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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

spider_sense

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I talked to Fuzzyness yesterday and he said that Shield dropping should be used more often.. I thought about it and it seems like it would be useful. (I actually dreamt about it too for some reason, I guess I deemed it worthy enough lol)

For example on BF, You are Ganon on the left platform you shield. Marth Uptilts your shield. You can apparently drop down from the platform and instantly upair Marth while Marth is still in lag from the utilt.. how sick is that?

It seems to me this technique can create more opportunities to punish even though it's situational.
Yeah, I've had the same idea against Marth and spacies that continuously bair you against the ledge, so far I've been using light shield along with SDI to get the uair, but it hasn't been successful.

Iori is whatever he wants to be...

Okay, I got a quick question for you folks: how long did it take you to learn to consistently waveland from the edge? Also, is it possible to uair from the ledge onto the stage?
I think it took me about 2-3 weeks to get it down consistently. lol @ that comment - I didn't mean for it to be offensive, he's a very talented player and I felt challenged by his play style. And he's a pretty fun guy to talk to as well. :) Mad props at Iori...in case he reads this. lol
 

Divinokage

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Yeah, I've had the same idea against Marth and spacies that continuously bair you against the ledge, so far I've been using light shield along with SDI to get the uair, but it hasn't been successful.
Well then let's make it successful then, if thats a tool that can put people in serious ****, then why not? lol. Ganon is definitely a character that needs everything extra to win.
 

Comrade

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Yes it's possible to uair on the stage from the ledge, it's one of the options Ganon should use sometimes. As for wavelanding consistently, I still mess up every once a while. You can't really sleep on the technical with any character for that matter, that question for how long does it take to get consistently get it is a bit odd to me.
Yeah, I used to be able to do it about a third of the time, and then I slacked and can't really do it at all any more. I was just wondering if it was one of those "part of my bag of tricks" sort of things or "hey look, i can sometimes superwavedash with samus" sort of things.

Also, any tips on Uairing from the ledge to the stage? I've never been able to pull it off, and haven't really seen it in person before...
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Damn that marth utilt punish sounds like a very viable shield drop tech. I like that.

Uairing from the ledge, you just have to be fast. Like pretty much frame perfect on dj out of ledgedrop to uair, holding forward. It'll come with practice. Same with wavelanding consistently. Some of it will become straight muscle memory, which allows you to focus on other stuff, but a lot of it will be reaction time based off visual ques (like judging when to hit R based on Ganon's position and speed at which he he is falling). If you're fastfalling it's way easier, also if you waveland out of your forward dj animation it's literally too easy. Once you can perfect waveland out of a SHFF consistently you greatly increase Ganon's speed and agility.
 

spider_sense

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Yeah, I used to be able to do it about a third of the time, and then I slacked and can't really do it at all any more. I was just wondering if it was one of those "part of my bag of tricks" sort of things or "hey look, i can sometimes superwavedash with samus" sort of things.

Also, any tips on Uairing from the ledge to the stage? I've never been able to pull it off, and haven't really seen it in person before...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDs-lPmIUec

Starts at 1:22, I'd say watch the parts where Tipman is doing to techy stuff to get an idea on what it looks like and try your best to immulate it. I also recommend practicing on Battle Field and Final Destination, since those ledges make it easier to ledge dash and ledge hop uair. Oh and set the time to infinite. You'll be dying alot. lol
 

Jonas

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When I waveland from the ledge, I never use visual cues. They just **** me up because Ganon seems to be too low to be able to do it lol. I just found the right timing and practiced it a lot (still not on 100% consistency though).
A tip for doing the waveland, or edgedash as it's also called, is to first make sure that you can cosistently ledgedrop -> double jump and land on the stage. If you can do that, wavelanding is relatively easy if you can get the right timing.

On the shield drop thing, is it just the same as when you tilt the stick down too fast to angle the shield and too slow to spot dodge, or is it something different involving shieldlag?
 

Divinokage

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Damn that marth utilt punish sounds like a very viable shield drop tech. I like that.
Well if you can shield drop at anytime whenever your shield gets hit or not.. then you can really surprise people when they attempt to hit you from below you or even from the sides if they decide to jump at you. You can return to a much safer position. You can just shield ANY aerial and then go back down from the platform and return the favor. lol. Of course that is assuming they don't wait lol.

I think what Shield Drop looks like is when you are in shield.. you fall down the platform instantly. When they hit your shield, it only takes a split second more before you can do it.

I'm going to have to test this thoroughly and see what every option possible comes from this. And also what sucks about it.. though I already have a good idea.. If you get shield stabbed you cant do it obv, so already for us Ganon mains, well at least to me I generally shield stab a lot when someone is above me on platforms.
 

Jonas

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I just tested a little bit. Even with light shielding, your shield has to be pretty fresh if you don't want to get shield stabbed. Shield angling helps a bit, but I'd still have to say this is not Ganon's best way to get off platforms.
It definitely needs to be tried out in a real match though, so keep experimenting :bee:
 

Comrade

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDs-lPmIUec

Starts at 1:22, I'd say watch the parts where Tipman is doing to techy stuff to get an idea on what it looks like and try your best to immulate it. I also recommend practicing on Battle Field and Final Destination, since those ledges make it easier to ledge dash and ledge hop uair. Oh and set the time to infinite. You'll be dying alot. lol
Hehe, this is what taught me to tipman... anybody in the alabama crew will tell you i have a scary-good one haha

But alright, i'm gonna have to figure this stuff out again. Also, kage, when are you coming back to the states? Do you know?
 

Divinokage

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Hehe, this is what taught me to tipman... anybody in the alabama crew will tell you i have a scary-good one haha

But alright, i'm gonna have to figure this stuff out again. Also, kage, when are you coming back to the states? Do you know?
Next tournament Im going to is most likely Zenith.
 

Ace55

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I've been implementing shield dropping with Ganon for some time now. I actually find it hard to believe this extremely handy technique has hardly been used in a game of this age. Ganon especially craves for a fast way to get down from a platform he's trapped on, given his slow jump/dair. Other chars can use it too though since it's the fastest way to do an aerial out of your shield regardless of char.

However, it still feels awkward to execute for me. When shield pressured by let's say Falco it's extremely hard to perform before your shield gets hit again. Talking about Falco, you can platform cancel bair out of a shield drop. I've done it a couple of times while messing around and I got hit with it in a match today. IIRC Ganon can platform cancel his upair, think of the possibilities.

People aren't used to dealing with it yet, so the surprise factor is obviously working in my advantage at this time, but it's a pretty awesome and overlooked technique.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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I've used it, just not super often (which I intend to fix). I Isai drop all the time though.

If you shield drop out of stun and fair frame perfect, the fair will hit your opponent standing on that platform.
 

SwizzyUK

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Has anyone got some sort of guide on shield dropping? I need to use that...
I'm also p***ed at Fuzzyness for not sharing that with me earlier lol, must be trying to keep me below him in the rankings
 

Ace55

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Has anyone got some sort of guide on shield dropping?
Don't know about a guide but the way I do it is just by slowly going from neutral to down on the control stick. Too slow and nothing happens, too fast and you spotdodge. I've heard other people using other ways to perform it though, like quarter circle down etc.
 

Bl@ckChris

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yeah, thats pretty much how it's done. dashdancedan has a video about it, but i'm not sure if its on his youtube channel or not. if you type in sheild drop on youtube, it should come up though.
 

Divinokage

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Hmm.. so i did play yesterday and I can't shield drop for **** lol. And anyways, it's really something that's not really super useful in general, in most situations I barely needed it.
 

DippnDots

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At first I thought Kage was saying he was going to play Zelda at the next tournament and I was like O_O then I was like -_- word
 

Эикельманн [РУС]

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Questions I have that I know I shouldn't be asking because they've probably already been asked a million times, buuuuut

Ganon in teams with peach
How to improve spacing with Ganon
Tips on perfecting the Ganon Sheik matchup

Through advice on all three in a PM or post would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 

-ACE-

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1. Leave that one to mostly kage/linguini, as they've teamed with high level peaches more than any ganons

2. Improving spacing is just knowing your hitboxes, as well as your opponents' character's hitboxes, as well as being familiar with their approaches. Sometimes you don't know exactly when a fast character is going to approach (say a fox nair), but you predict it and throw out an ftilt (for example). If you're right, he runs into a fully spaced ftilt and at most trades hits with you (trades are almost always good for ganon). Try to fully space aerials all the time, it won't take long to get really good at it that way. You'll see yourself getting punished a lot less and you'll get a lot better at shield poking as you become more exact.

3. Consistency. As soon as you slip up or goof up a tech, sheik will be there to grab/abc combo you. Practice the cg to the point where it is second nature and know how to follow it up. Same with edgeguarding (look at my edgeguarding thread). Utilize CC'ing at low% and do whatever you can to attack sheik from below due to the weakness of her dair. Once you're consistent with your techs it's all about winning exchanges from the neutral position, so you have to mindgame approaches. Everyone does this a little differently but fullhop aerials to dj second aerial is the most basic bait/punish. You can sh waveland grab when she is expecting you to aerial her shield, and whenever possible, the strongest opener on her at 0-10% or so, is dair > grab > cg. If you're cg'ing under a platform, be ready for the techchase opportunity when she gets high enough to land up there (I think like 40-45% on BF platforms), you can get a free aerial or go for another grab from a waveland.
 

Superspright

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What about simply following the roll then back jumping up (assuming it's bf)? It puts him on the platform the fastest, and there is no 10 frame lag on what you want to do.
 

A2ZOMG

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A2ZOMG
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G. Vice

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A2Z for good spacing see, -ACE- and Kage vids.

On your first vid, it's moment's like 0:39-0:45 that make me question your spacing. Any good player is going to capitalize when they are shielding and you full jump Fair 2 inches away from them. They'll either Uair out of shield, or reposition themselves to hit you when you miss them. Keep working on it, and seriously check out some Kage vids, his spacing/shield pressure is amazing.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Fair and bair work well against marth's nair if they're fully spaced. Late retreating Uair on the way down from a jump can beat it too if you time it well. If marth rushes in with a sh nair, wd back or retreating fair. If you have to shield, either go for a shieldgrab or buffer a forward roll if he goes through you.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Under what conditions?
Because of how marth's nair works, marth's head is very exposed to ganon's moves in particular. The further away from marth ganon is, the easier time he will have hitting marth through it, since marth's sword will be lower and ganon's moves will go over the blade and hit him in the face. From my experience, ganon's bair will always beat marth's nair if both hitboxes are out.
 

DippnDots

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probably the best april 1st ever.

Well since smash I'm going to live a productive day and read all the insane posts caused by this.


and even the ganon can't catch marth
 
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