Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[spider_sense]

Haha You're going to TO6 Ian? I didn't even know, but yeah man you murk your hardest with you know who. At least imo. You need to go super sayian on these ***** n!ggaz. You too Kage.

 

[-ACE-]

yeah...me and jim are NC's ganons.

This makes me kinda sad, haha. I need to do some smash traveling.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

I'm going to do everything in my power to be at Pound 5. It is going to be the best thing that ever happened to melee. Anyone else?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Haha You're going to TO6 Ian? I didn't even know, but yeah man you murk your hardest with you know who. At least imo. You need to go super sayian on these ***** n!ggaz. You too Kage.

I am going, and will preform my best!

 

[Bl@ckChris]

I'm so excited. I thought I'd meet other ganons at herb3 and I didn't. Now we're all going to TO6 and pound 5 it seems. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the rest of you apply things and put ur twist on ganon, and I hope ya'll like the way I play my ganon too.

 

[Palpi]

Pound 5 seems so far away but I still can't wait!

 

[omgwtfToph]

Just wanted to say, I came to this thread and read the early pages trying to find info on how to do Ganon's ledgedash more fluidly.

What I read instead was all of the pre- and post- RoM1 discussion with Kage's old non-technical Ganon, and all the drama behind Kage, Linguini and chaddd etc. people posting about "Who is the best Ganon?" and gems from EARLY 2009 like

I will do it and I don't care what you guys say. I'm gonna be the hero to take down Mango!

**** <3

I love Ganon :D

... um but yeah also is there like anywhere that lists how and when Ganon can horizontal(perfect) waveland >_> or can he pretty much just do it whenever, what's the deal? I looked a bit and didn't find anything :x specifically looking for info regarding platforms, and more importantly the ground you jumped off of (so like, perfect wavelanding around FD or something). already found some info on ledgedashing on page like, 20 hahaha

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, he can perfect waveland on FD. Search for a video involving renth being bored and you'll find that ganon can waveland horizntally whenever he wants.

I wanna get good enoug to waveland after hitting an up b oos, but I've only done it once. Ganon falls so slow after that move...

 

[Divinokage]

LOL, I became my words ftw. =P I don't really know how to a perfect Waveland but I always try to do it from the ledge, the input is relatively fast when you press down on the controller and then immediately jump and perform the wavedash. Everything comes with experience, you have to know how to use it and when.. since Ganon on the ledge is not super good.

 

[choknater]

kage and dusl are the only ganons ive lost to in tournament

ill get at u!!!!

 

[KirbyKaze]

chok you should have gone Falco

 

[Rykard]

Soooo i'm having a weird problem. Is it harder to ledge tech with Ganon than the rest of the cast? because for some reason i can't do it consistently with him but get it without fail with mario, fox, falco, c.falcon, etc. Is it just different timing or do i need to be DIing differently into the stage with him?

 

[Palpi]

Maybe because he is a bigger character or his up-b animation messes with your timing. I have no problem with it really though....not more than any other character.

 

[-ACE-]

The only thing I can think of is, 3/4 of the way through Ganon's up-b (or so), most of his body shifts backwards, so it's a lot easier to SDI and tech when you are up-B'ing backwards. But the same applies for falcon so I don't know if this really applies to you (since you say you have no problem teching with falcon). I would assume that it's just a problem with you timing your SDI with the attack that's hitting you, but if you can tech fine with other characters I'm not really sure. Maybe you're hitting it too soon. Sometimes I think that Ganon's up-B animation makes him seem bigger than he really is. Not sure what else to say on this one.

 

[Rykard]

haha well i appreciate the input guys. i'll try and figure it out

Also does anyone use ganon's nair to continue combos? I've been messing around with it a lot recently and found out that if your opponent is DIing as if they were being hit by your fair/bair (which would be up and towards the stage), the first kick of your nair will pop them straight up and since it auto cancels, you can usually follow it up with a fair or grab or another nair if you have platforms to work with. Just figured i'd share that since i haven't seen anyone really doing it

 

[Bl@ckChris]

so we have another kage...


I've been doing it too tho.

I also use upsmash a lot. To techchase through platforms and as one of my anti double lasers if they shoot the first high and come on stage. It's so fun to hit with the horizontal knockback. It's also good vs chars who like to recover by going over ganon but protect from a jumping fair, like peach with float over dair, and marth with rising fair's.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya Nair ftw after throws or aerials though I use it depending on characters and situations.

 

[Rykard]

it auto cancels if you full hop it onto platforms on yoshi's story and pokemon stadium which is always a plus. It works if you get a stomp or upthrow under a platform and follow up with the nair after the tech to hopefully continue a combo into a grab or something else. you can also auto cancel it on other stages with platforms after a double jump as well so it's pretty versatile in my opinion

 

[Divinokage]

I don't think you can properly chase them like that though through platforms.. the hitbox is rather small and you gotta be really close to the opponent so it might be safer to just techchase with upair or fair through platforms.. it's more garanteed and less risky.. instead of failing to punish.

 

[kupo15]

So there are two things I've been practicing that I want to mention might be very helpful for ganons to learn.
The first is the reverse up b ledge cancel. I know this is totally know but I found out that it can be fairly easy to do and is only something that can be done while offensive. As long as you up b at the right location depending on the stage and are near hugging the wall, as long as you hold back you automatically ledge cancel the lag. I can do walk off Fair on the second platform on YS, double jump back up b ledge cancel into an immediate fair, uair, fsmash jab, ect.

I know its a known fact but no one attempts it. Its not really slower than doing a sweetspot>ledge stuff edge guard and you have way more options than being on the edge.

The second thing that I'm going to play around with is down b from a dashdance. Its extremely hard to do but I think it can be an excellent surprise option...way safer than doing a surprise side b from DD.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ledge canceling up b is...rather hard to do. the only time i've done it on purpose and it was useful is when falcon is edgeguarding. if you land on the stage he knees you and if you go for the edge, you get edgehogged. but if you edge cancel, then they can go for the knee while you take the edge. this happened earlier this week, and it was sick.

but all in all, i got pretty lucky, even though i was going for it.

 

[kupo15]

Edge canceling actually is rather easy actually. Firstly atm I think its only worth trying when you are edge guarding or not in a defensive position. Try going to YS, walk off the ledge so your back is to the wall, up B when ganons upper back are around the middle of the wall which is about where the middle of that rocky thing juts out. Then hold towards the stage as soon as the "turn around up b" window goes away that way you are doing a backwards up b. And you should cancel it easily. Its all about where you start the up b seeing how the physics of ganons up b works out the left/right positioning for the cancel.

The worst that could happen is that you grab the ledge backwards. The best this is that you cancel all lag. Seeing how ganon can't sweet spot from below and he is in a better ledge teching position while backwards, I don't see how doing this would hurt.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

not bad, but...im never recovering straight from below. Only time I feel like I'd reverse up b from straight down is after I tech something and forget to techjump bair or up b.

still interesting though. I feel like there are significantly better iptions than edgeguarding with up b, and ganon is always in a defensive position if ur playing anyone good haha.

 

[kupo15]

Well, I wasn't saying you edge guard with the up b, the up b is used get you to a better position than the ledge. And what I meant about offensive position is like when you are edge guarding. Say you do a drop down uair, dj back reverse up b ledge cancel charged Fsmash or things like that if you know they won't go for the ledge.

What do you think about the down b from a DD?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i like the idea. i'm not sure if its safer though. i've got some players around my level coming here later today, so i'll try things of that sort.

it might be safer off shield (less cooldown time overall), but less safe on shield (side b pushes to a place thats unpunishable with a grab, but can often be hit by like a knee oos and such). side b usually has good combo potential, but for a quick kill at high percent, down b may be good in that regard.

 

[kupo15]

Yea, I agree with all like. I was thinking about the times when I would try for a surprise side b and it would get owned by Fox nair or bair but if it were a down b instead it would prob trade hits.

down b from a dd is extremely hard since you only have 1 frame to do it

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

Down b is just too good in general. It's a good surprise KO move and a lolworthy gimp

 

[kupo15]

You know whats a neat app to the down b? Could be practical since no one will ever see it coming until you do it. If you jump through a platform, you can Immediately go into the ground quake hitbox without any start up. There is no way they would tech that lol.

 

[TheGoat]

Down b is fun, and it's awesome to spike with, but be very careful with it, it has plenty of lag. I've watched a lot of videos (I think one was of kage vs m2k) and I've been seeing it get shielded and punished, so just beware fellow ganon players.

 

[Linguini]

Speaking of nair, ive actually been ****ing around with nair oos in tight shielding situations and it works pretty well against the taller characters lol.

Try it hahahah

 

[spider_sense]

Speaking of nair, ive actually been ****ing around with nair oos in tight shielding situations and it works pretty well against the taller characters lol.

Try it hahahah

You always do the goofiest stuff.(But mad effective) lol If you do stuff like that then dthrow > dtilt shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

oh, there are times when uair can't reach someone on the ground waitin for you to land. They space it so that it misses. A few times if done a nair instead, and it works well for a slightly longer distance, just enough to avoid a waiting fsmash.

 

[kupo15]

So I'm going to this region tourney in CT. Hopefully I can rep ganon pretty well.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hope you do well bro.

I'm starting to actually play fairly well. Some ppl know I was ranked in NC, but that was really a bunch of bs. I came very close to beating pp's little brother, twitch, who is legitimately 5th in our state. I did take the first match, but he pulled it out in the end. Me and jim will take over this state soon enough.

I'm goin strong to TO6

 

[spider_sense]

lol We should all set up a Ganon ditto tournament.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

that'd be pretty boss. There's quite a few of us going. I'm pretty interested.

 

[kupo15]

Gl TrueDarkness

You know what would be awesome to learn but its insanely hard? Run right into an immediate down b left or vise versa.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i have enough trouble duck canceling through to side b the opposite way.

insanely hard doesn't even begin to cover that lol.

 

[n0ne]

Lol i just figured out that while ganon is taunting, laser can go below u and go right past u.
I guess Dorf really can wreck ****** with his taunt too.

 

[Walt]

I figured that out back when I played with items in like '04 and used it to hover above red shells