RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Was that doubt I hear?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
you're horribly lacking experience? no no, my good sir. I am horribly lacking in experience. lol as you can see by my join date, i've been in the scene for a little less than 2 months now lol.
but for what its worth, thanks to these ganon boards, i've gotten better fast.
now that i'm thinking good enough to techchase and at least make guesses (which are often right, i've found), i'm wondering what moves are best for techchases. i've seen on these boards that wizard foot and side b work as tech chases, but i never find ways to use them; my only tech chase is fair. any advice?
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
hey chris i used to live in greensboro. i went to kernoodle middle school (i was in 6th grade when i moved). happen to know that area?
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
unfortunately no, i'm really new here. i'm from wilmington, but i go to UNC-Greensboro.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Yes, =P.. I've already explained that the only way for me to be truly confident is if I train hard enough in real life and in smash. But I am lacking the real life confidence so I doubt myself a lot and 2nd guess myself sometimes. But that's not new to me.
My warrior side is a side I want to achieve.. and I'm trying really hard to never forget this dream and I try to practice it everyday which is why I may sound epic on the boards. It's more than just cutting or crushing people lol. It's like.. a higher self so to speak or it could be someone I look up to as well.. like an image of a greater self if that's possible? =P
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
kage you're my hero
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
i guess one, i'd sort of like to repost my techchase question: what's good to techchase with? i use fair basically all the time, but how do side B and wizards foot work as techchases? are they actually harder, or am i just timing them wrong?
also, the more i play against marths the more i realize i have no idea how to edgeguard them. if i go out to them, i just get hit with either fair or side b, and then i just have to retreat back to the stage. if i stay, i don't have the timing to perfect tipman their sweetspot. i saw chaddd constantly ledge sliding off as a mindgame in a match, but i don't understand how/why that would work. any help is appreciated
also, the more i play against marths the more i realize i have no idea how to edgeguard them. if i go out to them, i just get hit with either fair or side b, and then i just have to retreat back to the stage. if i stay, i don't have the timing to perfect tipman their sweetspot. i saw chaddd constantly ledge sliding off as a mindgame in a match, but i don't understand how/why that would work. any help is appreciated
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Fair is good, B moves are slower, so do them earlier. Dair gives you another techchase at lower percents.
Use the Marth killer, if he lands onstage, hit his laggy butt off.
If he wastes his DJ, dropzone bair or reverse-uair. If he has it, he might take you down with him or something. Make sure you make use of ledge-invincibility.
I'm guessing Chaddd was just timing something and by doing that, the Marth couldn't really tell when he was going to strike. Kind of like ledge DD. I dunno.
Use the Marth killer, if he lands onstage, hit his laggy butt off.
If he wastes his DJ, dropzone bair or reverse-uair. If he has it, he might take you down with him or something. Make sure you make use of ledge-invincibility.
I'm guessing Chaddd was just timing something and by doing that, the Marth couldn't really tell when he was going to strike. Kind of like ledge DD. I dunno.
studly
Smash Ace
I allways tech chase with Fair when I think it might hit... its got the % and it has Knock back but mostly because ganon looks like a ****ing bad *** doing it
and as far as edge gaurding Marth.. learn the marth killer.
and as far as edge gaurding Marth.. learn the marth killer.
Linguini
Smash Master
check out the guide ACE just posted,it's great and will pretty much cover everyone's techase questions.
On another note Tipman's ledgehop tech is ****ing beastly! Once tippy has got his experience back you best believe he's going to be ****** face, that man is a robot, he doesn't fvck up techs.
Ever.
On another note Tipman's ledgehop tech is ****ing beastly! Once tippy has got his experience back you best believe he's going to be ****** face, that man is a robot, he doesn't fvck up techs.
Ever.
Renth
Smash Hero
As much as I hate on you Kage that **** was impressive again congratulations. Watching your live stream matches and hearing the results
Guini, when i heard you and hax beat lucky and mango it became my away message for awhile haha.
Mad love.
Guini, when i heard you and hax beat lucky and mango it became my away message for awhile haha.
Mad love.
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Kage you are the man. Grats and thanks for all the dittos. You were beasting me badly but I came back the next day. Next time you're in the states $20 or $50 mm?
Guini lawl. What you saw was easy to do man, just try it and you'll get it down in a few tries. Are you still in NY and till when?
Renth and Chaddd you guys needed to be there. We could have done Ganon crew battles, lol.
Guini lawl. What you saw was easy to do man, just try it and you'll get it down in a few tries. Are you still in NY and till when?
Renth and Chaddd you guys needed to be there. We could have done Ganon crew battles, lol.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I just had the craziest idea... a crew battle.
All the best Ganons (in attendance) vs a region
It would be too good
All the best Ganons (in attendance) vs a region
It would be too good
spider_sense
Smash Champion
I'm down. lol
Renth
Smash Hero
I'm dooownnnn.
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
I'm down
inb4 you're not invited
inb4 you're not invited
spider_sense
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZTaYGHNCS8
Yo can anybody watch that vid and critique any mistakes I made in this match-up? This is seriously one of my hardest and any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Yo can anybody watch that vid and critique any mistakes I made in this match-up? This is seriously one of my hardest and any advice would be greatly appreciated.
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
First match, I would say you need to crouch cancel more. Also, there isn't really a good time to roll against Marth, so I'm assuming that was an accident. You DI-ed towards him during his combos fair combos, which was bad...
Second match, loved the walltechjump to Bair. I used to do that but for some reason I always f*** it up now. Overall it's obvious you know how to control Ganon.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
I'm a scrub, but this is what I noticed.
On platforms, lightshield or shift your shield downwards. Its too easy to shield poke Ganon otherwise.
If you're doing the lightshield trick to kill Marth at the edge, but he's able to Up B onto the stage, I think you're supposed to let him. You can ledge dash -> grab -> aerials that might kill at high %. At mid percent, you can Dthrow -> SH Bair to hit him out if he DIs back, or SH Uair if he DIs away, and DJ waveland onto the platform right above you. Its so good, because you can normally land another Uair doing this (I need to see more Ganons do this).
Also from my (lol limited, mostly against Europhoria) experience, if you're on top of a platform and Marth is under, don't try to hit him unless he does something stupid and laggy and you're not already in shield. OoS is too slow to punish anything, and Marth is gay, and can crouch/WD to dodge any attacks, letting him FSmash you in your lag. Just find a way down, that's what I've been told, but I'm terrible at it.
On platforms, lightshield or shift your shield downwards. Its too easy to shield poke Ganon otherwise.
If you're doing the lightshield trick to kill Marth at the edge, but he's able to Up B onto the stage, I think you're supposed to let him. You can ledge dash -> grab -> aerials that might kill at high %. At mid percent, you can Dthrow -> SH Bair to hit him out if he DIs back, or SH Uair if he DIs away, and DJ waveland onto the platform right above you. Its so good, because you can normally land another Uair doing this (I need to see more Ganons do this).
Also from my (lol limited, mostly against Europhoria) experience, if you're on top of a platform and Marth is under, don't try to hit him unless he does something stupid and laggy and you're not already in shield. OoS is too slow to punish anything, and Marth is gay, and can crouch/WD to dodge any attacks, letting him FSmash you in your lag. Just find a way down, that's what I've been told, but I'm terrible at it.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I watched your first match. I think your too grounded. You should work on using the top middle platform and wavelanding to falling through aerials. to cause Marth to try to space properly under you. If they are camping under platforms this can be odd for them to deal with as your bair/dair/upair/fair all have great big hitboxes that linger a bit more than Marth's do.
Your spacing all wrong in this matchup it seems sometimes. You should be aiming your hitboxes where Marth's sword will be not where Marth is. Ganon win's if you clang and you risk a lot by trying to get too close to Marth since if he hits you instead it's a lot harder to DI out of combos.
Tech chasing it doesn't matter how close you are so you did fine with occasionally fairing right on top of his tech spot.
Your real issues are your approach. Ganon can not win this matchup just doing straight up running and retreating fairs. Trust in the platforms to give you better approaching angles.
The reason I like using the platforms (wavelanding and dropping through to aerials, not wavelanding off) is they give you a bit more height when Marth tries to combo you. A lot of times you will either clang if they try to aerial you, or if they hit because of how they have to move to hit you, you can often just smash DI or DI onto platforms or just upair/bair them right after they hit you.
Use ftilt if when your spacing you see them approach but jab will be too short.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
I was never able to put this into words. Thanks.
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Jason I agree with Arc's post for the most part. Remember that spaced bair is your best approach and keep trying to DI away at low%, especially when Marth is in the air (just watch out for the fsmash).
Nice vids clue. Chaingrab at the end of first match was legit.
Nice vids clue. Chaingrab at the end of first match was legit.
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
Too bad I didn't finish that chaingrab right.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Yeah they can DI the uthrow away and be fine at high% like that.
I like to take Falco up to about 120-140 and either bair or down-b depending on DI. At med% dthrow to ftilt is pretty good, especially if you can use it to get Falco offstage.
I like to take Falco up to about 120-140 and either bair or down-b depending on DI. At med% dthrow to ftilt is pretty good, especially if you can use it to get Falco offstage.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
I love your Ganon. It looks a lot like mine, except I don't use the platforms nearly as well as you do, and your movement is much more effective (with a purpose, always). Learned tons watching it, thanks for the link.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
being a really new, though competitive ganon seems to allow me to come up with vague questions with a high potential for really good answers that can really raise my level. My next such question is similar to my last techchasing question which inspired ACE to make that thread...
What moves are good to make it hard for people to get back onto the stage once they've grabbed the ledge? and are there any moves that cover many; multiple options, or should it be a reaction based thing?
i know this is vague, and is very character dependent, as far as dealling with spacie stalls, falco double lasers, marth's nair as he gets on, and the list continues. maybe i'm hoping to inspire some sort of ganon "dont let *****es get back on your stage" thread.
as always, any advice is useful and welcome.
btw, i'm hoping to get to go to a big tournament to meet a lot of you, so you can see what i've done with your advice. since i'm on a really steep learning curve for now (as in, getting a ton better every time i play/ask a question) vids right now are sort of irrelevant. money's become complicated for pound, but if any of you come for HERB 3, i live in greensboro: i can't miss it.
What moves are good to make it hard for people to get back onto the stage once they've grabbed the ledge? and are there any moves that cover many; multiple options, or should it be a reaction based thing?
i know this is vague, and is very character dependent, as far as dealling with spacie stalls, falco double lasers, marth's nair as he gets on, and the list continues. maybe i'm hoping to inspire some sort of ganon "dont let *****es get back on your stage" thread.
as always, any advice is useful and welcome.
btw, i'm hoping to get to go to a big tournament to meet a lot of you, so you can see what i've done with your advice. since i'm on a really steep learning curve for now (as in, getting a ton better every time i play/ask a question) vids right now are sort of irrelevant. money's become complicated for pound, but if any of you come for HERB 3, i live in greensboro: i can't miss it.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Well the reverse up air (Tipman spike) covers a variety of edge guarding most, if not all the characters recovery in smash.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Spaced bair is good for covering ledgehop, standard getup, and getup attack. Bair has insane priority when fully spaced and the hitbox's long duration makes timing less of an issue (not to mention its power). Fair can be used as well but requires more precise timing.
Now you just have to trick them into thinking it's safe to use one of these options :>
Edit: the reason I don't like uair as much in this case (when they already have the ledge) is if the uair doesn't hit you're really close to the edge and thus easily punished.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
ah, ok. the best way to do that usually is to drop down from a platform right? but you have to bring the bair out fast or else the hitbox doesn't come out/they have time to react
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Sure, the drop-through helps a good bit. You can also throw in a wavedash, a dash dance or a sh waveland before you bair also. Just mix it up.
Edit: lots of good bair edge pressure in this match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lbFyrCH7Xo
Edit: lots of good bair edge pressure in this match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lbFyrCH7Xo
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ya it's kinda good vs Sheik. =P
FunkMaster
Smash Journeyman
that's not sheik, that's plank!
anyway. what are ganon's match ups?
for the characters that matter. like mox malco sheik marf peach puff falco etc.
he doesn't have any worse then 60-40 does he? if he doesn't I might main him.
anyway. what are ganon's match ups?
for the characters that matter. like mox malco sheik marf peach puff falco etc.
he doesn't have any worse then 60-40 does he? if he doesn't I might main him.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Mmm spacies are probably either 55-45 or 60-40.. Sheik = 60-40 or 65-35 I think. Marth = even (Apparently anyway lol), Peach = Even. Falcon is 60-40 for Falcon. The rest of the cast gets pretty much ***** by Ganon otherwise.
FunkMaster
Smash Journeyman
SICK!
thanks bro!
you would think ganon would be more like high tier! he has like better
match ups then falcon! they even seem to share the same worst match up!
thanks bro!
you would think ganon would be more like high tier! he has like better
match ups then falcon! they even seem to share the same worst match up!
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Pretty much, he is high tier! =D
TommyDerMeister
Smash Lord
I still need some advice vs. Peach. It's the matchup i do the worst in/have the most trouble with. I need to get vids up.
Linguini
Smash Master
Nahh, falcon is better. He has better matchups vs spacies and sheik. Samus and Doc are both above ganon on the tier list IMO. Ganon is a good character tho.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Peaches are afraid of Ganons, space out everything using a combination of up-angled to f-tilts whenever she decides to float and whenever she comes in close. Also make sure you learn how to catch turnips and do not hesitate to throw them back. Oh and learn to shield grab, and down throw Peach. Because no matter what happens; she'll always have to take a hit. (DI's in front = Fair, DI's behind = bair, and DI's straight up =up smash or uair) Edge guarding Peach is a bit tricky, but it's not unbearably hard. Just watch for when she's in her float, and use your jump and dair or bair her, if she's underneath the stage and she's in her fair either catch her with a dair or reverse uair (uair is harder to hit her because her umbrella has ******** priority, so aim for her boobs with Ganon's feet)