Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[SynikaL]

Let go of the ledge with the C-Stick (Back, gently).

-Kimo

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Edited after your post and didn't see it, lol.

I'll try that out right now.

 

[-ACE-]

For the ledge-dash, I use down to drop from the ledge (just barely - no FF), then jump immediately while kinda doing a 1/4 turn with the joystick to the forward position and then hit R. If you just barely press down you won't fastfall. Just find whichever way works best for you.

 

[SynikaL]

If you just barely press down you won't fastfall. Just find whichever way works best for you.

Using the C-Stick to Ledge Dash with Ganon is objectively the most efficient method to perform the technique. Any other method to Ledge Cancel leaves the technique prey to the influence of Air Control which is more likely to screw-up a tech of this type of precision.

No offense, but I'm willing to bet money that you screw it up more than most people pressing Down on the Control Stick. It's very difficult to get zero fastfall frames using that method. Ledge Cancelling with the C-Stick leaves zero possibility of that effect.

-Sabae

 

[Magus420]

I use down like that as well. I find it less awkward when doing some things out of it than clawing or using the control stick to jump.

 

[SynikaL]

Oh, I did forget to mention you need to use the Control Stick to jump. He's probably cursing me right about now.


-Kimo

 

[Dogysamich]

*stick*
congrats.

 

[-ACE-]

No offense, but I'm willing to bet money that you screw it up more than most people pressing Down on the Control Stick. It's very difficult to get zero fastfall frames using that method.

Nah, ledgedash is not really an issue lol.. I just don't like using up to jump (except for attacking OOS in certain situations).

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Nah, ledgedash is not really an issue lol.. I just don't like using up to jump (except for attacking OOS in certain situations).

Do it with the cstick. That way you can start ledgedashing off the platform. It's sad that there really are no Ganons now that use that at all. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction but it's something that's amazingly useful and not explored and elaborated enough by newer Ganons.

Synikal get back in this game and play Ganon so you can show people there is still room for this character to grow.

Dippndots nah man. No cube or video games where I'm at. Been sick and have some fvcking tooth problem that's kept me seditary and at my computer for more than I should be. Don't get me wrong I like this game a lot and if I had a cube with AR I'd be all over about now.

-Tip

 

[Zenjamin]

Hey Kage, how did you feel about ganon in B+?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2oBAeBpSXw

EDIT:
Holy crap! I know this thread is all about melee.... but is B+ ganon broken now?



And in order to give this post meele context, I think that wave landed tilts are underused, and downB spikes on the ledge are underexplored.

 

[SleepyK]

tbh any method is perfectly viable for anything as long as you put the practice into it.
most good ganondorfs i've seen use wavelanded tilts.

 

[Divinokage]

I don't know, Ganon in Brawl+ could be nice. But I have no idea of his potential, that was my first game in a tournament match with him, I have no experience lol. I was playing him too much like in the real brawl.

 

[SleepyK]

tipman i'd be willing to donate my cube if need be.

 

[SynikaL]

Tommy that's your job, man. Everyone's waiting for you to come back.

I wish I was liked enough for someone to want to donate their fvcking Gamecube to me!

*sniff*

-Kye

 

[-ACE-]

Do it with the cstick. That way you can start ledgedashing off the platform. It's sad that there really are no Ganons now that use that at all. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction but it's something that's amazingly useful and not explored and elaborated enough by newer Ganons.

I can definitely understand the benefits of your method. I just hardly ever SD during ledgedashes or else I'd probably switch. I really appreciate you taking the time to help though Tipman.

 

[SleepyK]

i've heard only good things about you, synikal!

if tipman doesn't need the cube and you do, donation switch?

 

[Divinokage]

So I've lost to 2 peaches at Spoc this weekend. Namely Vwins and Wife. Vwins almost always beats me because I guess he knows me too much and Wife.. well, he seems to be the Canadian slayer lol, he beat Vwins at RoM then me and Bam right after at another tourney. Lately, I sort of thought that peach mains know how to fight against Ganon now so... What stage would you ban against this character? What can you do against the turnip, it seems too good against Ganon and that Nair.. god.. lol. Other than that there's no problems. Both opponents were really close so I don't know if I got outplayed or is that matchup heavily stage dependant? Both matches I won were on Yoshis vs Wife and Kongo Jungle vs Vwins.

 

[SynikaL]

Haha, I don't need a Cube but thanks. Send that sh*t to Tommy.

-Kimo

 

[CluelessBTD]

So I've lost to 2 peaches at Spoc this weekend. Namely Vwins and Wife. Vwins almost always beats me because I guess he knows me too much and Wife.. well, he seems to be the Canadian slayer lol, he beat Vwins at RoM then me and Bam right after at another tourney. Lately, I sort of thought that peach mains know how to fight against Ganon now so... What stage would you ban against this character? What can you do against the turnip, it seems too good against Ganon and that Nair.. god.. lol. Other than that there's no problems. Both opponents were really close so I don't know if I got outplayed or is that matchup heavily stage dependant? Both matches I won were on Yoshis vs Wife and Kongo Jungle vs Vwins.

Do you guys think that Brinstar would be a good choice vs Peach? I mean, so that she can't edgegaurd you with Dair>Nair as easily. Also, she has less space to play with turnips and she can't recover as high.

I love D-throw Fair on peach. One other thing I noticed is that her Usmash seems to suck me in from pretty far away.

 

[Divinokage]

lol that actually reminds me I lost to Vanz peach on Brinstar. I don't think it's good vs peach, i died inside the invincibility frames because i went for a fast fall fair but he downsmashed the little things and i went through the stage and lava lol. Peach can camp too much on brinstar imo.

 

[SleepyK]

imo good stages vs peach tend to be the smaller stages with platforms.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Haha, I don't need a Cube but thanks. Send that sh*t to Tommy.

-Kimo

What are we sending to me?

Tommy that's your job, man. Everyone's waiting for you to come back.

-Kye

I'm still trying to find out which of the methods gives most the most success. So far the c-stick method has been working the best, but I really need to work on the timing and such. I also bair alot when trying to do this, I think I'm pressing back too hard, but maybe thats just the power of Ganon taking over my body. It also kind of feels weird to use the c-stick for this at all, but it's just something I'll have to get used to.

 

[SynikaL]

If you're getting Bair, it's because you're not finessing the C-Stick. That's why I mentioned "Back, gently". If you move it slightly diagonally Up or Down, you'll get Bair. The GC C-Stick can be very finicky.

If you can master using the C-Stick to ledge cancel in general, you'll have a slight technical edge over players that don't.


-Kimo

 

[Divinokage]

I wish I could practice things like that, I don't have melee lol.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

ok.

What are we sending me though?

 

[SynikaL]

Skillzzz.


-Kye

 

[TommyDerMeister]

oh ok.

cool?

 

[SleepyK]

I wish I could practice things like that, I don't have melee lol.

cube donation switch to... kage?

 

[Linguini]

So I've lost to 2 peaches at Spoc this weekend. Namely Vwins and Wife. Vwins almost always beats me because I guess he knows me too much and Wife.. well, he seems to be the Canadian slayer lol, he beat Vwins at RoM then me and Bam right after at another tourney. Lately, I sort of thought that peach mains know how to fight against Ganon now so... What stage would you ban against this character? What can you do against the turnip, it seems too good against Ganon and that Nair.. god.. lol. Other than that there's no problems. Both opponents were really close so I don't know if I got outplayed or is that matchup heavily stage dependant? Both matches I won were on Yoshis vs Wife and Kongo Jungle vs Vwins.

It's important that once peach gets a hit on you that you jump away from her general area and keep your pace, because thats where ganons beats peach.
Turnips shouldn't be a a big problem,you can catch them,or just simply time your aerials to hit them. Once again if your doing a double jump fair and peach hits you with a turnip that guarantees an automatic fair.

You can grab the nair slap slap nonsense,just get used to the timing, it leads into alot of free shieldgrabs. Good peaches usually edgeguard with the get up to dsmash off the ledge routine, which is tedious due to the fact that it turns you around, preventing you from down-b'ing. Hold down on the first two hits of the d-smash and you will go the other way, and land on the stage instead.

Stage choice against peach is, well........highly dependent on what your comfortable with. I personally hate small stages because peach is so good vs ganon in close range, although you ca get faster kills. Usually ban, mute city, and counter to dreamland; but that's just my favorite stage in every matchup.

For wavelanding I started using the c-stick and I recommend it, it's alot safer.

 

[Divinokage]

Cool, next tournament, if I face a peach i'll definitely ban Mute City, man that stage is gay lol.

 

[spider_sense]

Also a good counter pick incase they decide to ban Yoshi's Story is Green Greens. Also learn to grab Peaches. D-throws should always lead to a hit.

 

[spider_sense]

ok.

What are we sending me though?

(Sorry for D-post) haha He means PaperSoapCo. Who's name is Thomas Tipman.

 

[SynikaL]

Also a good counter pick incase they decide to ban Yoshi's Story is Green Greens. Also learn to grab Peaches. D-throws should always lead to a hit.

I actually think Peach can Nair out of any followup before 20% or so, which sucks cause it really screws with Ganon's potential to gain early momentum.


-Kye

 

[spider_sense]

I actually think Peach can Nair out of any followup before 20% or so, which sucks cause it really screws with Ganon's potential to gain early momentum.


-Kye

That's true, so that's why you shield. Especially if they're used to you jump and countering with an aerial. You can block the n-air for another grab. We need to play this week Kye.

 

[Magus420]

U-air combos at 0%. If they DI behind then dash turn and u-air behind you. That still combos at 0%. If you space yourself you can usually hit them again depending on their DI. If they were trying to n-air out of the throw you get to hit them again.

You can also d-throw u-smash to KO around 60-65ish on medium and lower ceiling stages if they don't DI (turn around and do it) or DI away (u-smash in place). Stops working around 70 or so. A little after then you can start d-throw f-airing. You can hit her with the f-air no matter how they DI.


EDIT: Another thing you can do for the get up to d-smash edgeguard is you can tech it if you hold down & towards + down on the c-stick and time a tech just before it hits you. Works great for up/side/down-b lag especially.

Here's an example from an old match of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s54BH7O7UY#t=1m45s

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

There's a lot of combos that rock Peach. IMO if you just let em hang you got this match.

On stage combat​

-At 0-low percents dthrow to angled up ftilt or jab work at 0%. Use uair if you've got a hit in already.
-When you block Peach's downsmash you get a free upB out of shield.
-Dair to usmash at 0% percent is great if she misses the DI.

Edge guarding​

-If she is going for the sweet spot reverse uair works always. Just wait for her to peak out and her umbrella losses its hitbox for a few frames. Worst comes to worst you trade hits but you shouldn't be.
-If its aggressive recovery I would try dairing next to her or the usual aerials.

Surviving Peach's edge guard​

-For Peach's who insist on edge guarding with dsmash hold up when recovering and prepare to tech. Holding up will cause you to wall jump tech. As soon as you get the tech hit back on the cstick and you'll clear the edge for a safer recovery.
-Dair is best to DI down. Don't get caught into that neutral.
-When coming from above be brave. Half azzing it by moving back is more likely to get you killed. It's Ganon, you can take a few hits.

A stage I like vs peach is Rainbow cruise. Small stage and the movement of the stage fvcks up Peach's float cancel game. Never played much on Brinstar but thinking about it that place sounds fvcked up.

SleepyK thanks but I don't feel right accepting the cube. How ever I checked online and saw Gamestop is selling cubes for $30 now so I'll check out Gamestop tomorrow and see if they have any used cubes. If not I'll buy yours off you. I'll let you know in my next post if I could use it. Thanks for looking out.

 

[Magus420]

Walljump teching Peach's d-smash gets you hit by the last hit though when they time it to hit you with the 1st hit. Sheik's d-smash does it too.

 

[SynikaL]

I've never seen that happen. In my experience, Ganon's Bair always beats it. You are invincible for a few frames post-Wall Tech.

-Kimosabae

 

[spider_sense]

I'm working really hard on teching consistently. Any advice?

Also what's the easiest way to do attacks out of shield? C-stick or actually pressing jump then use the control stick?

 

[Magus420]

You're only invincible for 14, so it ends before the last hit. If you get hit by frame 5 of her d-smash and you also b-air frame perfectly out of the walljump the b-air will hit first. If you get hit by frame 6 and you time the b-air frame perfectly, or if you get hit by frame 5 and b-air 1 frame late they trade. Other than that the last hit of her d-smash will hit you first if you walljump tech the 1st hit. Why not just normal wall tech which is invincible for 19 and then up-b her? Does a bit more damage as well.