"I write for my friends" - the growing Ike guide by Kirk and Empy. Updating again!

[XACE-K]

i've been brawling pikachus lately, and i've decided that they aren't as hard as i think they are.

Pikachu is a character that has to dance around the opponent. Dancing around Ike is not really that safe due to his superior range. Pikachu in fact has a weakness to disjointed hitboxes. Which is why i now think Pikachu is a 45% against Ike. Pikachu still has speed over Ike. also with Pikachu's short grab range, you can usually jab pikachu before he grabs you. If your spacing ability is superb then Pikachu will not be as difficult as he would be.

Agreed but the little rat still pisses me off from time to time but I get over it.

 

[Greenstreet]

nice signature. samus back air lol

 

[Ussi]

ok i've battled a lot of DKs, and good ones too and i'll say this.

DK's HATE Ike. Ike's big disjointed hit box really gives Ike and advantage here. and the fact that DK's recovery is one sided like Ike's means they can gimp each other. Jab is what DK hates about you the most. As it is so fast and they can't do anything about it. Alot of DK's try to shield grab your fair so Make sure you maximize your spacing because DK has a good grab range. And getting grabbed = death for you once you at higher %'s. He can stage spike or just cargo down throw you off the stage.

BUT, If you can land the aether spike on DK, he is NOT coming back at all, he has NO vertical recovery. I've killed many DK's this way. DK will also ledge stall with his Up B till you get too close then he'll ledge attack you, if 100% that is. Also, if he is steaming (fully charged DK punch) then he'll attack you with that off the ledge sometimes. Counter works wonders on that. Forward tilt is great in this match in my opinion. its good for finishing off DK since DK is pretty fast. But when it comes to speed, Ike's jabs are the fastest in this match up.

DK also likes to approach with his Bair which can auto cancel and be done twice in a short hop, yep its that fast. He has the fastest aerial of you two. But, fair has more range so if you exploit that you can knock him out of it. Best to shield than jab when on the ground, but watch out DK can WOP you with it and gimp you with it. You might want to peak aether (Aether when the peak is at the ledge) To not get gimped.

DK also tries to approach with Up B super armor frames. Be careful but jab cancels it out once the SA frames are over, (which when he starts spinning). I normally approach by air though so i end up jumping over it and just fair then out of it. If a DK recovers too high with his Up B, you get a free forward tilt in. yea, Dk has bad post lag when landing.

One 2nd last note, the DK punch is much more stronger than fully charged when its at 7-9 wind ups. (the number of times DK spins his arms around). It does more knock back and kills you by 50%. So be on your guard, but the flaw in this is the the punch does NOT have super armor frames. DK's who don't use SAF though will love this technique and will abuse it. But note it takes longer for them to use it making it very counterable once you get the hang of it.

My final note is that DK and Ike kill each other at the same speed generally. His forward smash kills you by 100% sweetspoted (his hands)... (ok...stage dependable) Your kill move in this match is forward tilt. That kills by 100-110%. (stage dependable) If you land forward smash, (which can hit DK from behind cause of his size, so a roll happy DK is prefect prey for this) it kills DK at 80%. Use fairs and nairs, but i think drop the nairs when DK is near the edge and your at a %'s. You don't want to get shield grabbed and stage spiked, kills you at 45%. jab is DK's worst enemy. Bair is a good finisher and follow up to some moves.

55-60% cause its all on who can kill. But Ike's disjointed hitbox and jab is an edge in getting the damage first.

 

[Marth & Ike]

The match-ups could probably use a little fleshing out.

Bowser is the first name listed in the first post of this thread that has nothing for it.

I think this is 50% for Ike. Bowser's speed is comparable to Ike's, he doesn't have priority/power, and his range is less. However, there is less lag on his moves (aside from Ike's jabs), his fire breath can make approaches difficult, and he is heavier than Ike. Ike's grab game sucks, and Bowser's is better. Their recoveries aren't particularly good either.

Bowser's fire makes approaching him difficult, in addition to the speed of his attacks being a bit better than Ike's. Ike has range/power in his favor, as well as possibilities with jab combos.

It seems that both sides have chances to make this a good fight, and I don't really see an advantage either way.

Any thoughts on this match-up?

 

[Ussi]

Bowser has the advantage over Ike. His aerial attack speed > Ike's aerial attack speed. but Bowser's post lag is much worse. (taking general of all aerials)
Bowser's fsmash is disjointed as well. I have little experience against Bowser though. All i know is, it wasn't easy. Fire Breath can be a pain too. Fair and nair on your way down can get him before the fire gets you though.
i'd say 40% for us. Bowser's fair is a pain due to its speed + his fire making us having a hard time approach and have to approach since he can camp with it.

also, they WILL Up - B out of shield always. Due to invincibility frames...there's nothing you can do right away. And it can go quite a distance. its quite a nuisance. But max spaced Fairs, keep you away enough by the time he uses Up B, when it reaches you his invincibility frames are over, you can either power shield or do something to get the heck out of the way. Your jab won't stop it i think.

Edit: Bowser is a bad match up. He's too fast for Ike with his power. that AT of IS- w/e i forget whats it called it just lets bowser jump after his aerial forward B. seriously, i put this at 15% i say get a 2ndary just to fight Bowser.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

IIRC its just bowsers ISJR.

few things I'll add that probably make bowser a harder match up is that he can WoP you with his Fair pretty badly and still make it back since his Up B covers a lot of horizontal distance.

Bowser reacts faster than you when he breaks out of the grab. so grab realize to jab doesn't work he might even get in an F. tilt before you have time to jab.

Hell its piratically only one thing now that I think of it lol either that or my brain went dead.

 

[Marth & Ike]

After some testing, and some of your guy's input, I've realized 50-50 was overly optimistic. It's more like 30-70 in Bowser's favor. Ouch. Maybe something can be found to help raise that up to a more respectable 40-60, but as of right now, Bowser is a bad match-up for Ike.

 

[yellowroy]

this really helped my ike alot. thaqnks

 

[Ussi]

I'd rather fight MK or Snake than Bowser >_> Course Lucas is a pain in the *** with his PK thunder gimping you. thats about the only two people that give me any "this is is beyond belief" feeling.


fighting Lucas:

If your off the stage, 50% chance you won't make it back....


PK thunder will, stage spike if you hang on the ledge too long OR knock you AWAY from the stage if you get hit. (Ness's PK thunder brings you BACK to the stage, making him easier) also, do not make any aerial attack mistakes, forward smash is not fun to eat. also max range fair when attack. whiffing is bad cause Lucas's grab range is extended due to his snake...Why does he even have that. but if you can manage to get past his jabs, grabs, PKT1, and gosh darn magnet that will knock you too far away to recover, you should be fine. Lucas just has the best opportunities to gimp you, i'd only say 30%, not 20%. I fight this good lucas player too.

 

[Monjula]

Uhm...I know I'm not the best Ike player on here, and anyone else probably has a bit more experience, but I just wanted to put my two cents in. Or maybe one.

But I was looking over this guide, and I couldn't help but realize that UThrow is actually a bit better than what is on here. Sure, it has horrible post-lag, but the fact that you're throwing them a little lower than Dthrow helps out. Sure, not on FD. But who plays FD as Ike, really? The smaller toss means that they're thrown up onto another platform above you, at which point you do have a good amount of time to pull various attacks.

At least, this works for me + BField and a couple other stages...Am I wrong?

 

[doom dragon 105]

i have to disagree with some things quick draw isnt that useful neither is the upair and the dash if just useless in my opinion

other than that very good

 

[Saza]

I havent really been playing brawl long (had it a while ago, havent played it much to be honest).

And this guides helped me loads with Ike. I love his power - unmatched

Something surprised me while playing against a computer on FD. I had been sent off stage by Marth, who edgegrabbed, I used a QD against the side, and it was like a quick change. Marth went flying and i was left there on the edge.

I dont know if this is usual but I dont remember you able to do that in Melee.

It was cool though :D

Thanks again!

 

[Ussi]

he hung on too long, doesn't happen to humans with half a brain.

 

[XZA143]

First off, excellent guide guys. Your hard work is appreciated.

Secondly, I'd like to comment on a discovery I read on another forum and tested.(This is not my method, I didn't discovery it, and I do not remember what forum I read it on). I've searched through several guides on here and did not see this mentioned so if it is common knowledge I APOLOGIZE.

Now, this method deals with Ike attempting to aether recover against Marth. Typically a Marth would wait for the Ike to do aether then counter. This is where the change comes in. As Ike, do aether but face the other direction(opposite of the stage, in this case Final Destination). I've found that Marth still does his counter, but turns around and faces the opposite direction, thus freeing you from harm and allowing you to sweetspot the ledge to recover. Now I only tested this technique when I was recovering from almost out of aether range, but Im assuming if your too high you will get hit anyway. Also note, I had to direct myself from away to the ledge when rising to towards it during Ike's spinning animation. I apologize if it sounds confusing but it is simple really. It does require more testing to know exactly the right distance to do it at but at least it provides Ike with an almost safe aether recovery against marth if it can be stabilized.
Again I apologize if this is common knowledge, but from the videos I have seen(some rather recent with decent players) this method wasn't applied.

 

[Ussi]

I'd actually like to thank for pointing that out, but on wifi reverse aether is harder to pull off and sometimes happens when you don't want it and kills you. Also since FD its risky and all that jazz.

 

[XZA143]

I'd actually like to thank for pointing that out, but on wifi reverse aether is harder to pull off and sometimes happens when you don't want it and kills you. Also since FD its risky and all that jazz.

This is true and I agree completely. It took a few tries and wasn't guaranteed unless I did it pretty much perfectly, but I rather have a chance then a guaranteed Marth counter to the face. I'm just trying to do my part in advancing Ike's game.

 

[Ussi]

it'll be a great note in the Marth match up.

 

[VersatileBJN]

"I'd rather fight MK or Snake than Bowser >_>"

What the frig...

 

[VersatileBJN]

I support this guide big time. I'm not sure if you guys referred to the scrub proof thread I was running for a while, but I hope so! I didn't get read through all of it, but I'll definitely be showing up here more to drop some input.

What are you guys talking about now so I don't feel like a offbeat moron?

 

[Ussi]

we are just discussing match ups.

 

[payasofobia]

Bowser cant be that bad of a match up for ike as long as you know to keep your distance.
Learn the exact reach of ike's f-air and you are already untouchable.

 

[Monjula]

Now, this method deals with Ike attempting to aether recover against Marth. Typically a Marth would wait for the Ike to do aether then counter. This is where the change comes in. As Ike, do aether but face the other direction(opposite of the stage, in this case Final Destination). I've found that Marth still does his counter, but turns around and faces the opposite direction, thus freeing you from harm and allowing you to sweetspot the ledge to recover. Now I only tested this technique when I was recovering from almost out of aether range, but Im assuming if your too high you will get hit anyway. Also note, I had to direct myself from away to the ledge when rising to towards it during Ike's spinning animation. I apologize if it sounds confusing but it is simple really. It does require more testing to know exactly the right distance to do it at but at least it provides Ike with an almost safe aether recovery against marth if it can be stabilized.
Again I apologize if this is common knowledge, but from the videos I have seen(some rather recent with decent players) this method wasn't applied.

My biggest question about this...Was this tested on a human, comp, or does it work in general?

 

[comboking]

no it works all the time

unless they jump out at you and counter

 

[XZA143]

My biggest question about this...Was this tested on a human, comp, or does it work in general?

no it works all the time

unless they jump out at you and counter

I had a player perform the Marth counter at varying distances. Too far away and the counter wouldn't activate, but once he was within the activation distance Marth, if done correctly, would turn around to counter. And as I said before it is important to move yourself from away to the ledge when rising to toward it when spinning or Marth's counter, even turned around, will hit you anyway. It is also as Comboking says, if they jump out at you and counter then I guess it becomes a contest of mindgaming to dodge at the right time? Im no Vs. Marth expert so I can not say.
Again, this needs to be tested.

 

[Rutger]

First off I would like to say nice guide.

Now then, last Sunday I went to my first tournament and my first match was Ike vs. Olimar. It was a complete failure . Never before have I been so unable to do a thing to the person I was playing against, it was such a bad loss that I did not use Ike more then one time after that. I've seen people complain about this matchup before and I can see why, I was so busy keeping the pikmin off me (failing at that as well) that I could not do much to Olimar.

What can one do in this matchup?

 

[Ussi]

Ike vs Olimar:

You have a lot of moves that have high knock back. Dash attack is a blessing in this battle, but he can grab you out of it.

Ike vs Olimar, i went against a really good Olimar, and well it wasn't hopeless. I lost, but thats cause he was a better player than me. But i brought him down to 1 stock. This battle. YOU IGNORE THE PIKMIN. The pikmin is BAIT to have you do a laggy attack then he'll grab you and combo you out of it. Now the reason dash attack is good. It will do wonders when he is spamming pikmin throw. and at higher % it puts him into gimping position. Grab the ledge and make sure you predict when he'll use Up B or you might either get staged spiked and die with him or you get off the ledge too soon and he recovers anyway. Aether spike equals death at any % against Olimar if it sends him below the stage. If Olimar likes to try to spike your attempt off the ledge. AETHER of the ledge and see if he gets caught. Spike him to oblivion.

Now the moves to watch out for are:

Grab, Dmash, and Usmash. Fsmash is not that big of a deal, his main killer is Usmash.

You can predict what he'll do by the order of the pikmin. Blue pikmin has the longest grab range and strongest throws. Red pikmin can spike and are more powerful and are very resistant to your eruption.. Yellow arc in pikmin throw and are good at faking out an opponent. White flies really far and poisons you for damage. Common thing to do is throw the white then grab the person and let the white pikmin do his work. Purple pikmin are the power house pikmin. Everything they do is strong and has more knockback. But at the cost of range.

Now keeping off the pikmin is still important. But you don't make it your life mission to destroy them. Instead try to attack olimar at the same time. Or use nair, cause there is no lag in that move and its an aerial. You need to make this an air battle, cause your ground game is beaten by Olimar's grab game. Your air game completely out ranges Olimar's. Your dair also can stop his uair but be careful otherwise you're taking alot of damage if you mess up.

Being aggressive will get you no where. A max spaced fair will still get your shield grabbed. Wait for him to spam pikmin and attack him out of it. short hop nair to kill pikmin as he throws them at you. short hop nair is great when he dash grabs too.

But how to fight Olimar is dependent on what they rely on. If they use pikmin throw alot. Nair once 3 are on you then dash attack while he's plucking. Dash attack is great cause of its amazing reach to attack Olimar from that distance. Quick Dash attack also is a big thing to use since it out ranges his grab range. In fact it is fast enough to hit Olimar in his grab animation lag (...like he has any) You can bait Olimar to grab by walking to him, key term, walking, then slow down to stop as he grabs then quick dash attack. Sometimes that is. Otherwise they'll pikmin throw which you can dash attack too.

I deem this match 40%. Olimar still has all his combos on you and can damage you really easily by getting the white pikmin on you and comboing you before you get it off. I went 0% to 50% from that.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

holy crap Ussi is on fire. I just have to tell you what an awesome job your doing with this I was only able to describe one match up well and I'm not sure how good I did it. Empy needs to add some of this stuff into the guide he hasn't updated it in almost a month.

 

[Rutger]

Looks like you put a lot of effort into that, thanks Ussi I'll be sure to use all of that next time I fight an Olimar.

Edit: when you say Quick Dash, is that Quick Draw or some thing else? I've never heard any thing that used that name.

 

[XZA143]

Thank you Ussi. Like Rutger said it is clear you put a ton of effort into that and it is greatly appreciated.

 

[Betaz]

Looks like you put a lot of effort into that, thanks Ussi I'll be sure to use all of that next time I fight an Olimar.

Edit: when you say Quick Dash, is that Quick Draw or some thing else? I've never heard any thing that used that name.

it's pretty much just buffering a dash attack

 

[Ussi]

Quick Dash attack is when you initiate a dash and hit C down. It makes you do a dash attack on the spot instead of a forward smash when you hit A.

I'm doing what i can to give other Ike players hope in Ike. There are situations where i myself was lost. But confronting them i learned how to counter them. I am sharing what i experienced to help others develop their own ways of dealing with these situations. I look into everything that can happen. I try to explain every situation but thats impossible so i aim for the most common ones. There will be situations that i haven't mentioned. But dealing with that comes from experience alone.

 

[Rutger]

Quick Dash attack is when you initiate a dash and hit C down. It makes you do a dash attack on the spot instead of a forward smash when you hit A.

I'm doing what i can to give other Ike players hope in Ike. There are situations where i myself was lost. But confronting them i learned how to counter them. I am sharing what i experienced to help others develop their own ways of dealing with these situations. I look into everything that can happen. I try to explain every situation but thats impossible so i aim for the most common ones. There will be situations that i haven't mentioned. But dealing with that comes from experience alone.

I can understand where you are coming from with wanting to keep hope in Ike and I thank you for trying to keep it there, its good to have people that know what they are talking about to help anyone out.

There are times I question using Ike especially with my ever growing list of characters I like to play, but I'm too big of a Fire Emblem fan to give up so I must really thank everyone that is trying to help whoever needs help with Ike, I know that it is helping me.

 

[Wolt]

I love the title, and will comment on the guide itself soon, although it'll still probly be pretty good.

 

[Empy]

Allrighty everyone, I will be in Germany for a week and unable to update, to my own regret. I know an update is long overdue and I'll work on it as soon as I get back. Keep the good replies coming I'll include and reply to everything next week.

 

[Guilhe]

Marth`s counter can be problematic when recovering depending o the distance Ike have been launched. But if you got space to maneuver your Aether, you`re going to be alright due to the Super Armor frames. If you position yourself in a way Marth`s counter will activate while the sword isn`t in your hand you can punish him very easily. In my opinion, Marth`s Fair is the one should be more concerned about, be sure to airdodge correctly.

As for Olimar, going aerial with Nair seems a efficient approach as it has no landing lag and you can spot dodge right after any grabbing attempt. But as I said, it “seems” efficient strategy. I never played against a good Olimar, but in the videos and tournament I witnessed the Ike vs. Olimar match, this strategy was widely exploited by Ike players.

 

[Adam_]

It would be nice to update this matchup list with other characters like dedede and marth because I see them alot in Florida.

 

[Greenstreet]

not very comprehensive as yet... well with the matchups anyway. cant wait til its done

 

[iPikmin]

really helpfull, but you may specify than Bair should be just used as a KOer and not that often as a normal atack, since the small hitbox and be pretty **** freaky supa- shield grabed if it's shielded or rolled in front of you.

 

[Max Ketchum]

This is a pretty nice guide. I think you slightly overrated dtilt, though. Also, if you ever get around to the Olimar/Ike matchup, you probably know that Olimar destroys Ike. Those **** Pikmin with their range and speed can combo Ike to hell and keep him in the air for a while. Olimar's ridiculous grab range completely destroys Ike's approach.

 

[Ussi]

Well doom, I have never felt outclassed by Olimar Doom. And if you have anything to say me, then you know where to contact me =P