Ice Climbers Matchup Discussion REVAMPED - Week 1 Snaaaaaaaakeeeee

[TreK]

that up toss idea is legit. I'll steal it <3

I hate how each character gimp each other that well. It's basically who will pressure the other guy to the ledge the fastest...

I feel way more pressured when an IC main steals one of my naners than with any character because their desynch tricks suddenly become useful on diddy. You can probably setup a grab when you have one of our bananas, too.

I know this matchup a bit, not that much as I usually cp Marth on ICs but enough to not get ***** if CPed. I intend to drop Marth tho, so I'll follow this discution.

Quick question, I'm unsure and can't test atm ; if an aerial squall gets banana'd on, does the 2nd IC get in freefall ?

Edit : about the stages ; I've found out I done really well on Lylat against ICs ; is it a bad stage for them ?
Edit2 : You're cruel Lee, share it ._.
Unless it breaks the matchup in the icies favor of course ;V

 

[Advent Lee]

Most (not all) of what Gheb and Shmot said is quite accurate. Meep is lolz at this match up.

Anyways I might have found something might have broken this match up lolz



-Lee-

 

[meepxzero]

edit: not lookin at this thread anymore lol i agree with no one on bad mus.

 

[Hylian]

Being good at a match-up doesn't inherently make it in your characters favor.

 

[r3d d09]

I was able to actually play some friendlies today and this was one of the matchups. my friend maining diddy and pretty decent with him.
anyways. I found this to be a 6/4 in IC favor, this might be because of me knowing his playing style so well. and even though i never got off one CG >.> shame on me xD. I still won every watch.
He would always knock nana off and kill her leaving me SoPo'd. It might be my how i play popo, but he said he's rather have me play with nana and popo than just popo.
I would try and SH to ice block at random and he usually got caught in it, leaving him open for a grab, F smash *if i'm close enough* and other set ups.
Another thing, at higher percentages when I'd Dthrow him and him popping up in the air. I in the beginning would full hop *or what's necessary* to try and fair him, when he caught on, he'd air dodge, I'd follow this up with a Dair, usually hitting him in the process.
I should be playing him again tomorrow so i can give more feedback and right now I'm going to practice my CG's =\

Another thing, I have talked about my naner setup in a different thread, I will try finding it and post it here.
Basically get both naners if possible, I do that and it takes away half of diddy's game.

 

[momochuu]

I'm having computer problems, so the OP will be slow in updating. The thread will continue though. I'm keeping track of it all.

 

[EverAlert]

Just want to thank everyone in this thread.

For the first time today I managed to play the Diddy matchup properly. I still didn't win (need moar experience lul), but I no longer found it frustrating at all. I mean, I used to rage super hard at this matchup, to the point where I gave up and absolutely refused to play it. S'yeah, good **** guise, this thread's helping. :3

I wish I could contribute. Maybe whenever the Toon Link discussion rolls around. D:

 

[r3d d09]

well, anyone can contribute. i have the least about of experience i believe, but i still do what i can. I just come up with theories and what not.

 

[Diddyknight]

I used to main Diddy so I can put my input for this matchup when i fought: Fly Amanita and Michael hey many many months ago as a Diddy player:

*Bananas will mess up cg and possibly will always hold banana
*IB are needed for this matchup so that he can get damaged while trying to get bananaas
*Mix jabs/Blizzard when they Foward Glide toss so they hit trades and if the lag last long enough, one of the Climbers can grab
* Diddy approaches are somewhat limted due to what IC can do. Desync IB to stop his ground approaches; Blizzard can outrange diddy in air/ground
* (Assumption point here) Diddy will mostly throw bananas first since thats the best way to desync the Climbers and will spam bananas insanly but we can catch the bananas and use them against him
* Dont depend on Grabs for this matchup
* Desyncs can be fun =3

Let me know if any of this is wrong >_>

 

[Teh Future]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e43QlAO0EXU&feature=channel_page

 

[momochuu]

Wow, we got VERY little Diddy input in this matchup.

 

[Teh Future]

I dont know what to think about the matchup...

 

[choknater]

ahhhh i want to see adhd vs lain in better quality it'll give us a better idea of what diddy can do to win

 

[momochuu]

ahhhh i want to see adhd vs lain in better quality it'll give us a better idea of what diddy can do to win

Lol, apparently Nana is really easy to spike. @_@ He spiked lain's Nana like 4 times.

 

[Smoom77]

I saw in Lain vs BBoy around 0:40 that Lain jabbed in the middle of Diddy's dash and stopped him. Was that just that nana was out of the way and was out of the DA's hitbox?

 

[stoopdklutz]

blizzard isn't as useful here against diddy.

 

[choknater]

ic's jab is just a good way to stop stuff in general. he probably outprioritized it

 

[Hylian]

Lol, apparently Nana is really easy to spike. @_@ He spiked lain's Nana like 4 times.

It's a common diddy set-up that lain shouldn't of fell for :/. Bthrow spike will kill nana but you can avoid it pretty easily, just not when diddy's invincible. I was watching the stream with my roommate and when ADHD died I was like "He's going to come back and run at lain while he's invincible, grab nana throw her off and spike her" then he did exactly that lol. When diddy is invincible stay in the air or in a roll animation toward the stage always. Don't let him abuse that throw spike, it's avoidable.

Lain also stopped using jabs as well the second set and overall got a little impatient. He played it well, but diddy is hard for IC's because if you mess up nana is dead. ADHD apparently got a TON better at the match-up since he played with me at genesis lol. ADHD was also playing really good the entire tournament, so lain still gets props for doing so well .

 

[choknater]

man thats some good info hylian

 

[Smasher89]

What happened to Lain/Meep in teams? XD

 

[momochuu]

Hmmmm...I guess it's time to go to the next matchup. We can come back to this one though. I really didn't get enough information to even get a matchup summary/matchup ratio.

Next matchup is Metaknight.

 

[choknater]

haha metaknight?

well he sucks against fighting blizz, so he resorts to air camping

so a lot of the matchup depends on baiting approaches since u cant really just run up and grab him... make him get hit by something in order to grab him. but also dont depend on grabs

a lot of ur damage will come from well placed uairs while he is dair camping

i guess this is a starting point... cuz im sure all of us know this...

metaknight is just too good at separating them lol, the main thing we have against him is uair range and blizzard range and 0-death

u guys probably know more about this matchup than me

 

[Attila_]

dair camp to tornado run away. completely gay, but it works a treat. uair can only really punish dair if he's coming at you from an incorrectly spaced angle or not using his range, and tornado is a safe getaway in most instances (get too close and you'll be sucked in, too). shuttle loop can pwn anything that's too close or obvious.

tornado can recieve the ultimate punishment of chaingrab to death, but only if mk is a ****** and comes at you with it from enough distance for you to react.

his side-b seems to have awesome priority and can ledge cancel if he's good enough, making it fairly unpunishable. im not sure if we can pivot grab it...

blizzard is good until mk realises what a dair is. owns mks that cant space correctly though (but a shield grab is a way better punishment for noobs who cant space).

winnable only if the mk cant space properly, cant play the matchup, or chokes under pressure. unless of course we use hylian's new desynch to get the grab

60:40 mk imo.

 

[r3d d09]

Hmm, when I played my friends MK, I actually used Up B against him OoS and he started hating that, but you need to be sure it will land or you're screwed for sure.

Blizz as mentioned.

I will post more once i'm done working on my car, so a few hours. tah tah

 

[lain]

Me and Meep got ***** lmao. We weren't confident in double IC's, and ended up going random mixes of characters.

We DID go Double IC for a few games, and every game we won. It's just stressful and confusing @_@.

Oh and I suck on doubles. Yup.

Also, I played pretty bad vs ADHD in the 2nd set, but he was also playing great. I also was getting the **** gimped out of my Nana. I learned later during the set how to stop it, but in some situations you can't. Just avoid the situation (edge) altogether.

 

[r3d d09]

Lame, i'd doubles IC's if tthere was another IC's in my area. I'd be more confident in a double Mk match too xD

 

[lain]

People need to start trusting Meep and I more. We are the two best IC players in the world, and we collectively know how to make keen observations effectively in every matchup.

We are without a doubt the biggest compendiums of how to play Ice Climbers the RIGHT way.



If you guys want to start getting better, you need to start TRUSTING what Meep and I say, and think HARD about exactly what we're saying.

If not, then that's your problem.

 

[lain]

uair can only really punish dair if he's coming at you from an incorrectly spaced angle or not using his range

Wrong. If MK isn't coming at you at the right angle (I guess meaning he's spacing far enough to... not really hit you), then essentially nothing is happening. He's just doing dairs for no reason. And I REALLY love when MK's do that.

tornado can recieve the ultimate punishment of chaingrab to death, but only if mk is a ****** and comes at you with it from enough distance for you to react.

Wrong. lrn2pivotgrab.

his side-b seems to have awesome priority and can ledge cancel if he's good enough, making it fairly unpunishable. im not sure if we can pivot grab it...

Wrong. MK doesn't USE downB, and if he did, he would get pivot grabbed.

blizzard is good until mk realises what a dair is.

WRONG. THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

winnable only if the mk cant space properly, cant play the matchup, or chokes under pressure. unless of course we use hylian's new desynch to get the grab

Okay for 1, you obviously don't play IC's. For 2, good job putting all your blind faith in a desync that doesn't even help THAT much. I guess you don't think IC's are a good character, and apparently being able to blizzard out of a dash is the AT of the century. Whoopee.

60:40 mk imo.

WRONGWRONGWRONG. You are dumb. Go away.

 

[Snipa4800]

Lain , for some reason when I was playing Seibriks metaknight on battlefield he was able to Upb when ever I went for an uair even when I was directly under him on the platform.
Was I just getting predicted hardcore or is mks upb hitbox so great it can somehow beat uair?

 

[lain]

MK can upb out of shield you if you space it wrong. But this only works on battlefield if you screw up.

 

[Snipa4800]

MK can upb out of shield you if you space it wrong. But this only works on battlefield if you screw up.

Very useful to know.

What can we do about planking in this match up?
Every mk I play more or less hides from me every match and my desynched iceblocks/blizzards don't hit ._.

 

[momochuu]

@...shmot? I forgot your name. x.x

Yeeaaaah. Don't bring up that new desynch. Not yet anyway. That alone pretty much made your entire summary thing completely wrong. No one can do it consistently, it's probably only going to work on grounded opponents, and honestly at this point, Pivot Desynch is much better than it.

 

[lain]

Well, him saying that stuff about the desync instantly gives a big tip he doesn't know what he's talking about, but literally EVERYTHING he said was wrong. People should stop saying (lots of) wrong stuff.

 

[KRDsonic]

My main problem with this matchup is getting Nana back once she gets separated. How are you supposed to stop MK from killing her as soon as he gets her away from you? x.x

 

[C~Dog]

Wow attila, you just got pwned pretty hard. You might wanna sit down.

 

[r3d d09]

I'm glad to see Lain putting the IC foot down and telling how it is.

Guys, we should look at clips of meep, lain and others to see how they take on matchups. so currently we should be looking at them playing against an MK and see how they react to what MK does and get a general though on how this matchup should be played.

I gave my two thoughts for the day ^.^

 

[choknater]

lmao lain gettin off

sayin 'listen to me or u suck'

i like that from an ic's main

 

[C~Dog]

Wait wait... so people dont listen to lain and meep? O_o

 

[choknater]

no, i think we already do, lain just wanted to emphaize it more

 

[meepxzero]

**** i wish i wasnt really drunk now.... but i find it really funny how me and lains style of ic are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. well against mk we are. Hes all about desynch blizzard and reading what mk does. And im totally reading mk and not desynching blizzard. His style of play if you can learn it (i ****ing cant cuz i suck is the safeest). The way i play mk is I ONLYYY uair if they space the dairs wrong. And i play a lot more close up than lain. So i can pivot grab tornados more on reaction than him. He has to wait to see the tornado coming to do it. He plays a safer style while i play a more close up. I get more fuked if i dunno how the mk plays hes better and can see his ****. I played anti's mk and had no idea how he played. he 2 stocked me then the next game i 2 stocked him cuz i figured him out after one game. I dunno im drunk nowwww, but yeaaaa. I did bad at snes c uz i was too confident against snake and lost to snake. I beat fetal in every friendlie we played and anti as well the day b4. MY HEAD WAS TOTALLY BIG PLAYING AGINST SNAKE. but ally is totally legit hes too ***** goood against ic. you have to totaally ice block camp him unless he makes a mistake. al b honest i coulda done a lot better if i didnt play snakes, but i did. Its okay live and learn..... i suppose.

i dunno lains way of playing mk is the best, but i feel like if i learn all the mk styles mine might be better. Desynch blizzard is the way to go tho. THe way i play you have to totally learn all the mk tricks to be effective.