• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

How To Make Falcon Higher on the Tier List

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Right now, we see the boards for Falcon making many new discoveries and imrpoving his metagame by a large amount, making it so Falcon has many true and pseudo combos to completely screw with opponents.

However, as great as all this work is, it still doesn't address some of the true issues with Falcon right now. Unlike Melee, many of Falcon's combos aren't setup by good approaches, and so they are very hard to setup. Much of his game works on a jab grab or Falcon Kick approach, both of which as Falcon aren't very effective.

SHADing works fairly well as Falcon, unfortunately, it also leaves you vulnerable to the grab, which is something that is fairly common for Falcon. He can grabbed to easily and his approaches on most characters are fairly poor atm.

However, someone with Falcon's speed, despite his poor hitboxes, should be able to use that speed to create better approaches. I am calling on users like Face, Wogrim, and ToKnee to work more so on finding a solid approach for Falcon. And it also comes with a great way to both test and learn new approaches.

Many new techniques and very useful information in Melee were discovered by a debugger, which has recently been found in Brawl. It is called the pause debugger, and it allows you truly to test new combinations at frame perfect results, which can then be used at normal speed.

Here is the code:
Code:
Debug Pause:-(GCC)
80000000 805B8A08
0402E5AC 8819000B
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 EFFF1000
86410000 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 00FF0000
12000002 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 FFEF0010
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 FF000000
12000002 00000100
E2000002 00000000

Press Start to freeze the game(don't worry, the music and sounds are unaffected).
Press Z to step through frame by frame.
Press Start again to unfreeze the game.
(The new Start command is X+D^)

Button Modifier:
041E6CD8 4BE1C128
041E6D1C 4BE1C114
06002E00 00000068
9421FF80 BC410008
7CE4402E 7CE738F8
7CE73039 3864FFC0
7CE3412E 7CC4412E
B8410008 38210080
60000000 481E3EB0
9421FF80 BC410008
7C03202E 3DC01000
7DCE70F8 7C007039
740E0408 3DE00408
7C0E7800 40820008
64001000 B8410008
38210080 481E3EBC

Must be used with the Debug Pause Code.
If we find a solid consistent approach for Falcon that is much less punishable by characters like Marth and Metaknight or even characters like Bowser, there is no doubt in my mind Captain Falcon will pass Ganondorf on the tier list. So far, from what I have seen, Falcon has better tournament results than 6 other characters if you look solely at wins, where the true results matter. This means that despite bad matchups with some other characters, Falcon with almost no good approach at the moment can do better than 6 other characters on the roster. This is because of his ability to punish people once he gets a hit. Now think of his ability if he can consistently get a hit.

You must have hacked your Wii to do this, if you would like to use the debugger mode and want to hack your Wii, search here or post me a visitor message.
 

Ninjaneos

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
50
Location
You stalker....
yeah i've noticed many people trying to make falcon better but he's generally the same as ganon, i dont think he'll go up that much on the next tier list
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
I learned something recently: Falcon Kick is the most horrific depressing attack ever and should be used VERY sparingly.
Welcome to April/March last year lol

Well, at least, grounded Falcon Kick is like that.


At least an Aerial Falcon Kick doesn't send you flying with your opponent so they can just F-air you when they get out of hitstun.

His dashes/foxtrot/dashdance can be used to space and counter approaches with cooler things like grabs.

._.; but I don't main Falcon, don't take my suggestions to heart.
 

Player-3

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
8,994
Location
Georgia
Welcome to April/March last year lol

Well, at least, grounded Falcon Kick is like that.


At least an Aerial Falcon Kick doesn't send you flying with your opponent so they can just F-air you when they get out of hitstun.

His dashes/foxtrot/dashdance can be used to space and counter approaches with cooler things like grabs.

._.; but I don't main Falcon, don't take my suggestions to heart.
you beat my falcon in the falcon ditto MM... then i beat you every other time >:

hes got a good falcon gaiz, take his suggestions to heart
;D
 

trev94

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
425
i dont know why everone thinks ganno and CF are soo bad. I think they are good
 

Player-3

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
8,994
Location
Georgia
may be i like them. maybe your to big of a *******.:)
oh come on man i know you dont post much, but you have to know im a troll

i like them too, but they honestly are not good characters

and i call everyone stupid, so no offense done there


id hack my wii... if i had one
 

UzakiuzuG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
477
Location
Louisville,Ky
What Tenki said "Welcome to April/March last year lol Well, at least, grounded Falcon Kick is like that."
Has anyone else notice how fast the year has gone by?
 

Panix

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
583
Location
NJ, Barnegat
I think a solid to approach is run back and forth and wait for a opportunity to hit a jab. lol
 

Terios the Hedgehog

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
6,452
Location
Shenandoah, PA
Couldn't you just treat Falcon like he HAS no approaches? His baiting ability isn't as good as Sonics but he should be able to force attacks and counterattack.
 

E.G.G.M.A.N.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
301
I don't plan to ever hack my Wii.

Edit:




Learn the difference between your and you're
Why not? Hacks are fun. Some of the most entertaining times I've ever had with ssbm were with hacks. haven't tried Brawl + yet.
 

t3h n00b

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
961
Location
Laurel, Maryland
No offense- I know this thread was made to try to improve Falcon, but that's what's happening already. Knee posts new combos or findings frequently. A lot of approaches have been talked about (Falcon Kick=no), and I don't see the jab as much of an approach, more of a defensive thing, but maybe that's just me. You are in the Falcon boards a fair amount of time, but you didn't know about the FF uair approach that was old news to some players, and is currently being discussed in the Q&A thread right now. I've lurked in other boards and in my opinion, the Falcon boards come up with the most *good* ideas. Most people in here don't care a whole lot how Falcon is on the tier list. The leaders of this board try to come up with new things that help improve his metagame, whether they are known by those who don't main Falcon or not.
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
No offense- I know this thread was made to try to improve Falcon, but that's what's happening already. Knee posts new combos or findings frequently. A lot of approaches have been talked about (Falcon Kick=no), and I don't see the jab as much of an approach, more of a defensive thing, but maybe that's just me. You are in the Falcon boards a fair amount of time, but you didn't know about the FF uair approach that was old news to some players, and is currently being discussed in the Q&A thread right now. I've lurked in other boards and in my opinion, the Falcon boards come up with the most *good* ideas. Most people in here don't care a whole lot how Falcon is on the tier list. The leaders of this board try to come up with new things that help improve his metagame, whether they are known by those who don't main Falcon or not.
Look. You are way out of date with these boards. Knee just left. Combos aren't all that useful right now, we need new and creative approaches. Your not ever going to win many tournaments if you cannot approach a Metaknight or Marth period. You may be able to combo them, but without the initial hit, say goodbye. This is why we should be working on this more so. And I like what the Falcon boards are doing but they are not even close to getting the most good new ideas.
 

t3h n00b

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
961
Location
Laurel, Maryland
Look. You are way out of date with these boards. Knee just left. Combos aren't all that useful right now, we need new and creative approaches. Your not ever going to win many tournaments if you cannot approach a Metaknight or Marth period. You may be able to combo them, but without the initial hit, say goodbye. This is why we should be working on this more so. And I like what the Falcon boards are doing but they are not even close to getting the most good new ideas.
Knee has left before. Hopefully he will be back again, I think he will, and even if he doesn't come back, look at the threads- there have been many useful findings within the past few days. You say "we" then you say "Falcon boards". By all means, help find useful creative approaches. But telling everyone else to do it doesn't make any sense. Combos do exist in Brawl obviously, but true combos are very rare in matches. Look at a Rebaz match. Skill? Yes. Combos? No. Metaknight and Marth are really tough matchups for Falcon. Hopefully there will be advances in Falcon's metagame, but it's not like there's going to be this "initial hit" that combos someone to death. Falcon's approaches aren't great, but you can get the "initial hit". It's just tougher than other characters. If you say that the Falcon boards aren't close to getting the most good new ideas, then find some to back your point up.

On the topic of approaches, yes, Falcon's are bad. The "captain corridor" is fairly effective, and rared uairs as well. Good Falcon players (no, I never claimed to be one, I just claimed to be active on the Falcon boards) use decent approaches. But citing Falcon Kick as a viable approach shows to me that you are kind of out of date on the boards.
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Knee has left before. Hopefully he will be back again, I think he will, and even if he doesn't come back, look at the threads- there have been many useful findings within the past few days. You say "we" then you say "Falcon boards". By all means, help find useful creative approaches. But telling everyone else to do it doesn't make any sense. Combos do exist in Brawl obviously, but true combos are very rare in matches. Look at a Rebaz match. Skill? Yes. Combos? No. Metaknight and Marth are really tough matchups for Falcon. Hopefully there will be advances in Falcon's metagame, but it's not like there's going to be this "initial hit" that combos someone to death. Falcon's approaches aren't great, but you can get the "initial hit". It's just tougher than other characters. If you say that the Falcon boards aren't close to getting the most good new ideas, then find some to back your point up.

On the topic of approaches, yes, Falcon's are bad. The "captain corridor" is fairly effective, and rared uairs as well. Good Falcon players (no, I never claimed to be one, I just claimed to be active on the Falcon boards) use decent approaches. But citing Falcon Kick as a viable approach shows to me that you are kind of out of date on the boards.
Yeah I know but I am trying to get the Falcon boards to shift focus. Why I am not including myself is because I am in the midst of working with this for Jigglypuff, and if you guys want to wait like 2 weeks, I will be helping.
 

Ayaz18

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
2,052
Location
Canada, ON, St. catharines
first thing: Stop living in the past (no need to talk about knee, you had your time to voice your opinion......that time is over)

Second thing: getback on topic

Third thing: FF Nair CAN shield poke but you need to "master" it to use it on comand

Fourth thing: Falcon connot rely on a solid approach, start using more mindgames. Learn to dash-dance, pivot, PWG, Boost PWG to mix up HOW you approach rather than WHAT you approach with


catch my drift?
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Look, all I am saying is that if Falcon has a more consistent solid approach so when he mindgames it, it is more effective will only improve Falcon. And that is what is hurting Falcon a lot. Just saying.
 

Noodlehead

Smash Lord
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,090
Location
Houston,TX
Grab approaches/baits?

<3?
yehs! i have a section in my guide on bait, although not very in dept.
yezs! grab approaches also rock. some people just shield when you approach them(waiting to shield grab you,haha bunch of losers) giving you a good opportunity to grab. although grab approaches obviously wont work on campers. if you know which characters to use the grab approach then your set!!!

Falcon Pawnch is always a good approach, especially effective on MK imo
Yehs!YehZ!
falcon pawnch> tornado> =(
falcon pawnch> mk roll dodges behind you> mk smashes you> GAME!!!> =(

anyways you shouldn't approach anyone at all with falcon pawnch, it's epic in all but its a bad approach. usually aerials are the best way to approach.
 

t3h n00b

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
961
Location
Laurel, Maryland
Falcon Punch destroys whirling fortress if it isn't sweetspotted. My friend always thinks when I choose Falcon he should go bottom tier too... so yeah. Like the lag is long enough to hit if you start midway through Bowser's attack.
 

F5Hazardousdoc

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
580
Falcon Punch destroys whirling fortress if it isn't sweetspotted. My friend always thinks when I choose Falcon he should go bottom tier too... so yeah. Like the lag is long enough to hit if you start midway through Bowser's attack.
Do ya mean getting hit?

I punish low percent fortresses with knees, now the bowser's I play don't fortress till I'm at 40% or higher.
 

Kitamerby

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
5,729
Location
Las Vegas
yehs! i have a section in my guide on bait, although not very in dept.
yezs! grab approaches also rock. some people just shield when you approach them(waiting to shield grab you,haha bunch of losers) giving you a good opportunity to grab. although grab approaches obviously wont work on campers. if you know which characters to use the grab approach then your set!!!



Yehs!YehZ!
falcon pawnch> tornado> =(
falcon pawnch> mk roll dodges behind you> mk smashes you> GAME!!!> =(

anyways you shouldn't approach anyone at all with falcon pawnch, it's epic in all but its a bad approach. usually aerials are the best way to approach.
Liar

Falcon Punch outprioritizes tornado, and reverse punches outprioritize rolls. And rolls don't even have hitboxes.


Oh, and Falcon Punch outprioritizes every non-invincible frame of the shuttle loop, too.


Falcon Punch will become a STAPLE in our gameplay.

Hey Meta Knights! Momma said PAWNCH you out.
 
Top Bottom