Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[A2ZOMG]

I think us ganon's should do dair>usmash 99% of the time against FFers. I killed fox on DL at 50%ish starting combo but he was somewhere in the 85%ish after the usmash. Even if you don't hit with the up one cause their % is too low, the crotch box is much more powerful than any air followup.

I love Magus420's Ganon for that very reason. I dunno if you've seen that GIF of his, but yeah. D-air -> U-smash is amazing.

Btw if you land both hits of U-smash, uncharged and fresh the move does like 39%.

 

[Palpi]

I wish magus still played seriously...

 

[-ACE-]

I think us ganon's should do dair>usmash 99% of the time against FFers. I killed fox on DL at 50%ish starting combo but he was somewhere in the 85%ish after the usmash. Even if you don't hit with the up one cause their % is too low, the crotch box is much more powerful than any air followup.

Why would you do that when you can fair them offstage and set yourself up for a KO? The crotch box is the only legitimate option here (and admittedly, it's underused), and that's if they don't DI the stomp; good players almost always do.

I've gotten many KO's off of dair > usmash, but saying you should do it 99% of the time is just wrong lol.

 

[DippnDots]

yo guys, gonna take a good 5 hour nap then drive 3 hours to the first tourney ive been to in ages. I dunno if there'll be any recording but if there is i'll get some vids

 

[-ACE-]

Good luck Dots!

 

[kupo15]

You can charge the usmash and if they DI away release it and still follow up with the fair. I'm saying that following up with a usmash will KO more reliably than the fair. Usmash is extremely strong. Give fox a taste of his own medicine

Also if you manage to dair floaties at near 0% you can link to both usmash hits for a whopping 60% 2 hit combo

 

[G. Vice]

You can charge the usmash and if they DI away release it and still follow up with the fair. I'm saying that following up with a usmash will KO more reliably than the fair. Usmash is extremely strong. Give fox a taste of his own medicine

Also if you manage to dair floaties at near 0% you can link to both usmash hits for a whopping 60% 2 hit combo

Still though, 90 percent of the time, the FAir is gonna be the better choice. Unless you're playing on Yoshi's story, or a map with a super low ceiling, usually an upsmash at 85% can be DIed well enough that they can survive. But an FAir, they may live, but like ACE said, you get a free edgeguard on them. And if you're by the ledge already, it's basically edgehog for the stock. And IF you try to charge upsmash, then release to pursue with FAir, they have that extra second to shake out, and maybe jump away. Though I love the upsmash, there's a time and place for it, and the majority of the time I would follow up with the aerial here.

 

[Palpi]

Don't say nap! I have been trying to fight off naps this whole week (and failing). I have been getting 1 hour of sleep from like 5-6/6:30 am then getting home from class and napping for 5 hours...I have been an insomniac this whole week. GL though =]

 

[Bl@ckChris]

after i got a great stock once with dair -> dair -> charged c0ckblast, i've been trying to do it more. my opponents these days DI that dair though (well, my primary opponents have been sneak, everlasting yay, and pp so...ya) and that usmash just...doesn't hit. i wish it did though, cause the latter two DI my fair's so well that even at higher percents, they get back just by using their double jumps. it's quite a pain.

 

[DippnDots]

and life johns, didnt make it out to the tourney >_>

 

[KirbyKaze]

Dair --> Side B can be cool

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

dair->sideb->usmash->dair->techchase->fair

 

[KirbyKaze]

just do this stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT04quyyVkY#t=37s

 

[-ACE-]

Hahahaha I've always loved that vid

 

[silentSWAG]

do moon walks with ganon set up any thing?

 

[G. Vice]

do moon walks with ganon set up any thing?

Sexiness.

But in all seriousness, I've yet to see any practical use for it. Looks nice though.

 

[DippnDots]

style, and swag

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

I went to a tournament yesterday. I was wreckin' people in friendlies, but then the first match I choked but still won. Second match was against the guy who ended up winning the tournament. Got a big crowd and mad hype. I can't believe how much better I do with a crowd. I was just one hit away from sending him to losers bracket and blew it. Then I demonstrated my fail ability to counterpick stages. Still choking, but getting better.

I did, however, land-dash moonwalk ledgehog someone though. Felt good.

 

[-ACE-]

Good stuff Clue, love to hear about Ganons doing well in tourney. It's really the only reason I contribute to these boards.

As far as moonwalking, there are times when it can be useful to maintain space from an opponent while facing them. If you are moonwalking away from an opponent, you are retreating, but you are constantly facing them, and you can jump out at any time (and retreating fair, for example).

It's also a great way to get a quick edgehog (I don't know what's faster... dash > wd forward > pivot > wd back ff to ledge, or dash > running short hop > fastfall perfect waveland > moonwalk ff to edge).

It can also create a delay that can throw people off. If your opponent is used to you platform dashing to uair/bair to edgeguard him, if you plat dash and then moonwalk, it delays your edgeguard a second and can throw them off and they get hit. There are a lot of little things like this where moonwalking can be beneficial.

It's not crucial to being a great Ganon by any means, but it does increase Ganon's options. And yeah, it looks so ****ing good haha.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

It's not crucial to being a great Ganon by any means, but it does increase Ganon's options. And yeah, it looks so ****ing good haha.

I agree. Really, nothing flashy is crucial to being a good Ganon. One example of this is Broly's Ganon. Just in case anyone missed it, Broly is a handicapped smasher who plays with using his face. He mains Marth, but as he demonstrated over the weekend his Ganon is equally beast. He doesn't need ATs to beat people. He made second place and I think the guy that made first is his brother.

One of the coolest things I did during my tournament set with Vash's (Broly's bro?) falco was a dthrow near the edge, dash towards to coax him to tech roll towards the center and then pivoted a charged fsmash for the kill.

 

[G. Vice]

Good stuff Clue, love to hear about Ganons doing well in tourney. It's really the only reason I contribute to these boards.

As far as moonwalking, there are times when it can be useful to maintain space from an opponent while facing them. If you are moonwalking away from an opponent, you are retreating, but you are constantly facing them, and you can jump out at any time (and retreating fair, for example).

It's also a great way to get a quick edgehog (I don't know what's faster... dash > wd forward > pivot > wd back ff to ledge, or dash > running short hop > fastfall perfect waveland > moonwalk ff to edge).

It can also create a delay that can throw people off. If your opponent is used to you platform dashing to uair/bair to edgeguard him, if you plat dash and then moonwalk, it delays your edgeguard a second and can throw them off and they get hit. There are a lot of little things like this where moonwalking can be beneficial.

It's not crucial to being a great Ganon by any means, but it does increase Ganon's options. And yeah, it looks so ****ing good haha.

In theory I suppose all this is true...but to me, if I'm trying to space, throwing a moonwalk in there while facing them is contra-indicative. It is something that's distracting, and depending on the quality(timing resulting in distance covered) of the moonwalk can cause a mis-space which can then > death, as is common for a single mistake by Ganon. But yes...in theory considering that the Ganon player did this consistently to a tee, without flaw? Agreed.

Also, I think this faster ACE.

dash > wd forward > pivot > wd back ff to ledge

But that's just to me. I feel like I can do it really quick in comparison to the other.

 

[-ACE-]

Zane, that is probably a tad faster once I think about it, although I can do either one very quickly. With the moonwalking method, the only thing to slow you down is the moonwalk (and with it, less room for error), whereas with the wd method, it is faster in theory, but you had better not waste any time with your wd's/pivots.

Obviously the benefits of moonwalking I mentioned are very situational, but what benefits of moonwalking aren't? Against Fox/Falcon (for example), where you need to keep some space before any approaching begins, I can definitely see increasing your space while facing your opponent as beneficial. The fact that you can jump out at any time pretty much cancels out most negative consequences of using it, in most situations.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hey guys.

is edgecancelling an uair to edgegrab useful as an edgeguard?

cause sometimes i do it by accident and it *****. i'm trying to decide whether doing it on purpose is something worth spending effort on.

it usually happens for me against falcon. falcons with really good sweetspotting are likely to somehow get to the edge even when i try the uair. sometimes after i miss the uair, I edgecancel into an edgehog. it's a great way to get the stock, and even surprises me sometimes.

i've also started to contemplate using this to edgeguard spacies. edgecanceled uair to bair. idk if they fall too fast for that or not though.

just ideas...

 

[-ACE-]

It's not incredibly useful imo, just convenient as it's sort of like an auto-edgehog. At low-med% falcon is sometimes able to land on the stage with his up-b after getting uair spiked, in which case, you better be ready to ledgehop uair spike him. Imo you might as well stay on the stage, which is safer. You'll always have time to grab the ledge after you uair spike him, as long as he's low enough so that all you need to do is edgehog for the ko.

As far as against spacies, that can work in some situations but it's super risky. If you miss you are most likely dead. I'd rather stay on stage while edgeguarding spacies, unless you can punch our stomp them out of the beginning of their up-b, or cover more than one option (regarding which directions they might choose with up-b) with a fair.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

is edgecancelling an uair to edgegrab useful as an edgeguard?
.

I think edgecanceling Uair by itself is really useful. There's a Ganon main around here that does it consistently and it's very good. It eliminates the need to re-edgeguard. What you can do is tipman Uair and edgecancel right into a Dair or even another Uair. Depending on the percentage you may be able to just grab the ledge. The ledgegrab will work especially well on Marth since it will be unlikely that he can land on the stage after the tipman. But, if you're anything like me, it's way too hard to tipman sweetspotting Marths....

 

[-ACE-]

Both reverse uair and dair (back facing the edge is better) can hit sweetspotting marths. And light shield edgehog is great unless they are sweetspotting perfectly.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

And light shield edgehog is great unless they are sweetspotting perfectly.

I've never had a Marth survive the light shield edgehog unless they are aiming to land on the stage, which is also easy to punish.

 

[-ACE-]

I can't remember if I had either, it probably works every time but I wasn't 100% sure.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

pp did it to me.

he just...sweetspotted. like a boss.

i've also seen marths up-b and drift over. usually now i'm able to react with a bair to that option though. especially if my lightshield is big enough to where they'd have to be really far over to avoid it.

 

[-ACE-]

PP is def. a boss. Lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i've done it once. The thing is, if the light shielder angles it down and off the stage, marth can't sweetspot and not hit the shield. It may be character specific though, cause some characters can move their shield more than others.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i think its hilarious that roy can't do the marth killer.

ganon's pretty good in this game.

 

[-ACE-]

Roy's shield ASDI works the same way as everyone else's... I haven't tested it but I'd be really surprised if he couldn't do it. Is there another reason why it doesn't work?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

idk. just every time i've done it with roy, marth just gets to the edge first. maybe roy just plain doesn't fast fall enough. idk. it made me lol so hard when it didn't work though.

 

[spider_sense]

Alright guys, I've gotten to the point of utter frustration with Marth. I don't know WHY I can't beat this character! No matter who it is I play. We have a Marth player here but he makes alot of terrible decisions during play and I think it's gotten me worse at the matchup. I played Dark Sonic; I didn't know how to approach, what to space, when capitalize a mistake, how to tolerate his fair, fsmash and dash dancing bait to grabs and more importantly matchups. Needless to say, I took a match off him, but got utterly destroyed my 3rd stock and I feel like he's not beyond my level, he just has a way better understanding of the matchup than I do...I've talked to Linguini about it and he says I just have to bair alot more and choose how I use my jumps. But my problems with Marth stem from not knowing the matchup at all. So guys, any advice start to finish vs Marth? Linguini and Kage your advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Renth]

f air him and b air him. once you grab him it's GGGGGGGGGGG

 

[spider_sense]

f air him and b air him. once you grab him it's GGGGGGGGGGG

Yeah...I tried that and still got f**ed up hard! Real talk tho, I need some serious advice.

 

[Palpi]

Wow, I think marth is pretty easy...I don't know what to say for advice though... =]

 

[TobiasTruth]

If u block a fsmash, wavedash in and grab him. Chain grab him early percents if they di to the side. If they don't di nair worked well for me. Try to get most of the fighting on the center part of the stage. Because getting grabbed near the ledge can be death! Even though it's pretty obvious, if grabbed, try to tech roll away from the ledge. It's better than getting forward smashed or regrabbed and edge guarded early.
Oh n take him to dreamland. besides the fact that marth can up b out sheild to the top platform, if the marth trys to edgeguard u wit fsmash it'll take forever to kill u. Haha. Yeah. Not super discriptive but hope this helps.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Crouch cancel. That is the most important thing to do against Marth, as I have realized recently. Also, Uair out of shield if he is approaching with Fairs.

I have a huge problem when Marths get grab happy. Just have to space more carefully I guess.