Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bl@ckChris]

if the marth really understands dash dancing, it can be a little tough.

you're gonna wanna develop a strong wavelanding game, and cc-dtilt is also good.

 

[godslafco]

if the marth really understands dash dancing, it can be a little tough.

you're gonna wanna develop a strong wavelanding game, and cc-dtilt is also good.

That joint is crucial, especially if you like to be around the tipper range forcing the marth to rushing. Get under the marth is also a good idea.

 

[Divinokage]

Hmm i didn't have time to finish the best of 101 tonight vs another opponent but so far it went 33-1 lol. If the recording didnt fail, get ready to get mindblown.

 

[Renth]

to beat marth:

keep him above you, if you are above him you lose.

if he swings his sword twice from a short hop shield the first one then u air out of shield and laugh at him for being so silly. Grabs help a lot. Grab him. Grab him and teach him who's boss.

 

[Divinokage]

Alright so here it is!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hmeLhcrVGk

Have fun =P

 

[Jonas]

How to play Melee:

Keep people above you lol

Maybe a crude generalization, but it has at least some truth to it. "Keep Marth above you" is just such a generic advice (but it's still a great idea)

Alright so here it is!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hmeLhcrVGk

Have fun =P

Holy **** it's Kage the Movie

 

[-ACE-]

Haha nice kage. I can't believe your scrub *** lost a match! haha

I'll watch those in a bit, it's loading now

 

[spider_sense]

Can't wait to MM Kage. Should be easy money. =P

 

[-ACE-]

I got that ditto down son. Rock paper DYNAMITE. Bring it.

 

[Ulti]

I have some random and specific questions for the sheik MU.

1. What's Ganon's ideal spacing/how close should Ganon be to sheik, ideally in this matchup (ex. maximum ftilt range, jab range, fair range, etc)? Aside from "below" or "on the ledge while she's recovering." I played the matchup a bit recently and it seems sheik has a good option to hit/annoy/force me to approach regardless of where I am. Is this a case of "well, that's the Ganon/Sheik matchup" or is there a way I can position myself to be relatively safe?

2. Nooby question. What do I do about ground needles? Right outside my immediate attack/lunge range they're hard to punish. I mean, I could go on a platform, but that seems it would lead to a whole new set of problems. I guess this is related to my previous question sorta -- do I just need to stay close-ish to sheik to negate this as an option?

 

[-ACE-]

1. Just outside Ganon ftilt range, where you can sh aerial to punish pretty much anything but also retreat from most approaches if you have good reaction time. Although you don't want to maintain a specific distance from an opponent at all times as you want to keep her guessing.

2. I seldom get the chance to punish these. At long range I just shield, or jump on a platform. At close range sheik risks you just sh fair'ing her when she does a needle, or something of the like. Needles at close range shouldn't happen very often imo, but if you do get it, buffer a roll away if you think she's coming in for an immediate grab or something.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

theres multiple answers to question 1. You want to either be just outside of sheik's range (meaning you are being defensive, baiting an attack) or have sheik inside your range and threaten her into making an action (offensive). You don't want to be inside her range but outside of your own range (stupid, getting *****, ect). i suppose this really goes for all matchups, though. Most matchups have crossovers where you can threaten them but they can't threaten you, and vice versa. Also its good to space to threaten their threat.

 

[Divinokage]

Haha nice kage. I can't believe your scrub *** lost a match! haha

I'll watch those in a bit, it's loading now

Haha ya I suck, it's actually pretty hard to play beast mode for 50 matches.. Focus gets lower and lower lol.

 

[Renth]

How to play Melee:

Keep people above you lol

Maybe a crude generalization, but it has at least some truth to it. "Keep Marth above you" is just such a generic advice (but it's still a great idea)

generic advice is what I do best (:

I got that ditto down son. Rock paper DYNAMITE. Bring it.

Ahhh.. Hahaha.

 

[DippnDots]

epic video kage, one of my favorite follow ups is running off a platform into a fair on spacies

 

[Divinokage]

Off-stage? or On-stage?

 

[-ACE-]

I'm 40 mins in right now. Kage you love that dtilt at the edge. Do you ever low-angled ftilt?

 

[Divinokage]

I'm 40 mins in right now. Kage you love that dtilt at the edge. Do you ever low-angled ftilt?

Ya sometimes, but I like to downtilt into fair, so strong lol. I'm just trying to show more funny options.

42:35 to 42:41.. gg. haha.

 

[-ACE-]

I know most people never learn, but they can di that dtilt and get a free new shot at recovery, low ftilt reaches slightly lower and is guaranteed death.

LOL yeah that was good ****

 

[Divinokage]

Well I did it so many times to him so hopefully he can learn to recover better as well, I give him a lot of stuff to study as well as I learned what I can do without so much pressure from better players. And ya you are right if they DI away Dtilt, i can't reach with anything after so I would have to wait at the edge.. of course Ftilt or reverse upair is way better in general.

Edit: You guys said I should do more reverse upair on spacies recovery, and it works very well. =)

Edit2: I like the purple name now, it glows. It makes me feel I have more Ganon power.

 

[Juushichi]

Congrats Kage. Watching those matches was like watching a combo video. So many good reads. It seemed like you were learning other options for some edgeguards while you played.

Amazing work as usual.

 

[Superspright]

Just did something weird. Never seen it before, or heard of it. But um, I basically wizkicked the edge of the stage on final destination, and instead of going down past the edge he bounced back (with a jump I believe) like he hit a wall. Spiked my friend too. Never seen this before. Is this a glitch? Or can it be done consistently (or even with an AR, I dunno). I don't wizkick a lot, so maybe it's common. But, it's not my choice move.

I tried to replicate it, but I couldn't.

Also, why do I rarely see sh-uair/bair jump waveland [insert attack of choice or not] on bf? Is it bad to do for a follow up, or for spacing?

 

[-ACE-]

Not sure about that wizards foot, but bair/uair to platform dash is useful and underused. It works on all neutral stage low platforms, even DL64. I use this a lot.

 

[XAQ]

hEY, LoLSER, THIS THREAD SUXS

 

[G. Vice]

The Sheik and Fox match-up is tough. Especially once they start getting the hang of Ganon's spacing and capitalizing on lag times between jabs. I can understand them getting by Ftilts, but jabs?

The only hope of winning vs them is to be smarter than them. But that's hard to do when you get shined once and die, or chaingrabbed/gimped by sheik and die at 68% and get mentally defeated. Anyone got tips on how to not get rattled by "6ay" things?

 

[Divinokage]

Let's see here, for me most of the time, I laugh when I lose. But that's generally because I trained myself to enjoy all the little things and I'm also pretty happy most of the time. =P You do see when a pro makes a mistake, they nod instead of going nuts because of some BS that happened?

There is no BS, if you acknowledged why you made a mistake in the first place then you get to keep your composure at all times. If you lose your cool, you will die.. that's all there is to it. You have to continue to analyse your opponent when you play, you cannot worry about yourself. Just play the game and find holes in the opponent's play... whatever else that happens well you have to ignore it. Use wtv strategy at your disposal to win. Even if it means trashtalking your opponent in a real set if you can.. I mean there isn't any rule against this? Only the people that watch can't insult the players that play. =P

So ya if you get punished then take it, and try again... try to escape it with what you can and then continue fighting at 100%.

Edit: If you face someone equal or stronger than you.. then still keep playing, even someone stronger has holes you can exploit. If you think like OMG I'm facing m2k I'm going to get crushed then already you're not going to do very well because of the increased pressure. Just play with the decisions people make.

 

[G. Vice]

Let's see here, for me most of the time, I laugh when I lose. But that's generally because I trained myself to enjoy all the little things and I'm also pretty happy most of the time. =P You do see when a pro makes a mistake, they nod instead of going nuts because of some BS that happened?

There is no BS, if you acknowledged why you made a mistake in the first place then you get to keep your composure at all times. If you lose your cool, you will die.. that's all there is to it. You have to continue to analyse your opponent when you play, you cannot worry about yourself. Just play the game and find holes in the opponent's play... whatever else that happens well you have to ignore it. Use wtv strategy at your disposal to win. Even if it means trashtalking your opponent in a real set if you can.. I mean there isn't any rule against this? Only the people that watch can't insult the players that play. =P

So ya if you get punished then take it, and try again... try to escape it with what you can and then continue fighting at 100%.

Edit: If you face someone equal or stronger than you.. then still keep playing, even someone stronger has holes you can exploit. If you think like OMG I'm facing m2k I'm going to get crushed then already you're not going to do very well because of the increased pressure. Just play with the decisions people make.

Playing people better than me is what I need. When I played Darkrain, I went into star-shock mode and got beat badly. But when I played this random peach that I didn't know, I ended up doing well and winning the majority, then found out it was DoH. I get nervous when I play people I know are really good.

But thanks for the tips, I'll try to keep cool in every circumstance.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya basically.. **** the player.. he plays a character with a set amount of moves just like you do.. it's just the player will use those tools differently so you have to adjust to that... That's it.. he's just a doll waiting for you to punch, that's not scary anymore is it? =P

Generally I think of people that they are just a pebble in my way.

 

[Hercules]

that's some testicular fortitude there.

though i concede, its well earned.

 

[Superspright]

i like the way this one guy put it: just pretend they are different AIs

Computers aren't scary.

 

[Jonas]

Let's see here, for me most of the time, I laugh when I lose. But that's generally because I trained myself to enjoy all the little things and I'm also pretty happy most of the time. =P You do see when a pro makes a mistake, they nod instead of going nuts because of some BS that happened?

There is no BS, if you acknowledged why you made a mistake in the first place then you get to keep your composure at all times. If you lose your cool, you will die.. that's all there is to it. You have to continue to analyse your opponent when you play, you cannot worry about yourself. Just play the game and find holes in the opponent's play... whatever else that happens well you have to ignore it. Use wtv strategy at your disposal to win.

Just wanted to say beautiful post and QFT. I really think keeping cool at all times is one of the hardest thing in Melee (or any game lol) and something that I personally have to work a lot with, but keeping your nerves under control really pays off.

The nodding thing is so true, I should try that more

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

One thing I noticed Kage was doing in those matches against pikalex, was a plain shield drop during shield pressure. I'm gonna have to try that. I've NEVER done a shield drop on purpose.

 

[G. Vice]

One thing I noticed Kage was doing in those matches against pikalex, was a plain shield drop during shield pressure. I'm gonna have to try that. I've NEVER done a shield drop on purpose.

Shieldropping has so much potential. It's just rarely done because in the heat of the moment it's hard to force yourself to do it. It's kinda like light-shielding. I bet it's amazing, but I never do it.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i always thought a wd oos was faster than a shield drop. if one were to shield drop, then they may as well wdoos in place and then do what they were gonna do.

unless i'm mistaken. i think a shield drop takes 15 frames.

 

[Ulti]

Doesn't wavedash oos take 17 frames with Ganon (7 frame jump and ten frames of wd lag)?

Also, shield-drop is shielding on a platform and then falling through it, correct? Even if it is slower, it serves a different purpose (gets you positioned under the platform, a plus if you're opponent is on it) and gives you another option then wd/sh oos and considering that not a lot of people use it right now, it might even have a surprise factor going for it.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Doesn't wavedash oos take 17 frames with Ganon (7 frame jump and ten frames of wd lag)?

Also, shield-drop is shielding on a platform and then falling through it, correct? Even if it is slower, it serves a different purpose (gets you positioned under the platform, a plus if you're opponent is on it) and gives you another option then wd/sh oos and considering that not a lot of people use it right now, it might even have a surprise factor going for it.

Well then I guess I'm talking about...shield-release? Just simply letting go of the shield. He was going straight into jab or ftilt and IT WAS WORKING.

 

[Divinokage]

It's not slower, it's much faster than wd oos from a platform. It allows you to do instant up air out of shield after a drop.

Ya just letting go of the shield without letting go of your advantageous position, this is why I use it.

 

[G. Vice]

It's not slower, it's much faster than wd oos from a platform. It allows you to do instant up air out of shield after a drop.

Ya just letting go of the shield without letting go of your advantageous position, this is why I use it.

Yeah, the uair off a platform could be extremely useful. Not to mention since you've got your shield up it's blocking the oncoming attacks. The difficulty would be in not missing the shield drop, and ground dodging. That could get you in serious trouble if ya miss it.

 

[Vts]

Yeah, the uair off a platform could be extremely useful. Not to mention since you've got your shield up it's blocking the oncoming attacks. The difficulty would be in not missing the shield drop, and ground dodging. That could get you in serious trouble if ya miss it.

see you still care about smash g.vice!!

travel more!!!

your coming to the next memphis tournament i'll drive back that same night if i must !

also u need to work on buffing rolls so my jab grabs don't work :D

 

[G. Vice]

see you still care about smash g.vice!!

travel more!!!

your coming to the next memphis tournament i'll drive back that same night if i must !

also u need to work on buffing rolls so my jab grabs don't work :D

Yup, I sure do.

I've always cared about smash, I just can't put it above school or church in my life