Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Fortress | Sveet]

uhhh tink's marth is pretty schmexy too. beat kels a few weeks back in 2 sets.


edit:: oh and kels has been picking up marth. we did marth dittos in pools and he was really good with the character.

 

[Dorsey]

besides m2k...........nada

Well yeah, what you're saying is more right than not..but I don't understand why you have a strong stance behind it when you have relatively close sets with queen. I know you're better than him, i'm just saying though. Who owned hbk at rom2? I was a little surprised with his placing... it wouldn't surprise me if you or kage had a hand in it.

 

[spider_sense]

HBK seems like a pretty legit Marth. I dunno though, but Tipman always told me that he would turn my problems I had with Marth into issues. lol

 

[Life After Death]

linguini took out HBK out of the tourney it was 2-0

 

[spider_sense]

Linguini is unstoppable.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

HBK seems like a pretty legit Marth. I dunno though, but Tipman always told me that he would turn my problems I had with Marth into issues. lol

HBK must have a mental block with Ganon. If he doesn't three stock you, you'll just barely win at 200%+.

 

[Life After Death]

emilio took good care of HBK in lsosers. he's got match ups down well

 

[RestInPeace]

Kage, would you consider PKM a good Marth?

 

[Divinokage]

In general I would say, yes.

 

[Kyu Puff]

If you lightshield edgehog Marth, what's the best way to punish him if he goes for the stage?

Also I noticed if you auto-cancel an aerial onto a platform you can shield-drop through the platform really quickly. If someone is shielding on a lower platform you could maybe pressure them with n-air drop through u-air, or if they're lightshielding, n-air drop through f-air as they slide off. I'm only doing it on the battlefield platforms, from the ground onto the lower platforms and from the lower platforms onto the top platform. Would this be useful at all?

 

[Linguini]

I like to ledgehop grab or you can just ledgehop to bair him back off.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i've never really seen it anywhere, but is ganons dash grab useful at all? i don't even know how to do a dash grab, but i was wondering if it'd be useful to try to learn

secondly: for that ledgehop to bair, should i be landing and then bairing, or should you still be in the air, DIing toward the stage and bairing while landing on the stage?

 

[Renth]

i've never really seen it anywhere, but is ganons dash grab useful at all? i don't even know how to do a dash grab, but i was wondering if it'd be useful to try to learn

secondly: for that ledgehop to bair, should i be landing and then bairing, or should you still be in the air, DIing toward the stage and bairing while landing on the stage?

pretty certain ledge hop b air is impossible to land on the stage, someone told me d air was impossible but you can .. it just has no hitbox and it looks stupid... but ya land on stage then b air

 

[Bl@ckChris]

thanks renth. i find myself trying to do a lot of apparently impossible ganon stuff. you dont even know how many times i've ledgehopped dair'd thinking i was about to do something great and expert ganonlike, only to have no hitbox, and just hit by whatever spacie recovery i was about to wreck. glad to know it's not just my tech skill failing...that just don't work.

is it actually possible to ledgehop uair to the stage to the degree that it covers a sweetspot? though i guess if they needed to sweetspot...you could just stay on the ledge

 

[TresChikon]

I believe a ledgehop u-air's hitbox would be quick enough to cover the front, but I doubt it would be able to extend all the way back in order to hit a recovery in time.

What exactly are you trying to edgeguard anyways?

In certain situations, it would do you better to sit onstage and wait. Like against a spacies sometimes.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Ledgehop Uair is absolutely the most foolproof edgeguard in my opinion. It covers a HUGE range, and you are invincible for the most of it as long as you go from infinite ledgehop regrabbing straight into the attack. If a spacey aims to high for you to hit them, you still have plenty of time to hit them back off the stage.

Marth can't really get around this one unless he's at a low percent and manages to sweetspot the ledge right after you hit him.

I'm not sure if this would work, but what if you went straight into a light shield hog after ledgehopping the Uair? As long as you don't go too far into the stage, all you'd have to do is hold Z and towards the ledge right after the l-cancel to set up your beast edgeguard.

Gonna see about getting vid proof on that one this weekend.

 

[TresChikon]

You can regrab after a u-air? Wow, I'm horribly misinformed then, my mistake, disregard what I said.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i guess i was thinking like a spacie trying to upB recover straight up and i'm on the ledge. i guess it would be best to just get on the stage and if they're in range to recover high enough, downward ftilt or just tipman from the stage. oftentimes i don't think fast enough for that, so i was just wondering if you could just reverse up air from the ledge as you get on the stage.

@clue, i really like that idea. i'm really new but i sort of envision the uair capturing one timing of a marth upB, but if that marth decides to side B stall to avoid that and try to sweetspot, then that would get broken down by the lightshield.

 

[ETWIST51294]

You can regrab after a u-air? Wow, I'm horribly misinformed then, my mistake, disregard what I said.

Yea, you literally have to jump and up air at the same time. It's easy to make a mistake by doing it though...

 

[RestInPeace]

Recently, I've stopped doing the lightshield edgeguard unless it works 100%. Before, I would do it, wait for them to get on, and just ledge hop -> grab. DThrows lead to a guaranteed hit, so that's why I did it. But recently, I just started doing angled down FTilts upon reaction time. There's no guessing involved. When he uses his UpB, just use your Ftilt. Just make sure that you're spaced so that you don't get hit by his UpB if he's wall-hugging his way up.

@ Kyu Puff: How do you do the shield drop? I've done it several times, and I've seen videos of it (Phanna's too good), but I'm not sure of the specifics. Mind informing me?

 

[Kyu Puff]

You just shield and angle the control stick down slightly. On battlefield you can fulljump b-air/n-air/u-air onto the lower platform and shield drop through to any other aerial quickly. From the lower platforms you can do the same thing onto the top platform, and from there you can shield-drop b-air and double-jump before you hit the ground (lets you do another aerial or waveland onto a platform). You can waveland into an autocancel b-air from the top to the lower platform into shield-drop. Again I don't know if it's worth learning, it's just a slightly faster way to do situational aerials.

 

[Magus420]

Why shield drop when I would think you could just walk->drop through (Isai drop) as fast or faster and is much easier without a risk of spotdodging? Shield drop seems more like something for when you're already shielding on a platform to begin with.

 

[Kyu Puff]

For one thing I don't know the frame difference between them. Shield drop isn't too hard imo, the only mistake I make is sometimes inputting down too early (so I end up shielding). I'll try out the isai drop though.

 

[RestInPeace]

Does someone want to get into the specifics of how to do these drops? I've seen them, and heard of them, but never really got the details.

Kyu Puff: You said that you just angle down slightly. Do you mean tilt the stick directly down slightly, or do you mean tilt it just slightly lower than horizontal? And I thought you had to do it right when the shield is popping up? I assume Isai drop is done the same way, minus the shield?

 

[TresChikon]

i guess i was thinking like a spacie trying to upB recover straight up and i'm on the ledge. i guess it would be best to just get on the stage and if they're in range to recover high enough, downward ftilt or just tipman from the stage. oftentimes i don't think fast enough for that, so i was just wondering if you could just reverse up air from the ledge as you get on the stage.

Depending on the conditions, it would be more beneficial to stay onstage when the spacie is:

1) Unable to do that ledgecanceled firefox thing when they go downwards.

2) Able to land onstage with a firefox

When they're in that position, you should stage on stage and try to react to what he's doing.

If he tries to sweetspot, then tipman or f-tilt.

If he goes for the stage, space the firefox and try to hit him out of his descent rather than out of the firefox since the timing and angle is much easier anyways. If you can hit him out of the firefox easily, then more power to you. Sometimes I fail and miss the easy edgeguard.

If you go on the ledge, you'd actually be giving him a lot more options since it hinders the range you can cover. So just stay on stage and react, there's actually more time than you think.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Recently, I've stopped doing the lightshield edgeguard unless it works 100%. Before, I would do it, wait for them to get on, and just ledge hop -> grab. DThrows lead to a guaranteed hit, so that's why I did it. But recently, I just started doing angled down FTilts upon reaction time. There's no guessing involved. When he uses his UpB, just use your Ftilt. Just make sure that you're spaced so that you don't get hit by his UpB if he's wall-hugging his way up.

@ Kyu Puff: How do you do the shield drop? I've done it several times, and I've seen videos of it (Phanna's too good), but I'm not sure of the specifics. Mind informing me?

i guess thats a good concept, i guess for me, since everyone i play seems to be like so much better than me, i feel like if i ever tried to space a downward ftilt, they'd tech the stage and bair me or something.

and i've never heard of this shield drop. i still don't understsand this isai drop stuff either. i've always just kinda...held down whenever i wanted to go through. but sometimes it doesn't work quite as fast as i'd like, so if i could get a good explanations of these apparent other drops, it seems like good information

 

[Meme]

Well, i'm getting ready for a big tourney, and it's been a while since I posted around here.
d >_>b

I've been wondering for some time about...

Which CP Stages are good for Ganon (generally or...), specifically going against, Marth, spacies, and Falcon?

And what are the best throwing setups against C. Falcon (either at low or mid percentages)? Since I don't have much exp. with this match-up.

 

[Magus420]

Normal landing lag (you get this animation when an aerial autocancels as well) is a 30 frame animation with an interrupt on either 3 (Pichu), 5 (everyone else), 6 (Ganon/DK), 7 (Bowser), so Ganon has a landing lag of 5 normally before he can act out of it.

You can't interrupt the landing animation with the 'Pass'/platform drop through action, which is where the Isai drop comes in. If you just try to press down normally you won't be able to for the full 30. 'Isai drop' is simply interrupting the landing with a walk and then immediately doing the platform drop out of the walk. IIRC the 'Pass' action takes 4, so for Ganon the Isai drop would take 10 (5 landing + 1 walk + 4 drop) compared to the normal 34 (30 landing + 4 drop).

If you get the aerial's landing lag or airdodge onto the platform an Isai drop won't do anything since there isn't an interrupt on those landings, and you'd be able to walk/drop through out of them at the same point anyway.

A perfect shield drop should be the same as an Isai drop, but instead of interrupting with a walk you're interrupting with shield and then dropping through OoS. Dropping through out of a walk is really hard to mess up compared to OoS though when trying to do it at maximum speed.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

thanks a ton magus. so i take it the easiest way to do this would be to do a quarter circle from left/right to down once you get on the platform with regular landing lag, right?

 

[Magus420]

Yeah. You probably want to press->hold the left/right right before you land or earlier though so you don't trigger a dash by mistake since you can't drop through during that.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, i was thinking that too. almost like trying to do a tilt.

that just made me think though, can you dash out of the landing lag animation, or only walk? i'm just wondering if it'd be faster to auto-cancel->walk->dash than to just auto-cancel->dash.

 

[-ACE-]

You can dash, but you don't want to, which is why Magus said to hold left/right before you land so you won't accidentally dash while trying to walk immediately.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, i was just thinking for autocancels on the stage floor if a dash still happens after the 6 frames or if you'd have to wait the full 30 and then the dash would take effect. i'm still not good enough for my hands to do what my mind thinks, but i was thinking mostly for autocanceled retreating bairs, how fast i would be able to start the dash after landing, to maybe (like in a year once i'm good) pivot into an ftilt or something.

 

[studly]

Normal landing lag (you get this animation when an aerial autocancels as well) is a 30 frame animation with an interrupt on either 3 (Pichu), 5 (everyone else), 6 (Ganon/DK), 7 (Bowser), so Ganon has a landing lag of 5 normally before he can act out of it.

You can't interrupt the landing animation with the 'Pass'/platform drop through action, which is where the Isai drop comes in. If you just try to press down normally you won't be able to for the full 30. 'Isai drop' is simply interrupting the landing with a walk and then immediately doing the platform drop out of the walk. IIRC the 'Pass' action takes 4, so for Ganon the Isai drop would take 10 (5 landing + 1 walk + 4 drop) compared to the normal 34 (30 landing + 4 drop).

If you get the aerial's landing lag or airdodge onto the platform an Isai drop won't do anything since there isn't an interrupt on those landings, and you'd be able to walk/drop through out of them at the same point anyway.

A perfect shield drop should be the same as an Isai drop, but instead of interrupting with a walk you're interrupting with shield and then dropping through OoS. Dropping through out of a walk is really hard to mess up compared to OoS though when trying to do it at maximum speed.

i was just wondering how u guys were dropping through so easily.. i come here and its as if you read my mind.. thanks magus.. good ****!!

 

[Doromac]

How should I approach a Peach player. I mioght need the knowledge in the near future.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Thanks Magus. That does seem a bit easier, although the timing is more ambiguous. With the shield drop, the shield faintly popping up tells me to keep doing what I'm doing, but there are no cues like that with the isai drop.

 

[Renth]

How should I approach a Peach player. I mioght need the knowledge in the near future.

With the pawwunchh

 

[Dogysamich]

... Ya know, I'm kinda sad.

I havent been in here for a bit, and completely expected to come back and see s*** blowing up, people being mad, and the most random bs happening.

But everybody's all being intelligent and helpful and whatnot.

Good job people! Keep it up


__

Oh, and approaching peach is like, a lil-by-lil thing, because you dont want to run slam into her and wind up shielding something, but you also dont want to NOT go in and have her just throwing turnips.

You wanna keep yourself spaced. Spaced paaaaaaawnch (like renth said). It's pretty good.

I dont really play ganon, but like, that what I see when I see ganon playing against punching peach.
__

-walks off whistling-

 

[Bl@ckChris]

against spacies (mostly fox), is runoff double jump uair a good edgeguard, or a habit i just need to toss? doing it against a falco has produced often hazardous results, with me getting phantasm meteored (and not reacting in time). against fox though, it's been useful if i can't get there in time to wavedash to set up tipman edgeguard.

should i just down-cancel my run and try to ftilt?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

can't you just tipman any sideb attempt and edgehog/bair/tipman if they firefox? seems like the most effective and easy edgeguard.