other than snake, who is the IC's BAD(not disadvantaged, bad) matchup exactly?
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Ice Climbers Matchup Discussion REVAMPED - Week 1 Snaaaaaaaakeeeee
- Thread starter Prawn
- Start date
Rob imo. Lain doesn't have problems with them though :/.
meepxzero
Smash Master
we beat everyone except snake and ics. lolol
X-FACTOR
Smash Journeyman
IC are the new meta knight!
Prawn
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,031
This is so incorrect it's astounding.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
eh, i think peach has a SLIGHT upper hand
but not really
zss lol
i used to get off on her with ic's but
then it got hard
i use sheik vs zss haha, still hard
but not really
zss lol
i used to get off on her with ic's but
then it got hard
i use sheik vs zss haha, still hard
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
why do you laugh so much for no reason?
penguin_and_panda
Smash Apprentice
Marth I think would be 50-50.... most of his attacks out prioritize ours and he's got the Fair.... but he's pretty easy to chain grab and we have projectiles. sooo it's about even.... (I missed ALLOT of things...)
choknater
Smash Obsessed
because i am happywhy do you laugh so much for no reason?
Dereshishishishishishi
ZEHAHAHAHAHAH
Gurararararara
Teh Future
Smash Master
Peach vs ICs is even. Its just a really long and lame match :/
I want to play moar robs, I dont really know what the think about the matchup now though.
Snake and Wario have a 60-40 matchup against us in my book, and are the only characters that have a significant advantage.
I want to play moar robs, I dont really know what the think about the matchup now though.
Snake and Wario have a 60-40 matchup against us in my book, and are the only characters that have a significant advantage.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i can agree with that
though i just think a lot of matchups arent fully evolved yet, cuz im pretty sure diddy and peach can deal some major crap to ic's if there is a strategy to avoid grabs that is expanded upon
watching mach dash vs michael hey was already surprising to me. diddy is great
though i just think a lot of matchups arent fully evolved yet, cuz im pretty sure diddy and peach can deal some major crap to ic's if there is a strategy to avoid grabs that is expanded upon
watching mach dash vs michael hey was already surprising to me. diddy is great
snake, wario, marth, mk and diddy (not as bad as the others) are ics bad matchups imo, either too hard to space, too hard to grab, or just ****.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
i think IC does well on marth
you guys just aren't doing it right
except meep
you guys just aren't doing it right
except meep
Yeah, after thinking about it, my opinion on marth changed.
60:40 ice climbers.
I dont know why i consider matchups 60:40 hard, but then i think about it and decided to set a reference point to myself. Im positive MK is 50:50, so i judged based on this as a reference point. Marth is definitly easier, and the more i think about it, the more i realize his options are too limited and make him predictable.
60:40 ice climbers.
I dont know why i consider matchups 60:40 hard, but then i think about it and decided to set a reference point to myself. Im positive MK is 50:50, so i judged based on this as a reference point. Marth is definitly easier, and the more i think about it, the more i realize his options are too limited and make him predictable.
See, Meep needs to be more like this guy. Confident, informed, persuasive.
Duly noted sir. lol
Dang IC's vs Marth... I remember back in the day when I occasionally would whip them out in tournament, sometimes vs Marth players. The matchup always felt like Marth would win if you didn't condition him into bad responses. If Marth played EXTREMELY boring/spacey, then you had to fall back on your desynch game to put any kind of pressure on him.
r3d d09
Smash Master
this makes bunny mad.why do you laugh so much for no reason?
Peach is just awesome, and one of the top 10 players in my state is a ROB, and i hate friendlies let alone legit matches against him.
you forgot rob, i think rob is one of the hardest matches. but once you get the grab, you're set.
*says this while screaming* No one plays against IC's right except for you *ends screaming* haha.
meepxzero
Smash Master
i hate theory crafting which a lot of mu threads do because al respond to everything differently when i actually play. I learn to counter certain styles than the actual match up. For example if ur repetitively doing one thing al always find a way around it. Even if its camping.... Swordgard has a lot more logic than me, but he agrees with a lot of stuff i say.
Its funny cause we often arrive to similar conclusions.
But you do through MU experience. I dont have that that much, i just theorize my way to it.
The only thing is you wont have the words to describe the reasonning behind it, you experienced it, but cant necessarly show it to others. You will on the other hand be able to show it in game vs people in an easier way.
EDIT: Even when i said something without saying it wasnt from me and that i disagreed with it like an hour ago and you disagreed with it too. It was a test to see if you were only agreeing for agreeing or really giving out your experience, and we really do come to same conclusions lmao.
Uh, how else do you discuss a match up?
No matter how smart of a player YOU are, IC's tools don't change. Whether YOU can bait or mindgame Marth into making mistakes is completely irrelevant because it's not a solid or reliable strat in any way. Those two things are intangibles and can't be discussed. Just because YOU beat every Marth you play, doesn't mean IC's win the match.
Nope, but it does bring out some evidence towards it.
meepxzero
Smash Master
XD my bad. im bored too. no hard feelings. Wow i really do needa explain stuff better im going to be an art teacher LOL.
I could create lengthy walls of text to do in every marth situation, but im really too lazy to do that. All i ahve to say in marth vs ic if you desynch right all marth can do is plank against you. It hurts him a lot just like other chars to have only 2 jumps. Spacing doesnt help against ic if you desynch ice block chase them and force jumps or make him shield. Ic are an mvc2 char where you can use nana as an assist and make ur opponent move the way you want if they dont have a projectile to camp against you.
Theres so little vids of my ic, but i literally make my ic look like its 2v1 characters because i utilize desynching real well.
I could create lengthy walls of text to do in every marth situation, but im really too lazy to do that. All i ahve to say in marth vs ic if you desynch right all marth can do is plank against you. It hurts him a lot just like other chars to have only 2 jumps. Spacing doesnt help against ic if you desynch ice block chase them and force jumps or make him shield. Ic are an mvc2 char where you can use nana as an assist and make ur opponent move the way you want if they dont have a projectile to camp against you.
Theres so little vids of my ic, but i literally make my ic look like its 2v1 characters because i utilize desynching real well.
Sif you didn't bring out your ICs against me at Genesis.
Even though can't complain much, I adored playing your sheik. I just couldn't help but smile as I took sheik pointers by running down the list of tools I use as Marth and noted how you got around them.
THEN YOU RAN AWAY.
RAGE.
Oh but IC's match up wise...
Everything IC's do (other than what I'm about to mention) seems to be easy game for Marth to out do, avoid, and punish.
It's the desynchs that -really- give Marth issue. And I'm talking the alternating wall of terror that is desynch variable jumping blizzards/uairs/nairs. Without appropriate platforms, or a LOT OF
Ease of CG is a mute point. I honestly don't think ICs can consider grabs at all in the match up as viable. People arguing that Marth is easier than MK ignore the differentation between how ICs handle each match up. ICs force MK with crappy aerial mobility with desyncs into a grab; Marth tends to not get grabbed as easily, but can't get past desyncs (easily). Hylians got the right idea ;.;
When I play against IC mains, the ones that go for the grab as their main point I can beat with ease with Marth, and often dair camping is all you need with MK.
Metagame will start to focus more on countering Ice Climbers; atm I think it's still slight Marth advantage. But this could easily change through various developments.
It's not the easiest thing in the world to do though, especially as you are required to be 'above' and at the right distance, where as I said, the nair/uair etc become troublesome.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Theory Bros is always completely different to less experienced players
i always take what meep says to heart cuz he's played ic's a lot more than me and won in tournys and stuff
even if what he says is wrong to some ppl i usually get what he means
so if im gonna pivot grab wario i'll do it :D even if on paper it sounds like wario can camp the whole time
there is always a way to fight
i always take what meep says to heart cuz he's played ic's a lot more than me and won in tournys and stuff
even if what he says is wrong to some ppl i usually get what he means
so if im gonna pivot grab wario i'll do it :D even if on paper it sounds like wario can camp the whole time
there is always a way to fight
choknater
Smash Obsessed
haha dmg you're so passionate about that
i'd like to play u someday
we'll see whose determination is greater
i'd like to play u someday
we'll see whose determination is greater
meepxzero
Smash Master
i wanna play dmg too!! I wanna see what crazy stuff hes gonna pull if i grab him the last 30 secs when we both have 3 stocks
Im happy you believe me choknater. I feel like im albert einstein telling people i invented to light bulb or something.
If you really want insight on how badly ic beat marth ask neo himself. He told me himself that if i ever lost to a marth he would kill me.
Im happy you believe me choknater. I feel like im albert einstein telling people i invented to light bulb or something.
If you really want insight on how badly ic beat marth ask neo himself. He told me himself that if i ever lost to a marth he would kill me.
Um...Yeah..about that.