• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Think of Ganon like Zangief, do everything you can for a knockdown and then you mix it up or try to guess.. sure it's like this for every character but you absolutely need to knockdown the guy for total control. You have to do everything to stay in the middle stage. Ugh.. can't wait to upload the set from 2 days ago.. I did some awesome things. =P

In match I got some backjump downair when Fox was coming with a FH nair or even SH sometimes it worked.. the backjump downair hitbox for some reason Fox does not hit so he gets Dair instead.. and obviously Dair to grab is sick or another aerial depending on %.
 
G. Vice

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
I'm a Ganon main, and I do NOT smoke marijuana :)

lol, Sheik huh? I'm super weak to that matchup as well. I know it comes to spacing, and you're gonna hear alot of people say CG like crazy. But besides that, I'm not sure what all to do. Alright Kage/Linguini, what's a Ganon to do versus a good sheik?
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
I've had the opportunity to play ether's and the doug's sheik a good bit lately (both good vs ganon, especially ether's), and yes the chaingrab is big, but the biggest thing to me is simply not making fundamental mistakes that leave yourself open. I've trained myself to buffer a roll whenever I get jabbed so I don't get grabbed. It takes some practice to get fast enough to input the buffer during the hitstun if the jab but it helps a lot. Jab+ grab can **** ganon if he's not careful. Make the most of every grab and don't get predictable with rolls. Be careful when approaching with bair; many times its better just to waveland away and keep your space. Abuse her recovery to the fullest extent when she is offstage (refer to my ganon edgeguarding thread for more info). When getting chaingrabbed, DI partial away/behind so its harder for get to regrab. When sheik finishes the cg she will be looking for a fair if you DI away and a usmash if you DI behind/partially behind/not at all, so depending on where you're at on stage, chose the lesser of the two evils and DI the finishing hit correctly as well; you will survive more often than you think.
 
Brookman

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
I maybe be wrong, since I odn't play ganon all that often but. . . if you can react to a jab can't you just throw out your own jab here?

Rolling would likely be easy to react to in return (by the sheik player) and with the span of her boost grab/dash attack, even more likely to punish. (unles ganon's roll is much large than I suspect)
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Its basically for when sheiks get into the habit of jabbing and immediately jc or boost grabbing afterward (they whiff the grab and they can't punish your roll). Jab doesn't work that well in my experience but you could probably cc the jab and jab back if you're really fast, I dunno. And of course you can't get predictable with the roll but its great when used appropriately.
 
B

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
sup guys? so since i don't have a cube, but i think about this game a TON, i'm still formulating ideas, and will ask your opinion on them. since i live in NC (falco country) a lot of my ideas are based on this matchup.

the one today is about double lasers off the edge. although there are multiple ways of dealing with them, including dtilt, crouch the first one -> jab before the second one, or simply jump on a platform and avoid them both, i wonder if theres another option...

most smart falcos will try to double laser into shine to start a combo. if you simply shield the lasers, they'll double laser into shield pressure, which doesn't end well for us. now as higher level falco's go, there are many different heights to shoot those two lasers...which makes things a little complicated.

to get to the point, i want you guys's thoughts on the idea of using shield DI on lasers. do any of you think the shield DI away would change anything enough where if they try to double laser into shine, their spacing would be off to the point where we can get a grab easier?

also, is ccing a laser possible? cause if so, then i think there is a spacing right around where they usually land from the double laser where we may be able to get a jab off if we take that second laser. i can usually get a jab/grab off of my usual opponent (sneak), but when i tried that same spacing against pp, his shines usually came out first. i think he uses a different laser timing to land with less lag, though i'm not sure...falco's complicated...

tl;dr: shield di on double lasers off the edge. useful?
 
B

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
so i know the 5 other threads were made this day, and things kinda got overlooked, but i'd really like someone to give me their thoughts on the above post.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
You might be on to something, chris. I've considered this before but never gave it much thought. I would think you would want to master shield asdi in terms of dealing with falco's approaches (and grabbing him) before you could implement this into your game effectively, since he would probably be able to get the shine off (on your shield) anyway. I could be wrong though. I still like jab and dtilt depending on the situation.
 
Bizzarro Flame

Bizzarro Flame

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
1,816
Location
San Francisco
warlock-don-mia24 said:
wat r some good mindgames with ganon
Click to expand...
moon-walk to sticky-walk
walking toward your opponent while they put their shield up
standing there doing nothing while ganon does his standing animation where he stretches out his arms.
taunting while peach does her downsmash because it won't hit if she tries to space it.
a crouching ganon is really scary

ganon himself is a mindgame. i mean wouldn't you cower in fear if you had to go up against a man-killing demon who has a habit of eating people while they are sleeping in the king's hall.
 
B

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
i got some good vids that should be on the way. using platforms properly changes ganon's game 1000%. ever since i started using them more, i feel like my game has completely gone to a new level. you don't get accused of camping, yet you're always waiting for the opponent can come to you so you can hit them with a real quick role reversal. it's really easy to find openings when you make your opponent deal with platforms.

playing smart and safe and always choosing the option with the least amount of risk really helps ganon.

also i played against NC's young link with fox. like all i did was bair. i 4 stocked him that match. **** was hilarious. similar things work with ganon too, but his isn't as safe. it's so fun.

edit: i'm also putting that cg to work. it *****. and i'm starting to learn why shield DI isn't a huge topic among the higher level ganon's. if you're doing it right, your shield won't be hit with a frontal assault. you avoid getting into your shield, so shield tricks become less of a worry, and finding ways to stay out of shield (retreating bair, using platforms, knowing when to roll, etc) become the primary concern.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Who is nc's y.link? Plur? I played rhan the other night. His ylink is kinda spammy but I was able to get inside and do work with the cg.

Also, there is some truth to that last part but sometimes you can't avoid shielding with ganon (esp vs spacies), so it's good to know the tricks.
 
B

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
nah smith lol. he's learning falco, but as of right now, his ylink is pretty beast. of course, i beat it with bair, but overall, it's actually pretty good.
 
B

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
i agree, fox makes for an amazing teammate. especially if they're comfortable handling themselves in a somewhat 2v1 situation. you and lucky play teams a lot like me and sneak do, from what i can tell. great work.
 
Palpi

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,714
Location
Yardley, Pennsylvania
I play ganon...but Fox and marth are my mains...and I CANT play fox in teams but he is obviously my best character in singles. It is so strange.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
ya Fox is pretty good in teams but I think either Jiggs or Peach might be better overall. But the character choice with Ganon might be more related to your playstyle.. I like Jiggs/Peach better since I mean you put the guy off stage and its pretty much a freeguard for your friend lol.
 
Bizzarro Flame

Bizzarro Flame

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
1,816
Location
San Francisco
i thought ganon and peach are terrible in teams.

care to explain why they might be better overall? or just link me to a tournament match with ganon + peach
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Bizzarro Flame said:
i thought ganon and peach are terrible in teams.

care to explain why they might be better overall? or just link me to a tournament match with ganon + peach
Click to expand...
Well I remember everytime I teamed with a Peach whether it was Vwins or Hitsugaya.. I either won or did really awesome even in US. And also Linguini and Xelic did awesome too. Just imagine the opponents that have to fight the space in between Ganon and Peach.. they have to play extra gay or else they will get dressed into the punch which does much dmg. The only real bad weakness that is apparent is when the 2 opponents double team Ganon while being far away from Peach and then Peach that has to run to the opponents.. that is pretty bad but other than that it's a really solid team.

Edit: I'm not sure how else I could explain. It's mainly the combos that hurt the most and easy setups.
 
Bizzarro Flame

Bizzarro Flame

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
1,816
Location
San Francisco
yeah my team got ***** a lot when the other team double teamed on me while keeping my peach teammate away before.

i guess if they stick to that strategy, then it could be a nightmare
 
L

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
Bl@ckChris said:
sup guys? so since i don't have a cube, but i think about this game a TON, i'm still formulating ideas, and will ask your opinion on them. since i live in NC (falco country) a lot of my ideas are based on this matchup.

the one today is about double lasers off the edge. although there are multiple ways of dealing with them, including dtilt, crouch the first one -> jab before the second one, or simply jump on a platform and avoid them both, i wonder if theres another option...

most smart falcos will try to double laser into shine to start a combo. if you simply shield the lasers, they'll double laser into shield pressure, which doesn't end well for us. now as higher level falco's go, there are many different heights to shoot those two lasers...which makes things a little complicated.

to get to the point, i want you guys's thoughts on the idea of using shield DI on lasers. do any of you think the shield DI away would change anything enough where if they try to double laser into shine, their spacing would be off to the point where we can get a grab easier?

also, is ccing a laser possible? cause if so, then i think there is a spacing right around where they usually land from the double laser where we may be able to get a jab off if we take that second laser. i can usually get a jab/grab off of my usual opponent (sneak), but when i tried that same spacing against pp, his shines usually came out first. i think he uses a different laser timing to land with less lag, though i'm not sure...falco's complicated...

tl;dr: shield di on double lasers off the edge. useful?
Click to expand...
Dunno abut shield DI but you should be alternating through a couple of options for the lasers off the ledge.

Jab
Crouch or CC jab
Shield grab
Jump over lasers and aerial/ chill on a platform and drop through with an aerial which can clash with lasers

Good falco's use tricky laser timings off the ledge, this I know very well since lambchops is the best at it from my experience. It's just a matter of adapting and forcing them to do something else. For example; you pressure them to stop lasering off the edge and they try to dair you because they think you are going to jab again. Instead you space a bair and falco is dead. It's a tricky game but it usually takes a match or two to figure out a falco's off-the-edge habits/patterns.



Anyways, personally my favorite team is ganon/fox. If the fox knows how to stay away from you at the right times he can provide the almost perfect counterattacks for ganon when he gets hit due to his speed. I usually am knocking people off the stage left and right in teams so when I team with colbol he usually just finishes the job with shinespikes/other gay edgeguards.

Peach used to be my favorite, but I still think it's a very solid team. Kage is right in that you have to keep the team together because when double teamed peach/ganon get *****, and they are both slow characters. This means you can't help your teammate out quickly enough in many situations.
 
kupo15

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
About the rock crock. Its cool but I think that using a uair is much more effective. Because you get your dj back you can pull off two uairs or a uair then fair. Either that or just use the dB spike
 
kupo15

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
I just saw Bizzaro do the rock crock in that teams match he posted and the falcon made it back on the stage. I think most of us forget that we have an extra jump and I think that if he hit falcon twice then he wouldn't have made it back
 
DippnDots

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
theorycraft here but, if they're at a low enough percent to survive the fair, then they could just DI the uair to escape a second hit and be even closer to the stage.

In singles at least, the fair is a 99.99999% kill though because even if they can make it back, you should have enough time to up-b -> grab edge -> ledge hop reverse uair tipman, maybe even enough time to just get back on stage and normally tipman.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom