Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[SynikaL]

Y Why not just normal wall tech which is invincible for 19 and then up-b her? Does a bit more damage as well.

In my experience, I think I *might* have seen D. Smash win or Clank with Bair once. Definitely not enough times to convince me to stop using it. I have to count human error for something. No Peach is going to be so finicky with their D. Smash edgeguard as to make sure they hit with the first spin every time -- unless Ganons start doing it frequently enough to force Peach to evolve the matchup (definitely not at this moment).

Up B may do more damage, but Bair has the actual killing power. I'll stick with that until matchup evolution dictates I change it.

Sheik's D. Smash is definitely silly though.

Spider:

You can practice teching by turning items on with Mines only and going to either FD (place mines on the lip) or Corneria (place mines on the fin). I recommend FD, since you can practice way more things after teching.

As for jumping out of Shield, I just practice focusing on making sure I press the Jump button first. That's likely your problem -- you're too hasty in your execution and tend to move the stick first and get rolls, side dodges and such.

I remedy this specifically by practicing Out of Shield techniques using Light Shield. I make sure I'm still Shielding when I press jump. Psychologically, it forces my mind to pay more respect to the Jump button.

I Use the Control Stick to Jump situationally -- situations where I want Up Air to come out as Fast as possible. When certain characters are being aggressive up close is a general example.

-Kye

 

[Linguini]

Forgot to mention uair out of shield is amazing against close range turnip spam.

Kye we need to play this weekend.

 

[SynikaL]

I don't think that's gonna be possible. Finals Week is this week and I've got a paper due the week after that. I do wanna play though, so I'll see.


-Kimo

 

[Ulti]

Does Ganon's u-throw do anything particularly useful in this matchup? To me it seems that it should be a safer way of avoiding potential n-airs since she'll be too high to hit, although I guess if u-air is guarenteed it's rather a moot point. Also, I didn't know dthrow could lead to guarenteed f-airs, wow I'll have to remember that.

Speaking of u-throw, is it useful in any matchup? I sometimes use it vs fast-fallers to force a platform tech-chase, or if they di poorly I can get a free b-air out of it, but it otherwise it seems very situational and you need your opponent to not suspect it. Is there anyting it can lead to on a semi-consistent basis?

Also, are Ganon players going to E52? I am currently on the fence about it right now, but I'd definitely want to mm/play you guys if I go. :D

 

[Magus420]

In my experience, I think I *might* have seen D. Smash win or Clank with Bair once. Definitely not enough times to convince me to stop using it. I have to count human error for something. No Peach is going to be so finicky with their D. Smash edgeguard as to make sure they hit with the first spin every time -- unless Ganons start doing it frequently enough to force Peach to evolve the matchup (definitely not at this moment).

If they're not getting the 1st hit a good amount of the time it's probably because they just aren't aware that it matters. It's not very difficult to time against Ganon's up-b if they make an effort to hit with it like that. The startup delay on its own is quite short and pretty easy to time upon seeing the up-b unless you're almost right underneath them, and there's only like 1 or 2 frames between the charge frame and when it hits when released if they charge it a bit.

All I know is when I'm playing against a Peach that's aware of the 1st hit being able to catch people out of wall tech invincibility, if they do use d-smash to edgeguard I get double hit out of my walljump tech far more often than not, and so I made an effort to try to stop doing it as it was causing me much more harm than good.

Does Ganon's u-throw do anything particularly useful in this matchup? To me it seems that it should be a safer way of avoiding potential n-airs since she'll be too high to hit, although I guess if u-air is guarenteed it's rather a moot point. Also, I didn't know dthrow could lead to guarenteed f-airs, wow I'll have to remember that.

Speaking of u-throw, is it useful in any matchup? I sometimes use it vs fast-fallers to force a platform tech-chase, or if they di poorly I can get a free b-air out of it, but it otherwise it seems very situational and you need your opponent to not suspect it. Is there anyting it can lead to on a semi-consistent basis?

I don't use u-throw much in general unless like you said there's a platform that they'd be landing on if they DI away, because if there isn't one you can't do much of anything after it when they DI that way, while d-throw generally always gets you something. Falcon comes to mind though since you can't reliably get much off d-throw on him anyway, and with u-throw you'd get a good hit or somewhat easy platform followup.

For the d-throw f-air or the u-air at 0% on Peach when they DI behind make sure you smash behind to do the turn/dash because you usually need the non-laggy turnaround to be able to hit them in time (it's needed for the u-air or you can be n-aired). You also need to jump immediately as the dash starts and get the f-air out as you leave the ground. If you do it right it only takes 2 frames longer than a regular f-air, and should look almost like you go directly from facing one direction to jumping and f-airing behind you.

You can also d-throw f-air Marth and some others that aren't either too heavy or fall too fast when they DI behind you as well.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

SleepyK I got a cube and Melee for about $54. Thanks again for the offer, ask Kage if he needs that cube.

Kage I saw you kick Vanz' azz in that crew battle. I lawled hard when I saw you beat him with one stock less. That's what he gets for sucking with Sheik.

Magus I used bair off the jump tech to push Peach away from the edge so I can recover. Upb can sometimes put you in a funny positions. If you say though Peach's are getting smart and punishing the bair I take your word for it.

Oh, and Kage you do know your name in Spanish roughly translates to "**** myself" right?

 

[Cia]

^ my sheik tore you apart pretty nicely. remember?

 

[Linguini]

get outta here, you dont play ganon.
*shoo*

haha tommy thats what i thought when i first saw kage's name.
you chose a bad name bro, i cant take it seriously.

me kage los pantalones.

 

[Cia]

actually i do. ask Kage. He's seen my Ganon. it has insane mindgames.

 

[spider_sense]

actually i do. ask Kage. He's seen my Ganon. it has insane mindgames.

lol nice quote Vanz.

 

[DippnDots]

in the peach matchup, if you space well enough, can you hit her shield with a fair or bair safely? And erm, do these combos work?

uair -> fair (around 20%) i ask this because ive gotten uair -> uair before on her at low percents
jab -> fair

 

[SleepyK]

kage, need a cube?

 

[CluelessBTD]

Do it with the cstick. That way you can start ledgedashing off the platform. It's sad that there really are no Ganons now that use that at all. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction but it's something that's amazingly useful and not explored and elaborated enough by newer Ganons.

The reason why it isn't used is because it is WAY too dangerous. I've even seen you suicide at least once in your videos trying to do it. It looks really cool and feels good when it leads to a successful mindgame, but I'd rather not risk SDing

 

[SleepyK]

once you're able to do it every time, then it isn't a risk at all.

 

[-ACE-]

The reason why it isn't used is because it is WAY too dangerous. I've even seen you suicide at least once in your videos trying to do it. It looks really cool and feels good when it leads to a successful mindgame, but I'd rather not risk SDing

I didn't even notice during yesterday's "festivities" that Tipman was talking about reverse ledgedash. I have used this some in friendlies, followed immediately by a regular ledgedash as a simple mindgame.. but not much. You'll roll your eyes but I use down to let go of ledge for these too lol

 

[Magus420]

It's not bad once you get used to it. I can actually do a ledgehop reverse waveland immediate fastfall regrab invincible ledgestall on the right side of the stage. It's hot. My reverse WLs kinda suck on the left side though, let alone be able to fastfall them if I wanted with any consistency. You can set up edgecanceled aerials really easily off a r-WL which is pretty cool.

 

[-ACE-]

Magus that is just too nasty lol

 

[CluelessBTD]

It's not bad once you get used to it. I can actually do a ledgehop reverse waveland immediate fastfall regrab invincible ledgestall on the right side of the stage. It's hot. My reverse WLs kinda suck on the left side though, let alone be able to fastfall them if I wanted with any consistency. You can set up edgecanceled aerials really easily off a r-WL which is pretty cool.

VIDEO PLEASE! That sounds pretty nice, I'm actually hooking up my AR right now to check all the frame data. I actually use down to ledgehop cuz I asked Magus what I should do back when I was a beginner. I'm thinking about switching to C-stick now for speed.

I can actually perform the reverse ledgedash by dropping with down, but I've only done it once in a match. I still don't think I'd do it in tournament unless I was up a couple of stocks.

 

[Divinokage]

kage, need a cube?

Meh I just need the game with the memory card. =P I have a wii. But I should get it myself.

Tipman, no I did not know that lol. For me, it means Shadow as I have had that name since 3-4 years old. It's my childhood warrior name. And since I watch anime and smash only takes 4 letters, Kage means Shadow in japanese.

Vanz, I was lolling the whole match vs Chibo right? OMG that was hilarious! =D

Well since we are on somewhat the topic, I have heard rumors that I am hated by Linguini somewhat, why's that? Or is it true?

 

[Magus420]

Video of which? The WL FF stall or the WL edgecancels? The stall itself is pretty useless since you can just do the normal one anyway xD. Though you could throw one in occasionally with the normal stall to make it less obvious when you're getting up.

A large amount of the cast actually has the WL FF invincible stall. They're... not exactly practical though, lol.

 

[SwizzyUK]

Downair, downthrow, Nair, fair, drop zone fair, GAME! lol.

Tried this today, couldnt get the 2nd hit of nair to make contact for ****... am i doing something wrong, or can they DI out of the nair? (My mate definitely wasnt using smash DI in case you were wondering)

On the plus side, my combo was destroying him. I would be honoured if you would steal it from me kage I wanna see if it can be used vs top level tournament players

 

[Linguini]

Meh I just need the game with the memory card. =P I have a wii. But I should get it myself.

Tipman, no I did not know that lol. For me, it means Shadow as I have had that name since 3-4 years old. It's my childhood warrior name. And since I watch anime and smash only takes 4 letters, Kage means Shadow in japanese.

Vanz, I was lolling the whole match vs Chibo right? OMG that was hilarious! =D

Well since we are on somewhat the topic, I have heard rumors that I am hated by Linguini somewhat, why's that? Or is it true?

what! who said this nonsense ,dude your the ****.
we had too much fun in GA lol

 

[Divinokage]

what! who said this nonsense ,dude your the ****.
we had too much fun in GA lol

No clue, I forget. =p But ok at least that is clear. =)

 

[SleepyK]

i have a spare meree i can mail uz

 

[Linguini]

lol asian speak

 

[SleepyK]

ringuini .

 

[Cia]

Kage - our pool was by FAR the most fun.

 

[Divinokage]

Any pool with Kage the Warrior will obviously be the most fun =). I bring joy to my opponents. =P I want to do that too so it happens.

Or for example like Hax$ he brings so much attention to him and everyone gets hype, or Shiz too god****. lol.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

When I MM you Kage, will I have fun?

 

[Divinokage]

When I MM you Kage, will I have fun?

So much fun that youll want to endless MM me. lol. I actually have Eggz, Cactuar and Vex doing it every chance we have. lol.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

^ my sheik tore you apart pretty nicely. remember?

Don't front Vanz like I haven't spanked that Sheik of yours. If you don't remember then maybe a $20 MM might cement in your memory better? Wanna give me your bubble tea money?

For the reverse LD's I just need to get that forward momentum in my jump ASAP. When I do it with the c-stick it becomes easy. When I got the cube yesterday I was doing em no problem and as long as you have forward momentum there should be no reason for you to air dodge off the edge at all. Worst comes to worst your rolling on the edge.

Kage was your childhood warrior name? Oh, man where do the jokes start?

 

[SynikaL]

Wanna give me your bubble tea money?

Jesus, I miss this man.

-Kye

 

[Cia]

Don't front Vanz like I haven't spanked that Sheik of yours. If you don't remember then maybe a $20 MM might cement in your memory better? Wanna give me your bubble tea money?

For the reverse LD's I just need to get that forward momentum in my jump ASAP. When I do it with the c-stick it becomes easy. When I got the cube yesterday I was doing em no problem and as long as you have forward momentum there should be no reason for you to air dodge off the edge at all. Worst comes to worst your rolling on the edge.

Kage was your childhood warrior name? Oh, man where do the jokes start?

YOU DIDN'T!! lol. My sad Peach, yeah. but you haven't beaten my Sheik.

i'd definitely MM you for $20.00

 

[TommyDerMeister]

So much fun that youll want to endless MM me. lol. I actually have Eggz, Cactuar and Vex doing it every chance we have. lol.

How often do you guys do it?
no homo?



Daamn, three months until Genesis, so close, but so far away. I'm so excited.

 

[CluelessBTD]

I've been playing around with AR a bit lately, and I was checking to see which characters are exposed for shield poking when their shield is full (no light shielding). We really need to study more on this, since it has been working so well for Kage.

One thing I found, was that the top of Marth's head is exposed and quite easy to poke. One sure fire way is to perform a Dair so that the hit box comes one right above Marth's head without touching the shield, and then fast fall it immediately and it's a guaranteed poke.

OR, we can adopt Kage's method for shield poking by executing Dair at the last second while inside the enemy's shield. This way works well with a wide variety of characters, but doesn't always work, according to my tests at least.

 

[SynikaL]

Yeah, Tipman used to do this to my Marth with Bair a lot. VERY frustrating (Marth's Shield protection near his head is butt).

I've wanted to explore this more in the past, but as you've alluded, the game doesn't obey the relationship between exposed areas and attack hitboxes consistently, which is a d@mn shame. Were it fleshed out more, it would have added another very complex layer to the competitive metagame.

-Kye

 

[spider_sense]

lol, Tipman you need to come back to Florida so I can play you.

@ Kye - We need to play, just let me know when. :3

 

[CluelessBTD]

Also, not too long ago I said that Reverse ledgedashing was too risky, but I take it back. I just went and practiced it a bit and it really isn't very hard to be consistent with. I was doing it over and over again without any SDs, so yeah....good tech.

BTW, I drop from the ledge by pressing down with the control stick. I will never switch to c-stick, it seems too unreliable and doesn't allow you to DI completely left or right while jumping (because you are jumping using up other wise)

 

[Linguini]

No clue, I forget. =p But ok at least that is clear. =)

yo whoever is spreading **** let me know, cant ****ing stand those cvnts

tommy hahaha

 

[Nomster]

Linguini your sig makes me hungry