"I write for my friends" - the growing Ike guide by Kirk and Empy. Updating again!

[UlimateGamer31]

Just wanna say thank you Ussi. This has really improved my Ike game.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

^lol empy you need to update this people are using Ussi's advice now as a guide.

 

[Empy]

Hey, I'm going to be working on some updates the upcoming days and will keep you guys informed.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

*sits, waits, refreshs page, waits, refreshes page....*

I reported it as well he actually did it on a few other stickys so he'll probably be banned soon.

 

[Buddahmonk]

very nice guide here.

 

[Doodx]

wow something realy wierd happened
after not playing smash for like a month, i finaly had the chance to play
i got IKE first and owned all my friends that play at least once a day lol
i main marth since melee but ike realy impressed me that day
lets see what this guide can give us

 

[Ussi]

are your friends noobs? Ike is the prefect noob killer.

But I'll be happy to help with any problems you are having with Ike ;D

btw Ike vs Marth, probably one of the biggest rivalries (in Marth's advantage) since its FE Speed vs Power

 

[comboking]

Hey, I'm going to be working on some updates the upcoming days and will keep you guys informed.

Also, don't click the link above this post, it's German for "me-naked-athome" so either spam or some virus of some sort, I already reported it.

*sits, waits, refreshs page, waits, refreshes page....*

I reported it as well he actually did it on a few other stickys so he'll probably be banned soon.

what are you guys talking about
sorry for the off Topic post but I do not want a virus

 

[Rutger]

what are you guys talking about
sorry for the off Topic post but I do not want a virus

There was a post above Empy with just a link and nothing else, it has been deleted so if you have not seen the post then Empy and Arturito_Burrito's posts will make no since.

 

[Lex Crunch]

...you probably know that Olimar destroys Ike. Those **** Pikmin with their range and speed can combo Ike to hell and keep him in the air for a while. Olimar's ridiculous grab range completely destroys Ike's approach.

/thread (clicky)

 

[Sharky]

my compliments again to the thread

not directly related to the topic, but I thought it should be known that Hurricane Ike is currently heading towards Cuba =P

 

[Ucasami]

Dam empy you did a great job on this thread, helped me a lot with improving my game with Ike. Keep up the good work

 

[aurasword]

Great guide, it was very helpful to me. Good job with it all.

 

[Diableos Auros]

Hrmm...

It would be best to say that Ike is a heavyweight character due to his heavy 2-Handed Sword, which would actually rank him as one.

Since he's fast, he is one of the fastest heavyweights, not to mention one of the strongest!

However, his recovery is one of the worst, but if you're a master at brawling with Ike, you should be able to manage.

~Diableos D. Auros

 

[PiKaos]

Nice guide guys. I agree with basically everything here; but I think you've over-rated the Nair a bit. I don't think it's a great approach move in most circumstances, because it just doesnt have enough forward reach. I personally prefer fullhop fastfall Fairs, if you time it right you get virtually no landing lag and it covers a massive area above, in front and below you. I use the Nair generally if i predict someone rolling behind me, but other than that I don't like it much. I'd rate it 6 or 7/10, but thats just my opinion.
I have to agree that Lucas is definitely one of Ike's worst matchups. Lucas is quick in the air, has a good grab range with which to abuse Ike's lagginess, and has annoyingly good ranged edgeguarding. I want to add though, I know a good Jigglypuff, and my Ike destroys him pretty much every time. You just have to abuse the Fair a lot to build up damage, and an Uptilt or Uair will easily kill Puff at 60-80% (without degradation).

 

[Diableos Auros]

Nice guide guys. I agree with basically everything here; but I think you've over-rated the Nair a bit. I don't think it's a great approach move in most circumstances, because it just doesnt have enough forward reach. I personally prefer fullhop fastfall Fairs, if you time it right you get virtually no landing lag and it covers a massive area above, in front and below you. I use the Nair generally if i predict someone rolling behind me, but other than that I don't like it much. I'd rate it 6 or 7/10, but thats just my opinion.
I have to agree that Lucas is definitely one of Ike's worst matchups. Lucas is quick in the air, has a good grab range with which to abuse Ike's lagginess, and has annoyingly good ranged edgeguarding. I want to add though, I know a good Jigglypuff, and my Ike destroys him pretty much every time. You just have to abuse the Fair a lot to build up damage, and an Uptilt or Uair will easily kill Puff at 60-80% (without degradation).

I'm afraid I have to stop you there.

I was playing online and in a normal FFA Brawl with CPU's, and in both of those matches, there was a Lucas.

However, even though he is quick, I did manage to destroy him as Ike.

I mean, if you roll behind him just as he's charging a smash or something, you can quickly get a massive hit on him from behind.

Also, if you've just lagged, but then you can get one of his quick moves in and Lucas is coming for you, either dodge, or better would be to Counter.

 

[raph21]

ok i've battled a lot of DKs, and good ones too and i'll say this.

DK's HATE Ike. Ike's big disjointed hit box really gives Ike and advantage here. and the fact that DK's recovery is one sided like Ike's means they can gimp each other. Jab is what DK hates about you the most. As it is so fast and they can't do anything about it. Alot of DK's try to shield grab your fair so Make sure you maximize your spacing because DK has a good grab range. And getting grabbed = death for you once you at higher %'s. He can stage spike or just cargo down throw you off the stage.

BUT, If you can land the aether spike on DK, he is NOT coming back at all, he has NO vertical recovery. I've killed many DK's this way. DK will also ledge stall with his Up B till you get too close then he'll ledge attack you, if 100% that is. Also, if he is steaming (fully charged DK punch) then he'll attack you with that off the ledge sometimes. Counter works wonders on that. Forward tilt is great in this match in my opinion. its good for finishing off DK since DK is pretty fast. But when it comes to speed, Ike's jabs are the fastest in this match up.

DK also likes to approach with his Bair which can auto cancel and be done twice in a short hop, yep its that fast. He has the fastest aerial of you two. But, fair has more range so if you exploit that you can knock him out of it. Best to shield than jab when on the ground, but watch out DK can WOP you with it and gimp you with it. You might want to peak aether (Aether when the peak is at the ledge) To not get gimped.

DK also tries to approach with Up B super armor frames. Be careful but jab cancels it out once the SA frames are over, (which when he starts spinning). I normally approach by air though so i end up jumping over it and just fair then out of it. If a DK recovers too high with his Up B, you get a free forward tilt in. yea, Dk has bad post lag when landing.

One 2nd last note, the DK punch is much more stronger than fully charged when its at 7-9 wind ups. (the number of times DK spins his arms around). It does more knock back and kills you by 50%. So be on your guard, but the flaw in this is the the punch does NOT have super armor frames. DK's who don't use SAF though will love this technique and will abuse it. But note it takes longer for them to use it making it very counterable once you get the hang of it.

My final note is that DK and Ike kill each other at the same speed generally. His forward smash kills you by 100% sweetspoted (his hands)... (ok...stage dependable) Your kill move in this match is forward tilt. That kills by 100-110%. (stage dependable) If you land forward smash, (which can hit DK from behind cause of his size, so a roll happy DK is prefect prey for this) it kills DK at 80%. Use fairs and nairs, but i think drop the nairs when DK is near the edge and your at a %'s. You don't want to get shield grabbed and stage spiked, kills you at 45%. jab is DK's worst enemy. Bair is a good finisher and follow up to some moves.

55-60% cause its all on who can kill. But Ike's disjointed hitbox and jab is an edge in getting the damage first.

lol DK´s aint the only ones who hate Ike, almost everybody does, my friends tell me its the sword its the sword, also texas is scared of ike lol

but 1 thing i dont kno how to win aganist is a sonic grab spammer, the borther of a homie runs there and comes back to grab me and repeats the same **** over and over that pisses specially when he says hes better than u just cuz hes spammin(good thing he looses alot XD and that only happen when he uses sonic) how the hell i counter that?!

 

[Empy]

Heya all, so I've finally found some time to update this. Thanks a lot to everyone who has contributed main while. It has taken a so long for various reasons. First off I've just been short of time so I couldn't really figure out what I could update, except for match-ups. Second, I wanted to see how certain match-ups developed. However, I've come to the conclusion that it's better to just describe them how I think they are and alter them if anyone disagrees (with good arguments).

Third was the fact that match-ups are hard to judge without having a stage to judge it on. So it would come down either to stating just general tips. However, general tips evolving around edges/infinites etc.. could all turn out to be wrong on a different stage. So I decided I'd state general tips in 1 section and what stages to pick against who in another. This leads to a massive amount of extra work, because I'll have to judge every match-up on every stage. However, imo it's so much more important than in any other fighting game/smash game that it's absolutely necessary to do so.

Anyway, I'm working on catching up on all the comments and I've used the second post to make it easier. I'm also going to use stuff from other match-up threads (including the new one by our Death Note fan) with the thread starters permission and correct credits of course.

Again, sorry for taking this long but I'll do as much as possible the following time and I'll force myself to work on it more often than I've done so far.

Edit: on a random note I'm going to split Pokemon trainer into 3 different characters.

 

[PiKaos]

I'm afraid I have to stop you there.
I was playing online and in a normal FFA Brawl with CPU's...

That right there counters your own argument really. Playing against CPUs isn't really a good way to judge how a character plays: for example, CPUs will spam Smash attacks over and over and over once you get above about 80%, and (good) players don't do that. This gives you more chances to catch out a computer than a player.
Also, in FFA matches, players have more than one opponent to concentrate on, so they have a harder time dodging attacks (such as Ike's side Smash, which is regularly spammed in online matches). Another thing is that online matches tend to have a half-second delay or so before each command is carried out, and characters who are already laggy have an easier time adjusting to the lag.
Not trying to be harsh here buddy but try playing a good Lucas in a 1vs1 match with no items and see how you get on.

Empy, good idea with the Pokemon Trainer thing. My friend who plays Jigglypuff is a bit of a Pokemaniac, and I have some 1vs1 experience against his PT too. From my experience, Ike has most trouble with Ivysaur (Ivysaur's Bair and Neutral B can really cause Ike problems), and least trouble with Squirtle (he is very easily KO'd/ edgehogged).

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

^not only that quote but the people he describes to be playing sound like they suck. Plus there is the ever amusing hey I can beat my sisters MK with ganon. MK should be bottom tier and ganon god because of me.

And you where wrong with Nair. It is probably Ike's best aerial you just don't know how to use it and there for don't know how to use Ike.

Nice to see this finally being updated Empy. Hopefully people don't come in to argue the PT match up as a whole like in the other match up thread.

 

[•Col•]

^not only that quote but the people he describes to be playing sound like they suck. Plus there is the ever amusing hey I can beat my sisters MK with ganon. MK should be bottom tier and ganon god because of me.

And you where wrong with Nair. It is probably Ike's best aerial you just don't know how to use it and there for don't know how to use Ike.

I agree with this.... Ike's nair is VERY good..... And literally, he said it perfectly... xD ". . . you just don't know how to use it and there for don't know how to use Ike."

Nair is one of Ike's [ONLY] combo starters... Now that's a statement, right there... <_<

 

[MysticKenji]

Nair is awesome and essential to Ike's gameplay.

One thing I'd like to mention about Ike's get-up attack is that it has about the same range as Ftilt.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Which one the under 100% or the one above? because I do believe one has more than the other.

Also this has been the most active this guide has been in a long time. keep it going

 

[Empy]

He's referring to the attack you can use when lying on the ground. Which has a great range to both sides. The over 100% ledge attack has the most range from both ledge attacks btw, however, the one below 100% can be used as a shield stabber and it's range is still better than it looks.

On a random note, centered the attack, stage and character names to make it a bit easier to read and search for stuff. Also, the title has changed from complete Ike guide, to growing Ike guide, as it's not yet complete.

It's 4 and a half hours past midnight here though so I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get some sleep (alarm set to 9 o clock ).

 

[PiKaos]

Nair is one of Ike's [ONLY] combo starters...

xD Ike doesn't know the meaning of the word combo. If you're lucky or the opponent is useless at dodging, you might get a Nair-AA-grab "combo", but thats about it. Also, I do know how to use the Nair; but it's not as good as an approach as Fair because it has less forward priority. Empy said that it's a good move to approach with, and I disagree. SH Bairs are also better IMO. (RAR).
Also, my general way to get up from a ledge (if the opponent is standing on the edge) is drop down and Aether. If the opponent dodges, you can just grab the ledge again, and if they don't, the last hit of Aether will knock them away. Ike's ledge attacks leave him open after he swings his sword and aren't that hard to see coming, so I prefer not to use them often.

 

[•Col•]

xD Ike doesn't know the meaning of the word combo. If you're lucky or the opponent is useless at dodging, you might get a Nair-AA-grab "combo", but thats about it. Also, I do know how to use the Nair; but it's not as good as an approach as Fair because it has less forward priority. Empy said that it's a good move to approach with, and I disagree. SH Bairs are also better IMO. (RAR).
Also, my general way to get up from a ledge (if the opponent is standing on the edge) is drop down and Aether. If the opponent dodges, you can just grab the ledge again, and if they don't, the last hit of Aether will knock them away. Ike's ledge attacks leave him open after he swings his sword and aren't that hard to see coming, so I prefer not to use them often.

Uh.... If you hit with the nair and it autocancels once you land, you can follow up with the jab combo (at lower %'s, of course).... It's inescapable and one of the "true combos" of Brawl... <_< So I dunno what you're talking about when you say that you can get it off only if you're opponent is useless at dodging...

And the nair has no landing lag, and covers almost all the way around Ike's body... That's why it's good.... It's definitely not a useless move to approach with... >_>

 

[Diableos Auros]

That right there counters your own argument really. Playing against CPUs isn't really a good way to judge how a character plays: for example, CPUs will spam Smash attacks over and over and over once you get above about 80%, and (good) players don't do that. This gives you more chances to catch out a computer than a player.
Also, in FFA matches, players have more than one opponent to concentrate on, so they have a harder time dodging attacks (such as Ike's side Smash, which is regularly spammed in online matches). Another thing is that online matches tend to have a half-second delay or so before each command is carried out, and characters who are already laggy have an easier time adjusting to the lag.
Not trying to be harsh here buddy but try playing a good Lucas in a 1vs1 match with no items and see how you get on.

Empy, good idea with the Pokemon Trainer thing. My friend who plays Jigglypuff is a bit of a Pokemaniac, and I have some 1vs1 experience against his PT too. From my experience, Ike has most trouble with Ivysaur (Ivysaur's Bair and Neutral B can really cause Ike problems), and least trouble with Squirtle (he is very easily KO'd/ edgehogged).

Well, it was just a 1v1 once, but then again, nobody I have on my Friend List is as good as/better than me anyway so...

I mean, I beat ZSS with Jiggz, seriously... how bad can you get?

 

[PiKaos]

It's inescapable and one of the "true combos" of Brawl...

All you have to do is airdodge before or after Ike's Nair hits you, and then DI backwards... it's definitely not inescapable, even at 0%.
Also, I never said it was useless to approach with, but I just find Fairs much more useful. You don't have to get in close at all to connect with a Fair, whereas with the Nair Ike swings his sword much closer to his body.
Anyway, we should stop arguing about this or everyone will lose track of the guide maybe I'll just keep my Nair opinions to myself in future.

 

[MysticKenji]

If you're lucky or the opponent is useless at dodging, you might get a Nair-AA-grab "combo", but thats about it.

Nair -> Jab works pretty reliably

Also, I do know how to use the Nair; but it's not as good as an approach as Fair because it has less forward priority.

...what?
What does this even mean? ?_?

Also, my general way to get up from a ledge (if the opponent is standing on the edge) is drop down and Aether.

But this won't put you back on stage, so...huh?
Also, your opponent can run off and stagespike you >_>

Ike's ledge attacks leave him open after he swings his sword and aren't that hard to see coming, so I prefer not to use them often.

Ike's ledge attack under 100% is pretty good, but the one when over that precent is horrid.

 

[Rykoshet]

All you have to do is airdodge before or after Ike's Nair hits you, and then DI backwards...

Uh if you air dodged, meaning you DIDN'T get hit, what would you be DIing exactly?

 

[Ussi]

you should add my olimar description on page 13. It may not be prefect but it helps.

 

[PiKaos]

Forward priority: the area of effect an attack has in front of the character who is using it. Maybe I should have just said "the Fair hits further away." Sorry for bad wording <_<

About the whole Aether thing; if you tap away from the edge while Ike is holding on to it and immediately use Aether, he will throw his sword through the edge and hit anyone standing on it. If you hit your opponent with this sword throw, you should then DI forwards, which will land you on the stage and knock your opponent away. If the sword does not hit, you should slightly DI backwards and sweetspot the edge as Ike comes down. It's pretty hard to stop this, as Ike has very few frames where he can actually be hit. If you don't know what I mean, try it against a computer or someone else and just see how it works, it honestly is very helpful. If I had a decent way of recording, I'd post a video and show you how simple and effective it is, but I don't atm =/
And on edge attacks; as soon as a character holding onto an edge starts moving, a quick opponent reacts by dodging or jumping and then counterattacking; with most characters I generally avoid using their edge attacks because of this (not just Ike).

 

[•Col•]

All you have to do is airdodge before or after Ike's Nair hits you, and then DI backwards... it's definitely not inescapable, even at 0%.
Also, I never said it was useless to approach with, but I just find Fairs much more useful. You don't have to get in close at all to connect with a Fair, whereas with the Nair Ike swings his sword much closer to his body.
Anyway, we should stop arguing about this or everyone will lose track of the guide maybe I'll just keep my Nair opinions to myself in future.

UMM.... Well yeah it's not going to work if you airdodge the nair... ._. That should be obvious... Second, they shouldn't even be able to airdodge when they are standing on the ground... <_< And if they're at a low %, I don't even think it's possible to airdodge after the nair to dodge the jab combo..... Can someone confirm/debunk this?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

^no they don't have time to airdodge this is like that guy on page 7 who was telling us to use items.

Forward priority: the area of effect an attack has in front of the character who is using it. Maybe I should have just said "the Fair hits further away." Sorry for bad wording <_<

About the whole Aether thing; if you tap away from the edge while Ike is holding on to it and immediately use Aether, he will throw his sword through the edge and hit anyone standing on it. If you hit your opponent with this sword throw, you should then DI forwards, which will land you on the stage and knock your opponent away. If the sword does not hit, you should slightly DI backwards and sweetspot the edge as Ike comes down. It's pretty hard to stop this, as Ike has very few frames where he can actually be hit. If you don't know what I mean, try it against a computer or someone else and just see how it works, it honestly is very helpful. If I had a decent way of recording, I'd post a video and show you how simple and effective it is, but I don't atm =/
And on edge attacks; as soon as a character holding onto an edge starts moving, a quick opponent reacts by dodging or jumping and then counterattacking; with most characters I generally avoid using their edge attacks because of this (not just Ike).

Ok 1st off learn the definitions of the actual vocabulary used in smash before you start making up your own. Moving your control stick from left to right is not DIing. jumping up and then moving your controller from left to right is not DIing. Aethering up then move your controller from left to right is not DIing.

Now then onto your horrible way of using Ike. Nair is probably a better approach method than Fair when you are trying to build up damage. It is also a better defensive move when up close, Giving it a 7/10 is stupid and I still stand by my statement that you don't know how to use Nair and there for you don't know how to use Ike.

also the point of this guide is to discuss Ike's metagame, not just come and say nice guide then leave it alone.

 

[PiKaos]

OK, I've gone away and looked up DI, and found it means Directional Influence. I thought it meant Directional Input, e.g the direction you push the control stick. Sorry for mixing up terminology, but you don't have to be so hostile, I'm new to the whole Smash forums thing.
Next, I don't have a "horrible" way of using Ike. Just because it differs from yours doesn't make it horrible. I know how to use Nair to link to jab combos, but these combos do relatively low damage and only work when the opponent is at low damage anyway, so I generally end up using the Fair a lot more to approach when the opponent has more than 30% or so.
When an opponent is pressuring you though, I agree Nair the best move to stop them rolling around, and the auto-cancel can give an approaching opponent less chance to hit you than Ike's other attacks would.

Also, test if you don't believe me; at about 20% for most characters (unless it has been repeatedly used and degraded) the knockback of the Nair is far enough for an opponent to dodge any jabs that follow.

 

[Kirk]

You are falling into the misconception that Nair should only be used as a "combo starter" when this is far from the truth.

Some practical uses for the heck of it:

--As yourself and most everyone does, Nair --> followup. Can be jabs, grab, bair, uptilt, etc. Self-explanatory.

--So what if you're opponent likes to spot dodge a lot or roll? Positioning yourself correctly can punish these habits. Nair's hitbox stays out for a looong time, and can hit your opponent when they come out of their invincibility reliably when done correctly.

--If you're opponent likes to shield your Nair(who doesn't? o.O), if spaced right, you are in another great position. With the low lag upon landing, why not go in for a jab or grab? Chances are you're opponent would try and shieldgrab/attack out of shield. You are in a position to punish their whiffed grab, for example. If they dodge, expecting a followup, just hold A :D Those are just a few scenarios, but you get the idea.

--You get knocked into the air, and your opponent is coming up for a followup...Nair! With a lingering hitbox, Nair can sometimes prove useful in intercepting and protecting yourself.

That's off the top of my head. Be creative with it and see what you can come up with :D

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I wasn't trying to be hostile although I do come off a lot like that. I just consider stupid and dumb to be adjectives that people put to use quite often including me. If you ever catch me being stupid feel free to call me on it.

 

[PiKaos]

Kirk, thanks for the good post! Finally someone has responded to me without picking what I've said to pieces =P
The ways you've listed to use Nair are very similar to the way I already use it. It's a helpful move, but as an aggressive player, I just tend not to use it as much as a lot of other players I've seen. I'll have to try using it with jabs to stop those annoying shield grabs though =)
I'll just say now; the main reason I don't like the Nair that much is because it's not exactly lagless; you can use ground attacks instantly upon landing, but if you hit the ground during or just after it's use, you still can't jump again straight away (like the rest of his aerials). My style of play is to use a lot of shorthopped and fullhopped aerials; Fair and Bair just seem easier to connect with.

 

[Snail]

Good guide Empy :D Can't wait for your Olimar description haha ^^

 

[neon..?]

nair is a beast. and nice guide it really helped.