
Yoshis jab is also something to watch out for as it comes out very fast and can lead into yoshi bombs or grabs. His dash can also lead into grabs.
Yoshi's best approach here is probably bair, or not to approach and wait with eggs.
As far as Ike goes:
I have very much fear of Ike's Usmash. it kills from low percents, and is great as an edgeguard, a punisher, and occasionally even works as an approach. Although i'm sure i'm not telling you guys anything you don't know here.
Ike's jab and quickdraw to jab are usually your best options if you plan on hitting yoshi before he hits you, by which i mean if your close and neither of you is in lag its your only attack that is fast enough to get through
Ftilt is probably your best option to punish yoshis lag, and quickdraw ftilts work occasionally.
Ike's Uair cuts through both the flutter kick and the yoshi bomb and will usually net a kill if you can hit either of those, but watch out for air dodge to Uair
Fair and i believe Nair beat Yoshi's Bair, and well spaced can stop most of Yoshi's aproaches.
Ike's dash attack can kill at high percents, but otherwise will easily lead to either you getting grabbed out of it, punished for missing, or too far from Yoshi to follow with anything, its probably most useful to stop egg throws, as an alternative to a QD jab or a grab
Ike's best edgeguarding option on yoshi would be either the dtilt to stop edge canceled eggs, or an upsmash or forward smash to predict an air dodge, there isn't much ike can safely do off the edge without getting punished for it.
Ike's bair doesen't get much usage
Counter would be best used for prediction here, as there isn't really much worth countering, just avoid the urge to counter eggs, as you will almost invariably eat either another egg or a running upsmash
Ike's grabs against Yoshi are best used just to mix things up, and don't do anything particularly nasty to him.
Ike's best approaches here are probably fair or QD to jab, although the dash attack and spot dodges can also be useful
There probably isn't much else about your upsmash or fsmash that i can tell you guys, so i won't try.
My general view on the stages in this matchup: both Yoshi and Ike like low vertical blast lines, but Yoshi has a bit of an advantage as far as vertical goes. Ike benefits more from closer horizontal blast zones than Yoshi does.
Platforms are generally to Yoshi's advantage, as they can impede Ike's movement in getting away from eggs, and often make it easier to combo him. Note however, that platforms stop yoshis chaingrab, and both Yoshi and Ike can upsmash through battlefield style platforms. You most likely want to avoid delfino as much as possible.
You want to restrict yoshis movement as much as possible, so FD and smashville hurt a bit, but corneria lets you camp on the bottom, as his eggs don't have the vertical drop distance they once did. (Also remember the chaingrab)
Smaller stages would be Ike's best friend here, i would say frigate orpheon, but im assuming the obnoxious edges would hurt Ike more than Yoshi.
Just finished a few rounds with light and he told me to come post up here, so here goes my impressions on the matchup.
Yoshi's main advantage in this matchup is his ability to combo Ike pretty well, but he suffers more than alot of other characters in that Ike kills ALOT faster than Yoshi will, we will always need to get you alot higher for a kill than well need to be to die.
Yoshi's Bair is something to watch out for, as its harder to shield grab than most people think, and easily leads into ftilt/utilt combos or grabs.
Ftilt gets outranged by everything but your jab, but comes out very fast and leads into combos as well.
Upsmash can ko at higher percentages, however if it is stale/you are at lower percentages (Such as after a kill before dying) It can combo into itself quite well, and has nice range when sliding.
Fsmash is less useful in this matchup, and can only reliably be used to punish your whiffed smashes, and still isn't impossible to survive until rather high up.
Dsmash comes out fast and does the things a Dsmash is supposed to do, such as get people away, not too much to say here.
Uair is one of yoshis main ko options, but outranged by your Dair, if i remember correctly, although super armor can still go through your Dair to kill you.
Dair is dangerous for you to take off the edge, and can easily kill you unless you are close to the edge and have your double jump, as well as dealing good damage while you are on the stage, and leading into nairs. Its worth it to note that if Yoshi lands his Dair you'll most likely be able to jab him immediately after you hit the floor unless it trips you.
Nair works well coming in from an angle on the stage, and seem to hit a bit of a blind spot for ike, as well as non sweetspotted nairs being able to edgeguard if you aren't careful
I've found the Fair to be almost useless in this matchup except occasionally to punish a laggy aerial, in which case it often leads into usmashes or a usmash to uair. The fair has a hard time spiking out of aether or quick draw.
Egg roll will clash with most of your moves, although your Dair (And maybe Fair) Will hit through it, i think jab combos can continue to hit it
Yoshi bomb kills you in the low hundreds, and can often shield stab or hit after spot dodging the first attack, but is worthless unless grounded. Also be careful, as its not too uncommon for the yoshi bomb to break a shield and lead to a fully charged smash(Or just another yoshi bomb)
Egg lay is almost worthless in this matchup, due to the range of ikes attack, although i might see it being able to stop quick draw if timed well.
Egg toss is an insane damage dealer, especially if you aren't familiar with them. Your best chance to get around them is to get to the floor as fast as possible and try to run or quick draw under them.
Eggs juggle well, and can hit you out of aether if you are messing around with it on the edge too much.
They can also disrupt QD recoverys quite well, which won't kill you, but can rack up damage very fast.
Yoshi's grabs can disrupt pretty much all of Ike's attacks, and the chaingrab can lead to a release dair which you will need to watch out for, as i'm pretty sure its avoidable. Other than that, i mainly use the grab to f/bthrow ike and then egg spam away, i'm fairly sure there is some downthrow combos that you should b on the watch for as well.
Yoshis jab is also something to watch out for as it comes out very fast and can lead into yoshi bombs or grabs. His dash can also lead into grabs.
Yoshi's best approach here is probably bair, or not to approach and wait with eggs.
As far as Ike goes:
I have very much fear of Ike's Usmash. it kills from low percents, and is great as an edgeguard, a punisher, and occasionally even works as an approach. Although i'm sure i'm not telling you guys anything you don't know here.
Ike's jab and quickdraw to jab are usually your best options if you plan on hitting yoshi before he hits you, by which i mean if your close and neither of you is in lag its your only attack that is fast enough to get through
Ftilt is probably your best option to punish yoshis lag, and quickdraw ftilts work occasionally.
Ike's Uair cuts through both the flutter kick and the yoshi bomb and will usually net a kill if you can hit either of those, but watch out for air dodge to Uair
Fair and i believe Nair beat Yoshi's Bair, and well spaced can stop most of Yoshi's aproaches.
Ike's dash attack can kill at high percents, but otherwise will easily lead to either you getting grabbed out of it, punished for missing, or too far from Yoshi to follow with anything, its probably most useful to stop egg throws, as an alternative to a QD jab or a grab
Ike's best edgeguarding option on yoshi would be either the dtilt to stop edge canceled eggs, or an upsmash or forward smash to predict an air dodge, there isn't much ike can safely do off the edge without getting punished for it.
Ike's bair doesen't get much usage
Counter would be best used for prediction here, as there isn't really much worth countering, just avoid the urge to counter eggs, as you will almost invariably eat either another egg or a running upsmash
Ike's grabs against Yoshi are best used just to mix things up, and don't do anything particularly nasty to him.
Ike's best approaches here are probably fair or QD to jab, although the dash attack and spot dodges can also be useful
There probably isn't much else about your upsmash or fsmash that i can tell you guys, so i won't try.
My general view on the stages in this matchup: both Yoshi and Ike like low vertical blast lines, but Yoshi has a bit of an advantage as far as vertical goes. Ike benefits more from closer horizontal blast zones than Yoshi does.
Platforms are generally to Yoshi's advantage, as they can impede Ike's movement in getting away from eggs, and often make it easier to combo him. Note however, that platforms stop yoshis chaingrab, and both Yoshi and Ike can upsmash through battlefield style platforms. You most likely want to avoid delfino as much as possible.
You want to restrict yoshis movement as much as possible, so FD and smashville hurt a bit, but corneria lets you camp on the bottom, as his eggs don't have the vertical drop distance they once did. (Also remember the chaingrab)
Smaller stages would be Ike's best friend here, i would say frigate orpheon, but im assuming the obnoxious edges would hurt Ike more than Yoshi.
Kinzer
Mammy
Want to give any specifics as to why we would want to avoid Delfino? Is it that Yoshi can ground/jump break release Ike to the blastzones on the walk-offs or something? Right now to me, I would probably want to take Yoshi to Delfino just because on the levels with the water. As far as I know, Yoshi has no spike, and has more trouble answering to Ike's vulnerability in the water than vice-versa. If you try and hit us in the water, you'll have to use something like a predicted Yoshi-Bomb, well placed Dair, or Egg toss because Ike can just Aether out of the water. To me that seems like I can't lose there, it sucks Yoshi into the water, and is a spike on it's own since it's hitting the water, thus if it doesn't kill him will set him up for anything Ike wishes to do.
As for neutrals, Yoshi's Island seems to be the best answer to Yoshi (irony much?). I think you said it yourself that they both benefit from low ceiling blastzones, but Ike has an easier time taking out Yoshi by pushing him to the sides than Yoshi taking out Ike in that method, correct? And in this case if Yoshi is more of a vertical killer, than this will severely limit Yoshi's killing methods moreso than Ike will be hampered by the high ceiling. Did I mention Ike has no trouble killing Aether(either) way?
As for neutrals, Yoshi's Island seems to be the best answer to Yoshi (irony much?). I think you said it yourself that they both benefit from low ceiling blastzones, but Ike has an easier time taking out Yoshi by pushing him to the sides than Yoshi taking out Ike in that method, correct? And in this case if Yoshi is more of a vertical killer, than this will severely limit Yoshi's killing methods moreso than Ike will be hampered by the high ceiling. Did I mention Ike has no trouble killing Aether(either) way?
Kinzer
Mammy
Edit: D*** slow internet made me double post here.
I might as well make this more efficient and say that if any Yoshis out there want to challenge my Ike, they are free to do so over Wi-Fi.
I might as well make this more efficient and say that if any Yoshis out there want to challenge my Ike, they are free to do so over Wi-Fi.
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
Yoshi has 2 spikes, the dair would lead into unavoidable fairs into death, similar to repeated down airs on ikes part, however, yoshi has no reason to enter the water(Who would, with ike) And would just pelt you with eggs, at no risk to himself. Delfino has platforms that aid greatly in the throwing of eggs, and the large sizes of most of the moving portions allow yoshi more than enough maneuverability.
On top of that, the bottom of the moving portions allow yoshi more attack options, namely rising Dairs and uairs through the bottom, as well as encouraging edge eggs
On top of that, the bottom of the moving portions allow yoshi more attack options, namely rising Dairs and uairs through the bottom, as well as encouraging edge eggs
Kinzer
Mammy
Ah alright, point proven Naucitos.
So compared to Ike's aerial game, just how good is Yoshi in the air? It seems like Ike's Fair is enough to hit Yoshi out of anything, even Bairs if placed correctly.
So compared to Ike's aerial game, just how good is Yoshi in the air? It seems like Ike's Fair is enough to hit Yoshi out of anything, even Bairs if placed correctly.
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,473
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
- 3DS FC
- 2191-8960-7738
Yoshi's air game is better than ours. He has a much faster mobility with fluid attacks. B-air is a good way to penetrate Ike's defense due to it's fair amount of range and how quick it comes out. F-air is a spike, but Ike shouldn't have to worry about being spiked unless you're being very unattentive.
D-air hurts like a ***** however, and should be shieldgrabbed if you're grounded. If Yoshi is coming from above, expect a D-air. If at high percentages, and Yoshi is below you, expect a U-air. This is the main kill move that always KOs me next to F-Smash because I whiff a U-Smash.
The name of the game here is keeping up. Yoshi is going to be quick and Ike has to be just as quick. SH N-airs and jabs will be your best friend here. I suggest keeping Eruption in your back-pocket to counter attacks like U-air if you're good with your timing, and make good use of Quick Draw and Dash Attack when Yoshi is falling back to the stage.
Don't get hit to the best of your ability. That means make good use of your spacing tools, but most of all, you have to make good use of the fact that Ike is more powerful than Yoshi by a considerable margin. Don't let Yoshi live too long per stock because he'll slowly eat your stock away if you don't.
Stay defensive and aggressive and you'll win.
By the way, don't try to gimp Yoshi. He's like... impossible to gimp due to that super armor. Although, if you attack him onstage with a B-air while he's trying to land, that can send him far enough where his Up-B won't work as his saving grace for him.
D-air hurts like a ***** however, and should be shieldgrabbed if you're grounded. If Yoshi is coming from above, expect a D-air. If at high percentages, and Yoshi is below you, expect a U-air. This is the main kill move that always KOs me next to F-Smash because I whiff a U-Smash.
The name of the game here is keeping up. Yoshi is going to be quick and Ike has to be just as quick. SH N-airs and jabs will be your best friend here. I suggest keeping Eruption in your back-pocket to counter attacks like U-air if you're good with your timing, and make good use of Quick Draw and Dash Attack when Yoshi is falling back to the stage.
Don't get hit to the best of your ability. That means make good use of your spacing tools, but most of all, you have to make good use of the fact that Ike is more powerful than Yoshi by a considerable margin. Don't let Yoshi live too long per stock because he'll slowly eat your stock away if you don't.
Stay defensive and aggressive and you'll win.
By the way, don't try to gimp Yoshi. He's like... impossible to gimp due to that super armor. Although, if you attack him onstage with a B-air while he's trying to land, that can send him far enough where his Up-B won't work as his saving grace for him.
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
actually, unless the bair happens to send you low, the eggs are almost never enough to finish, but they will tend to be easier to edgeguard, and sometimes theres nothing to be done but eat an fsmash off the edge.
And yeah, again, theres the factor that Ike kills Yoshi at around 90, and Yoshi kills Ike around 120-180 >_>
And yeah, again, theres the factor that Ike kills Yoshi at around 90, and Yoshi kills Ike around 120-180 >_>
Kirk
Smash Champion
I demand the_yoshinator make his presence known! He's too good NOT to show up. :D
That, and I'm excited to see him in NY this Saturday!
Also, I HATE Yoshi's eggs...so annoying. I would say more, but...
*goes back to work*
That, and I'm excited to see him in NY this Saturday!
Also, I HATE Yoshi's eggs...so annoying. I would say more, but...
*goes back to work*
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, i might not have spent enough time talking about the eggs, but there wasn't too much that could be said, really XD
Also, i'm pretty sure the yoshinator said he'd show up when he was less tired
Also, i'm pretty sure the yoshinator said he'd show up when he was less tired
Kirk
Smash Champion
Indeed...he's always like that. xD
This weekend I'll finally get to play a Yoshi offline...so that will be fun for sure. Not to mention seeing my good friend for the first time in 7 months.
*is excited*
Also, moreso on topic, are you sure Ike is CG-able? Because in all my matches with Yoshis, I've always been able to jump out before they could regrab. Or are they just doing it wrong? :o
This weekend I'll finally get to play a Yoshi offline...so that will be fun for sure. Not to mention seeing my good friend for the first time in 7 months.
*is excited*
Also, moreso on topic, are you sure Ike is CG-able? Because in all my matches with Yoshis, I've always been able to jump out before they could regrab. Or are they just doing it wrong? :o
You could probably try it yourself.
For a while, people thought that Sonic wasn't CG'able by Yoshi, but I tried buffering the dash (forgot if I also hit grab asap) out of the release animation and I was able to CG just fine.
Kirk
Smash Champion
I would try myself, but I'm currently at work. :/
But thanks for the insight. Perhaps I'll give it a try later. I was just curious. :D
Kimchi
Smash Ace
For Yoshi, I would say if he's throwing an egg at you, time a jab and dispel the egg. Believe it or not, Jabs have incredible priority as well as Ike's QD. (Although, jab might not seem very practical). Silven's combo vid in fact shows QD stopping DDD'S Gordo in its tracks. But anyway, Yoshi is very, very, vulnerable in the air. Approaching Yoshi with F-Air should be fairly easily. However, Yoshi is pretty good at spacing as well and if several of his aerials connect, such as D-Air or B-Air, Yoshi can rack up damage pretty quickly. Spacing is pretty important if you're playing a good Yoshi.
As for Yoshi's CG, truthfully, I have never seen a Yoshi CG before. If someone can show me a video of a Yoshi CGing, I'd gladly offer some more feedback. Back to playing Yoshi though, Yoshi's recovery is very vulnerable. Similarly to DDD, Yoshi's recovery can be punished severely. Yoshi's recovery is only a single jump where he goes "WAAOH". If you time your attack right while you're on the edge waiting for Yoshi to recover, you can knock Yoshi back without his jump. Another way to punish his very predictable recovery is to charge up a Smash if you see Yoshi coming up to land on the stage. Unlike DDD, Yoshi can't stop his recovery in mid-air. Also, if you see Yoshi just missing the edge and you presumably assume that Yoshi's a goner, think again and immediately run to Yoshi and pressure him. Even though Yoshi doesn't have a recovery move, he still has his handy eggs to give him a slight boost that just might grant him the sanctuary of the edge. Also, keep in mind that Yoshi's long jump activates Super Armor frames. Spiking Yoshi may require a bit of timing.
Now for Yoshi's ground game: Yoshi has some ways that he can easily approach Ike. Side B, B-air, and Dash attack are some examples. Yoshi's dash attack has a fairly decent hitbox so watch out for that. As for Side B, QD can stop Yoshi in his tracks and this can be followed up by a Jab combo. Ftilt works great and Counter is always an option as well. Yoshi's B-Air is a bit of a problem, however. It can rack up some great damage and lead to some devastating combos. It's not as easy to punish either since it doesn't have really a delay. I would use a retreating F-air if you see Yoshi's back (You can clearly expect a B-air approach here). For Yoshi Bomb, just don't be so cocky. Yes, it's predictable, but you never know if a Yoshi might use it when he's practically 3 inches above the stage. I'm not sure, but I believe if Yoshi uses Yoshi bomb above an edge, he will grab onto it. It's very similar to the Bowser bomb, but comes out much faster. Even worse, Yoshi Bomb comes out with those two little stars when Yoshi lands on the stage. Just keep your space when Yoshi uses Yoshi Bomb.
Watch out for Yoshi's kicks (A-A). They're really quick and they may connect with Ike before you even have a chance to start your own jab combo. Yoshi's smashes are formidable. His F-Smash can start killing from 100% I believe. His D-Smash has some merits in coming out quickly and unexpectedly. His Up-Smash is as strong as G&W's I think. For Yoshi's spike arsenal, Yoshi has two Spikes. His D-air spike is easy to connect, but will be pretty hard to use to spike Ike, because of Ike's SA frames when he activates Aether. The spike to watch out here is Yoshi's F-Air. I believe Yoshi can use a walkoff F-Air, but this spike is pretty hard to connect with Ike. But do keep an eye out for it. In conclusion, playing Yoshi just requires some good spacing, approaching well, taking caution of Yoshi's aerials, and punishing that predictable recovery of Yoshi.
Counterpick is Corneria where you can start your infinite and the fact that Yoshi's recovery move is so predictable, Corneria will give you plenty of room to punish Yoshi. Battlefield is also an option, because you can abuse your F-Smash pretty well and Yoshi will have a hard time hitting you with his egg.
As for Yoshi's CG, truthfully, I have never seen a Yoshi CG before. If someone can show me a video of a Yoshi CGing, I'd gladly offer some more feedback. Back to playing Yoshi though, Yoshi's recovery is very vulnerable. Similarly to DDD, Yoshi's recovery can be punished severely. Yoshi's recovery is only a single jump where he goes "WAAOH". If you time your attack right while you're on the edge waiting for Yoshi to recover, you can knock Yoshi back without his jump. Another way to punish his very predictable recovery is to charge up a Smash if you see Yoshi coming up to land on the stage. Unlike DDD, Yoshi can't stop his recovery in mid-air. Also, if you see Yoshi just missing the edge and you presumably assume that Yoshi's a goner, think again and immediately run to Yoshi and pressure him. Even though Yoshi doesn't have a recovery move, he still has his handy eggs to give him a slight boost that just might grant him the sanctuary of the edge. Also, keep in mind that Yoshi's long jump activates Super Armor frames. Spiking Yoshi may require a bit of timing.
Now for Yoshi's ground game: Yoshi has some ways that he can easily approach Ike. Side B, B-air, and Dash attack are some examples. Yoshi's dash attack has a fairly decent hitbox so watch out for that. As for Side B, QD can stop Yoshi in his tracks and this can be followed up by a Jab combo. Ftilt works great and Counter is always an option as well. Yoshi's B-Air is a bit of a problem, however. It can rack up some great damage and lead to some devastating combos. It's not as easy to punish either since it doesn't have really a delay. I would use a retreating F-air if you see Yoshi's back (You can clearly expect a B-air approach here). For Yoshi Bomb, just don't be so cocky. Yes, it's predictable, but you never know if a Yoshi might use it when he's practically 3 inches above the stage. I'm not sure, but I believe if Yoshi uses Yoshi bomb above an edge, he will grab onto it. It's very similar to the Bowser bomb, but comes out much faster. Even worse, Yoshi Bomb comes out with those two little stars when Yoshi lands on the stage. Just keep your space when Yoshi uses Yoshi Bomb.
Watch out for Yoshi's kicks (A-A). They're really quick and they may connect with Ike before you even have a chance to start your own jab combo. Yoshi's smashes are formidable. His F-Smash can start killing from 100% I believe. His D-Smash has some merits in coming out quickly and unexpectedly. His Up-Smash is as strong as G&W's I think. For Yoshi's spike arsenal, Yoshi has two Spikes. His D-air spike is easy to connect, but will be pretty hard to use to spike Ike, because of Ike's SA frames when he activates Aether. The spike to watch out here is Yoshi's F-Air. I believe Yoshi can use a walkoff F-Air, but this spike is pretty hard to connect with Ike. But do keep an eye out for it. In conclusion, playing Yoshi just requires some good spacing, approaching well, taking caution of Yoshi's aerials, and punishing that predictable recovery of Yoshi.
Counterpick is Corneria where you can start your infinite and the fact that Yoshi's recovery move is so predictable, Corneria will give you plenty of room to punish Yoshi. Battlefield is also an option, because you can abuse your F-Smash pretty well and Yoshi will have a hard time hitting you with his egg.
•Col•
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,450
Pretty much no one is gonna read that unless you break it up into smaller paragraphs... D:
Kimchi
Smash Ace
There, broke it up into smaller pragraphs O_o.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
Funny, I never have any problems edgeguarding Yoshi's. I can't gimp them, but their stupid second jump tends to send them right into my hypened Usmash.
Mmac
Smash Lord
If you think that Yoshi is easier to hit out of his recovery as a stationary target, then you are going to be SEVERELY mistaken/punished when you actually play a Yoshi that knows how to recover. If you think that all you need to do is just Smash off the ledge, then all Yoshi needs to do is just Airdodge, Drop Down, Fsmash, BOOM! You're dead!
I'm not even going to get started with people who think that Side B are our Primary Approach. If that Yoshi spams Egg Rolls, then he deserves to die. Well spaced Bair's/Nair's, Dair's, and Ftilts work well for approaches.
The most annoying thing about Ike is that due to his attack properties and natural range, he's actually the least vulnerable character to Pivot Grabs. However this is completely cancelled to more vulnerability from his Dash Grab (Which is surprisingly long ranged). He has a Chaingrab, but also a Tech Chase with Dthrow.
Ike can defend himself from kill moves fine (Uair, Nair, Fsmash, Usmash, DownB) If he doesn't create an opening that is. Egg's are probably going to be the thing to look out for the most. They're easily shielded and can be punished if thrown at the wrong time yes, but they can also create opening for approaches, Momentum Stall, Stop Aerial Approaches, Harass heavily defencive Ikes, and can actually be very dangerous for your recovery.
Speaking of, Yoshi should NEVER physically edgeguard Ike when he's under the stage. I'm much aware of Aether, and it's practically impossible to intercept, and it's just not worth the risk. Egg's work very well, and in some positions, will lead to either you getting hit and Yoshi following up with an Nair or something similar, or you'll dodge it, and Yoshi will follow it up and punish your airdodge. Either way, You are not going to be very happy...
Yoshi should tend to avoid anything with lag on his attacks unless he is sure that it will connect. The slightest opening can cost heavily. Generally what he would want to do is play A Passively Defencive Style. An "Avoid and Attack", although really any style can work fine if it's reasonable.
lol Yoshi. Unexpectedness FTW.
- Yoshi can CG you on certain stages. I think FD and Smashville are 2 of them.
- I've seen Yoshi recover with regular jump -> air dodge-> Up-B and Up-B -> regular jump -> air dodge. I'm guessing this was used for mindgames but idk.
- DJ SA can be annoying at times, especially with a powerhouse like Ike.
.....I have no other Yoshi info. The only Yoshi I play is my friend who seconds him. X(
- Yoshi can CG you on certain stages. I think FD and Smashville are 2 of them.
- I've seen Yoshi recover with regular jump -> air dodge-> Up-B and Up-B -> regular jump -> air dodge. I'm guessing this was used for mindgames but idk.
- DJ SA can be annoying at times, especially with a powerhouse like Ike.
.....I have no other Yoshi info. The only Yoshi I play is my friend who seconds him. X(
Ussi
Smash Legend
We Ikes BAIT air dodges so once your air dodge is read, consider yourself hit. You gotta read when Ike plans to attack you.
I will hurt w/e Ike said that.
Some Yoshi's need to learn this xD that pivot grab = fail against Ike. Only Olimar can severely deteroy us with it.
But yes, dash grab > pivot grab in this match up for Yoshi.
everyone plays this style usually.
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
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Yeah... seriously...
Mmac
Smash Lord
But really, any interception You are going to struggle against. You only have one shot at an aerial interception, and one shot at ledge camping. If you bait, you have to successfully follow it up, which is hard to do because he moves very fast in the air, and might be actually too high in the first place. If Yoshi foresees the bait, then Yoshi can easily counter attack.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Smash attacks can be charged. That's how you bait with a smash xD. You charge, Yoshi DJ with an air dodge, release smash. It's all about predicting when yoshi will dodge/attack Ike. Seriously, Usmash gains 40% killing power when fully charged. so yea, baiting with usmash yields kills. Course it's all mind games.You are going to bait an Airdodge with a SMASH, and THEN punish him? I understand where you're getting at, but I don't think you realized what exactly you quoted.
But really, any interception You are going to struggle against. You only have one shot at an aerial interception, and one shot at ledge camping. If you bait, you have to successfully follow it up, which is hard to do because he moves very fast in the air, and might be actually too high in the first place. If Yoshi foresees the bait, then Yoshi can easily counter attack.
Question: Does Yoshi's DJ sweetspot?
What he means is that we bait the air dodge by making you think we'll attack you. If you do, we attack. If you don't, than we'll change our plan.You are going to bait an Airdodge with a SMASH, and THEN punish him? I understand where you're getting at, but I don't think you realized what exactly you quoted.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
hour and a half from san fransico? thats just johns right there you should find people to carpool with. Take your wii to school one day you can probably find like 5 people who at least know what tiers are.
... QD has no priority. Grodos are like the only exception but QD has no actual hit box trough out the whole move unless there is a body to hit right in front of it. Besides actual characters pikmin and DDD's things are the only ones that activate QD's inexistent priority. Eggs don't do this.
I didn't read the rest of it because it sounds like you don't know the match up very well. Since you've never fought a chain grabbing yoshi.
You actually can bait an airdodge with a smash but thats besides the point. Ussi wasn't really talking about smash attacks and the guy who said that was just dumb smashes shouldn't really be used to edge guard like that. Edit: guess he was lol.You are going to bait an Airdodge with a SMASH, and THEN punish him? I understand where you're getting at, but I don't think you realized what exactly you quoted.
But really, any interception You are going to struggle against. You only have one shot at an aerial interception, and one shot at ledge camping. If you bait, you have to successfully follow it up, which is hard to do because he moves very fast in the air, and might be actually too high in the first place. If Yoshi foresees the bait, then Yoshi can easily counter attack.
I'm not sure how you can foresee a bait in my head it looks like this: OMG the Ike is getting ready to attack but maybe he won't I better not air dodge just to play it safe.
Ussi
Smash Legend
You guess correctly
I was trying to prove you can bait with a smash xD Most deadly with fsmash. Fsmash is best used when you know your foe is trying to DI back to you then they air dodge into the fsmash. <3 that tactic so much.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
Haha, trust me, I'm actively searching for someone to carpool with. It's just that 3 hours total driving time is a bit excessive.
Though at school there's a handful of people who are actually competent, and I play those people frequently.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
Ah bloody. It'd take like 3 and a half hours for both of us to even meet up someplace. That's total balls. I can't even get an offline match.
Mmac
Smash Lord
his Double Jump doesn't Sweet Spot, but his Eggs do. He can cancel out his Double Jump with an egg and grab the ledge.
Also about Counter Baiting, I meant like things like Ike chasing right away or jumping backwards with Yoshi. Maybe I shouldn't have said punish though, but I still have to question how well Ike can keep up with his airspeed
Kinzer
Mammy
Hey Mmac, would you be up for some Wi-Fi battles for "teh lulz?" The only "good" Yoshi I fought was Naucitos, that was once, it lagged horribly, and it was against my Sonic.
I desperately need to fight a highly-skilled Yoshi.
I desperately need to fight a highly-skilled Yoshi.
Kimchi
Smash Ace
Mm, I guess you're right. I have never played any Yoshis who CG. It's just that the advice I gave applies to the Yoshis that I have played. =P.
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
I would also not want to pick corneria, its no better for Ike than it is for Yoshi, you CAN stall out if you are in the lead, though, but yoshi can just stay on the top and throw things at you (Note, you only have a small margin of attack area that will hit the floor)
Mmac: i know what he meant about baiting with the smashes, the upsmash is very at hitting past an air dodge, and should be watched out for at the edge, it basically comes down to rock paper scissors, on whether to go for the edge or try to pass ike
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
Noooooooo don't do wifi!! every time someone lacks experience they are like lets do wifi and then the Ikes here get owned because only the good people from other boards actually come over here doing/accepting the challenges.
Every time some Ike main goes lets do wifi so you can know the match up better god kills a kitten and de-reps us.
Also yagami 3 hours is nothing as well. If one of us wins TMS we're going to make them pay for gas and drive up to oh snap which is going to be like 15 hours of driving. (If I win I'll just buy a plane ticket xD)
Every time some Ike main goes lets do wifi so you can know the match up better god kills a kitten and de-reps us.
Also yagami 3 hours is nothing as well. If one of us wins TMS we're going to make them pay for gas and drive up to oh snap which is going to be like 15 hours of driving. (If I win I'll just buy a plane ticket xD)