spider_sense
Smash Champion
Yeah, chain-grabbing Falco is too funny. I did the 0-120% on a few falco players, like maybe twice.
-
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
DippnDots
Feral Youth
Yes.... green greens.... great stage >_> *bubbling sound*
Pyrostormer
Smash Lord
AWWWW YEAH. I had a saftey meeting while playing on Green Greens once, **** was good.
And Kage, have you attempted at the reverse standing grab?
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Green Greens is still legal?
-Kimo
-Kimo
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
I can't try the "green" technique for work related reasons (my job tests to see if you've counterpicked green greens recently), but the "brewed" (coffee maybe?) technique works miracles for me. Just 3 and my hands loosen up and do exactly what I want. I was wreckin a couple of days ago using this. I wasn't missing wavelands or anything.
-Kimo
-Kimo
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Uhh Pivot grab or like a JC grab that you get the opponent wayyyy far, like he's behind you but you still grab him? If this is so, I do it a lot lol. We call it the Matt grab here. =P Because Matt is a Falcon main in montreal, he's quite good and he does this all the time.
Pyrostormer
Smash Lord
Pivot grab.
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Anyone wanna post a recent Ganon ditto?
Pyrostormer
Smash Lord
Somewhat new?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX5M5jDOzkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX5M5jDOzkE
Renth
Smash Hero
My offer for you to visit PA is still on the table.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Don't worry Tipman. Linguini and I will record a set just for you. :3
@ Renth. If The Great TT can't make it, can I come?
Renth
Smash Hero
Yes, everyones welcome. Bring Emillio with you.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
That Ganon ditto made my eyes bleed. Not that they were bad, but they obviously don't know a thing about that match up.
-Kye
-Kye
DippnDots
Feral Youth
No one likes a cynic
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
No johns but Jim and I treated that more like a friendly than a true MM, considering the circumstances. Thanks for the clever insight!
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Did you ask for insight? Did anyone?
Didn't think so.
Someone asked for a recent Ganon ditto vid in an effort to see how the matchup has evolved. The vid posted was a faulty example which just happened to have your Ganon on display. Calm down.
It's just the internet. Take personal offense and it will eat your babies and abort them through a crowded anal cavity.
-Kimosabae
(Cynics are GRRRRREAT!!!)
Didn't think so.
Someone asked for a recent Ganon ditto vid in an effort to see how the matchup has evolved. The vid posted was a faulty example which just happened to have your Ganon on display. Calm down.
It's just the internet. Take personal offense and it will eat your babies and abort them through a crowded anal cavity.
-Kimosabae
(Cynics are GRRRRREAT!!!)
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I took no offense to your comment, lol. You were simply in need of the info I provided.
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Fvck Linguini. He tries and makes me feel bad about not hitting him up last time he was here then I go out my way to meet up with him and his azz stays in Connecticut. That's strike two Emilio.
Renth you already know. I'll drop you a PM when ever I'm in the area. Smack Emilio for me when you meet him.
Synikal is a cynical. You still keeping your skills in the dark or are you dropping into some tourneys and getting vids up?
-Kimo
-WHAT??
-Tip
Renth you already know. I'll drop you a PM when ever I'm in the area. Smack Emilio for me when you meet him.
Synikal is a cynical. You still keeping your skills in the dark or are you dropping into some tourneys and getting vids up?
-Kimo
-WHAT??
-Tip
SynikaL
Smash Lord
In the dark? Everyone knows I'm terrible now. Hurry up and come back so we can train.
-Kimo
-Kimo
Pyrostormer
Smash Lord
To whoever can do it, how exactly do you get the pivoted F-tilt. I've tried pretty **** hard but I always seem to either do an F-smash or a dash attack.
When you pivot, you have to actually tilt (move the stick about half way) as opposed to going all the way (which would make you smash).
Magus420
Smash Master
I find it much easier if you release the control stick back to neutral following the dash that's before you're going to do the pivot, and then at a moderate speed press towards the direction you want to f-tilt in and press A right after the stick is like 3/4 of the way there. If you dash attack in the direction you were already going then you pressed A too early, dash attack in the direction you wanted to f-tilt in you pressed it too late, and if you f-smash you moved the stick too quickly/didn't let it go to neutral before pivoting.
Releasing to neutral before doing the pivot actually makes it impossible to f-smash as long as there's a frame read between neutral and the dash threshold (even if you press A when it's fully to the side), which is pretty easy to do unless you press it rather quickly. The game registers a f-smash much easier if you instead go from the area of the control stick you used for dashing in the original direction straight into the pivot.
You could also flick and release the opposite direction to pivot into a neutral stance out of the dash and then go to do the f-tilt (or whatever else you want really), but the extra time it takes to move the stick back again to do the tilt makes it slow and not really useful this way imo.
I do the flick release to do pivot jabs though since obviously there's no delay for repositioning the stick after the pivot since it's already at neutral from doing the flick to turn around. I especially like doing this into gentlemans with Falcon, lol. Since I can easily get these pretty much every time and as an added bonus I sometimes get f-tilts this way anyway, I usually do this instead of actively trying to pivot f-tilt as I don't like dashattacking into people if my timing was slightly off.
Releasing to neutral before doing the pivot actually makes it impossible to f-smash as long as there's a frame read between neutral and the dash threshold (even if you press A when it's fully to the side), which is pretty easy to do unless you press it rather quickly. The game registers a f-smash much easier if you instead go from the area of the control stick you used for dashing in the original direction straight into the pivot.
You could also flick and release the opposite direction to pivot into a neutral stance out of the dash and then go to do the f-tilt (or whatever else you want really), but the extra time it takes to move the stick back again to do the tilt makes it slow and not really useful this way imo.
I do the flick release to do pivot jabs though since obviously there's no delay for repositioning the stick after the pivot since it's already at neutral from doing the flick to turn around. I especially like doing this into gentlemans with Falcon, lol. Since I can easily get these pretty much every time and as an added bonus I sometimes get f-tilts this way anyway, I usually do this instead of actively trying to pivot f-tilt as I don't like dashattacking into people if my timing was slightly off.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
As far as actual technique goes, I've found that being good at Back Dashing helps (yes, Back Dashing and all its uses can be a dextrous accomplishment and hard to do consistently).
Jamming the stick, hard in the opposite direction of the Pivot kind of gives me a psychological crutch in regards to how much finesse needs to be applied for the tilt. Also, I kinda press the stick like a button when I do perform the tilt, to help me hit neutral and help keep the stick moving past that point.
-Kye
(not nearly as concise and articulate as it seemed in my head)
Jamming the stick, hard in the opposite direction of the Pivot kind of gives me a psychological crutch in regards to how much finesse needs to be applied for the tilt. Also, I kinda press the stick like a button when I do perform the tilt, to help me hit neutral and help keep the stick moving past that point.
-Kye
(not nearly as concise and articulate as it seemed in my head)
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Word, listen to Synikal. Syn and I have been messing with this tech for a long *** time dedicating hours of just dash dancing around each other just doing this and honestly I never seen any other players hone this as much as him. Practicing pivot fsmashes is great just to get the timing down. Then once you've got it try a diagonal ftilt up or down. Reason I say that is because you're less likely to tilt the stick to far when you do it at an angle. Worst thing though about pivots is its a skill easily forgotten.
Just be delicate and precise. Don't stress it cause once you do you'll lose it.
-Salaam (if that's possible while practicing this)
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Aww man, I almost forgot all about angled pivots. I promised myself I'd be the first out of the gate with those. Doing them facing left is easy, but for some reason, facing right is h3lla hard.
Gotta start messing with those again. I'm just now starting to get back into the technical side of things.
-Kye
Gotta start messing with those again. I'm just now starting to get back into the technical side of things.
-Kye
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
Like what Magus said, I always find it to be easier when you release the stick back to neutral after starting the dash. Also, the flick method for pivoting jabs only works if you have a relatively new control stick with a good spring-back.
Just like everything else for me, it is harder when I think about it, so instead of trying to remember the exact method for pivoting during a match, I just think "pivot" and let my hands do the work without thinking about it, that way it is more autonomous and less error-prone.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
You're much more likely to forget the timing that way (Like Tipman
), not to mention be generally inconsistent with it.Whatever works for you I guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if on random days you can't find yourself performing them at all (the days your attempting to "think" about it).
Mnemonics is a fundamental learning tool for the mind.
-Kimo
spider_sense
Smash Champion
I made a post about this, I simply can't fight Marths I absolutely don't have a clue. If I DI away from him (because I'm afraid of the F-smash) He'll just d-tilt. I watched Linguini 3 stock the same kid, while I'm having THE most trouble with him. Marth is an extremely frustrating character to deal with. And I don't know the best approach and defense, and overall metagame. I tried playing friendlies with the same marth, and we either go back and forth or he'll straight out own me, though throughout the night I started to get really pissed off and started doing better, though I had no idea what I was doing. I want to be able to play Marth comfortably and not get agitated. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. =/
Oh and I'm finding it really difficult to do attack right out of my shield. I think that's my biggest technical problem.
Oh and I'm finding it really difficult to do attack right out of my shield. I think that's my biggest technical problem.
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
I can't remember how many times I replied to this specific match up. I just remember that bair is awesome and uair out of shield ***** shff fairs that are done to early in the jump. IMO Marth in the air feels a lot more safer than Marth on the ground. It can always get tricky though. I like this match up, regardless how well you do in it, it helps you be on point with your spacing and teaches you to be fierce. After Marth practice no other homos are as intimidating. Even that ****, whats her name?
Hold on this is supposed to be Linguini's Q&A thread. Where the fvck is he?
-Shiek! Long live the 'A' button.
Hold on this is supposed to be Linguini's Q&A thread. Where the fvck is he?
-Shiek! Long live the 'A' button.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
So does this new activity mean you're back paperstsoapco?
The marth matchup is all about spacing. Pick a spot that's in front of ganon, don't let him advance on you past that point. Dash dance, throw out empty short hops when its safe, but keep him back beyond that point at all times. Once you get that concept down you can start getting trixy
Another thing with marth, and well any character really is, you really have to work on not committing yourself too much, and if you do you need to make sure it's safe.
The marth matchup is all about spacing. Pick a spot that's in front of ganon, don't let him advance on you past that point. Dash dance, throw out empty short hops when its safe, but keep him back beyond that point at all times. Once you get that concept down you can start getting trixy
Another thing with marth, and well any character really is, you really have to work on not committing yourself too much, and if you do you need to make sure it's safe.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Downair, downthrow, Nair, fair, drop zone fair, GAME! lol.
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
Practice makes perfect. That's all I have to say.You're much more likely to forget the timing that way (Like Tipman
Whatever works for you I guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if on random days you can't find yourself performing them at all (the days your attempting to "think" about it).
Mnemonics is a fundamental learning tool for the mind.
-Kimo
I get ***** by Marth's tilts. I can beat Marth mains consistently, but there is one Marth main I play that just plays viciously with his tilts. I still win, but when he hits me or grabs me once, I lost a stock. All I can say is to not forget the light shield edgehog.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Jason, think about what we talked about yesterday.
Your problems with Marth stem from your general skill level. Your next objective step forward as a player is to get your technicals down without looking at your character.
A key aspect of this matchup, as stated time and time again, is spacing. In order to space Marth, you have to know his position and intentions at all times. This is impossible if you have to look at Ganon every time you want to Waveland.
Not to mention the potential punishment opportunities missed that come from being trapped in procedural operations, making much of your technical displays wholly superfluous.
Next time you practice alone, practice everything you know looking only at the computer. Only practice fresh concepts looking at your character.
-Syn
Your problems with Marth stem from your general skill level. Your next objective step forward as a player is to get your technicals down without looking at your character.
A key aspect of this matchup, as stated time and time again, is spacing. In order to space Marth, you have to know his position and intentions at all times. This is impossible if you have to look at Ganon every time you want to Waveland.
Not to mention the potential punishment opportunities missed that come from being trapped in procedural operations, making much of your technical displays wholly superfluous.
Next time you practice alone, practice everything you know looking only at the computer. Only practice fresh concepts looking at your character.
-Syn
SwizzyUK
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 253
Speaking of marth combos, can someone tell me if this is avoidable or not? I do it on my friend all the time but he might be DI-ing wrong
From 0% on Marth
Dthrow, dthrow, side b, bair, bair
the 2nd bair depends on their DI
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You can probably get the 2 down throws, I never actually tried side B but I think it works.. however the marth can hit you for sure if hes good llol. And Bair x2.. ya the 2nd one depends on DI.
Linguini
Smash Master
Alright so ive been putting alot of time into my ganon to get it back to my old level and ill be answering much more in the thread from now on so ask away. For your questions on technical issues the one's to listen to are magus, synikal,and tipman; they know their stuff.
Jason, marth is tough because you have to be overly cautious not to get hit while doing your aerials or get caught in your jump. Without any jumps, fair combos are ganons' bane.
When a marth is dash dancing and wavedashing around to confuse you and throw off your spacing game, the best option is to use your bairs wisely. Double jump bairs dodge marths sword and many a time(with it's disjointed hitbox) ****s up marths pretty face in the middle of a dash dance. By far,the worst situation to be in against marths is getting fthrowed off the ledge. Make sure you immediately grab the ledge(this can be tricky at times since ganon is so big) to avoid marths dtilit or f smash. What you have to decide in this situation is whether the marth will stay on the stage and do as I stated above, or go jump off with an aerial. If he chooses the latter throw out a quick uairs which should take priority over his fair.
For a marth on the ledge, getting up onto the stage should be made as tedious as possible for him. Bait marths with alternate shielding/fairing and force him to do what you want him to do. For example, if your making a wall of fairs he will probably counter with a neutral air, counter this with a shieldgrab. Other than that bairs are a pretty solid edge nuisance for marth
adhdfoy
Smash Journeyman
Best Ganon in the world right here!
Ask me anything.
Ask me anything.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
lol. Cute. :3
Anyways, yeah. I need to learn how to do attacks out of shield way more consistently. I saw so many opportunities that I could have taken, but didn't because I was idling in my shield, and was forced to roll and thus get wrecked.
TommyDerMeister
Smash Lord
Alright so edgehop wavedash, wtf....
Is there a way to make practicing this easier? I know it's really all about timing when trying to do this, but it's just really frustrating. It's one of the things with Ganon that I have trouble doing consistently.
When I try doing it I
A) Airdodge into the ledge and SD ~70% of the time
B) Land on the stage with my shield up ~25% of the time
C) Actually do get the wavedash off ~5% of the time
The only stage where this is slightly easier for me is Yoshi's Story, since it has a slanted edge.
Just wondering if there is a good way to make the timing easier. Help?
Also, when you do this, do you drop down from the edge by taping down, then jump back up and WD? Or do you tap back, so that Ganon releases from the edge without FF, then jump and WD making the 2nd jump go slightly higher? (I think it's higher?) I find that by taping back and then trying to use your 2nd jump, Ganon jumps backwards most of the time.
Is there a way to make practicing this easier? I know it's really all about timing when trying to do this, but it's just really frustrating. It's one of the things with Ganon that I have trouble doing consistently.
When I try doing it I
A) Airdodge into the ledge and SD ~70% of the time
B) Land on the stage with my shield up ~25% of the time
C) Actually do get the wavedash off ~5% of the time
The only stage where this is slightly easier for me is Yoshi's Story, since it has a slanted edge.
Just wondering if there is a good way to make the timing easier. Help?
Also, when you do this, do you drop down from the edge by taping down, then jump back up and WD? Or do you tap back, so that Ganon releases from the edge without FF, then jump and WD making the 2nd jump go slightly higher? (I think it's higher?) I find that by taping back and then trying to use your 2nd jump, Ganon jumps backwards most of the time.