You can just bair as well. Nair you can retreat and it covers a lot and you are facing him so you can uair better when he goes over.
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Ice Climbers Matchup Discussion REVAMPED - Week 1 Snaaaaaaaakeeeee
- Thread starter Prawn
- Start date
Jupz
Smash Master
Oh ok, thanks 
Not sure about airrelease to regrab, but if it´s guarantied(I guess ICs won´t force it though) it might be good to start a chain with that to both make the opponent think it´s pointless to mash, and get both even easier in order for altgrabs. Other then that I´ve still to face a good wario in tournament :/
Air release to regrab is guaranteed if the Wario footstools one of the ICs. As Wario is jumping on one of the climbers you can grab him with the other. I'm pretty sure that's the only time it works (at least the only time I've seen it work recently).
r3d d09
Smash Master
I'd give my two thoughts but my only experience of vs'ing a wario is in an FFA >.>
I will talk to that person and try and have im post his opinion on the matchup for us.
none the less, his air maneuverability is insane and when i played wario, i had a different style of playing him than most.
Maybe i'll play and IC with my wario and post it from a person who is analyzing it for the IC side from warios view. idk. I will see what i can do
I will talk to that person and try and have im post his opinion on the matchup for us.
none the less, his air maneuverability is insane and when i played wario, i had a different style of playing him than most.
Maybe i'll play and IC with my wario and post it from a person who is analyzing it for the IC side from warios view. idk. I will see what i can do
If you use aerials in an attempt to wall Wario or dissuade him from approaching, just remember that it's almost always better for you to SH them than Full Hop. It's a lot easier for Wario to punish you in the air when you are higher up since he has more room to maneuver, and in the event that you need to get to the ground quickly you are gonna be ***** if you are too high.
Pivot Grab only gets you so far against Wario. If you mistime it, or if he backs up far enough that you miss, he can punish you for it. It's very useful in that it helps to keep Wario "in check", but actually grabbing him with it will most likely be frustrating.
Pivot Grab only gets you so far against Wario. If you mistime it, or if he backs up far enough that you miss, he can punish you for it. It's very useful in that it helps to keep Wario "in check", but actually grabbing him with it will most likely be frustrating.
meepxzero
Smash Master
if you buffer ur pivot grab and do the sliding version its nearly unpunishable against ic. Theres a more complicated way to do it which involves csticking the opposite direction and grabbing, but i forgot it. Its literally the same thing.
I ono like hylian says i havent played enough warios to give a fair gauge of him, but i play a lot different from most ic players. When i was learning ic i use to have a hard time in this match up as i got a lot better he became fairly easier. Its still even in my book until a wario beats me badly (in my head we win...)
I know its silly for me to just say pivot grab and win, but if u master it with ic i really dont get how wario can even attack or approach you. Wario isnt even disjointed in any shape or form and hurt box for ic extends so silly for them when they pivot grab.
Im gonna go as far to say ic have the best pivot grab in the game because in reality you have two characters extending their hurt box to grab you. It gives you double the chance to grab whoever. Thats why when most times ic pivot grab mk nana grabs mk still while popo gets stunned by the nado.
Ic players should learn the pivot grab where u slide. Its far superior than the regular pivot grab because its unpunishable.
Unpunishable... until you mis space it or until he backs off and moves right back in and punishes you for it. It's good, but there are better and more annoying zoning tools Wario has to deal with than just their Pivot Grab.
It's much easier for me to punish you for messing up than it is for you to play even CLOSE to perfect.
It's much easier for me to punish you for messing up than it is for you to play even CLOSE to perfect.
meepxzero
Smash Master
alright al just stand and let wario hit me while i pivot grab a poorly spaced arerial. Apparently thats all it takes to win.
We can talk all we want ;p it doesnt mean crap on the internet lol.
ANd when lain played fiction who did he do better with ic or ddd? And doesnt ddd win the match up usually?
thats right.....
We can talk all we want ;p it doesnt mean crap on the internet lol.
ANd when lain played fiction who did he do better with ic or ddd? And doesnt ddd win the match up usually?
thats right.....
Regardless of all this, im wondering something right now.
Im currently doing an ebook for my ipod which will contain all of the matchup information which i collected myself, it will be fairly well detailed, does this warrant a new thread for me to post it. It will also include other stuff, but its probably gonna be more detailed than this thread is. I am aiming at 1 matchup done in every 2 days right now, all of which will be formatted in a convenient manner.
And i agree with meep on this one now. 60-40 ICS
Im currently doing an ebook for my ipod which will contain all of the matchup information which i collected myself, it will be fairly well detailed, does this warrant a new thread for me to post it. It will also include other stuff, but its probably gonna be more detailed than this thread is. I am aiming at 1 matchup done in every 2 days right now, all of which will be formatted in a convenient manner.
And i agree with meep on this one now. 60-40 ICS
r3d d09
Smash Master
I believe it deserves a different thread. and what i say goes
Meep lains IC's are considerably better than his D3.
Also, there is this thing called stage positioning. Wario's pretty good at it, and it beats pivot grab.
Also, there is this thing called stage positioning. Wario's pretty good at it, and it beats pivot grab.
Prawn
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,031
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Okay, watching this vid, is there a way solo climber can infinite wario by just using Airrelease? I wouldn't know, I don't own Brawl.
Wario can just ground break.Okay, watching this vid, is there a way solo climber can infinite wario by just using Airrelease? I wouldn't know, I don't own Brawl.
meepxzero
Smash Master
I think skillwise between his two characters doesnt factor in when he specifically uses DDD for warios and ice climbers for lightweights. If you thought about it overall he would have been at a greater disadvantage with ice climbers because fiction knows how ice climbers work (he plays them as a secondary?). He did get easy gimps on the ice climbers, but most of the time lain just suicided like he was playing drunk or something.
I believe it when lain says he puts equal effort in both chars. Ice climbers are just a better character in general than DDD.
I dont get how wario beats ic pivot grabs when if done right can come out as the same frame as a standing grab and they slide far enough where u can take advantage of their hurt box and not get punished for spamming it.
Wario can also fall to the ground and punish you with DACUS, and you won't be able to punish him back for it.
Just saying "Pivot grab" also doesn't address what to do when IC's happen to fall behind in the match.
Just saying "Pivot grab" also doesn't address what to do when IC's happen to fall behind in the match.
lain
Smash Master
Yeah I sd'd like a ******.
Btw guys, pivot grab. Seriously.
Btw guys, pivot grab. Seriously.
meepxzero
Smash Master
pivot grab dacus?? Good ic dont fall behind and if we do we put u in that situation where ur more than likely to choke at the last 30 seconds.Alright wario wins if he doesnt get grabbed for 8 straight minutes hows that for u wario lurkers -_- sheesh lol. You also win on cruise and brinstar, but if u have less exp than the ic player than ull have the hardest time ( i have more rc exp than most warios i play there every other ***** game). You guys believe u can never get grabbed so keep believing it. We ice climbers believe we can grab u 3 times minimum to win. All this theory talk is stupid cuz more than likely we will grab u more than 5 times but then we will mess up our infinites mayb 1-2 times.
lains right with me just pivot grab and u win. Dont need to be fancy and crap thats what gives wario more opportunities, but of course uair him if hes right above you.
Im done talking about this cuz im just talking in total sarcasm now lolol.
meepxzero
Smash Master
my bad dmg i did like a million edits to my post which i always do so just reread what i read lol.
"Pivot grab" seems to be the main argument for this match >_> It is a situational response, not a cure all.
If like the entire cast has a hard time getting a grab on wario, even with pivot grabs, how the hell do IC's get grabs? Their grab set ups are very limited, especially vs Wario. You basically have to wait for him to **** up.
Slight advantage to wario imo
If like the entire cast has a hard time getting a grab on wario, even with pivot grabs, how the hell do IC's get grabs? Their grab set ups are very limited, especially vs Wario. You basically have to wait for him to **** up.
Slight advantage to wario imo
It's cool, I was like "Is Meep Ok? I hadn't gone that far into the offstage game" lol.
As for stages, I agree he wins on RC and Brinstar. He also wins on Japes if that is legal in your area (applies mostly to Non EC lol, I think Japes is a poo poo stage but some areas allow it), and another stage I think is quite ******** sometimes for Wario is Pictochat. Now if you have even worse stages allowed like Norfair, Green Greens, Port Town Aero, etc then Wario will probably have at least a slight edge on those also.
That's just for some of the CP stages though.
its cause everyone is playing gay against us and we just know how to get grabs =) we know how dude
So.. you said something, but didn't actually say anything.
edit: Emblem Lord told me to tell you
hahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
no seriously?
Really?
hahahahhaahahhahahahahahaah
i said already what i think about this matchups a few pages ago.
with pivot grabs you WILL land a grab on wario.
i´m often playing a decent wario (3rd on the last big tourney in europe) and i can say that wario can be grabbed if you can predict him well.
with pivot grabs you WILL land a grab on wario.
i´m often playing a decent wario (3rd on the last big tourney in europe) and i can say that wario can be grabbed if you can predict him well.
Prediction?
You can't bring that crap into match up discussions plz
You can't bring that crap into match up discussions plz
With that attitude, you better hope he never gets the lead. Ruins any ideas for fun you have with pivot grabs lol.
Gayest strategy is to get a stock lead, kill Nana on purpose on the next stock, and leave Solo Popo alone LOL. He's SO helpless in that situation, and even if he decides to kill himself to get Nana, he's now still at least a full stock down. At that point, Wario could run the entire match and just run out the timer.
Gayest strategy is to get a stock lead, kill Nana on purpose on the next stock, and leave Solo Popo alone LOL. He's SO helpless in that situation, and even if he decides to kill himself to get Nana, he's now still at least a full stock down. At that point, Wario could run the entire match and just run out the timer.
DMG, DACUS is a ****ing terrible option against ICs, lol. Not only could you mess it up, and get grabbed, if they (or even just one of them) shield it, you'll get grabbed.
Wario can go entire games without getting grabbed by ICs, even if they pivot grab and sliding pivot grab... I've done it vs Hylian.
For the record. In Lain vs Fiction, they both played terribly.
Wario can go entire games without getting grabbed by ICs, even if they pivot grab and sliding pivot grab... I've done it vs Hylian.
For the record. In Lain vs Fiction, they both played terribly.
No PX it's a good option if they whiff a pivot grab and do it where they slide away from you while grabbing. If you are close enough to the ground, you can land and do DACUS at them First 2-3 hits will connect, and you will slide past them. It doesn't do a lot of damage, but it punishes them if they miss. Also, unless they do it exceptionally well, you can actually charge in with Dash attack while they are still vulnerable from grabbing and then cancel it into Usmash on the spot when it connects.
Also Lain vs Fiction was weird. Fiction had the wrong approachs, and Lain looked too focused on walling Wario higher in the air, at full hop height or higher.
Also Lain vs Fiction was weird. Fiction had the wrong approachs, and Lain looked too focused on walling Wario higher in the air, at full hop height or higher.
How much lag do you think these grabs have, rofl? The only time DACUS is good at all is if the knockback hit connects, b/c it has quite a bit of endlag, they can run up and grab you.
Lain ****ed up lots of CGs and killed himself, Fiction kept fsmashing their shield, that alone makes it a bad example of anything.
I know they're both great players but that was very far away from being any good display of the matchup.
Lain ****ed up lots of CGs and killed himself, Fiction kept fsmashing their shield, that alone makes it a bad example of anything.
I know they're both great players but that was very far away from being any good display of the matchup.
I'm talking about a scenario where something like Wario SH's towards IC's, near the middle-end of his jump he backs off while they go pivot grab, he lands quickly and does Dacus right there. The scenario I am talking about is where Wario is fairly close and avoids the grab shortly before landing.
You would have to go pretty far not to get punished DMG. PX used to Dacus against me a lot to punish things like that and I can easily just SDI out and take like 2 damage while he ends up in a horrible position, usually either in grab range or an easy squall. They just fall out immediately right beside wario lol.
And for the record, I pivot grab all the time meep lol. And I get grabs out of it. But pinning an entire match-up on one thing is not smart. You are going to play someone who will abuse your habits eventually.
And for the record, I pivot grab all the time meep lol. And I get grabs out of it. But pinning an entire match-up on one thing is not smart. You are going to play someone who will abuse your habits eventually.
My scenario you are hitting them near the very beginning of DACUS, before the halfway point, and then sliding past them.
2-3 hits will connect and Wario will be out of range to punish unless you happen to be really close to the edge when you do it.
2-3 hits will connect and Wario will be out of range to punish unless you happen to be really close to the edge when you do it.
this dacus debate is extremely silly
just saying
just saying
