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"I write for my friends" - the growing Ike guide by Kirk and Empy. Updating again!

Empy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
659
Location
Zoetermeer, The Netherlands (it ain't much, if it
1. Table of contents.



1. Table of contents.
2. General information about this guide.
3. Ike impression.
4. What you should know about the game.
5. General terms.
6. How to practice.
7. Ike's attacks.
8. Ike's metagame.
9. Ike; pros and cons.
10. Counterpicking stages.
11. Match-ups.
12. FAQ.
13. Leaving feedback.
14. Credits.



2. General information about this guide.


First off, let me tell you that this guide is meant to teach you how to play Ike competitively. To be able to do so will require some basic knowledge. If you are sure you are ready to play at high levels, or are already doing so, you can skip right ahead to the part about his attacks.

I will try to explain any abbreviations (shortened names), as there is no Brawl compendium at the moment. I will explain from the very basics to the most complicated stuff Ike has to offer. And I will try to help you with what you should and shouldn't do. Also, please use a Gamecube controller when playing Brawl. A Gamecube controller will make preforming certain techniques a lot easier than a wiimote and a nunchuk. If you are 100% sure you don't want to go for a Gamecube controller, you should try the Wii Classic controller but since I play with a Gamecube one I will explain everything according to its layout.

3. Ike general impression.

Ike is not an overpowered character like many players new to the series tend to believe. Ike is at best a medium character: devastating when fought incorrectly, but easily punished. Ike is a very slow character, but causes a lot of damage. Ike is pretty heavy, so he doesn't die that fast and can KO at very low percentages. The hardest thing to do with Ike is to actually hit something. Ike is horrible when it comes to combos.

If you want to main/keep maining Ike, remember you will have more bad match-ups than higher tier characters. This might make it a bit harder to stick with him. However Ike doesn't have a lot of match-ups that are completely lost beforehand. He can kill at such low % that with good mindgames you'll always be a threat. And even though you'll have a harder time being an Ike main than being a Snake main, it'll give that much more satisfaction when you win.

4. The basics.

In Smash, it's important to know all your options. Choosing the best attack is just as important as choosing the right way to avoid an attack. Make sure you know what options you have, by knowing all your attacks, knowing where they can hit and how fast they start and end.

You should know that spot-dodging (shielding and pressing down) is faster than a roll (shielding and pressing left or right). Both however, have certain frames in which you can be hit but can't perform any action (frames are like pieces of time within Brawl, 1 frame is 1/60th of a second). Shielding does not have this problem. However, your shield gets smaller each time it receives a hit and as it gets smaller it will not cover certain parts of your body. These parts can be attacked normally.

If your shield completely goes away, you're left standing stunned and will give your opponent a free hit of his choice. You can also powershield which is done by shielding just before the opponent's attack hits you. You will hear a different sound and your shield will only be visible shortly. The benefit is that you won't be pushed back and you have no lag after being hit, as your shield is gone right after. This is great because you can attack straight away and your shield won't get any smaller.

Stale moves or move degradation is also something to remember. Each time you perform an attack and hit with it, it gets weaker. It takes 9 other attacks before that attack returns to normal.

In your matches, always make sure you know what your opponent is doing. If there is something you don't understand, ask them and if they refuse to answer, try searching the boards, or just ask it in this thread.

5. General terms.

Directional Influence; DI is used in two ways. One is to survive KO moves and one is to get out of combos. DI is done after the hitlag of an attack and is decided by the position your control stick and c-stick are being held. Keep holding your stick to alter the trajectory you move along. The c-stick has priority over the control stick.

Escaping combos with DI should be used at low % and works the best by going away from the place your opponent tries to send you. So when being hit up, try to DI down and away from your opponent and when you are being hit to the right, try to DI up and further to the right (to the left will just keep you close to your opponent).

Survival DI should be used at high % and works the best when you DI pendicular to your normal trajectory. So if you are sent flying to the right and slightly upwards, DI to the upper left corner. This will bend your trajectory more upwards, where the corner is further away and shorten it slightly.

Warning - DI is NOT the same as moving around in the air. I have heard people say stuff like "just DI back to the stage instead of doing (jump, an attack, etc.)". This is not DI. DI is done just after hitlag and up to your flying distance. Even worse is stuff like "shorthop nair and DI backwards". This would suggest hitting yourself with your own attack, sending yourself straight up (with nair?) and then using DI to move yourself off the stage, so you can be edgeguarded. What people mean is just jumping backwards and pressing A.

Important for veterans; a major change since Melee is that you can actually use DI to shorten the trajectory you are being send flying. Like when holding down when being send straight up. Also, you can now kill yourself with it, if you hold up when being send straight up. Neither would do anything in Melee, as DI in the same direction as your trajectory wasn't registered.

Smash Directional Influence; SDI is done by smashing the control or c-stick during the hitlag of an attack. Just like normal DI, c-stick takes priority. Smash DI teleports you a small distance before flying away from the attack. It's easiest to see upon being hit by Samus her charged shot. This has several frames of hitlag so you can SDI a few times. Pokemon like Entei also help as they hit you with a few frames of hitlag every so many frames, allowing you to SDI circles and stupid stuff like that.

Edgeguarding; making sure your opponent can't get back to the stage. This can be done in several ways. Check the "Ike's metagame" section for more details.

Frames; each game runs several frames per second. A frame is just a piece of time. The speed Brawl runs at is 60 frames per second (60 fps). This means that every 1/60th of a second you can start an action. Everything is measured in frames as well, it's the smallest piece of time (timeframe) the game can measure at.

Hitlag; hitlag are a few frames after an attack hits you in which you won't fly away. You can insert SDI here. Best seen on Samus her charged shot.

Hitbox; this is where an attack does damage. An attack usually has more than one hitbox and sometimes one starts earlier then the other.

Jab-cancel; crouching to stop your jab combo from finishing. To do this, after the second jab is finished, hit down for as short as possible. You can now jab normally without having to do a different move or wait for some time. This allows you to do AA, AA, AA as much as you want. (It's wise to keep an eye on your opponent though).

Knockback; this is how far a character flies after an attack. An attack with a lot of knockback is better for KO's; an attack with few knockback is better for combo's.

Ledgehop; pressing away from a ledge and then immediately double jump. This let's you jump above the stage. Mostly meant for using an aerial as a safe way to get back to the stage. Also useful in edgeguarding by doing a bair or dair.

Metagame; basically, how a person plays. It can refer to many things, like saying they have a highly developed Metagame, meaning they both know very well what they are doing and react to one another accordingly.

Meteor Smash; an attack that sends you straight down, unable to do anything but Meteor Cancel.

Meteor Cancel; hitting UpB or jump after a Meteor Smash. You won't be able to do your up B or jump until after you have fallen half the distance you normally would. With tap jump on you can just keep hitting up on your control stick. Hitting a jump button too early makes you unable to meteor cancel even longer and hitting one again will reset that timer, so smash up on the control stick, not a jump button.

Powershielding; shielding at the very last moment before an attack hits you. This is made pretty easy in Brawl. In Melee you had to be frame-perfect, however, in Brawl, just doing it somewhere around the time you would get hit is enough.

RAR; Reversed Aerial Rush, done by running and pressing the opposite direction just before a jump. This will turn your character around when jumping, but keeps it going towards the direction you were already going in. By holding that direction and A you can now do a bair just like you would normally do a fair. By letting go of everything after you jump, you can do a nair with A as well.

Reversed Usmash; can be done with both tap jump on and off. With tap jump on, just run, press the opposite direction and immediately hit your control stick up and A at the same time. For the *** jump off, run, press diagonally behind and up on your control stick and press X/Y and A at the same time. This works pretty much like the RAR but instead of an aerial you do an Usmash. Useful for Ike, because his Usmash actually reaches further to the back than to the front.

(Infinite) Second Jump Recovery; (I)SJR is done by buffering a jump during an aerial that would end at the same time as it would hit the ground. This causes you to double jump without any landing lag and even after you used your second jump. Some characters can do this infinitely because they have aerials shorter than the time the second jump takes. The game counts this as if you landed and therefor returns your air jumps, -1 for the jump it uses right away. Ike doesn't really benefit from this as it's aerials take too long and they have to be finished, not cancelled like with nair.

Super Armor Frames; SAF are frames in an attack where the character doesn't receive any knockback but the character still receives normal damage. This means you finish your attack as normal and can still do damage. Aether has these frames to help you in your recovery, though they are at the very start and you are usually pretty far away from your enemy at that point. Eruption has these frames as well just after releasing B and before stabbing the ground. These are much more useful as you can use time them to be at the same moment your opponent would damage you. And Eruption will hit them or even KO them.

Shorthop; tapping the jump button fast to do a shorter jump then normal. This is very useful for doing aerials meant to hit a target that is still on the ground. Or hitting a character that is using its roll. An aerial done close to the ground also means you spend less time in the air, so you can do a new attack faster.

Spike; in Melee, a spike referred to a Meteor Smash that can't be Meteor canceled. People first believed the Meteor Cancel to be removed in Brawl, so they claimed any Meteor Smash is a spike. It's the opposite however - any Meteor can be canceled and spikes no longer exist. The term is now used at random by people who don't know where it comes from.

Spot-dodge; hitting down while shielding. This evades attacks and gives you a chance to counter right away. It's much faster than rolling or shielding and then dropping your shield to do another attack. You still have some time in which you are defenseless after this though, so don't spam it.

Tap Jump on/off; an option you can find under controller settings. It allows you to decide whether tapping the control stick up will make you jump or not. It depends on your own preference really. Keeping tap jump on makes it easier to Meteor Cancel. Switching it off makes it easier to do uairs and utilts. Your choice really, you can learn to do utilt and uairs pretty easily with it on, but you can learn to meteor cancel with jump button or upb as well.

6. How to practice.

If you want to try anything listed in this guide, use the "group Brawl" option, not the 1P training mode. The 1P training has many bugs. On top, moves do not degrade, and the slower speed options may tempt you. That will not help your play.

You can practice most stuff on an idle P2, like your wiimote (as your using a Gamecube controller, remember). Of course, actual matches are the best type of training. However, make sure something is really useful before getting used to it. Ike's fully charged forward smash, for example, might be able to kill your little sister, but once she turns 4, she should be smart enough to dodge it.

Kirk pointed out that there are some advantages for using training mode and we will discuss and update on this at a later time.

Training stupid stuff only makes you worse as a player so don't train anything that won’t work in actual matches. Combo’s that are too easy to get out from shouldn’t become part of your play because good people will suprise you and hit you with ease. You shouldn't train on opponents who don’t fight back if you don't know what they could do (like training to time an fsmash on a standing opponent).

7. Ike's attacks.

Here, I will explain all of Ike's attacks, and which ones you should use and which ones you shouldn't. First I'll tell how much % damage it does and the lowest it can degrade to, then how useful it is on a scale of 1/10, 10 being the best and 1 being a nearly useless move.

Tilts and jabs.

Jab (just hold A).​

4% with his fist, 3% with his elbow. Degrade to 2% with his fist, 1% with his elbow.

9/10; very useful attack, it's very fast and it keeps your opponent in place. It's a great way to start attacking after having shielded an attack. It can also cancel out a lot of other attacks.

This attack is easily used by holding down the A button. However, tapping the A button does have some advantages. You can time your hits slightly better and it's easier to do something else after the first hit, like a grab or a different attack. A single jab and then grabbing can be done pretty fast and it's a great mindgame/set-up. This works best when cancelling the jab combo by hitting down very quickly.

For some reason hitting with his elbow does less damage; however, hitting with his shoulder (so if you're standing very close against your opponent) does normal damage. This information won't help you much in a battle though.

Jab 2 (AA)​

5%, degrade to 3%, degrades separately from the other jabs.

7/10; pretty good attack, does some damage and always does the same knockback to your opponent. Ike also takes a small step forward. Just A and grab is a good way to mix up your play and stay fresh and unpredictable. Jab canceling is pretty good for this. Just going AA, then crouch then AA again can be pretty frustrating for your opponent.

It is possible for certain characters to hit you between the first and second jab by using a move with very few start up frames and high priority. Best known is Marth his upB. Credit goes to Yuna for finding this.

Funny but not very useful thing to do, is to hold A and release it after the second jab. If you then hold A again very fast, you'll start over with the first jab. This only works without hitting your opponent and when you only let go of it extremely shortly. Ike will take the step forward involved in this jab and you can walk around on the stage with it.

Jab 3 (AAA)​

7%, degrade to 6%, degrades separately from the other jabs.

5/10; can kill, but not as fast as Ike's other moves. However, it's easy to see it coming. Don't ever do this when your opponent shielded either your A or AA, as it will get sidestepped and they will hurt you instead. Of course, if this happens to you once, you can delay the third hit and knock them out of the sidestep later. Delaying the third hit is done easiest by just pressing A instead of holding and then waiting with the third hit. Please note that even though the damage only degrades by 1%, the knockback goes back considerably and will allow your opponents to live much longer.

Dash Attack (A while running)​

8% with the tip, 6% with the handle, degrade to 4% with the tip, 3% with the handle.

7/10; useful only if used correctly. Make sure you hit with the absolute tip of the sword, because it leaves the least opportunity for your opponent to counter. Also, make sure you don't always use this while running but rather mix it up a bit. Opponents can be amazed by how far this move reaches. Of course, you should train and learn the distance. Abuse the range correctly and it makes for a pretty good attack.

An easy way to perform this from standing is to dash and directly hit down on your c-stick. This will leave very little of your dash animation visible and won't give away what you are doing.

Get-up Attack (A while on the ground)​

6% to both the front and back hits, degrade to 4% on both hits, they always degrade the same together

6/10 Has invincibility frames which is very handy. Learn to abuse them correctly and not get hit right afterwards. Every character has this problem but I think Ike has one of the better get-up attacks because of the bigger range which almost the same as ftilt. Try to tech more than falling on the ground though, if you want to survive certain combos however, you'll have to drop and use this instead. So overall, teching/tech rolling is the better option, but this one is not too bad.

Ledge Attack (A while hanging on a ledge)​

8%, 6% to the back, degrades to 3,75%, 2% to the back

6/10 Pretty fast and not too bad at all imo. The range might be a bit larger than it looks as Ike actually swings his sword forward a bit. Can be used as a shield stabber from time to time. Just be careful when you use it, ledgehopping, rolling or jumping are often better options because this leaves you with some lag.

One thing I do like to do is hang on the edge with invincibility frames forcing the opponent to recover onto the stage and then hitting them with this, it's fairly quick so hard to punish when people are still returning to the stage.

Ledge Attack 2 (A while hanging on a ledge with 100% or higher damage)​

10%, degrades to 4,5%

5/10 Pretty good range on this one, which is useful, but very slow and much easier to punish than the other one. This will not be degraded even if the ledge attack 1 was, so it might be worth the risk getting 10% damage in, but don't use it often.

Ftilt (forward tilt)​

15% degrade to 7%.

7/10; hits very far and when you hit with the very tip, it mostly won't be a problem if it gets shielded. Can kill pretty well. The straight horizontal knockback makes it safe to start running after your opponent right after you hit, so you can jump and do an aerial or start edgeguarding. It's useful for spacing and it hits the same everywhere on the blade.

Great for catching opponents that fall to the ground. If you hit someone of a platform with (as example) your usmash and they fall off the platform, hitting with a ftilt is a pretty good option.

Dtilt (down tilt)​

14% degrade to 6%

5/10; mostly used outside of the stage to spike opponents to their doom. Try not to crouch before doing this attack but performing it just like other tilts. Big downside of this move is that it doesn't work when your opponents sweetspots the ledge. This means good players will be able to avoid it if you're just gonna stand there.

A way to work with this is to make it follow up A jab. If you jab someone of the ledge with AA you can dtilt them right after, mostly because pressing down will cancel your jab combo anyway. Also possible with opponents that are already besides the stage, but it'll be better to just use a single jab then. The A/AA to dtilt combo can work on stage as well hitting your opponent straight up. It won't kill easily but it does pretty good damage if it's not degraded.

Utilt (up tilt)​

12% in front of Ike, 9% behind him, degrade to 5% in front of Ike, 4% behind him.

8/10; very good move, quick, has a strong knockback at high percentage and at low % you can try to follow up with nair or uair. It hits a very little bit behind him, which does less damage and slightly less knockback.

It's a great attack when it comes to stopping approaches, mostly against air attacks. It has good priority and the hitbox stays out pretty long, longer than the usmash actually which hits more around your body. It can also hit people on platforms without too much risk of being countered, which is a great way to pressure.

Aerials.

Nair (neutral aerial attack)​

9%, degrade to 4%

10/10; Ike his best air move. It's a good move to combo with and it hits a large part around his body. This move can hit under and even pretty far behind him, making it useful for many situations. You can punish people that roll too often and you can try to follow up with all kinds of attacks. A commonly used follow up is to fast fall and directly jab. You can then jab combo or grab your opponent. Don't use this move outside of the stage, it lasts way too long and you will probably die.

It can also be canceled by landing on the stage early in the move. One way to do this is to face a Bowser and, while falling towards the stage, hit A when you're about as high as his highest spike. You'll hit him but the sword will stop swinging right after and you're able to do any attack right away. So anywhere on the attack you can just land and will have nothing but the landing lag you would have if you didn't use an Aerial at all.

Uair (upwards air)​

14% degrade to 7%

8/10; can kill pretty easily, it's one of Ike's less commonly used aerials so it won't degrade as much. You can catch opponents coming out of an airdodge with this. The hitbox stays out pretty long and is very wide on both sides, learning about them is essential to using this move correctly. When fastfalled it can be used to hit opponents that were below you at the start of the uair. This works next to the stage as an edgeguard as well, just be careful not to fastfall to your doom.

Dair (down air)​

16% at the start of the attack, 12% near the end, degrade to 6% at the start of the attack, 5% near the end

7/10; can be used next to the stage to meteor smash someone towards their doom. Can also be used by running towards someone, then shorthopping and doing the aerial pretty far before you reach them, so the end of the animation (after the sword stops moving) hits the opponent. Be careful with this though, it has a lot of lag and is easily punished.

Good to mix up your edgeguarding. You can jump off the stage to dair, or fall a little bit then double jump to dair. You can ledgehop and dair or hit certain characters out of their upb animation.

This move is also useful in the water: if you use it right after jumping out of the water, you can use it at the surface. This lets you KO any other swimmers. Just dropping down with this towards the water works as well.

Fair (forward air)​

13% degrade to 6%

9/10; great way to destroy campers. Good versus any character. Has the longest reach of any aerial in the game, which is always good. You should be careful not to get shieldgrabbed as it has some lag, so make sure you abuse its range.

The move is great for mindgames as well. If you shorthop and just do nothing, opponents will usually drop their shield or even roll, a double jump fair can hit them out of both. You can also short hop in place, than fastfall on top of someone. It actually hits under you as well so.

It's just as great outside of the stage as well. You can actually pull 2 off and still get back pretty easily. Just jump off, fair, double jump, fair, move back, Aether. You can doublejump > fair so quickly it's great to hit people trying to recover above or in front of you. Learn to time this well. It's also good to just walk off the stage and use it for anyone trying to recovery from below the stage. It also works the other way around. You can use this to keep edgeguarding opponents away and recover safely because of that.

If you fullhop and use this right after leaving the ground, you will have no lag on landing. Not really that useful imo, you might hit someone in front and above you without having to risk being punished if they airdodge though.

Bair (backwards air)​

14% with the tip or 13% with the handle, degrade to 7% with the tip or 6% with the handle.

9/10; learn to aim this well. The hitbox comes out very fast, even though its small. Its a really good KO move, one of the best, if not the best, Ike has. The ending lag is a bit longer though so be careful for shieldgrabs or other ways of being punished.

Useful with RAR, however, be aware of that shieldgrab. Easiest way to avoid this is probably by running, then holding back, jumping (with Y or X) and using the c-stick to do the bair. Holding back rather than just pressing it will stop you from flying towards your opponent making it harder for them to punish. Usually best done without fastfalling, as you will have more landing lag with the fastfall. If you're fast enough to fastfall after hitting the opponent that usually is the better option though, even though you have more lag it takes a little less time overall and it hits them back far enough anyway.

Useful near platforms in two ways. First, you can hit a lot of people on platforms. It hits pretty low at that so it can sometimes go under a shield and can easily punish a roll. The second way is when you are on the platform. Dropping through it and using your bair can be very fast and catch an opponent trying to come towards you. Can also be useful outside the stage with a double jump to bair or by ledgehopping it. This will give you a KO at very low %.

Smashes.

Fsmash (forward smash)​

Uncharged 22% or 17% with just the tip of it, degrade to 10% or 9% with just the tip of it.
Fully charged 30% or 23% with just the tip of it, degrade to 14% or 11% with just the tip of it.

5/10; very slow attack, making it hard to hit people and easy to punish when you miss. Use this with a lot of care and only when you know what your opponent will do. Best use is when your opponent comes at you with an aerial. Just walk away and start that fsmash. Probably best to hold it for a second, once you see them starting an aerial, let go and once you see them doing an airdodge hold on to it until they land. After landing it will take a while before they can put their shield up so hit them out at those frames. Don't use it often though, it's just too slow.

Usmash (up smash)​

Uncharged 17%, degrade to 8%
Fully charged 23% degrade to 10%

8/10; by far Ike's best smash move. Hits all the way around him. Great for hitting people off a platform. Also pretty good to hit people out of an aerial or airdodge. Better than fsmash at this because you can hit people behind you as well. Learn to use charging it a small time to view how your opponent reacts, before letting go, unless trying to punish a roll.

You can use this move right out of your shield, and even out of your dash. Using it out of your dash is sometimes called "Hyphen smash" although it's basically a jump-canceled usmash from Melee. You can do this with c-stick up, or control stick up and quickly pressing A right after. This can also be used by running away from an opponent that is coming towards you and quickly canceling your dash into an Usmash.

You can also reverse this Hyphen smash, which is useful because the Usmash hits further behind it than in front of it. This can be done in two ways. First, with tap-jump on, just run, hit back on the control stick and then hit up and A. Secondly, with tap-jump off, run, hit diagonally back and up and than hit X and A. Funny thing is that you can have up at the same time as backwards, as it doesn't do anything and X at the same time as A, as you don't have to jump, the game just has to register the button input.

Dsmash (down smash)​

Uncharged, first hit 13% second hit, 16%, degrade to first hit 6%, second hit 7%.
Fully charged, first hit 18% second hit 22%, degrade to first hit 8% second hit 9%.

6/10; not very useful, except for punishing opponents that roll too much. Even though it has less knockback than the other smashes, it might still kill because it won't be degraded that often. It comes out the fastest of all the smashes and has the least ending lag as well. Can be used as a shield stabber. You actually hit a little bit towards your back on each hit, which makes it a good option when you are touching your opponent. You will hit them out of a sidestep with it, which they will often do, expecting a grab.


Special moves.

Eruption (neutral B)​

Uncharged 10%, degrade to 5%.
Fully charged 37%, degrade to 17% (always hits Ike 10%)

6/10; this hits very far above Ike, pretty far in front and a little to the back and under him. The best way to use this is to abuse its Super Armor Frames. The SAF come out right after you release B and are a great way to make your opponent fly, instead of getting killed yourself. Works when airborne and falling towards the stage, with your opponent coming up from it trying to hit you. You can also do it just to stall yourself in the air.

Can be used to catch opponents on a platform or opponents trying to recover above you, like with Fox/Falco their side-b onto the stage.

Counter (down B)​

Does 1.2 times the damage any attack it counters would have done, degrade to 0.5 times rounded up.
Always at least 10%, degrade to 4%.

7/10; best used only from time to time and only on predictable moves. It's been called useful for blocking projectiles, however, powershielding those is quicker and it doesn't degrade your counter. It also keeps you less predictable, so only use this when you are sure you'll hit your opponent.

This move is best used in the air. It takes a bit longer to come out than Marth's counter and has more ending lag. Can be used outside the stage to defend against opponents trying to edgeguard you, but make sure you're high enough to recover afterwards. The lag is way shorter when the strike comes out.

Strangely enough, the counter eventually becomes weaker then the move it counters. At worst, it will do only 11% against a non-degraded fsmash from another Ike, which normally would've dealt you 23%. It also doesn't matter which move you counter; the move degrades for everything.

QuickDraw (side B)​

Uncharged 9%, degrade to 4%.
Fully charged 16%, degrade to 7%.

7/10; useful move. Learn how far you go when using it uncharged, both in the air and on the ground. There is no limit to how long you charge this. This is the fastest way for Ike to get around. Make sure you don't connect though, the attack leaves you with a lot of lag. Landing after doing this in the air, leaves you with a small slide and no lag as long as your sword doesn't swing. Could be useful, however, it would be best used with a grab and you can just run and shield to get the same effect, allowing you to shieldgrab.

Be careful when trying to use this in recovery. In fact, try not to use it. You can use it high above the stage to reach a platform or the middle of the stage, but if an opponent jumps in front of you, you'll fall down without any means of recovery except grabbing the ledge.

A good way to use this move to attack is when you and your opponent were both in the air. Since you can land with it and just keep holding it, you can wait for your opponent to land and hit them when they do. It's also a great way to turn around in the air, or to follow an opponent after being hit away.

So don't use this as an attack but just as a way to get around.

Aether (up B)​

All hits connect 22%, degrade to 13%.
Last hit connects 15% degrade to 4%
Aether spike, all hits but the very last connect 9%, degrade to 5%

8/10; travels a good vertical distance. It has SAF from the moment you throw your sword up until the time that you jump after it. The SAF is mostly useful against characters who edgeguard with projectiles. You can reverse your Aether by holding diagonally behind you and up. This will allow you to throw your sword the other way. You can still grab the ledge with this, as long as you aren't holding away from it.

The AetherSpike as it's called, is a technique where you grab the edge near the end of your Aether, so that the last hit doesn't connect. The hit where you come down actually sends your opponent into the Meteor Smash animation, but the last hit cancels it out again. You can use this from the stage, or to defend against edgeguards.

Learn how to sweetspot this move. You can be hit out of it very easily, so make sure you don't fly too far above the stage during recovery, if your opponent is waiting for you on the stage.

Throws.

Grab attack (A after a grab).​

3%, degrade to 1%.

10/10; always a good thing to do. It actually helps holding your opponent longer and it adds extra damage. It also helps to "refresh" other moves because it counts as a normal attack (after they have degraded). You should use this 1 time for every 25% damage your opponent has if you want to be sure he can't get out. If your opponent isn't trying to get out of it you can just use it more often.

A good way to vary this with throws, is to just keep on using the grab attack and when they get out of your grab, do an AA combo or cancel your first jab and grab them again. If you mix this up between throwing, it can make Ike's grab game much more dangerous.

Uthrow

6%, degrade to 3%.

5/10; pretty weak. Not really any follow-ups, but you can try to catch someone coming down or something.

Dthrow

6%, degrade to 3%.

6/10; has the most knockback of any of Ike's throws. Has less lag after it than Uthrow so easier to find a follow up.

Fthrow

6%, degrade to 3%.

7/10; good throw for mindgames. Can be followed up pretty easily. Mix this in with jabs. Jab > fthrow > jab is pretty good already. Other stuff to look for are Nair, Fair, or ftilt. You can use this against a wall for an infinite. Just keep grabbing them when they bounce off the wall.

Bthrow

6%, degrade to 3%.

1/10; can only be followed up by trying exact same things as fthrow, but fthrow is nearly always the better option. Use this only to throw people off the stage when you grab with your back towards the ledge, or to throw people into walls.

8. Ike's metagame.

Approaching.

Approaching is the most important part of Ike's metagame. Ike doesn't have any projectiles, so you'll mostly be the one going after your opponent. Because he's slow it's hard to start an attack without being in danger of it being evaded and punished. So what should you do? First of all, mix your approaches. If your opponent shields or sidesteps your in for trouble. The QD is fast way to get close, however, if it hits (read the sword swings) there is quite some lag. You can use this against any character without a projectile much more safely then against those that do. In general make sure you don't attack their shield or you're gonna be in trouble.

Another way to approach your opponent is by using shorthops. Ike has three great aerials when approaching, nair, fair and bair. You should also use some empty shorthops. Just jumping and fastfalling keeps your opponent guessing what attack you will be using. The fair has greater range then the nair, but keeps you open more. You should use it from further away to avoid getting hit if they shield or sidestep it. A nair is much faster and cancels out when it hits the ground so it's usually saver even if the range is shorter. For both aerials, mix up between jumping back and forth. If you always jump towards your opponent, you will get shieldgrabbed pretty often.

Bair can be used by doing an RAR. Make sure you hold back during the RAR though, so that you keep flying in the direction you came from, instead of towards your opponent. This will safe you from a lot of unnecessary shieldgrabs. The bair comes out pretty quick and is really strong. You just have to learn to aim it, but it's not that hard really.

When approaching people that spam projectiles, mix between powershielding, shorthopping then airdodging and sometimes sidestepping. Switch between the three though, as it's likely they want you to shield that projectile, or make that sidestep, just to hit you out of it.

The shieldslide is another good way to approach. You can do a grab right out of it. If you do so make sure your shield only shows for as short as possible. This should let you slide and still get the bigger grab range from the dash. Running, then hitting shield to slide can lead to other attacks as well, as long as you just tap the shield instead of holding it. Most useful with jab combos.

Combos.

Unfortunately, Ike doesn't have any true combos. That is, there's nothing he can do that the other character can't escape with proper DI. However, he has some moves that make it possible to try to combo anyway. The best moves to do this are the jab, nair and the fair. However, you'll have to keep your opponent guessing all the time. A double-jump to bair can be a good follow up when you hit with the back of nair . A lot of things follow up jabs, like a new jab combo, a dtilt and sometimes even a nair. This works because you always have the option to grab, so you can vary pretty well. A fair would be a nice follow up for a fthrow, or a nair if they roll towards you. Hitting people off platforms so they tumble down and then ftilt works pretty good as well.

Edgeguarding.

Ike has a few ways to edgeguard. When hanging on the edge, you can drop down by pressing away from the edge (pressing down might make you fastfall and get you killed). You can then proceed to double jump and use either dair or bair. You can also jump from the stage to use an fair or an dair. As explained in the fair section, it's a great attack outside the stage overall and probably the most used. Try to follow an opponent you hit away with aether and then pursuit him with fair.

Aether is another way to edgeguard. Try reversing your Aether so you have your back towards the ledge and do an Aetherspike with it.

9. Ike's pros and cons.

Ike's amazing strength is the best thing going for him. He can KO at lower % than any other character. He has a lot of moves to KO with. However, you also must kill at lower %, because his moves are harder to hit with and they don't combo. If you allow your opponent to live for too long, it only gets easier for them to survive because your weak attacks will hit them too far to follow up with anything so they'll just have to focus on those KO moves.

Ike has great range, which is the second best thing going for him. He can out-range most characters on most of his moves and his fair is the move with the best range in the game. Abusing this range is important to Ike, as you won't get punished if you're further away.

Ike is very heavy, which means he lives longer then most other characters. However, he is also easier to combo because of this. Powershielding is pretty important for Ike. Spotdodging and counter should be used rather often as well. Not getting hit is more important than with other characters.

Ike is very slow, making him easier to get punished for mistakes. If you miss an attack, it's way worse than when an opponent misses an attack. The jab and nair are pretty much the only exceptions to this rule.

Ike has no projectile, so he has to do everything with his sword. It's not as bad as people think, though. He shouldn't have any trouble just because the opponent does have a projectile. It's fairly safe to get in close with Ike. As long as you abuse the size of his sword.

10. Counterpicking Stages.

Counterpicking is really important in competitive Smash. Most tournaments use the advanced slob picks (all should, if they don't, say something about it!). ASP works like this. First the loser of the last match (the slob) choices a stage to play on. Than the winner choices a character and finally the loser choices one. So it's important to know what stages are good against what characters, so you can either gain the advantage or even force your opponent to switch character.

This is a list of all the stages, first mentioned their status on the official SBR ruleset. Starter/Counterpick and Counterpick/Banned means the tournament organizer (TO) can decide which catogory the stage will be used for. Then follows a list of all the characters, using a color scheme to show if it's a good idea to counterpick this stage against them or not. The scheme is as following:

Great Counterpick; this stage completely ruins the specific characters techniques while giving Ike some tricks to work with.
Slight advantage; stops a certain move/action often used by a character or gives Ike an aid in a particular area like recovery.
Neutral; doesn't really affect the match-up.
Slight disadvantage; gives the opponent a slight advantage.
Bad Counterpick; this stage completely ruins Ike and his options while the opponent has no trouble whatsoever. If your opponent picks this stage you're better of switching characters and you shouldn't pick this stage yourself.

Note: white match-ups have not yet been rated as there is a lack of data. Also, Ike isn't listed for obvious reasons (hint: he would be yellow a lot). Characters are in alphabetical order from great counterpick to bad counterpick.

After this is a general opinion about the stage. Which is mostly based on Ike's options available here, not so much on what an opponent might or might not be able to do. Finally is a full description of the stage.

75m - Banned.

Battlefield - Starter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, Pokémon Trainer, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Amazing

Ike can reach the platforms with both his Usmash and Fsmash. Uair is the best though. It covers the entire platform. Abuse this properly. Spacing your bairs for opponents falling through the platforms is pretty important here. The slanted edges help your Aether - you can always recover as long as you hit them. This means you can use those fairs and uairs near the ledge much more freely. Ftilt might catch an opponent trying to get to the same level as you, so use it just a bit more often. Keeping your opponent on the platforms will win you the match. It will be able to mess up the projectile game of some of the cast as well.

It's a pretty small stage as well so use your grab plenty. It also means you can get out of chaingrabs earlier. Be careful of opponents who have a good grab game though, DK and Olimar can outrange you with their grabs. Ganon has that flame choke. DK and Ganon don't really suffer from the platforms. Olimar does a little because he's much easier to fight when he's above you, although you should be careful not to give him free pikmin on the upper platform. Marth makes pretty good use of this stage. I feel Ike does it just a little better, not much of an advantage but it's there. Lucas and Lucario don't really suffer in their projectile game on this stage. They both have a pretty annoying dair to abuse the platforms for. Lucario has a great utilt to boost.

Big Blue - Banned.

Bridge of Eldin - Banned.

Brinstar - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Castle Siege - Starter/Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Corneria - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, Pokémon Trainer, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Amazing

Basically, the best thing this stage has for you is the back fin of the ship. Aether allows you to do many tricks. You can decide whether or not to grab the ledge after an Aether. By holding down you will just fall past it. If your opponent tries come down, a bair from that ledge will work pretty well. You can also fall down, double jump and quickdraw against the ledge. Funny fact is that you'll actually be able to hit through the fin, although not all that much. It's still useful for mindgames though, as you can decide to land on the fin and go onto the bigger part of the stage. Another great way to do this is by landing on top of the fin (the slanted part) with your Aether. This will cause you to slide down and get to the main area of the stage rather quickly.

When fighting at the lower part of the stage, behind the fin, Aether remains pretty important. Try to go for the grab as well, fthrow your opponents into the wall to start Ike's infinite. Or back throw and hit them as they bounce off the walls.

Delfino Plaza - Starter/Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, Pokémon Trainer, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Good

Pretty good stage. The platforms are mostly in pretty reasonable positions. The part with the water allows you keep using your dair. Just keep shorthopping and following your opponent. The main platform is pass-through, so you can use Aether everywhere. Just be careful that there is still an age of lag after it. Another thing you can do is ledgehop and fair or uair. A bit risky but good for mindgames. You can always Aether straight through to get back. Do remember, you should either hit your opponent with Aether or stay far away from them or grab a ledge.

Also, make sure you don't panic when the stage is about to leave and it looks like you're left behind. You can usually catch up as long as you keep your calm. It might be worth it to grab opponents at this point. Mostly when you're in front in stock but on higher %. If it kills you both you'll gain from it.

There are a few times a small wall appears which means you can do the fthrow chainthrow. There is a walkoff-edge as well you might be able to work with.

Distant Planet - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Amazing

Personally, I like everything about this stage. The 3 leaves that drop your opponent right into your utilt or usmash. Rolling won't save them either and if you charge your usmash for just a sec you should be able to see if they go for the sidestep. If they do, you can charge it just a bit longer and catch them when they come out of it.

The pellets let you completely change your tactics, for great mindgames. The pass through platform allows you to throw your sword through with Aether and grab the ledge under it (completely nonpunishable).

If you land on a leaf by accident, just hold A. The jab makes it harder for your opponent to take advantage of it. If they go for a projectile you should be in time to let go and shield. Also, when the rain comes, just wait till you grab the edge. A normal ledgehop can get you back on the main platform.

Final Destination - Starter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Flat zone 2 - Banned.

Frigate Orpheon - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Terrible

Main problem with this stage is the fact that the side of the stage with the moving platform has no ledge. Neither on the stage nor the platform. This means Ike has to land on the stage itself with Aether. Aether however has a good amount of lag, is very predictable (you can see Ike hanging in the air before coming down) and the range isn't that good. Any opponent knows you'll have to aether and can pick any move to hit you (with good timing even the ones with more pre-lag).

The only good thing going for Ike on this stage is if an opponent either has tether recovery or the same problem. Tether means there is nothing they can do. Some other chars also have very predictable upB that sometimes don't even damage. Ike his strong moves are usually quite good to punish them with. So you might counterpick this against something like Olimar, but still, use with extreme caution, it can always backfire. Lucario has a upb that's easy to punish and so do Ness and Lucas. Lucas however has a real easy time gimping you here.

Green Greens - Counter/Banned.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Amazing

The platforms here are very good for Usmash and Fsmash. Your ftilt is great for the part below them. You should abuse your range to destroy the bomb blocks and hit the opponent with it. If you space it right, they won't hurt you. It's also possible to go right through them from below using Aether, which gives you some more options to recover.

The apples work in your favor as well. If they heal your opponent, you should be able to add the damage back rather easily. However, if they heal you, it will probably help you more. They can also provide you with a projectile, so you can completely shift your game. This confuses opponents greatly. The fact that it's easy to kill here is just another thing that makes it good for Ike.

Green Hill Zone - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Halberd - Starter/Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Hanenbow - Banned.

Jungle Japes - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Luigi's Mansion - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Lylat Cruise - Starter/Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Mario Bros - Banned.

Mario Circuit - Counter/Banned.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, Pokémon Trainer, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Mushroomy Kingdom - Banned.

New Pork City - Banned.

Norfair - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Onett - Counter/Banned.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Pirate Ship - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Pokemon Stadium - Starter/Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Pokemon Stadium 2 - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Port town - Counter/Banned.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Rainbow Cruise - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Rumble Falls - Banned.

Shadow Moses Island - Banned.

Skyworld - Counter/Banned.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Smashville - Starter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Good

A nice stage for Ike. The moving platform can help pretty well with your usmash, nair and fair. Its height is perfect for Ike. It can also give you a place to evade spammers. The slanted edges help Aether, much like they do at Battlefield.

Spear Pillar - Banned.

Summit - Banned.

Hyrule Temple - Banned.

Warioware - Banned.

Yoshi's Island (new/wii) - Starter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

Yoshi's Island (Melee/Pipes) - Counter.

Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Metaknight, Ness, Olimar, Peach, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Squirtle, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus

11. Match-ups.

Each different character should be fought in a different way. Match-ups are pretty important for Ike as is often the case with slower, stronger characters. Here is a list with all characters, some tips about what to do and what to look out for and an estimate about the difficulty. The difficulty is listed in the following format:

1/9 is a horrible match-up for Ike and you're better of counterpicking.
2/8 is a very bad match-up for Ike, counterpicking might be smart unless you're experienced against said character.
3/7 is a bad match-up for Ike, not impossible but certainly uphill. If your secondary is nearly as good as your Ike, or if Ike is your secondary/etc.. you might want to use another character with a better match-up.
4/6 is a slight disadvantage, the other character has some advantages over Ike, however, if you play better you still have a pretty good chance.
5/5 is an even match-up.
6/4 is a small advantage for Ike, you should be able to win with the correct stage.
7/3 is a big advantage for Ike, you should be able to win here with more ease as long as you know what to abuse and even do alright if they counterpick the stage.
8/2 is a great match-up for Ike, you should be able to win this even if your opponent is better than you.
9/1 is an amazing match-up for Ike, if Ike is your secondary, it's probably best to use him even if your main wouldn't have a bad match-up anyway.

Bowser

Bowser can be really annoying. His fire is pretty good and his ISJR doesn't help either. He can easily claw and jump around and switch to any other move like his fair. Him being heavier than Ike is annoying as well. On top, he has his up-b out of shield which is a great way to punish your mistakes. His fire works as a great edgeguard as well.

Your fair is a pretty handy tool here, it can outreach his fire if you space it well. It can outreach all of his aerials which should help. Utilt can catch him out of the air and he won't go very high, which might help you in putting some pressure on the big boozer. Jab cancels are great and so is fthrow. Dash attack can help against a lot of his defensive options. Dair and well placed fair can help against the upb, a counter from time to time (over larger distances) can do the trick as well).

Basically, just keep pressuring him and don't give him time to set up with fire and claw ISJR > whatever. I would advice a stage to easily get around his fire. Delfino Plaza would be best imo, the edges at Battlefield and Smashville might help a bit as well though.

Captain Falcon

Charizard

Diddy Kong

Donkey Kong

Fox

Falco

Falco his lasers are annoying. It's absolutely necessary that you learn to powershield them. This will keep you in your shield as short as possible. Make sure you aren't using shield too much overall, as he will try to grab you. He can chaingrab you pretty badly so make sure you sidestep when expecting that grab. His speed is annoying as well. Make sure you try to keep up with him. Be careful not to use QD outside of the stage unless you're very high above it. Also, take care when using your doublejump, if he hits you with a laser when you use it, you're in trouble.

On the stage, it's best to use a lot of empty shorthops. He will try to hit you out of your landing lag and aerial lag so don't always use either nair or fair or you're in for a whole load of dash attacks and grabs > chainthrows. Use attacks with a lot of range like fair to keep him at bay when he is further away. As a fastfaller, combos that use up moves will work slightly better. Be careful of his dair though. Be careful not to use Aether on the stage or as a follow up. It leaves you wide open for the grab.

Game & Watch

Ganondorf

Ganon can be pretty deadly to Ike, but once you know how to fight him, there really isn't that much he can do. First of all, don't let him gimp your recovery, there really is no need. Just move towards the stage and airdodge any of his aerials. Try to Aether him if he comes out, be creative with it. Be careful with QD. It's very useful to get close, but Ganon can shorthop backwards with Dair to hit you out of it, and do quite some damage. There's no real need to use QD too much anyway, an approach with fair works pretty good. Just don't get too predictable with it, he can easily abuse your landing lag. Make sure you use the range on your attacks to their full potential. This will certainly help you avoid getting punished.

Ganon usually approaches with his side b (Flame Choke), down b (Wizards Foot) or dash attack. Both can be defeated with quickdraw. Utilt works pretty good on those as well. A nair works okay, but jumping backwards with fair might be slightly better, just wait for the attack instead of doing an fair early. A ganon coming from the sky with Wizard Foot can be hit with utilt as well. Or if you're in time, fsmash. Do remember that the Foot has a much greater range than it might seem to have.

When hit with Flame Choke, be careful with getting up. He will try to follow up with either a dair or a dtilt. Dtilt isn't too bad so I'd worry about dair. If you use your "get-up attack" he will hit you right out of it. Try rolling towards the front and back, but keep fresh, if he predicts the right direction he'll still hit you. You can wait for a second if you're pretty sure he'll try all this. The second he shorthops, just hit A and you'll hit him out of it. This does risk getting hit with dtilt but again, that's not too bad. Another thing to watch out for with Flame Choke is the fact that it can grab you off the stage, or outside the stage, so be careful with edgeguards. However, if he uses it too high you can hit him out of it, ftilt is great for this. This enables you to punish his recovery instead of the other way around.

Something to abuse against Ganon is your jab. Try doing a lot of A>grab. You can then bthrow or fthrow to try and grab again, or jab him if he rolls. Fair can be used after a fthrow sometimes, to mix up your game and do some heavy damage. Jab can also cancel an uncharged dsmash. If you notice him punishing your rolls, walk more and use your jab. Make sure you mix up your grab game, uair and aether can be nice follow ups for a dthrow or uthrow at low %. This will keep him in the dark about your great jab and grab game.

Another thing to abuse is your fair. Fair can hit a Ganon below you much like the nair, but does more damage and knockback. Its range is great as well. All in all, when you know how to fight him there is few he can do. You'll be able to pressure him pretty badly and force him to defend, which gives you changes to grab. Also, I've been told on many occasions that Ganondorf is faster than Ike. This is not true, if Ike uses his QD, jab, nair and bair correctly, he can be far faster than Ganon.

Ice Climbers

Ivysaur

Ike

Jigglypuff

King Dedede

Kirby

Link

Link has a great projectile game, which can be very disturbing to Ike. His jab is also pretty good. This combined makes for a hard time approaches and getting a lot of damage racked up pretty easily. However, he does have a lot of trouble killing Ike. His killing moves are mostly his dair, ftilt and the 2nd slash of his fsmash. His dair will kill around 100%, however, it is punishable when used improperly, so abuse this when you get the change. His ftilt will kill at around 150%.

Another advantage for Ike is how easily Link can be gimped. A dair will go right through his UpB. Ftilt is a great move to get him off the stage and from a safe distance as well, so use this. If you can catch him with aether go for the aether spike, then use your dair to finish him off. All in all, make sure you kill him at much lower % than he can kill you and you should do allright.

Lucario

Lucas

Lucas is very good against Ike. His "pk-waveland" (shorthopped pk fire) is really annoying. So far Lucas is the hardest character I've fought. You can't use your shorthop in this match and quickdraw is easily punished as well. He can use PK-thunder if you're sent flying or to interrupt your aether.

I have no idea on how to best counter him or what stages to counterpick. I'll get a chance to play a reasonable Lucas pretty soon so hang on.

Luigi

Mario

Mario can easily destroy Ike's recovery. Fludd will push you too far and too low to recover. His cape will stop your quickdraw. Edgehopped aerials are annoying, mostly bair. Make sure you recover high above the stage when you want to use QD, or keep airdodging until you are right under the edge. Try to sweetspot your Aether.

Ike is easily juggled by Mario so be careful. Approaching Mario is best done by just walking towards him, powershielding all his fireballs. Ftilt and fair work pretty good against Mario. Try to lure him into attacking and use nair to defend yourself. Be careful to stay just in front of him and attack him with your range, don't go above him. Utilt, usmash and uair are all dangerous for Ike.

Pirate ship is a nice counterpick against Mario, just be careful of the tornado part. Mario Circuit works pretty good as well.

Marth

Metaknight 4-6

Metaknight is far faster than Ike, which is your mayor problem. The good side is that he is light and easy to KO. Use a lot of fast moves in this match and leave as little space as possible. Fight a bit more defensive as most Metaknight players will be going after you all the time. It's better to fight at your sword length then his. The thing has no projectiles either, and luckily Ike can destroy his B moves.

Mach tornado (b) can rack up damage rather quickly. You can hit him out of it with your fair or ftilt. Same goes for his drill rush (side b). A good MK will therefor drop these as approach options. Be careful for his grab range from a dash though. MK has an amazing dashgrab, which can be real annoying as he can combo from it pretty easily. Also, if you get trapped in Mach tornado, DI'ing down and out usually works best.

Be careful of his Dsmash. A good metaknight will wait with it until he can KO. If it degrades he'll lose his kill move. Shuttle loop is his other kill move to watch out for and he can combo into it extremely easy. Also, always hold (DI) away from the stage and upwards after being hit, this will make it slightly harder for them to combo you and you won't fly too low to recover as fast. His Fsmash can KO you as well, it's much stronger then it looks. However, it's far too slow compared to his other moves, so very easy to see coming.

The best way for a MK to defeat you is by combos and keeping in close range. Try to out space him and keep him at distance. If you manage to live up to higher %, it's actually easier to survive. It gets harder for him to combo you and you might be able to escape some stuff that's normally impossible to avoid, using either QD or counter.

One last thing is the gimping of Ike's recovery. This is so easy for MK it's not even funny. Make sure you airdodge plenty when going towards the edge of the stage. It's better to airdodge and fastfall under him during combos then to have him hit you out too far. Also, never be predictable, he can hit you out of any recovery, so make sure he doesn't know where he should go.

Ness

Olimar

Peach

Pikachu

20%; this match-up won't make you a happy little Ike. The rat has several things going for him. His Thunder is pretty powerful and can kill Ike easily. He can use it off the stage completely wrecking your recovery or Usmash you into it. He can cancel his Quick Attack (upb we call this cancel QAC) and start any number of combos from there on. When bounces off after a QAC, he has nearly no lag and can use all his aerials and even another QA. Utilt and jab are the only ways to stop him after a QAC, anything else will just get you hurt. He can combo Ike even easier because Ike is pretty heavy. Ike has a problem landing hits, cause it's small. It can even crouch to avoid attacks.

The worse has yet to come though. Pikachu can chaingrab Ike to 60% or so. Being grabbed just once can lose you half a stock. So don't spam anything. His thunderjolt is an annoying projectile, but can be powershielded pretty easily, so that helps. Be careful not to miss with nair, as he can just usmash > thunder even more then.

Basically, Ike has to stay out of grab range and try to punish anything that misses. Stay at fair range, and try to attack from about a 50 degree angle. This makes it harder for Pikachu to land his fast, small-hitbox moves. Utilt is a great help in this match. Use it wisely.

Pit

R.O.B

Samus

Sheik

Snake

Sonic

Squirtle

Toon Link

Wario

Wolf

Yoshi

Zelda

Zero Suit Samus

12. FAQ.

Most things should be answered in this guide already. However, if there are remaining questions, I'll put them here so you won't have to read the whole guide.

13. Leaving feedback.

Please respond in a civil manner. I make mistakes like any other person, so it's possible some things in this guide might not be entirely correct. If you find anything like this, you can let me know by replying here and I'll do my best to fix it. There's no need to rant or flame.

On the other hand, any critique helps. From a missed semicolon to explaining how to win a certain match-up. So I'm glad with both.

14 Credits.

A guide can't be good if it's based on one persons opinion and it can't be complete if only one person contributes to it. So here I'll list the people who have contributed. Some by making it more readable, some by correcting some information and some by adding new information. A special thanks to all of them.

First and foremost I'd like to thank Kirk. He has joined me in this project on the 6th of July and directly had an update for each section. Since then we've been working together and everything written is agreed upon by the both of us. Therefore it's now our guide and we're hoping that our corporation will make it more accurate and complete.

Correcting the spelling and grammar:

Shirum

Helping with new information on stages and match-ups:

XSilvenX
Ussi
Takeshi245
'Fro
MysticKenji
Payasofobia
Arturito_Burrito
YagamiLight
 

Empy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
659
Location
Zoetermeer, The Netherlands (it ain't much, if it
Allright I've got some general info here. First off the stuff I'm currently updating. Right now I'm working on the "10. Counterpicking Stages " section. If you've got new info on this section or disagree with something stated there, now is a good time to say so.

Also, I'll list some general info here that is certainly useful but that I haven't found time to implement or I've been unable to find a good place/way to implement it in.

[..]I made a list of projectiles that can be stopped with the jabs. Maybe you could put it in the guide if you find it helpful.

Mario: fireball.
luigi: fireball .
peach: every onion except the rotten one.
link: arrows, boomerang.
toon link: arrows, boomerang.
samus: uncharged charge shot, super missiles, normal missiles.
pit: arrows.
rob: uncharged down b.
king dedede: wadle dees and doos
olimar: all of the pikmen, and , even though they arent exactly projectile attacks, olimar's forward smash, and down smash pikmen can be stopped with the kick following the jab.
pikachu: neutral b, (both on air and on the ground)
ivysaur: razor leaf.
lucario: uncharged aura spheres
ness: pk thunder, the jab doesn't stops the pk fire, but decreases damage drastically.
lucas: pk thunder, pk fire won't hit ike if it is aimed above ike's waist.
MGaW: neutral b.
snake: jab stops the granades and send them far enough so ike is not hit.
Zamus: paralizer( both uncharged and fully charged)
charizard's and bowser's flame breath can be stopped, buth since they release a constant stream of flames, its not a good idea to jab them.
charizard's rocks released after his front-B( unlike the flame breath, the rocks go on different directions, so if a rock happens to come to your way, you can jab it without fear that another rock might hit you.)
[...]
You should, it's really important to use it to easilly kill characters with predictable recoveries (I.E toon link, link, ganondorf, space animals,etc), also, this coupled with ike's superior knockback can make for a deadly conbination.

For example: you are fighting falco( ike's WORST match-up IMO) and you have a hard time hitting him, while he is inflicting heavy damage on you. What should you do? well, you must find a way to even the match, so you must either 1) kill him early or 2) inflict heavy damage while avoiding every one of falco's attacks. We all know number 2 is impossible, so it only leaves us with option number 1.

But what is the quickest an easiest way to kill him quickly? you have only inflicted 30 percent of damage to him, so killing him in the traditional way is out. But, you know, i could use the fair's weird hitbox when the sword is just beggining to come down so i send him diagonally down, outside of the stage! i hit him, and since he is a fastfaller he is forced to use his fire bird early so that he doesn't fall to his death, know all i need to do is to edgehog and i have a one stock advantage over him!

In short, edgehogging is important, you HAVE to use it with EVERY CHARACTER, no exceptions.

If you don't know what exactly priority does, read the first part, if you already know, skip that
and go to the next part.

INTERESTING DISCOVERY: after partly testing ike's D-smash , it seems that ike's d-smash is not affected by priority, this seems like it's the case because you never see the distinct blue circle/shockwave that signals that two attacks have clashed when you use it.

It always penetrates the other character's attacks, and harms them, unless they have a disjointed hitbox.
Because of this, i will not put the d-smash into the list.
(If this is already known, or upon further testing is discovered that the attack actually can clash with other attacks, please tell me so that i delete this part)

This is how priority behaves:

When ike's attack outprioritizes one of the opponent's attack, it means ike's attack doesn't stop when it clashes against that attack, and if the attack is a projectile, ike is completely unhindered.

When one of ike's attacks is outprioritized, it's the other way round, and if the attack is a projectile, it hits ike.

When they have equal priority, that means they do the 'clank' sound, and both attacks are stopped, and if the opponent's attack is a projectile, the projectile is destroyed, leaving ike with a slight stun.

Now to the list.

Mario:

ike's neutral A attack:
ike's A attack has equal priority to mario's: A, AA, AAA, f-tilt, u-tilt, d-tilt, up-B, fludd's water, fireballs.
ike's A attack is outprioritized by mario's: f-smash, u-smash, d-smash

ike's neutral AA attack:
ike's AA attack has equal priority to mario's: A, AA, AAA, f-tilt, u-tilt, d-tilt, up-B, fludd's water, fireballs.
ike's AA attack is outprioritized by mario's: f-smash, u-smash, d-smash

ike's neutral AAA attack:
ike's AAA attack has equal priority to mario's: A, AA, AAA, f-tilt, u-tilt, d-tilt, up-B, fludd's water, fireballs, f-smash, u-smash and d-smash

ike's f-tilt:
ike's f-tilt outprioritizes mario's: A, AA, AAA, d-tilt, up-B, fludd's water, fireballs.
ike's f-tilt has equal priority to mario's: f-tilt, u-tilt, f-smash, u-smash, d-smash

ike's u-tilt:
ike's u-tilt outprioritizes mario's: A, AA, fludd's water.
ike's u-tilt has equal priority to mario's: AAA, f-tilt, u-tilt,d-tilt, f-smash, u-smash, d-smash, fireballs, up-B.

ike's d-tilt:
ike's d-tilt outprioritizes mario's: A, AA, AAA, d-tilt, up-B, fludd's water, fireballs.
ike's d-tilt has equal priority to mario's: f-tilt, u-tilt, u-smash, d-smash, f-smash.

ike's f-smash:
ike's f-smash outprioritizes mario's:A, AA, AAA, d-tilt, u-tilt, f-tilt, up-B, fludd's water, fireballs.
ike's f-smash has equal priority to mario's: f-smash, d- smash, u-smash.
Alright I think I finally know a match up well enough to contribute to this guide. Its D.K.'s match up since no one has posted about it yet mine will be the best so far :laugh:


Alright the match vs Donkey Kong is pretty easy but can turn around in a second if you aren't careful. His attacks are pretty easy to get around and you out range him for the most part. How ever he has weight and recovery over you. Not sure on power since both D.K. and Ike have plenty of it. His tilts can be a problem sometimes ( his Dtilt is an infinite against a wall so watch out in PS1) but the big thing you have to avoid is getting grabbed because he can cargo you off the stage.

once your off he has some pretty good ways of keeping you off. If you try and recover with aether ( which you should ) you might get a giant punch to the face if you go to high over the ledge so try and aim well.

another thing he can do is edge hog you pretty easily. all he has to do is hang on to the ledge and when your coming drop down and do his up b. Since it has invincibility frames trowing your sword up might not hit him if timed right and by the time you get up there he hits you out of your recovery and you end up falling again and trying the same thing over. In my mights I have been able to get out of this after a few times when the DK messed up his timing and my sword hits him. ( then you can get an aether spike if your lucky ;) )

another thing the cargo grab can do is get you stage spiked and this is actually the better option for you because you can tech it. how ever with Ike theres no need to go for the fancy stage spike since he can just as easily trow you away from the stage and if that happens theres a good chance you aren't coming back.

so If you get grabbed try and get out of it as soon as possible and as soon as you get out move away because when you break the cargo grab you don't go very far. In fact you fall right in front of him so you might get grabbed again if you don't react fast enough.

Another thing D.K. has on you is a WoP. Since Ike is pretty heavy his Bair won't knock you very far so he can juggle you while on the stage and send you to an early death with it off the stage.

Once you get him off the stage he is pretty much dead also. He can't recover from under the stage because his up B barely raises him half a foot so if you spike so him breaking out of it won't matter. His up B can cover a lot of range though probably take him from the edge of the k0 zone back to the ledge the good thing is Fair can hit him out of it and send him all the way back or maybe even further.


Well thats all I have for now hopefully I didn't end up in a complete failure and it helps people out. ( although their aren't to many D.K.'s out there unless they are fighting snakes and metaknights )
i've been brawling pikachus lately, and i've decided that they aren't as hard as i think they are.

Pikachu is a character that has to dance around the opponent. Dancing around Ike is not really that safe due to his superior range. Pikachu in fact has a weakness to disjointed hitboxes. Which is why i now think Pikachu is a 45% against Ike. Pikachu still has speed over Ike. also with Pikachu's short grab range, you can usually jab pikachu before he grabs you. If your spacing ability is superb then Pikachu will not be as difficult as he would be.
ok i've battled a lot of DKs, and good ones too and i'll say this.

DK's HATE Ike. Ike's big disjointed hit box really gives Ike and advantage here. and the fact that DK's recovery is one sided like Ike's means they can gimp each other. Jab is what DK hates about you the most. As it is so fast and they can't do anything about it. Alot of DK's try to shield grab your fair so Make sure you maximize your spacing because DK has a good grab range. And getting grabbed = death for you once you at higher %'s. He can stage spike or just cargo down throw you off the stage.

BUT, If you can land the aether spike on DK, he is NOT coming back at all, he has NO vertical recovery. I've killed many DK's this way. DK will also ledge stall with his Up B till you get too close then he'll ledge attack you, if 100% that is. Also, if he is steaming (fully charged DK punch) then he'll attack you with that off the ledge sometimes. Counter works wonders on that. Forward tilt is great in this match in my opinion. its good for finishing off DK since DK is pretty fast. But when it comes to speed, Ike's jabs are the fastest in this match up.

DK also likes to approach with his Bair which can auto cancel and be done twice in a short hop, yep its that fast. He has the fastest aerial of you two. But, fair has more range so if you exploit that you can knock him out of it. Best to shield than jab when on the ground, but watch out DK can WOP you with it and gimp you with it. You might want to peak aether (Aether when the peak is at the ledge) To not get gimped.

DK also tries to approach with Up B super armor frames. Be careful but jab cancels it out once the SA frames are over, (which when he starts spinning). I normally approach by air though so i end up jumping over it and just fair then out of it. If a DK recovers too high with his Up B, you get a free forward tilt in. yea, Dk has bad post lag when landing.

One 2nd last note, the DK punch is much more stronger than fully charged when its at 7-9 wind ups. (the number of times DK spins his arms around). It does more knock back and kills you by 50%. So be on your guard, but the flaw in this is the the punch does NOT have super armor frames. DK's who don't use SAF though will love this technique and will abuse it. But note it takes longer for them to use it making it very counterable once you get the hang of it.

My final note is that DK and Ike kill each other at the same speed generally. His forward smash kills you by 100% sweetspoted (his hands)... (ok...stage dependable) Your kill move in this match is forward tilt. That kills by 100-110%. (stage dependable) If you land forward smash, (which can hit DK from behind cause of his size, so a roll happy DK is prefect prey for this) it kills DK at 80%. Use fairs and nairs, but i think drop the nairs when DK is near the edge and your at a %'s. You don't want to get shield grabbed and stage spiked, kills you at 45%. jab is DK's worst enemy. Bair is a good finisher and follow up to some moves.

55-60% cause its all on who can kill. But Ike's disjointed hitbox and jab is an edge in getting the damage first.
The match-ups could probably use a little fleshing out.

Bowser is the first name listed in the first post of this thread that has nothing for it.

I think this is 50% for Ike. Bowser's speed is comparable to Ike's, he doesn't have priority/power, and his range is less. However, there is less lag on his moves (aside from Ike's jabs), his fire breath can make approaches difficult, and he is heavier than Ike. Ike's grab game sucks, and Bowser's is better. Their recoveries aren't particularly good either.

Bowser's fire makes approaching him difficult, in addition to the speed of his attacks being a bit better than Ike's. Ike has range/power in his favor, as well as possibilities with jab combos.

It seems that both sides have chances to make this a good fight, and I don't really see an advantage either way.

Any thoughts on this match-up?
Bowser has the advantage over Ike. His aerial attack speed > Ike's aerial attack speed. but Bowser's post lag is much worse. (taking general of all aerials)
Bowser's fsmash is disjointed as well. I have little experience against Bowser though. All i know is, it wasn't easy. Fire Breath can be a pain too. Fair and nair on your way down can get him before the fire gets you though.
i'd say 40% for us. Bowser's fair is a pain due to its speed + his fire making us having a hard time approach and have to approach since he can camp with it.

also, they WILL Up - B out of shield always. Due to invincibility frames...there's nothing you can do right away. And it can go quite a distance. its quite a nuisance. But max spaced Fairs, keep you away enough by the time he uses Up B, when it reaches you his invincibility frames are over, you can either power shield or do something to get the heck out of the way. Your jab won't stop it i think.

Edit: Bowser is a bad match up. He's too fast for Ike with his power. that AT of IS- w/e i forget whats it called it just lets bowser jump after his aerial forward B. seriously, i put this at 15% i say get a 2ndary just to fight Bowser.
I'd rather fight MK or Snake than Bowser >_> Course Lucas is a pain in the *** with his PK thunder gimping you. thats about the only two people that give me any "this is is beyond belief" feeling.


fighting Lucas:

If your off the stage, 50% chance you won't make it back....


PK thunder will, stage spike if you hang on the ledge too long OR knock you AWAY from the stage if you get hit. (Ness's PK thunder brings you BACK to the stage, making him easier) also, do not make any aerial attack mistakes, forward smash is not fun to eat. also max range fair when attack. whiffing is bad cause Lucas's grab range is extended due to his snake...Why does he even have that. but if you can manage to get past his jabs, grabs, PKT1, and gosh darn magnet that will knock you too far away to recover, you should be fine. Lucas just has the best opportunities to gimp you, i'd only say 30%, not 20%. I fight this good lucas player too.
First off, excellent guide guys. Your hard work is appreciated.

Secondly, I'd like to comment on a discovery I read on another forum and tested.(This is not my method, I didn't discovery it, and I do not remember what forum I read it on). I've searched through several guides on here and did not see this mentioned so if it is common knowledge I APOLOGIZE.

Now, this method deals with Ike attempting to aether recover against Marth. Typically a Marth would wait for the Ike to do aether then counter. This is where the change comes in. As Ike, do aether but face the other direction(opposite of the stage, in this case Final Destination). I've found that Marth still does his counter, but turns around and faces the opposite direction, thus freeing you from harm and allowing you to sweetspot the ledge to recover. Now I only tested this technique when I was recovering from almost out of aether range, but Im assuming if your too high you will get hit anyway. Also note, I had to direct myself from away to the ledge when rising to towards it during Ike's spinning animation. I apologize if it sounds confusing but it is simple really. It does require more testing to know exactly the right distance to do it at but at least it provides Ike with an almost safe aether recovery against marth if it can be stabilized.
Again I apologize if this is common knowledge, but from the videos I have seen(some rather recent with decent players) this method wasn't applied.
Ike vs Olimar:

You have a lot of moves that have high knock back. Dash attack is a blessing in this battle, but he can grab you out of it.

Ike vs Olimar, i went against a really good Olimar, and well it wasn't hopeless. I lost, but thats cause he was a better player than me. But i brought him down to 1 stock. This battle. YOU IGNORE THE PIKMIN. The pikmin is BAIT to have you do a laggy attack then he'll grab you and combo you out of it. Now the reason dash attack is good. It will do wonders when he is spamming pikmin throw. and at higher % it puts him into gimping position. Grab the ledge and make sure you predict when he'll use Up B or you might either get staged spiked and die with him or you get off the ledge too soon and he recovers anyway. Aether spike equals death at any % against Olimar if it sends him below the stage. If Olimar likes to try to spike your attempt off the ledge. AETHER of the ledge and see if he gets caught. Spike him to oblivion.

Now the moves to watch out for are:

Grab, Dmash, and Usmash. Fsmash is not that big of a deal, his main killer is Usmash.

You can predict what he'll do by the order of the pikmin. Blue pikmin has the longest grab range and strongest throws. Red pikmin can spike and are more powerful and are very resistant to your eruption.. Yellow arc in pikmin throw and are good at faking out an opponent. White flies really far and poisons you for damage. Common thing to do is throw the white then grab the person and let the white pikmin do his work. Purple pikmin are the power house pikmin. Everything they do is strong and has more knockback. But at the cost of range.

Now keeping off the pikmin is still important. But you don't make it your life mission to destroy them. Instead try to attack olimar at the same time. Or use nair, cause there is no lag in that move and its an aerial. You need to make this an air battle, cause your ground game is beaten by Olimar's grab game. Your air game completely out ranges Olimar's. Your dair also can stop his uair but be careful otherwise you're taking alot of damage if you mess up.

Being aggressive will get you no where. A max spaced fair will still get your shield grabbed. Wait for him to spam pikmin and attack him out of it. short hop nair to kill pikmin as he throws them at you. short hop nair is great when he dash grabs too.

But how to fight Olimar is dependent on what they rely on. If they use pikmin throw alot. Nair once 3 are on you then dash attack while he's plucking. Dash attack is great cause of its amazing reach to attack Olimar from that distance. Quick Dash attack also is a big thing to use since it out ranges his grab range. In fact it is fast enough to hit Olimar in his grab animation lag (...like he has any) You can bait Olimar to grab by walking to him, key term, walking, then slow down to stop as he grabs then quick dash attack. Sometimes that is. Otherwise they'll pikmin throw which you can dash attack too.

I deem this match 40%. Olimar still has all his combos on you and can damage you really easily by getting the white pikmin on you and comboing you before you get it off. I went 0% to 50% from that.
Quick Dash attack is when you initiate a dash and hit C down. It makes you do a dash attack on the spot instead of a forward smash when you hit A.

I'm doing what i can to give other Ike players hope in Ike. There are situations where i myself was lost. But confronting them i learned how to counter them. I am sharing what i experienced to help others develop their own ways of dealing with these situations. I look into everything that can happen. I try to explain every situation but thats impossible so i aim for the most common ones. There will be situations that i haven't mentioned. But dealing with that comes from experience alone.
Marth`s counter can be problematic when recovering depending o the distance Ike have been launched. But if you got space to maneuver your Aether, you`re going to be alright due to the Super Armor frames. If you position yourself in a way Marth`s counter will activate while the sword isn`t in your hand you can punish him very easily. In my opinion, Marth`s Fair is the one should be more concerned about, be sure to airdodge correctly.

As for Olimar, going aerial with Nair seems a efficient approach as it has no landing lag and you can spot dodge right after any grabbing attempt. But as I said, it “seems” efficient strategy. I never played against a good Olimar, but in the videos and tournament I witnessed the Ike vs. Olimar match, this strategy was widely exploited by Ike players.
 

Falconv1.0

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Pretty good so far. We definitely need a match up list, because Ike can complete garbage against certain characters, which kinda makes me worry about his tier placement. >.<
 

XSilvenX

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You're missing the video section... but all in all your impression of the moves were all pretty good. I think if this guide gets regularly updated then in time it will probably be the best guide we have on the forums.

Heres my 2 cents ...

STAGES

Bad

Frigate Orpheon
(Most of the time legal as a counter pick) - The stage has no right edge which of course leaves Ike open to an infinite amount of simple gimps. Put it like this...even if you make it onto the stage with Aether the opponent knows you HAVE to land..there is no edge and you're gonna get whatever move they can dish out comfortably. This could be anything. Even super slow moves are viable because as Ike lands with Aether he is a sitting duck for a good while...


Good

Battlefield - Low platforms...Ike ***** when he doesn't have to even jump to hit the person on the platform above. Basically you're in good shape if you camp under the platform and prevent the opponent from becoming level with you. Also if your opponent gets hit by a move from under the platform, depending on what direction they are facing they will tumble if they're near the edge...this sets up for a f-tilt usually if the opponent does not react fast enough. Ike can also throw his sword pretty far into the stage from below and still make it back with Aether thanks heavily to the slanted bottom edges of battlefield. It slides him right up if you ride the slant and the sword initially stays where you put it.

Smashville - The one moving platform in the top is almost a blessing when it comes through. Theres so many tricks you can pull off with it's passing. One thing is randomly using Aether and time it so that you land on the plat. Even if you miss it shouldn't matter since you're being taken away :laugh:. It's also good when someone else is on top of the platform because Ike ***** under platforms, I can't say this enough. Another thing is the slanted edges, which makes for Aether being able to go a bit further in the stage than others since Ike can ride the slants on the underside of the stage.

Delfino - On the floating platform Ike can do either a ledgehopped fair or upair which actually will hit through the stage. The fair can sometimes reach a bit towards the middle if you're dairing enough and you can still comfortably make it back on the stage. It's a bit risky though because you can get old school edgehogged if the person reacts fast enough.

NOT FINISHED (I'm in class..teacher coming) TO BE COMPLETED:mad:
 

'Fro

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One match-up I can comment on is Falco.

HORRENDOUS match-up for Ike. Falco's lasers keep Ike at bay, and his chain-grab makes is very difficult to approach. Also, if Ike is knocked off so far that he needs to use QD to recover, Falco's lasers can easily clip that. Only thing going for Ike in the match-up is Falco's light weight.
 

Takeshi245

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Ike has a disadvantage against Mario. U-tilt combos you at low percents, uair combos are annoying, he gimps your recovery with FLUDD and cape, his fireballs limit your approaches, especially his Side-B approach, and bair comes out faster than almost all of Ike's moves. I main both Ike and Mario (both good) and I gotta say that Ike has range and power over Mario, but it doesn't really help much.
 

Empy

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Pretty good so far. We definitely need a match up list, because Ike can complete garbage against certain characters, which kinda makes me worry about his tier placement. >.<
Thanks. Yeah well I'll try to include as many tips as possible for the matchups, let's hope it helps. Also, does it really matter how Ike places? I've had as much fun in Melee with Luigi as with Falcon.

You're missing the video section... but all in all your impression of the moves were all pretty good. I think if this guide gets regularly updated then in time it will probably be the best guide we have on the forums.

Heres my 2 cents ...

STAGES
[...]
NOT FINISHED (I'm in class..teacher coming) TO BE COMPLETED:mad:
Thanks for the help. Even though your not done I'll include some of these things anyway. I've used these 3 stages a lot as they are all set to random at my wii atm, so I'll be able to comment on them as well. I'm not sure about the rating system for stages yet. I might do the 1/10 thing like with the moves, or just give it a % out of 100. I'm gonna do the last for the character match-ups for sure.

One match-up I can comment on is Falco.

HORRENDOUS match-up for Ike. Falco's lasers keep Ike at bay, and his chain-grab makes is very difficult to approach. Also, if Ike is knocked off so far that he needs to use QD to recover, Falco's lasers can easily clip that. Only thing going for Ike in the match-up is Falco's light weight.
Ike is at a slight disadvantage towards Falco, however, I don't have too much problems with the laser, and if you just use uncharged QD it won't really matter if he hits you, you can just move back to the stage and Aether from under it. I'm not quite sure on this one yet, will need some more opinions.

Ike has a disadvantage against Mario. U-tilt combos you at low percents, uair combos are annoying, he gimps your recovery with FLUDD and cape, his fireballs limit your approaches, especially his Side-B approach, and bair comes out faster than almost all of Ike's moves. I main both Ike and Mario (both good) and I gotta say that Ike has range and power over Mario, but it doesn't really help much.
True this, I've had my share of problems with Mario.
 

Falconv1.0

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Ike is Falco's ***** simply due to the laser and that chain grab. Ike can get to like 40% from the chain then there is a chance of him being d air'd to his doom at the edge.

Also, laser ***** all.
 

XSilvenX

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Another thing about Delfino...at the water parts Ike can repeatedly Dair the opponent and they can't do anything but DI left and right. All you do is follow their DI and repeatedly spike them with Dair until they die, it's pretty cheap but hey chaingrabs are cheap... Also there are some parts with walls where Ike can do his f-throw infinite.


I think one of the most amazing Ike stages is Corneria. There are a few tricks that Ike can do in that stage and they're all pretty useful.

-For one, you can easily camp on the underside of the back fin with Aether. And you can choose whether or not to grab on (for mindgame purposes) by holding down or not.

-Something else people tend to miss is the usefulness of the slants on that stage. You can literally Aether at random and slide away free and clear from punishment if you land on a slant...I do it all the time and trust me it works well because your opponent will think you're gonna be stationary when you land but you will be sliding :laugh:. You can also Aether from under the fin onto the top of the Great Fox so that he slides into the stage..not really useful but hey those random mindgames :ohwell:

-Once again it's easy to get Ike's f-throw infinite under the fin because it's a very high wall and people tend to love to fight near the back anyway.

-Another thing is the amount of stuff you can do from the ledge of the fin.

-One of the most prevalent is of course fastfall b-air from the ledge. Even if they block it most likely they were caught so much by surprise that they don't react fast enough to do much about it.

-If you wanna be annoying you can fastfall down and Aether back up to safety on the ledge..forward or backward. So if your opponent is at the bottom waiting for you, you can drop down really quick and Aether (or reverse Aether depending on where your opponent is) because you'll gain SA frames really fast there isn't much the opponent can do other than block.

-Also. EXTREMELY LOW CEILING for Corneria...so Ike's utilt and upsmash will kill relatively early. This can obviously backfire though...Don't play around with Snake on the top of the fin for example....you know what will happen:p

____________________________________________________________


And Empy with the stage section you don't really have to rate it. You simply need to just list the Pros and Cons. You can't really rate the stage imo, it works differently for everbody due to the variety of playstyle amongs Ike users (lol Sike!) but seriously..just a factual overview of Pros and Cons. What works in Ike's favor and what doesn't, leave the rest up to the reader.
 

Empy

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Another thing about Delfino...at the water parts Ike can repeatedly Dair the opponent and they can't do anything but DI left and right. All you do is follow their DI and repeatedly spike them with Dair until they die, it's pretty cheap but hey chaingrabs are cheap... Also there are some parts with walls where Ike can do his f-throw infinite.
Yeah I used that on a Metaknight before, was indeed pretty useful.

I think one of the most amazing Ike stages is Corneria. There are a few tricks that Ike can do in that stage and they're all pretty useful.
[...]
I haven't used Corneria that much, will start using it more now, good stuff. In fact, I think a lot of Melee stages are pretty good for Ike. I love green greens, yoshi's island, onett and rainbow cruise. Although rainbow might be personal.

Edit: I had the luxury of having a friend come over (around midnight here) which I could test some stuff against. You were completely right, Corneria is great. :)

-Something else people tend to miss is the usefulness of the slants on that stage. You can literally Aether at random and slide away free and clear from punishment if you land on a slant...I do it all the time and trust me it works well because your opponent will think you're gonna be stationary when you land but you will be sliding :laugh:. You can also Aether from under the fin onto the top of the Great Fox so that he slides into the stage..not really useful but hey those random mindgames :ohwell:
This I've actually been abusing the cr@p out of at Yoshi's Island Melee.

And Empy with the stage section you don't really have to rate it. You simply need to just list the Pros and Cons. You can't really rate the stage imo, it works differently for everbody due to the variety of playstyle amongs Ike users (lol Sike!) but seriously..just a factual overview of Pros and Cons. What works in Ike's favor and what doesn't, leave the rest up to the reader.
Allrighty I'll stick with good and bad then. Neutral should work as well.

Edit; I think I'll use "amazing, good, neutral, bad, horrible", that should work.
 

Arturito_Burrito

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hey whats up with using a gamecube controller does it change your gameplay because i use a classic controller is that one fine because im pretty used to it.

edit: are you going to add things from versitiles thread because alot of the stuff there is really usefull.

another edit: uair actually kills at 2% higher than usmash with out any degrade that is. that was with bowser though i didnt test it on any1 else i was just practicing my Nair and decided to try it out.
 

XSilvenX

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I haven't used Corneria that much, will start using it more now, good stuff. In fact, I think a lot of Melee stages are pretty good for Ike. I love green greens, yoshi's island, onett and rainbow cruise. Although rainbow might be personal.

Edit: I had the luxury of having a friend come over (around midnight here) which I could test some stuff against. You were completely right, Corneria is great. .

Hehe I like those stages too, the only problem is that more than likely those stages are banned. You can thank the stupid chaingrabs in Brawl for the onett Ban. :ohwell:
 

Empy

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hey whats up with using a gamecube controller does it change your gameplay because i use a classic controller is that one fine because im pretty used to it.

edit: are you going to add things from versitiles thread because alot of the stuff there is really usefull.

another edit: uair actually kills at 2% higher than usmash with out any degrade that is. that was with bowser though i didnt test it on any1 else i was just practicing my Nair and decided to try it out.
Hmm.. the classic is a good option actually, I was thinking about this wiimote and nunchuck stuff which you really shouldn't do. Now classic is not as good as the gamecube, but it might work. Not sure if it's good enough for competitive play I've never seen anyone use it at high level of play.

Also, I might add stuff from Versatile's thread but so far I've only added things I've used myself. I'll update this guide pretty heavily in the beginning anyway, I'm sure I missed a thing or 2. However, experience has taught me it's better to just get it out there and adjust to criticism.

Also, how did you test this? I'll look into it later okay?

Hehe I like those stages too, the only problem is that more than likely those stages are banned. You can thank the stupid chaingrabs in Brawl for the onett Ban. :ohwell:
Actually, I'm participating pretty heavily in the stage legality discussion. Mic informed me about some of the things going on in the Smash Back Room and the way they look at it, I don't think Onett and Green Greens will be banned initially. I'm sure they are allowing a few walkoffs atm and Onett and Yoshi's Island would be the least of their concern. I've actually seen Yoshi's Island (Melee) defended by all SBR members that participated there, so yeah.

Edit; the only things that will certainly be banned and I doubt if much is added, are;

WarioWare, New Pork City, Hyrule Temple, Mario Bros. 75m, Flat Zone 2 (because of Lion, not because of walkoff), Big Blue and perhaps Spear Pillar and Summit.

Haven't heard about Mushroomy Kingdom and Rumble Falls but I don't think they will be legal.

Edit2: updated the guide a bit. Also, the stuff listed for Ike in this Character Match-Up chart is not very accurate imo. Being at a disadvantage to Bowser? Also, they underestimate how much Lucas and Ness can destroy Ike.
 

Arturito_Burrito

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umm all i did was raise his damage in training mode and i killed with both of them off the ground and killed my self after every failed attempt so the degrade would reset it self also i noticed yesterday the back part of Uair hits lower than the part in front of ike

edit: so if you can DI back to the stage what do you call it then? or with that one Nair example what was he supposed to say?
 

Empy

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edit: so if you can DI back to the stage what do you call it then? or with that one Nair example what was he supposed to say?
If you move back to the stage, just say, move back to the stage. Like, "I was hit by ftilt, moved back towards the stage and used Quickdraw to grab the ledge". I think everyone will understand.

And the nair thing, could just be told as it is, you jump back and do a nair.

umm all i did was raise his damage in training mode and i killed with both of them off the ground and killed my self after every failed attempt so the degrade would reset it self also i noticed yesterday the back part of Uair hits lower than the part in front of ike
I see, so it was bowser because you can hit him with a shorhopped uair. That's okay then, good stuff.
 

Ussi

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Ike vs Pikachu

Coming from someone who mains both ^^

Pikachu has thunder jolt, QAC (Quick Attack Cancel), Thunder (early vertical kills), and CHAIN GRABS on you. His chain grab goes up till 60% and will sometimes depending on your % and where you got grabbed throw you off the stage. You have to do you best to NOT get grabbed or the match will be turned quite easily in his favor. Nair is prone to shield grabs, don't be stupid with it. Because Ike is laggy, he is prong to the simply dash up smash --> Thunder which kills you early and more so earlier if the pikachu knows how to AIM thunder. He's even worse if he can thunder OFF stage because Pikachu has the capability to come back to the stage after thundering. Thunder wall destroys QD as a recovery. Aether can be gimped by thunder jolt and even his forward smash due to its nice range. Pikachu's speed and power kills you in this match up. Pikachu has some combos he can pull off more on Ike due to his weight. QAC is fast and really hard to keep up and if he goes thru you, you're left open enough to be combo'ed out of QAC.

BUT..I do not see it completely hopeless. Ike has this over pikachu. Pikachu is LIGHT, the 5th lightest in the game. He won't survive pasted 100% on you if you play right. fair will **** pikachu cause of its range, just don't be to obvious with it cause being shield grabbed is something you don't want to get countered with. Your jab is your best friend in this battle. Pikachu can't do anything, (who can?) When you're under him.

I'll say 15-20%. I fought anther's pikachu with my Ike so i know what Pikachu can do to Ike.



and idk if its me but Lynat cruise i sometimes miss the ledge with aether. And QD under it cause it turns the moment i let go of it. But the platforms are sweet as hell. But the gimp with the stage happens to everyone i think. Even my pikachu misses the ledge when it was right there.
 

Falconv1.0

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You know, I agree Ike kinda sucks, but he should till be able to win in tourneys.

Why am i not seeing good tourney results with Ike. (And I mean major tourneys, lol.)
 

Arturito_Burrito

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I'm just going to say a few pointless things for idk what reason umm btrow has more knock back than ftrow like a lot more at high % i k0ed kirby at 250% and ftrow lasted till like 400 i think not useful at all but just felt like saying it. also you talked about the aether spike but its not really a spike since it can be escaped out of. i don't think it ever was a spike because I've seen people escape from it who don't know how to meteor cancel. up on till you wrote this i was actually using a lot of things wrong now i kind of notice it when every1 else does especially spike which i hate that cause meteor smash is to long

i haven't read your whole guide i need to make some time for it.

edit: i just remembered that i wanted to ask if hitting a shield pikmin and 3Ds things degrade a move? and with aether does it get degraded all at once or each hit separately?

and when you talk about hitting people while grabbed if they are under 25% i shouldn't do it right? just want to get that cleared up
 

Empy

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Ike vs Pikachu
[explains]

and idk if its me but Lynat cruise i sometimes miss the ledge with aether. And QD under it cause it turns the moment i let go of it. But the platforms are sweet as hell. But the gimp with the stage happens to everyone i think. Even my pikachu misses the ledge when it was right there.
Thanks for the info, have to agree here, Pikachu is a real pain in the erm.. behind. I'll try to update with some good matchups for Ike soon, so it won't get readers all depressed and stuff. :p

Pikachu's an Ike counter. I would counterpick in order to win.
Funny enough, I use Pikachu as a counter just like Ussi. I don't know what it is that draws Ike users towards Pikachu, but I'm guessing the Fsmash. Don't you just love Pikachu's fsmash? (I'm not talking about landing it, just it being there and all (maybe I'm insane (maybe it's maybeline (I'll stop now) ) ) )

You know, I agree Ike kinda sucks, but he should till be able to win in tourneys.

Why am i not seeing good tourney results with Ike. (And I mean major tourneys, lol.)
No1 is saying Ike sucks... right? Not in my guide topic I hope. :(

Anyway, once all the pros here stop playing Melee (if they ever will) and come to tourneys, I might get some good tourney results with names that actually mean something. ;)

I'm just going to say a few pointless things for idk what reason umm btrow has more knock back than ftrow like a lot more at high % i k0ed kirby at 250% and ftrow lasted till like 400 i think not useful at all but just felt like saying it. also you talked about the aether spike but its not really a spike since it can be escaped out of. i don't think it ever was a spike because I've seen people escape from it who don't know how to meteor cancel. up on till you wrote this i was actually using a lot of things wrong now i kind of notice it when every1 else does especially spike which i hate that cause meteor smash is to long

i haven't read your whole guide i need to make some time for it.

edit: i just remembered that i wanted to ask if hitting a shield pikmin and 3Ds things degrade a move? and with aether does it get degraded all at once or each hit separately?

and when you talk about hitting people while grabbed if they are under 25% i shouldn't do it right? just want to get that cleared up
Yeah I know about the bthrow having more knockback. It's actually a bad thing, it leaves you with less stuff to follow up. That's why I rated it 1/10, there is always another throw a better option so completely useless if you ask me.

And I know the Aether Spike is not a spike at all. I'm just calling it that cuz everyone does it and it will get confusing if I don't. Also, the name sounds pretty cool.

Dunno about pikmin and D3, I don't really know. Don't care too much either to be honest. ;) And Aether counts as one move, I've been testing the degrade for the Aether Meteor hit (lol) for quite a while and the finishing move alone etc.. but the entire Aether degraded along, I tested this after the others were fully degraded so.

Might actually be something to consider, hitting your opponent with Aether during recovery, can make a Aether Spike less effective later on. A well, you'll probably have enough jabs in between anyway.
 

Arturito_Burrito

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hey in your match up guide are you going to list what combos work well on who like the jab to grab cause i find on some people i cant do it and on others it works almost every time it might be the level of the person im playing though
 

Shirum

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It's very good to have a new, updated Ike guide around. Kirk had a nice guide, but it hasn't been touched since the end of February. XD;

So yeah, just commenting to give kudos to you, Empy. =D

There are some grammatical mistakes here and there, though. Should I point them out? It's nothing major.
 

Empy

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hey in your match up guide are you going to list what combos work well on who like the jab to grab cause i find on some people i cant do it and on others it works almost every time it might be the level of the person im playing though
Yeah certainly. I'll have to make sure the advice is accurate though, so it will be a lot of work.

It's very good to have a new, updated Ike guide around. Kirk had a nice guide, but it hasn't been touched since the end of February. XD;

So yeah, just commenting to give kudos to you, Empy. =D

There are some grammatical mistakes here and there, though. Should I point them out? It's nothing major.
Thanks. :) And if you would like to correct the grammatical mistakes, please do. I'm Dutch and have learned most of my English online, it's hard enough to get reasonable spelling (I hope it is?) and grammar can become a real problem.

Anyway, mistakes are made to be corrected. Also, I think it's about time I add a credits/thanks to section.
 

Empy

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hey if there is anything i can help you out with just let me know cause this seems like its going to be the biggest ike guide of all so im sure its alot of work
Well anything helps really, from correcting small grammar mistakes to giving an entire match-up analysis. Thing is, my life was being a b*tch the last few days so I've been unable to update even half as much as I want. My mother just had surgery and my dad still has to go to work more then his boss promised so I have to take care of her a lot and I have to study as well so.
 

Ussi

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Ike vs MetaKnight

I will say this as the percent. 35% I might be pushing it for Ike but i believe that when fighting someone at your skill level you have a chance of winning. Key word SAME skill level. MK is very light and does NOT have a projectile. Fair goes thru his mach tornado, so MK won't approach with it, a smart one at least. counter is also a great lifesaver at times to stop an aggro MK. Down smash is the biggest boon against you and shutter loop follows closely. If you let yourself get combo'ed you're in for hell cause shuttle loop is a great finisher on Ike cause you might not be able to come back. Forward smash can hit thru any attack MK throws at you. MK's side B you'll either trade hits or out prioritize him.

Now i fought M2K's Metaknight soo Yea MK can gimp Ike pretty easy or M2K just pwns Ike or it's the very vast skill level difference or a variation of the 3. MK can combo Ike crazy. That puts Ike at the disadvantage. But Ike can outreach MK. But MK has a lot of moves that send Ike too far he can't recover back or is easily edgeguarded. 1 hit from Ike is equivilant to 3-5 hits from MK so that helps Ike a bit. If you're smart you'll be able to avoid the deadly combos of MK. But hey, Match ups are only statistics. Up to you to not get comboed. If you're good at avoiding them thats better for you.






Link vs Ike is wow to me... I fought this Link and well, sure i won every time, but i was going to 200% every stock cause all he could hit me with were his projectiles and jabs. Link is an annoying match up and he does have a lot to stop Ike. But Link's major downfall is that Link's kill moves are EASY to avoid. I killed Link by 135% while i'm here at 200%. Link's projectiles are a big boon against you but if you can keep a mentally that your a tank and can endure the hits, you'll be fine. Also Link's recovery is worse than yours! (in my opinion at least) Dair thru it just be careful not to fast fall. Once you spiked Link he ain't coming back even at 10%

Link is 50% just cause his projectiles are really good at keeping you away but once your in you have the advantage.


BTW Link's Kill moves to avoid: DAIR <-- will kill you at 100%... forward tilt will kill by, if not degraded, 150%... 2nd slash of forward smash is also a killer, best thing is to never spot dodge against Link cause that 2nd slash will easily hit you then. 1st slash is strong but yea it doesn't kill as soon and is still slow. Down smash is also pretty good if Link saves it to Kill.
 

Empy

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Allright I updated most of it, I've added a section with credits for each person that has contributed so far. Special thanks to Shirum for correcting all the grammar and spelling errors in it. I'll see if I can get some more stage impressions and match-ups soon.
 

Magus-Cie

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Empy said:
Ganon users think that Ganon is faster then Ike. They are stupid, show them.
Wait.....what?

Just a few little bits here:

First of all, great guide, although perhaps you could give a few more pointers about training with Ike? Very few guides(if any besides this) have a section about practicing, and I think that advice like you said about not going into training mode would great benefit people.

And some matchup advice:

Lucario: They really like to spam Baby Aura Spheres. Jab is your friend here. If they try to get you to close the range by spamming that, just jab it. If you can get him to come to you instead of vice versa, you are on your way to winning the battle.

Also, his counter is stronger than yours, so be very careful. If a Lucario doesn't use his counter at all, he will prolly try and use it to KO you eventually.


Ganondorf: Beware of using any laggy moves. His jab, ftilt, and dtilt all have KO potential at higher percentages, and at lower percentages, are great to set you up for a gimp.

Ganondorf's Dash attack is amazing. KO potential, it is fast, and it is one of his higher priority moves.



Sorry, but I don't have time to go too far in depth into either of those, and also, I think my fellow Lucario/Ganon mainers would get angry at me if I gave away all out good secrets :p
 

Empy

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Thanks Emblem Lord.

Wait.....what?
Changed to "Also, I've been told on many occasions that Ganondorf is faster than Ike. This is not true, if Ike uses his QD, jab, nair and bair correctly, he can be far faster than Ganon."

Just a few little bits here:

First of all, great guide, although perhaps you could give a few more pointers about training with Ike? Very few guides(if any besides this) have a section about practicing, and I think that advice like you said about not going into training mode would great benefit people.

And some matchup advice:

Lucario: They really like to spam Baby Aura Spheres. Jab is your friend here. If they try to get you to close the range by spamming that, just jab it. If you can get him to come to you instead of vice versa, you are on your way to winning the battle.

Also, his counter is stronger than yours, so be very careful. If a Lucario doesn't use his counter at all, he will prolly try and use it to KO you eventually.
I'll read the practice section again and see if it's still incomplete.

Now about Lucario, the better Lucario players tend to use the smaller aura spheres when you are in the air, so you won't be able to jab them. I'll add something about it when I update the Lucario section. As of now, I do feel I need a bit more info though.

Ganondorf: Beware of using any laggy moves. His jab, ftilt, and dtilt all have KO potential at higher percentages, and at lower percentages, are great to set you up for a gimp.

Ganondorf's Dash attack is amazing. KO potential, it is fast, and it is one of his higher priority moves.



Sorry, but I don't have time to go too far in depth into either of those, and also, I think my fellow Lucario/Ganon mainers would get angry at me if I gave away all out good secrets :p
Ike should just airdodge outside of the stage to prevent being gimped by Ganondorf. And I believe Ike can gimp Ganondorf rather badly as well. They both just need to DI up a lot to avoid it.

The end of Ganondorf his dash attack can be cancelled with a jab and any part of it with a utilt. So priority doesn't help him that much.
 

Magus-Cie

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Thanks Emblem Lord.

I'll read the practice section again and see if it's still incomplete.

Now about Lucario, the better Lucario players tend to use the smaller aura spheres when you are in the air, so you won't be able to jab them. I'll add something about it when I update the Lucario section. As of now, I do feel I need a bit more info though.

Ike should just airdodge outside of the stage to prevent being gimped by Ganondorf. And I believe Ike can gimp Ganondorf rather badly as well. They both just need to DI up a lot to avoid it.

The end of Ganondorf his dash attack can be cancelled with a jab and any part of it with a utilt. So priority doesn't help him that much.
Those two can gimp each other pretty easily. I think it is a bit easier for Ike with his Aether if GDorf goes for the spike near the edge...


As for the dash attack info....why am I not learning these on the Ganondorf boards? *goes off to bug Sliq*
 

Arturito_Burrito

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hey it got stickied hurray!!!

at least its one step to making the ike boards better but from the looks of it more people come in here to hurt rather than help out what rly sucks its people who don't even main ike replying to the stupid threads. lower tier characters have better discussion threads than us
 

Kirk

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I'm in cahoots with Empy right now, so hopefully this will bring some goodness to this thread...our goal is to work together to make a worthy stickied guide, not that this isn't already. Just making it EVEN better :p

I just hope he'll contact me soon...so we can get some updates happenin :D
 

:034:

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Sweet guide, Empy. We should do some games again sometime, see if my Ganon can get hammered again, heh.
 

MysticKenji

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What the Fox matchup thread says about Ike:
Ike is a slow, but not in the same way you would expect a slow character. Most of Ike’s attacks have long startup and huge lag, but he shines with the few amazing quick attacks he has. First off, his side-b is fast and great for approach. He will also use this to recover, but you can gimp it by jumping in front of it, causing Ike to fall to his death. His b-air is instant and has little lag. Ike will RAR this a lot in many cases. He may also approach with n-airs, which are slower but have huge clearing room all around his body. His d-air is a deadly spike that can actually kill quite well unlike most spikes in Brawl. All of Ike’s attacks have insane range and power. He doesn’t have a single move that can’t kill. Even his neutral a combo can kill at higher %s. This move is also unavoidable if you are hit by the first attack, which is super quick and can easily be used as punishment for hitting his shield. He has many things that make him a great slow character, but he is still a slow character at heart. If you use your speed and combos to rack up his damage he won’t know what hit him. He is heavy and has a good recovery options, but he has to choose between horizontal and vertical recovery, he can’t have both, so you can get him with that. He is quite easy to shine spike due to the nature of his recovery. Most importantly try to avoid his attacks at all costs, as every single one can kill you. 3/5
And don't forget that you can CG using the blocks on Green Greens.
 

Kirk

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I lol'd at "avoid his attacks at all cost." Good stuff there.

The most annoying thing with Fox is his Dair combos. This basically can lead into almost any other of his other attacks, most notably uptilt, upsmash, dsmash, and shine. This is VERY dangerous as if he gets a Dair off at a high enough percent, it's a free upsmash KO, given the Fox times it correctly.

For the recovery, Aether is probably your safest bet. Timing an airdodge on the way below the stage can help avoid an intercept shine spike or something similar.

Ike naturally outranges Fox, so use that to your advantage. Space well and there shouldn't be too much trouble.

Just be wary of his speed and watch out for the running Upsmashes!

That's all I got for now.
 

chaindude

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I lol'd at "avoid his attacks at all cost." Good stuff there.

The most annoying thing with Fox is his Dair combos. This basically can lead into almost any other of his other attacks, most notably uptilt, upsmash, dsmash, and shine. This is VERY dangerous as if he gets a Dair off at a high enough percent, it's a free upsmash KO, given the Fox times it correctly.

For the recovery, Aether is probably your safest bet. Timing an airdodge on the way below the stage can help avoid an intercept shine spike or something similar.

Ike naturally outranges Fox, so use that to your advantage. Space well and there shouldn't be too much trouble.

Just be wary of his speed and watch out for the running Upsmashes!

That's all I got for now.
you pretty much nailed it when i fight fox i play with lots of nairs and counter seems to really tick them off i've ticked off so many foxs like that they just start to charge into me as for edgeguarding him maybe the odd spike and f air but i like to punish right after he recovers with a ftilt just gotta be careful he doesn't get a shine in and knock you under the stage
 
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