Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Divinokage]

so i'm starting to get to the level where i can start to see spotdodges. but i don't usually know what to do with them. i don't feel like i have enough time to punish with dair, so all i get out of a solid read is a grab...which can **** but meh.

is there anything you guys think would be more useful out of a spotdodge read?

Well there's a situation when some people will spotdodge when Ganon is on top of them after a DJ, if they do that.. it can allow you to do a super late dair. It's not everyone that does that though.. it's a bit risky. I can't really think of a specific situation where spot dodge is punished 100%, because it's usually on reaction and it depends on your spacing. I mean if they spot dodge when you are on the side of them, you can do a late Fair, you know? Or ya if you are point blank and they expect a jab, but you don't do it.. you grab them for sure too.

 

[IYM!]

i do thutherstorming (i dont know if in melee exist this AT)

SH->Dair->FF->Lcancel->predict where the opponent will stand up-> repeat

is very fun do that, it guaranted atleast 40% of damage, and i love finsh that with the PUNCH!

 

[G. Vice]

Nice avatar Kage.

 

[Superspright]

Question: I've been messing around a little with Ganny. Ganon has a lot of edge-cancel shenanigans. Why do I never see this?

 

[Divinokage]

It doesn't usually result in anything super useful but if you want to be really flashy I guess you could go for ledge cancels. =P Of course there might be some situations if you see it that you can ledge cancel and punish.

So I did the other best of 101 today vs another guy that plays Falcon/Ganon.. it ended up 51-2 again. It should be uploaded soon. I played Falcon a bit more in that one.

 

[Superspright]

Well, aren't there situational combos out of it? Like, dair to uair, or dair to fair?At low percents they can't di far away enough to take the damage from pretty much any aerial. Or, dair to dair works too I imagine. Or edge-canceled aerials to FF wavelands grab/jab.

I wish I could 101 you Kage, just for the learning experience. I only play Ganny. The right corner of the character select screen is where I reside. Oh well.

 

[Divinokage]

Well, aren't there situational combos out of it? Like, dair to uair, or dair to fair?At low percents they can't di far away enough to take the damage from pretty much any aerial. Or, dair to dair works too I imagine. Or edge-canceled aerials to FF wavelands grab/jab.

I wish I could 101 you Kage, just for the learning experience. I only play Ganny. The right corner of the character select screen is where I reside. Oh well.

Whoa, that far away? Damn.. lol. Oh ya I guess you can do dair into instant upair that way.

 

[warlock-don-mia24]

who has the best ganon style of play in the world today

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i took stocks off of pp's fox yesterday.

clearly, it is me.

 

[G. Vice]

who has the best ganon style of play in the world today

Well you got a few different styles ranging from technical-flash(Spidersense) with excessive un-needed wavelands/moonwalks and all forms of cancels, to the near perfectly played "basic Ganon" style of Kage which is highly efficient, excellent spacing, working hard to making reads, and doing as little as possible that's not necessary. And that's probably the style that has the most success in the smash world. It's personally not my style, which would fall probably smack dab in the middle of those two extremes, but maybe there's something to be learned there.

 

[Palpi]

I love your Ganon gvice.

 

[G. Vice]

I love your Ganon gvice.

Lol, thanks dude.

I'm alright and all, but I don't claim to be a Ganon of Kage's/Linguini's level. I'm working on it though, and hopefully I'll keep improving.

Keep your eyes peeled for Devour 2. We finally started the actual syncing of clips to music the other day, so its closing in.

I was hoping Linguini's combo vid would be here already though.

 

[spider_sense]

Well you got a few different styles ranging from technical-flash(Spidersense) with excessive un-needed wavelands/moonwalks and all forms of cancels, to the near perfectly played "basic Ganon" style of Kage which is highly efficient, excellent spacing, working hard to making reads, and doing as little as possible that's not necessary. And that's probably the style that has the most success in the smash world. It's personally not my style, which would fall probably smack dab in the middle of those two extremes, but maybe there's something to be learned there.

lol I've toned down the tech skill quite a bit. I just like to be techy, but catch me when I'm playing to learn and serious. It's kinda scary. <__<

 

[G. Vice]

lol I've toned down the tech skill quite a bit. I just like to be techy, but catch me when I'm playing to learn and serious. It's kinda scary. <__<

good! all those moonwalks and wavelands can only be harmful after a certain point. Excessively techy stuff is only good between stocks after a kill :D

 

[Divinokage]

Doing as little as possible ya.. I noticed in my vids, I catch myself on either side of the platforms doing some wavelanding after the opponent is invincible. That's not good positioning at all, I should just escape. =P

 

[G. Vice]

Doing as little as possible ya.. I noticed in my vids, I catch myself on either side of the platforms doing some wavelanding after the opponent is invincible. That's not good positioning at all, I should just escape. =P

Yeah, no offense meant btw. As little as possible = efficient

and yeah, doing techy stuff between stocks tends to lead to bad news. But it's so tough to not do, even when you know that it's going to leave you in an inferior position when the opponent re-spawns.

 

[spider_sense]

lol I think G.Vice is calling me out. =P MM me bro.

 

[Divinokage]

Lol, no offense taken. I don't take offense to anything at all if it's actually the truth in the matter.

If you do the MM, record it, I want to see lol.

 

[spider_sense]

lol nah Kage. I'm not offended...just misunderstood. =(

 

[G. Vice]

lol I think G.Vice is calling me out. =P MM me bro.

Whoa now fella I ain't calling ya out.

Let's not get our drawers all wadded up now =p

But for reals, I would love to play you for the fun of it. I bet it'd be awesome dude.

 

[Divinokage]

Oh cmon, backing away are we? *shakes head*

There can only be moving forward! lol.

 

[G. Vice]

Oh cmon, backing away are we? *shakes head*

There can only be moving forward! lol.

I'm just non-confrontational that's all

But for real, I love competition, and welcome it. I'd love to ditto many Ganon's, yourself included.

 

[Divinokage]

One of those days.. I hope we get to do it while I can still travel. No idea what's coming up in life, you know? =P

 

[Comrade]

Thanks a lot for the nair info!
Also, what seem to be your bread-and-butter approaches?
For me it tends to consist of uairs, fairs, single/double bairs, and waveland->grab. Is that about it, or am I missing some basic approach option?

 

[G. Vice]

Thanks a lot for the nair info!
Also, what seem to be your bread-and-butter approaches?
For me it tends to consist of uairs, fairs, single/double bairs, and waveland->grab. Is that about it, or am I missing some basic approach option?

Hmm...primarily I don't think Ganon's mindset should be approaching. If Ganon is approaching, then he's putting the first foot in the door, and more often than not that's exactly what the opponent wants you to do. Ganon's slower than most characters, and any expendable move that is thrown out can be capitalized upon by the opponent, and often times that one mistake can lead to a series of unfortunate events for Ganon.

I like to think approaching as "making the opponent think I'm approaching when I'm actually spacing my attacks and trying to counter them when they try to counter me." According to the people I play, I set up a wall of attacks(obviously with thought behind them, not just spamming as many moves as I can in as short a time as possible) and pressure the opponent into making a mistake, at which point you capitalize.

I would say for the most part the only time Ganon should approach is when the opponent is rattled, and shows signs of suffering from the pressure. Then I usually turn up the heat and force them to break down and roll or shield.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

full waveland ftilt is the only approach that i can imagine keeping once i really get my wavelands down. marth/fox/falcon think they're safe at a certain distance, but if they're not fast enough to approach as soon as you make a short hop, a full waveland ftilt is often good to catch them.

 

[Superspright]

Perfect waveland jab is pretty effective too. Since you'll be moving while jabbing [assuming it's a perfect waveland]. You can even pivot it. I prefer to do that over ftilt. I feel like I get punished a lot for ftilt unless I'm edge-guarding.

 

[Ulti]

I like to think approaching as "making the opponent think I'm approaching when I'm actually spacing my attacks and trying to counter them when they try to counter me." According to the people I play, I set up a wall of attacks(obviously with thought behind them, not just spamming as many moves as I can in as short a time as possible) and pressure the opponent into making a mistake, at which point you capitalize.

Basically this for me too. Just to add to it, if I do find myself having to approach, I generally try to space a d-tilt or an f-tilt, go for a waveland/empty SH grab, or shield-stab with (usually) fair. Otherwise, I try to stand threateningly near my opponent and wait for them to do something and react accordingly.

 

[Walt]

G. Vice if you're still looking for some music, try some Ensiferum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV83Af_lLy8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJWXHI4SFxQ&feature=related

 

[Palpi]

I approve of Ensiferum, I actually just saw them with finntroll a month ago

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Folk metal + ganon = best.

 

[Superspright]

Been messing 'round with ganny more. I'm a scrub, but I keep feeling that edge-canceling aerials is extremely valuable. You can do any aerial then ff and waveland. Ganon can basically use aerials, and get wavelands. He can't do that from any aerial without an additional jump. On BF, and other stages with shorter platforms he basically can control an entire platform because he can throw out hitboxes to cover the top or bottom, and he can cancel, ff, and waveland under the platform and put pressure below, or jump back, waveland the top platform on bf/dreamland forward and go for an aerial, or ff and grab/jab. Or, edge-cancel an aerial on the platform, then start another immediately. You can do 3 uairs in like 3/4ths of a second this way. Effectively creating a jiggly puff like wall with the tipmans if they are low in percent enough. Works really only where there are two edges so close. BF/dreamland is all that comes to mind. I'm sure everyone knows that it's possible to do this stuff. But, I'm just going to figure out how to do this with the same consistency I waveland moonwalk and stuff.

Did a double dair yesterday smashing with some friends. Edge-canceled dair, jiggly meteor-canceled the first (hit through the lip of fd) ff dair, and I was able to recover. Situational, but can be crushing. But, uair and ftilt is my bread and butter on edge-guarding.

I feel like I splurge too much in here.

 

[Divinokage]

I'm just non-confrontational that's all .

Are you a man or a warrior?

 

[Veetaak]

Are you a man or a warrior?

Because you can't be both in Kage's book ^^

 

[G. Vice]

Are you a man or a warrior?

Neither. I'm a undead warlock

SS, I would think intentionally trying to ledge cancel 3 uairs in 3/4ths of a second may bypass 17 other better options for Ganon. I mean everything is situational, but I don't see something with such a high margin of error being effective while trying to maintain the fragile balance of spacing. Just my opinion.

 

[Superspright]

Well, I am saying that I would get consistent with this stuff before I'd go using it in a real match. Just being able to do 2 uairs consecutively isn't bad either at low percents. At higher percents I'd rather use my tipman to hit sweetspotters. It may have a high margin of error right now, because I can't do it perfectly, but I can see it being possible to do it very consistently. It's not that hard.

 

[Divinokage]

If it pressures the opponent by all means I would say, each attack must have a purpose with Ganon. If you just do random ledge cancels for the hell of it because it looks cool and Ganon's fast then you'll get punished hard. Ganon needs everything in his way to win consistently, you can't compromise your positioning just because you want to a fun ledge cancel. It could be good but it's definitely situational. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it either, do it since it may become a thing for your style however make sure it's useful. It would be better if you experiment yourself with it so then you can have a deep understanding as to why maybe it sucks there or it's good in other situations.

 

[spider_sense]

-shakes my head- spider_sense this...spider_sense that! Waah waah waah. You know what!? You know what!? I'm quitting Ganon FOREVERRRRR!!!! You'll never have to bring my name up whenever someone talks about the current metagame. I...QUIT!

 

[G. Vice]

-shakes my head- spider_sense this...spider_sense that! Waah waah waah. You know what!? You know what!? I'm quitting Ganon FOREVERRRRR!!!! You'll never have to bring my name up whenever someone talks about the current metagame. I...QUIT!

1) I hope this was a sarcastic, joke post, cause we Ganon mains can't lose one of the elites.

2) If you're reading into the fact that I said "SS" I was referring to SuperSpright.


Also, Kage. You basically echoed my exact post, only you put it the warrior touch on it. Good to know we are on the same brainwave :D

 

[Superspright]

If it pressures the opponent by all means I would say, each attack must have a purpose with Ganon. If you just do random ledge cancels for the hell of it because it looks cool and Ganon's fast then you'll get punished hard. Ganon needs everything in his way to win consistently, you can't compromise your positioning just because you want to a fun ledge cancel. It could be good but it's definitely situational. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it either, do it since it may become a thing for your style however make sure it's useful. It would be better if you experiment yourself with it so then you can have a deep understanding as to why maybe it sucks there or it's good in other situations.

Oh I will. I usually look toward you as a model for my Ganon. All efficiency, little to no flourish, and a high dependency on reads. But, I am not trying to do this for something fancy. Perfectwaveland to moonwalk to me is safe, and useful in some situations. I'd never use it more than one or twice a match. But, everything has a place. I am trying to find that place for this niche. Since Ganon is one of the rare characters to get a huge benefit from 1-2 attacks I think it's imperative to find any way I can to squeeze an extra fair, or uair out of a situation that I normally wouldn't identify as an opportunity.

Effectively, I want to look like I'm playing on AR.