Ice Climbers Matchup Discussion REVAMPED - Week 1 Snaaaaaaaakeeeee

[BlueTerrorist]

what CG do most of you feel comfortable with...i've been practicing on comp and B throw hobble seems to be okay with me, but i try and never rely on hobbling.

your opinion?

BThrow to Fthrow works well against Sonic. You could also Bthrow to Dthrow if you wish but I feel Bthrow to Fthrow is best. Or you could Hobble lol.

Ive played Shugo's sonic many times. Desync Ice breath til he try to jump in the air for an attack. its cat and mouse all game til sonic makes a mistake and u get the grab, and once u get this grab u better not drop it cuz its not hard to CG sonic. its a very even match-up id give Icys the favor with 55-45 as well. **but please dont let that **** hedgehog split u and Uair ur nana it makes me sad face lolZ**

Shugo hasn't really beaten my ICs with Sonic yet . Yes, I can't stress this enough, if you get the grab KILL HIM. I would say 50-50, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up 55:45 in eithers favor.

 

[Shugo-Chan]

IC's vs Sonic is ghey and near impossible. Nuff said.

(lol)

 

[Teh Future]

^ Ya you should go falco LOL

 

[Shugo-Chan]

^ Lmaooooooooo that's always the best option xD!!

 

[momochuu]

Got my new computer. Will continue this tomorrow.

 

[IxxI]

Will that really help? This place is dead no matter what we do. T_____T

What happened to your old computer?

 

[momochuu]

I don't care how dead this place is. It's always been dead and I couldn't care less.

Old one's screen was broken.

 

[DMG]

If you think IC boards are dead, you should go check out the Wario boards. Granted we're trying to keep it alive, but we've had 3-4 month no post periods lol.

 

[Cold Fusion]

If you think IC boards are dead, you should go check out the Wario boards. Granted we're trying to keep it alive, but we've had 3-4 month no post periods lol.

Are they even deader than the Jiggs boards? I am too lazy to check.

 

[momochuu]

Alright. Next character is Peach. I've been curious about this matchup for a long time. Really freakin' annoying.


Time to update the OP....this is gonna be a chore. @.@;

 

[choknater]

blizzard helps, as well as pivot grabs.

peach's spaced fairs are so **** though. as well as dairs on top of us, there's like nothing we can do

so u have to keep moving around to force peach to adjust, cuz she can only really do unpunishable stuff at certain spacings. so if u make her fair too close or mess up an autocancel, u can shield grab her.

if she is dairing ur shield im not really sure what to do except roll in the opposite way that she is floating LOL (cuz no matter where you roll she can still follow you and do another aerial if her float momentum is already going in the same direction)

sh blizzard helps a lot honestly. but don't do it when she is already close cuz she can float above it

basically just play regular and this matchup becomes pretty even. blizz uairs grabs.... basic stuff. the main thing is you have to know how peach moves and u got this. peach if fast, but if you know all her spacing tools, you can read her floats and double jumps better. she basically has to move toward you before she does anything so you know when to block.

watch out for peach's dsmash it is like the best shield poking move in the game and separates the ic's as well

pivot grab *****

um as for turnips just block them.... u can catch them if ur a baller but honestly it doesnt do much.

usually, if she has spaced a turnip throw correctly, it opens her up for an approach (usually fair) so just block the fair. most peach follow up fair with jabs, so block the jabs too, and if the jabs are poorly spaced shield grab her and KO

this is why u have to keep moving around so that she doesnt space anything correctly. move away from her, move under her to scare her from getting grabbed, sh blizzard her, uair her, all that stuff. gotta keep peach guessing. she is versatile and usually can be played very aggressively, so basically if u stand still ur screwed.

 

[swordgard]

6:4 ice climbers = D



D-Air the shield is far from being unpunishable too.
Peach cant kill/gimp really well, the more the match takes time, the higher the chance of getting cged.

 

[choknater]

peach is one of the easiest characters to **** nana with though

and she can just be aggressive in general without taking damage.. which is IMO more important than killing (heck i main sheik, thats what i do all dai)

what can u do to dair on shield?

however

since blizz is so good

i still think the matchup is 60:40 ic's hahah, only cuz im biased. edrees thinks it's peach's advantage though (i think, maybe he changed his mind)

we need peach players in here, i'm pretty d*mn sure they would say it's even or in peach's advantage. cuz she can beast on ice climbers still...

 

[Dark.Pch]

6:4 ice climbers = D



D-Air the shield is far from being unpunishable too.
Peach cant kill/gimp really well, the more the match takes time, the higher the chance of getting cged.

You are kidding right? This is so not true at all. Come on dude. Be serious with this here.

Also IC do not have the advantage over Peach.

 

[swordgard]

You are kidding right? This is so not true at all. Come on dude. Be serious with this here.

Also IC do not have the advantage over Peach.

Im serious, when has any peach beaten meep/lain recently?

 

[DMG]

When have any notable Peach players even PLAYED Meep/Lain? Lol.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Im serious, when has any peach beaten meep/lain recently?

When has any top Peach player actually played them. if you gonna base this match up on a poor logic like that then stay out of this debate for the match up. Cause it clearly shows you know nothing of it. And let others discuss it so we get this match up done.

 

[choknater]

peach is very good at killing ic's

she might have trouble KOing some other characters but honestly IC's are no biggie cuz their range sucks

this is why blizzard *****

peach can throw turnips through blizzards, this is why turnips ****

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think I t be bst off to start this out as to what you boys think about this match up. For those that say it is in Peach Favor I want you to explain way, and I can easliy Start my essay on this match up from there.

 

[choknater]

ok. well i think the matchup is even

peach's spacing and offensive options vs ic's ground game/uairs/blizzards

peach outspeeds pretty much everything, but it's a matter of spacing so as to not get grabbed. peach is most likely not gonna get shield grabbed but sometimes ic's can run up and grab if u happen to block or if u float too low. but thats okay, good peaches won't make the mistake of floating low anyway

peach's fair and dair ****, i think ic's can't punish them though swordgard thinks otherwise

i think ic's using blizzard a lot can do a lot of damage to peach though, or at least run away and force her to pull turnips. when peach pulls a turnip her ground game is gone so she has to either throw it right away or use spaced aerials. so this makes' ic's defense actually not that hard cuz u know peach's options. just block or catch the turnip then block/avoid the oncoming aerial. however, this does kinda still force ic's into a defensive position because they have to avoid the turnip in the first place.

though peach usually wins most matches on small stages, i actually think peach is better off on something bigger like smashville or FD where you can easily find space to pull turnips, honestly i think turnips can give peach like the 51:49 edge just cuz they force ic's into a bad decision. it's just a matter of finding the time to pull them out and pulling them out at the right times

ic's are just an amazing character overall, and i usually don't play peaches good enough to execute all the things i'm saying, so i get ez grabs. but i can't say something like 'peach wins at a higher level' because at higher levels, ic players are really good with pivot grabs and spacing aerials in general. especially uairs, those ****. ic's also deal way more damage when they do connect with something. dash attacks can be a pain for peach if she is floating cuz ic's actually lunge forward pretty far when they do that move.

um what else

peach's dsmash *****

honestly peach is so versatile so in my mind right now, i feel peach having the advantage...
but at the same time, you just have to know all the situations that peach can put you in, and then adapt from there. ic's DO have approach tools too and can deal major damage when catching peach in a bad spot

its like this...
peach on the ground with a turnip = most dangerous cuz it nullifies ic's blizzard and approaches
peach floating with a turnip = dangerous, but she has to do an aerial or perhaps drop the float to throw the turnip
peach floating = dangerous
peach on the ground = not dangerous, pivot grab all dai if she decides to ground approach
peach on the ground right next to ic's = she opens up their shield like a beast. jabs, dtilt, DSMASH

floating peach can be hit with dash attack and usmash, but if u mis-space those attacks she will separate and ****

hmmmmmmmm

from analyzing the matchup a little more...

i think peach wins 55:45.

she just has more options and an overall more powerful spacing game. you just have to execute it correctly and watch the ic's spacing closely cuz they have a lot of trixies. ic's are still too amazing and can never be counted out, especially when u can be hit with an fsmash/usmash/dash attack/uair which do huge damage and happen whenever u space something wrong. let alone grab...

sry this post is so scatterbrained lol *shrug* thats how i handle matchups

ic players: u still have to tell me what they can do OOS vs peach's dair. i honestly don't know

 

[Prawn]

IC's have advantage, 60:40.

The simple solution to beating Dair is to not get caught under it >_< lol, if you use your spacing + blizzards its not that hard. Grabbing peach isn't that difficult, there are FAR harder characters in terms of getting the grab.

Blizzard walls can work if you see the turnip throw and Nair or air dodge it to catch it then throw it back quickly, even if you get hit with one it doesn't do much.

And what is Peach gonna kill ICs with? lol,

I'm pretty sure Fair isn't that hard to shield grab/pivot grab, even if spaced really well.

Plus Peach has like no way of really punishing Nana unless shes already over like 100 damage lol, even if you land a fully charged fsmash when Nana is running back towards Popo(which is easier said then done, I've seen many players with each character try to charge fsmashes and miss because of the weird way Nana moves) it's not gonna KO her at low percents and you'll end up getting punished by Popo.

I dunno, I mean its around 50:50 maybe if you want to look at it like that but Peach doesn't have the advantage. If you truly believe that Drk.Pch than I would love to see you money match meep or lain lol. Preferably meep because he ***** presumed "bad" matchups for ICs.

 

[swordgard]

IC's have advantage, 60:40.

The simple solution to beating Dair is to not get caught under it >_< lol, if you use your spacing + blizzards its not that hard. Grabbing peach isn't that difficult, there are FAR harder characters in terms of getting the grab.

Blizzard walls can work if you see the turnip throw and Nair or air dodge it to catch it then throw it back quickly, even if you get hit with one it doesn't do much.

And what is Peach gonna kill ICs with? lol,

I'm pretty sure Fair isn't that hard to shield grab/pivot grab, even if spaced really well.

Plus Peach has like no way of really punishing Nana unless shes already over like 100 damage lol, even if you land a fully charged fsmash when Nana is running back towards Popo(which is easier said then done, I've seen many players with each character try to charge fsmashes and miss because of the weird way Nana moves) it's not gonna KO her at low percents and you'll end up getting punished by Popo.

I dunno, I mean its around 50:50 maybe if you want to look at it like that but Peach doesn't have the advantage. If you truly believe that Drk.Pch than I would love to see you money match meep or lain lol. Preferably meep because he ***** presumed "bad" matchups for ICs.

That and upsmash out of shield, bair or up air out of shield all hit peach way harder than her dair does, especially if you SDI it you can punish her during the dair. The longer the match plays out, the more chances of her getting cged, especially with solo cg now. 6-4 ice climbers, she cant kill, never can never will.

 

[Dark.Pch]

IC's have advantage, 60:40.

The simple solution to beating Dair is to not get caught under it >_< lol, if you use your spacing + blizzards its not that hard. Grabbing peach isn't that difficult, there are FAR harder characters in terms of getting the grab.

Peach is not an easy character to grab with her goos spacing and evasion. Even against characters like DDD. S Please don't even say this, cause if you gonna rely on grabs against a Smart player, you are making this too easy for them to beat you.

Blizzard walls can work if you see the turnip throw and Nair or air dodge it to catch it then throw it back quickly, even if you get hit with one it doesn't do much.

This is not really gonna do anything. blizzard use will be tone down cause you here worrying about getting my turnip and I can just hit you in the process with timed attacks.

And what is Peach gonna kill ICs with? lol,

-Fair
-Dair (Off stage Dairs to seoerate you 2 and make it harder for you to get back on stage. or do diars and not let the 4th kick so you don't pop up and grab the edge.
- Bair
-Fsmash
-upsmash if I can land it.
-toad. ( I can go down and toad your up-B and knock you back out. making it harder to get back on stage and possibly seperate nana and popo in the process. But this takes timing and not something to rely on.....or can I......Something new to look into now, cool)

I'm pretty sure Fair isn't that hard to shield grab/pivot grab, even if spaced really well.

Wrong, Spaced Fairs you are not grabbing me out of, if DDD and Marth Can't, what makes you think, IC can?

Plus Peach has like no way of really punishing Nana unless shes already over like 100 damage lol, even if you land a fully charged fsmash when Nana is running back towards Popo(which is easier said then done, I've seen many players with each character try to charge fsmashes and miss because of the weird way Nana moves) it's not gonna KO her at low percents and you'll end up getting punished by Popo.

Nana is never the target unless her and popo are seperated. When they are together, the Player is the target, not the AI. When they get broken apart, the player should be worring about Nana until popo comes in to save her and sneak attack you. Then your focus goes back to the player. Seriously going after Nana all the time is seriously stupid.

I dunno, I mean its around 50:50 maybe if you want to look at it like that but Peach doesn't have the advantage. If you truly believe that Drk.Pch than I would love to see you money match meep or lain lol. Preferably meep because he ***** presumed "bad" matchups for ICs.

Peach>IC

- You are not hard to seperate.
- You are not hard to gimp.
- You are not hard to edgeguard
- Good pressure game is hard to deal with
- Get out ranged.
- Done right, we can camp you since our turnips go through blizzard.
- You can't Grab Peach that easy, face facts.

Peach does not need to be floating to diars to get at you. I can easliely short hop and space them so you can try and Uptilt or even upsmash out of shield. I can to this to Jabs or w/e I want. To have you in the shield and easting it. Them keep the pressure going till I seperate you. So with Blizzard taken care of, I out range you and can space the hell out of you when close, making it hard for you to land a clean shot on me. If you choose to retrat and Blizzard, smart thing for Peach to do is camp you while moving in slowly. to a point you are forced to fight.

It is also not hard to keep you out. With Peach being one of the best edegaurders in this game, she has many options to keep one out. And IC dont have much options to make it back on stage, and easy for Peach to snip out of. And you can be gimped out of your recovery.

People keep thinking " Ha ha ha, Peach can't kill, we got nothing to worry about, this ***** is too easy, hahaha" I love it when people do that and thing cause of this it is that easy. Peach can actually kill better than people make it out to be. People just not using thier heads, and playing typical. Staling these moves so much. Peach actually does not have a hard time refreshing moves. But I'll leave that up to you boys to actually study the character on your own istead of doing by this typical junk. of Peach can't kill, got nothing to worry about garbage. But what makes this even funny if that Peach really does not need brute force to beat IC. She seriously does not. But it does help make things a lil easier.

 

[Firestormzero0]

lol dark peach pretty much countered it all and he is pretty much right. Cuz my best friend plays as peach and he is pretty good. But i still believe its 60:40 IC's

Peach is really hard to grab if peach can space well. and Peaches main way of playing is ALWAYS having a turnip in there hands SOOO... this is what i do.

When i notice peach floating trying to dair me you can either time your upsmash right. You can jump and do blizzard. or you can bair. Bair works pretty well cuz it comes out b4 her fair.

You can pivot grab her fair if you time it just right.

you can also pivot grab while she is floating and her foot is about your mouth level on popo.

Turnips i usually catch every one of them cuz i am so use to them. i just do a short hop air dodge and yeah.

Dont try to go off stage with peach cuz you will never gimp her . Dont even and edge guard her. her umbrella saves her 85% of the time. you would have to time it perfectly

Ice blocks do work it makes her float, and then u can Bair her or predict where she is gonna land and grab or pivot grab that spot.

You can pivot grab her Side B and her Nair and like most characters you can pivot grab her dash attack.

Dsmash does Desync us but if you Smash DI up u can get out fast and have more time to save nana or if you get out fast enough and nana is still getting hit THEN you still have a chance of running back to peach and doing a dash attack while she is Dsmashing Nana. Her Dsmash is slow when somebody is in it.

Peaches upsmash fsmash fair bair and nair or more powerful than i thought. Even Dair at really high percents lol.

When you go against IC's its dont get grabbed, when you go against peach its, dont get mindgamed. All turnips are for is not really about getting percents in. Its all mindgames. Its to mess with our head that there is a turnip in there hand and were too focused on that to really react to whats actually gonna happen.

She is pretty light so you dont have to CG to Upsmash very long :D

Her jabs usually saves her from getting grabbed.

Oh and plz dont get hit with a turnip when you are trying to recover. Cuz 1 turnip can and will gimp you if you are already in squall or belay.

Oh another good tip to keep in mind is staying far enough away from peach so you dont get hit by a fsmash golf stick. But just close enough to where when she pulls out a turnip, thats enough lag for you to get a grab in. Space yourself

SHE CANNOT GET AROUND UPAIR ABUSE THAT!!!! (especially cuz i think we fast fall faster than her )

Free grab if you get her to counter :D thats all i got. if i remember more ill pitch in. :D

oh and your welcome

 

[swordgard]

Dark pch, just MM lain or meep and beat em then tell us how wrong we are !

 

[Firestormzero0]

Dark pch, just MM lain or meep and beat em then tell us how wrong we are !

ill MM you dark peach, i have always wanted to

 

[Dark.Pch]

Sure, why not. Oh and Meep agrees that match up is in Peach Favor. But using this logic and you not really able to explain anything does not make you the big man that knows things. You really can't explain anything, and your only defense is "MM these guys"

I got no problem doing that. But I already said Meep agree that Peach>IC. We spoke about this in one thread. Just give it up dude.

 

[lain]

I haven't seen Drk. Peach place well since the great flood of '83

...


I'd rather go DDD. While the ICeach matchup is like around even, 'tis easier with Daydayday

 

[Prawn]

I'm almost ****ing positive Meep didn't say that.

He thinks Snake is in ICs favor and thinks that every matchup is even at worst for ICs. Show me the thread. I mean I could be wrong but I feel like you're misinterpreting something.

EDIT:

I haven't seen Drk. Peach place well since the great flood of '83

lol get *****.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I haven't seen Drk. Peach place well since the great flood of '83

Here to start something?

I'm almost ****ing positive Meep didn't say that.

He thinks Snake is in ICs favor and thinks that every matchup is even at worst for ICs. Show me the thread. I mean I could be wrong but I feel like you're misinterpreting something.

You wanna bet? You seriously think he did not say that?

 

[FrozenHobo]

i'm with Drak.Pch on this one. i'd say 40:60 Peach.

 

[lain]

Not starting a thing, just stating a fact. Without results, it means you aren't beating people. If you're not beating people, you're not up to date. If you're not up to date, you're opinion. means. SQUAT.

I dunno if Meep said that or not, but I don't necessarily agree or disagree. It's around even.

 

[meepxzero]

Sure, why not. Oh and Meep agrees that match up is in Peach Favor. But using this logic and you not really able to explain anything does not make you the big man that knows things. You really can't explain anything, and your only defense is "MM these guys"

I got no problem doing that. But I already said Meep agree that Peach>IC. We spoke about this in one thread. Just give it up dude.

lol what? Maybe i said it after azen beat me with peach in tourney, but that was the days when i was learning ic still.

As i got better with ic it became apparent we dont lose any match-ups. Everything is even at best.

60:40 ics but at the very extreme its even.

Dair is peaches only really safe approach, which makes her mad predictable (fair/bair can get pivot grabbed). And yea i dont need to emphasize one grab shes dead.

 

[Firestormzero0]

lol just listen to my advice i gave and u will be fine. am i right guys?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Not starting a thing, just stating a fact. Without results, it means you aren't beating people. If you're not beating people, you're not up to date. If you're not up to date, you're opinion. means. SQUAT.

I dunno if Meep said that or not, but I don't necessarily agree or disagree. It's around even.

So what you are telling me is, I have to actually beat people to come off as smart? To actually have a brain? First off I have beaten good players and gone even with top ones. My tourny results so far have been good, but what the hell would you know about that? I got 13th at SNES. I'm sorry if I fail to fit your BS standard to actually......um...know my stuff? To have a brain? And not have people suck my **** cause I am a big name and laugh and stupid jokes to hype the other person up.

You obviously don't know 2 things about me at all to even dare say this. And all this nonsesnse has nothing to do with this topic. You are not explaining anything. Just trying to sound funny and crap and fell like king to these people and thing you can just clearly say **** and it makes you right. I'm smarter than you think.

I am at least explaining stuff and actually came here to help with this on request. I'm trying to be nice and help people out. not make stupid jokes and show off to your goons. You are not bringing anything to this to get into detail in this match up. You are not helping at all

 

[Teh Future]

fair can't be punished at all if its spaced right.

And ya its even.

Peach has all the tools to avoid the grab, but it requires perfect spacing all the time which is not gonna happen because peach matches usually take 10 minutes each when they are camping (and they want to make ics approach).

And ya for dair just dont get caught under it. Depending on what the peach does after the dair to shield you can nair or uptilt but I think if she nairs afterwards it will hit you.

Blizzard ***** peach without turnups. If she jumps really high just run under her and you can pivot grab or shield grab whatever they do next lol

D. peach you dont have to get mad because people make jokes about you on the internets D:

 

[Firestormzero0]

fair CAN be punished by pivot grabbing it

im telling you guys to Bair her Dair's

Blizzards are usually not gonna work sense peaches game is to always have a turnip in there hand

 

[Dark.Pch]

lol what? Maybe i said it after azen beat me with peach in tourney, but that was the days when i was learning ic still.

As i got better with ic it became apparent we dont lose any match-ups. Everything is even at best.

60:40 ics but at the very extreme its even.

Dair is peaches only really safe approach, which makes her mad predictable (fair/bair can get pivot grabbed). And yea i dont need to emphasize one grab shes dead.

Dude, we went on about this before apex. And we were suppose to play. Peach Vs IC and then Peach Vs Marth.

Also, I explained the out of typical use for Dair and the follow ups from it that can make it hard for you to retact. It won't be that easy. And no I am not talking about just flaoting so much to Dair. That's old crap. it's not gonna be that simple.

And I gotta question since you wanna use this "I don't lose" Logic. If I was to beat every meta in tourny that were all top metas and not lose to them, Is the match up even or in Peach's Favor?

fair can't be punished at all if its spaced right.

And ya its even.

Peach has all the tools to avoid the grab, but it requires perfect spacing all the time which is not gonna happen because peach matches usually take 10 minutes each when they are camping (and they want to make ics approach).

And ya for dair just dont get caught under it. Depending on what the peach does after the dair to shield you can nair or uptilt but I think if she nairs afterwards it will hit you.

Blizzard ***** peach without turnups. If she jumps really high just run under her and you can pivot grab or shield grab whatever they do next lol

D. peach you dont have to get mad because people make jokes about you on the internets D:

I was not mad. He mad that weak joke and ask him if he was starting something here, he says no and then makes that post about me with is straight BS. He really does not know anything about me to even say that. And why would he make a statement like that for this topic. Does not mean anything or helps with it. I'm here trying to help people out and others wanna be tools about it? Come on man.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I'm certain that this match is at least somewhat in Peach's favour. Around 40:60 Peach seems about right to me.

See, when played right, Peach can be very hard to grab. The ICs have a hard time punishing well-spaced Dairs, and if also AC Fairs can't be shieldgrabbed either. In fact, even Bair is safe on block if space well. What this all means is that good Paches shouldn't be getting grabbed too often, especially when her opponent's grab range isn't all that great. Weirdly enough, turnips go through blizzard, meaning the effectiveness of that is reduced, and also she can easily float over ice blocks...

All in all, Peach just generally has an answer to all of the ICs options, and her killing issues aren't as big a deal here due to the fact that she can easily pressure them once they're separated from each other. Though one thing she's more vulnerable to than normal is Uair juggling. Otherwise, this match is definitely in Peach's advantage.

 

[Prawn]

You wanna bet? You seriously think he did not say that?

Yeah I do cause I'm right