F-Tier Player
Smash Ace
I would like to see what current Yoshis write in the approach discussion. It's so important to know the when and how to attack.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Guide How to Hatch a Healthy Yoshi: A Group Project - Who wants it?
- Thread starter Sharky
- Start date
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
I can write up on approaches a bit. If we were doing character specific, I have ROB down to a science now.
Airborne
Smash Lord
I call egg lay. Its the one move I can actually brag about.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
I could take 'how to play gay on Norfair'
I was going to take Egglay, but I guess i'll take the Ledge Tricks. We do have quite alot of Shenanigans on the ledge.
Airborne
Smash Lord
F-Tier Player
Smash Ace
Isn't Norfair banned now? If not, it's a wonderful planking stage.
Sharky
Smash Master
norfair mm is in order whenever we meet.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I will Norfair MM all of you.
The idea of anyone outgaying me on Norfair is laughable.
The idea of anyone outgaying me on Norfair is laughable.
You only care cause I've been like, your mentor until you decided to make your Yoshi playstyle your name.
Also, don't people know that aggressive players are the best gay players possible? Don't make me take yall money
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Okay, but I call Cyan Yoshi :D
Same goes to you :DI will Norfair MM all of you.
The idea of anyone outgaying me on Norfair is laughable.
PZ
Smash Lord
I care too! although I rarely visit the yoshi boards but I care!
Sharky
Smash Master
just saying, I had him first =P
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I like how Gashi's implying that he has some sort of power over me.
I have seniority, I get Cyan. Just as Sharky would get Cyan when we play.
I have seniority, I get Cyan. Just as Sharky would get Cyan when we play.
When I first started SSBB (Just stayed on Rel_12's forum) I used Dark Blue. I then moved to Cyan for the hell of it when I joined SWF in 2009 rather than joining in 2002.
With MLP out now, I might start using Pink for the PPie tag, but still mainly be named Slush of course.
With MLP out now, I might start using Pink for the PPie tag, but still mainly be named Slush of course.
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Gtfo my ledge tricks Slush. You will actually not take them. And you will like not having them.
[Collapse=The Yoshi's LedgePlay Creed]This is my ledge. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My ledge is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My ledge, without me, is useless unless i am playing a MetaKnight. Without my ledge, I am useless. I must ECE on my ledge true. I must aim straighter than my enemy who is trying to gimp me. I must egg him before he footstools me. I will...
My ledge and my eggs know that what counts in this set is not the amount rounds we fire, the flashiness of our ledge DR, nor the damage we give. We know that it is the stalling that counts. We will Deltacod...
My ledge is a dinosaur dragon turtle thing, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its frame data, its options, its techs and its shenanigans. I will ever guard it against the ravages of Snakes and bats with sharp objects as I will ever guard my butt, my feet, my tail and my nose (omfg especially my nose) against damage. I will keep my ledge safe and open. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before Sakurai, I swear this creed. My ledge and myself are the defenders of this tournament placing. We are the masters of Hades Planking. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory or getting 17th again is Yoshi's and Metaknight is banned, but peace![/Collapse]
TL;DR I got this slush no worries : D
PZ
Smash Lord
Meh I was just looking at the DR section n practicing it but cant seem to get it ever! I easily do a buffered DR or DR after any aerial.
Uhz...i care but usually when I come here its dead so I become uninterested but that works too!
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
I used pink yoshi for breast cancer awareness month. And my tag was Bewbs
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Finished my writeup. It can probably be improved, but for now, this is what I have.
A Guide on Deltacodding
So, ladies (all of you, not just Hades), some of you may be wondering just how Yoshi’s camp game can be so effective. Well, I’m going to tell you, because extreme Yoshi camping has been given my name, after all.
The first thing to understand is what Camping really entails. A lot of people look at camping and picture it the way Falco would be camping, meaning that you’re constantly shooting projectiles at your enemy to tack on damage. This is NOT how Yoshi will be doing it often. Yoshi’s camping game is much more complex and can vary HIGHLY from character to character, so you need to learn what to do through experience. There are three main tools that you will be using when camping with Yoshi, and they are:
• Egg Toss (Obviously)
• Usmash
• Pivot Grab
Egg Toss is the obvious one. You throw eggs at your opponent to force them to approach, to pressure them, or to tack on damage. This is similar to the frequently imagined form of camping. However, you must keep in mind that egg toss is slow. There are plenty of holes that can be exploited in the move, from how the egg arcs through the air, to the beginning and end lag of the move. All it takes is a dodge in or a single missed egg to open yourself up for punishment.
So, you have to keep in mind what eggs, or the threat of them, can do. They force your opponent to approach, or to dance around in the air. This means that you can force your opponent to approach or do something without actually needing to throw an egg, which would put yourself at risk for punishment. Common forms of approach against a camping Yoshi are through an aerial or a grounded rush. Luckily, Yoshi has a great anti-air game and a good anti-ground approach game as well.
Usmash is a high priority move that’s decently quick, and Yoshi actually has invincibility on his head during the move. This allows you to stuff most aerials without a problem, and it puts you in a good position, since being below someone gives you A LOT more options than your enemy.
Pivot Grab is your other approach blocker. It’s a grab, it’s fast, and it outspaces a lot of other moves. Just be wary of the blindspot it has, which is about a 45 degree angle from Yoshi’s nose. That’s a common way to get hit for pivot grabbing. If your opponent is coming from the air, you can run under them and pivot grab, giving you more space on the stage and saving you from punishment. Pivot Grab is also amazing because of Yoshi’s Grab Release CG, meaning that one grab can turn into 20 or more percent and refresh all your moves, WHILE putting your opponent offstage.
My favorite example for the basic form of camping with Yoshi is fighting with Game and Watch (GnW). It’s a very good match up to play if you want to understand basic camping, since it really only involves the three core moves. GnW has to approach us because of our egg toss, but running right in would cause him to either get hit by Usmash or pivot grabbed. As a result, he’ll end up spending a lot of time dancing around at midrange, waiting for you to throw an egg while he’s in a good position to punish, or waiting to make a read that allows him to get in. All you need to do in this MU is know how to beat his approaches. Usmash will beat almost all of his aerials and trade with Dair, so aerial approaches are covered with that. Pivot Grab will also outspace all of his moves if you space it well, so that’s good as well. If he’s spending a lot of time dancing around, wait for him to jump and then throw an egg. When he’s already in the air, his options are limited as to how he can punish the egg toss, and most likely, you’ll be able to escape a missed egg toss without punishment as long as you’re throwing them safely. The match up basically comes down to you playing smart with your camp game and knowing how to Usmash or pivot grab GnW’s approaches.
Despite how simple it might seem, most match ups force Yoshi to use some more secondary tactics in addition to the three basic moves. They are:
• Jab
• Absolute Patience
• Stage Control
• Mobility
• Spontaneous Aggression
So, we know how good the three basic moves are for keeping people away from you and allowing you to camp. But eventually, you’re going to get read, and they’re going to get in. Maybe they ran in and spotdodged your pivot grab and are charging at you while you’re still recovering from the end lag, or maybe the airdodged through your Usmash. Either way, they’re closing in on you and you need to get them out. So, you now use Yoshi’s number 1 “Get Out Of My Face” move, Jab. It’s quick, it’s got good range, it’s got low end lag, decent priority. It’s got everything you need to get people out of your face. Naturally, it’s beaten by a shield, but there are plenty of mixups you can do with it. You can Jab once, wait, then do the first jab again. Or, you could could jab once, wait, then finish with the second jab. Or jab then pivot grab. Either way, there are plenty of options you can use when jabbing, and you need to get a feel for how they work through practice.
Absolute patience is what caused camping to be given my name. Sometimes, to camp with Yoshi, you need to resist all urges to act. You can’t get antsy. The moment you get antsy and attack or do something stupid, you lose. You always need to stay calm and remember that you’re Yoshi and that approaching a lot of the characters you’re camping would be bad. Keep an eye on the clock. Even if you’re behind, remember that there’s always a lot of time left. It’s not until you hit about the minute mark that you really need to become more aggressive if you’re behind. It’s also good to keep in mind that if you’re feeling antsy or frustrated, that your opponent is probably feeling the same way. Beat them. Make sure they break and attack first, it’ll save you a lot of trouble. It’s important to remember that being patient and camping means that you won’t always be doing something. You might just end up spending a lot of time moving back and forth, or jumping but not doing anything, to try to stay safe and bait your opponent into one of your counters. It involves a LOT of thinking, and if your opponent is smart, they won’t just run into your traps. This can lead to VERY stressful matches, and it’s not easy to keep it up through an entire tournament. Speaking from experience, I was only able to keep this sort of playstyle up for 2 sets before giving up for the third because I was so tired.
The next bit is Stage Control. When you’re camping, you want to have access to as much of the stage as possible. Against some characters, you’re gradually going to be pushed further and further back to the edge until you manage to land that grab or Usmash. It’s important to keep in mind your position when you play. When you’re pushed to the ledge, you can’t retreat anymore, which limits your ability to pivot grab or make space if you’re feeling pressured. It’s sometimes okay to get on the ledge when you need to, but remember that tournaments run Ledge Grab Limits, so being forced to the ledge too often is bad. Ledge Play, mainly ECE, can help you create an opening to return on stage past your opponent, giving you access to most of the stage again. If you land an Usmash or a grab, make sure to force your opponent to the outside and give yourself access to the center again. If you can’t CG the character, throw him to the edge and take the center. If your opponent starts to back away a little bit, move forward and take back a little bit of room. Every little thing counts. Stage control also helps with things that aren’t camping. The closer to the center of the stage you are, the further away you are from the blast zones, for example. It also limits the places your opponent can move to without fear of being punished.
Yoshi’s mobility ties in with the idea of stage control. Yoshi is VERY fast (highest air speed in the game, high ground speed), and this allows him to maneuver around stages very well. B reversing Egg Lay allows for rapid changes in air momentum, and his overall speed allows him to navigate platforms very well. You can abuse his mobility to maintain good positions on stage and to bait your opponents into attacking you. For example, if you were to jump backwards at an opponent, say MK, he might think that you were going to Bair him, so he’d shield and prepare to punish you for hitting his shield, or tornado to stuff your approach. But, if you were to B reverse an egg lay instead, you would be retreating with a low lag grab that would give you time to punish the tornado or his approach. Make sure you practice Yoshi’s movement techs, especially DR, since they open up a ton of baiting options that can help your defensive AND offensive game.
Spontaneous Aggression is one of the most important things to think about when camping. When you spend your entire game camping, you get predictable, and it gives the enemy too much time to work their way through your defense. That’s why, although it does seem to be against the idea of camping, it’s important to learn how to attack. For example, say you’re throwing eggs and your opponent is slowly approaching you while powershielding them. Well, while you might want to continue whittling down their shield or try to pivot grab their eventual approach, you can instead break your camp and dash grab them. When you break your defense like that for a sudden rush, it’s very likely that you can catch your opponent offguard and score some stage control and damage. Following up with this is the idea of keeping momentum going. If you land a hit and you get your opponent in a bad spot (offstage, above you, hit them with a tilt), it’s not a bad idea to continue attacking your opponent to overwhelm him and keep a string going. Just know when to hold back and reset. You don’t want to overdo it, because a reversal of momentum can land you in an equally bad spot and cause you to take a lot of unnecessary damage, which is what you’re trying to avoid.
The last thing to remember is that you’re going to need a lot of experience to truly camp effectively against a smart opponent. Your reactions to approaches need to become instinctive. You need to learn the opposing characters and how they typically approach. And, you’re ultimately going to need to learn to develop your own style that works for you. You really do need to feel Yoshi to play him efficiently, so make sure you play with him a lot. Your movements should feel natural, and you should feel completely comfortable controlling Yoshi.
Here’s a video of me that I feel demonstrates everything I’ve just written: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQN8f3hZaco
If you watch the video, you’ll notice that I did not really approach or attack at all that match. The vast majority of my damage came from Eggs, Pivot Grabs and Chain Grabs, and USmash. I wasn’t always throwing eggs, and I spent A LOT of time dashing around and trying to bait my opponent to approach so I could punish him. If you look at around 1:10-1:20, I moved back and forth, retreating in case of an attack, but also moving back forwards as the MK moved back, giving me space to reclaim. I also rushed him down with Nair when I was getting pushed to the ledge to give myself space. I spent a lot of time waiting to throw eggs as well, since throwing eggs against MK when he’s on the ground is dangerous since he’s fast along the ground. And this is all only from the first minute and a half. If you watch further you’ll be able to see what the whole thing looks like in a full length match.
So, in short, here’s what you need to do to successfully camp with Yoshi:
• Learn what moves you have beat the approaches of the opposing character.
• Remain patient.
• Do NOT autopilot. Keep your mind active and thinking.
• Make smart decisions/calculated risks. Don’t just throw out moves without being aware of how they can be punished.
• Know when to break your camping and attack.
• Keep good stage control
• Play. A lot.
Happy Camping!
How to Camp (v 1.1)
A Guide on Deltacodding
So, ladies (all of you, not just Hades), some of you may be wondering just how Yoshi’s camp game can be so effective. Well, I’m going to tell you, because extreme Yoshi camping has been given my name, after all.
The first thing to understand is what Camping really entails. A lot of people look at camping and picture it the way Falco would be camping, meaning that you’re constantly shooting projectiles at your enemy to tack on damage. This is NOT how Yoshi will be doing it often. Yoshi’s camping game is much more complex and can vary HIGHLY from character to character, so you need to learn what to do through experience. There are three main tools that you will be using when camping with Yoshi, and they are:
• Egg Toss (Obviously)
• Usmash
• Pivot Grab
Egg Toss is the obvious one. You throw eggs at your opponent to force them to approach, to pressure them, or to tack on damage. This is similar to the frequently imagined form of camping. However, you must keep in mind that egg toss is slow. There are plenty of holes that can be exploited in the move, from how the egg arcs through the air, to the beginning and end lag of the move. All it takes is a dodge in or a single missed egg to open yourself up for punishment.
So, you have to keep in mind what eggs, or the threat of them, can do. They force your opponent to approach, or to dance around in the air. This means that you can force your opponent to approach or do something without actually needing to throw an egg, which would put yourself at risk for punishment. Common forms of approach against a camping Yoshi are through an aerial or a grounded rush. Luckily, Yoshi has a great anti-air game and a good anti-ground approach game as well.
Usmash is a high priority move that’s decently quick, and Yoshi actually has invincibility on his head during the move. This allows you to stuff most aerials without a problem, and it puts you in a good position, since being below someone gives you A LOT more options than your enemy.
Pivot Grab is your other approach blocker. It’s a grab, it’s fast, and it outspaces a lot of other moves. Just be wary of the blindspot it has, which is about a 45 degree angle from Yoshi’s nose. That’s a common way to get hit for pivot grabbing. If your opponent is coming from the air, you can run under them and pivot grab, giving you more space on the stage and saving you from punishment. Pivot Grab is also amazing because of Yoshi’s Grab Release CG, meaning that one grab can turn into 20 or more percent and refresh all your moves, WHILE putting your opponent offstage.
My favorite example for the basic form of camping with Yoshi is fighting with Game and Watch (GnW). It’s a very good match up to play if you want to understand basic camping, since it really only involves the three core moves. GnW has to approach us because of our egg toss, but running right in would cause him to either get hit by Usmash or pivot grabbed. As a result, he’ll end up spending a lot of time dancing around at midrange, waiting for you to throw an egg while he’s in a good position to punish, or waiting to make a read that allows him to get in. All you need to do in this MU is know how to beat his approaches. Usmash will beat almost all of his aerials and trade with Dair, so aerial approaches are covered with that. Pivot Grab will also outspace all of his moves if you space it well, so that’s good as well. If he’s spending a lot of time dancing around, wait for him to jump and then throw an egg. When he’s already in the air, his options are limited as to how he can punish the egg toss, and most likely, you’ll be able to escape a missed egg toss without punishment as long as you’re throwing them safely. The match up basically comes down to you playing smart with your camp game and knowing how to Usmash or pivot grab GnW’s approaches.
Despite how simple it might seem, most match ups force Yoshi to use some more secondary tactics in addition to the three basic moves. They are:
• Jab
• Absolute Patience
• Stage Control
• Mobility
• Spontaneous Aggression
So, we know how good the three basic moves are for keeping people away from you and allowing you to camp. But eventually, you’re going to get read, and they’re going to get in. Maybe they ran in and spotdodged your pivot grab and are charging at you while you’re still recovering from the end lag, or maybe the airdodged through your Usmash. Either way, they’re closing in on you and you need to get them out. So, you now use Yoshi’s number 1 “Get Out Of My Face” move, Jab. It’s quick, it’s got good range, it’s got low end lag, decent priority. It’s got everything you need to get people out of your face. Naturally, it’s beaten by a shield, but there are plenty of mixups you can do with it. You can Jab once, wait, then do the first jab again. Or, you could could jab once, wait, then finish with the second jab. Or jab then pivot grab. Either way, there are plenty of options you can use when jabbing, and you need to get a feel for how they work through practice.
Absolute patience is what caused camping to be given my name. Sometimes, to camp with Yoshi, you need to resist all urges to act. You can’t get antsy. The moment you get antsy and attack or do something stupid, you lose. You always need to stay calm and remember that you’re Yoshi and that approaching a lot of the characters you’re camping would be bad. Keep an eye on the clock. Even if you’re behind, remember that there’s always a lot of time left. It’s not until you hit about the minute mark that you really need to become more aggressive if you’re behind. It’s also good to keep in mind that if you’re feeling antsy or frustrated, that your opponent is probably feeling the same way. Beat them. Make sure they break and attack first, it’ll save you a lot of trouble. It’s important to remember that being patient and camping means that you won’t always be doing something. You might just end up spending a lot of time moving back and forth, or jumping but not doing anything, to try to stay safe and bait your opponent into one of your counters. It involves a LOT of thinking, and if your opponent is smart, they won’t just run into your traps. This can lead to VERY stressful matches, and it’s not easy to keep it up through an entire tournament. Speaking from experience, I was only able to keep this sort of playstyle up for 2 sets before giving up for the third because I was so tired.
The next bit is Stage Control. When you’re camping, you want to have access to as much of the stage as possible. Against some characters, you’re gradually going to be pushed further and further back to the edge until you manage to land that grab or Usmash. It’s important to keep in mind your position when you play. When you’re pushed to the ledge, you can’t retreat anymore, which limits your ability to pivot grab or make space if you’re feeling pressured. It’s sometimes okay to get on the ledge when you need to, but remember that tournaments run Ledge Grab Limits, so being forced to the ledge too often is bad. Ledge Play, mainly ECE, can help you create an opening to return on stage past your opponent, giving you access to most of the stage again. If you land an Usmash or a grab, make sure to force your opponent to the outside and give yourself access to the center again. If you can’t CG the character, throw him to the edge and take the center. If your opponent starts to back away a little bit, move forward and take back a little bit of room. Every little thing counts. Stage control also helps with things that aren’t camping. The closer to the center of the stage you are, the further away you are from the blast zones, for example. It also limits the places your opponent can move to without fear of being punished.
Yoshi’s mobility ties in with the idea of stage control. Yoshi is VERY fast (highest air speed in the game, high ground speed), and this allows him to maneuver around stages very well. B reversing Egg Lay allows for rapid changes in air momentum, and his overall speed allows him to navigate platforms very well. You can abuse his mobility to maintain good positions on stage and to bait your opponents into attacking you. For example, if you were to jump backwards at an opponent, say MK, he might think that you were going to Bair him, so he’d shield and prepare to punish you for hitting his shield, or tornado to stuff your approach. But, if you were to B reverse an egg lay instead, you would be retreating with a low lag grab that would give you time to punish the tornado or his approach. Make sure you practice Yoshi’s movement techs, especially DR, since they open up a ton of baiting options that can help your defensive AND offensive game.
Spontaneous Aggression is one of the most important things to think about when camping. When you spend your entire game camping, you get predictable, and it gives the enemy too much time to work their way through your defense. That’s why, although it does seem to be against the idea of camping, it’s important to learn how to attack. For example, say you’re throwing eggs and your opponent is slowly approaching you while powershielding them. Well, while you might want to continue whittling down their shield or try to pivot grab their eventual approach, you can instead break your camp and dash grab them. When you break your defense like that for a sudden rush, it’s very likely that you can catch your opponent offguard and score some stage control and damage. Following up with this is the idea of keeping momentum going. If you land a hit and you get your opponent in a bad spot (offstage, above you, hit them with a tilt), it’s not a bad idea to continue attacking your opponent to overwhelm him and keep a string going. Just know when to hold back and reset. You don’t want to overdo it, because a reversal of momentum can land you in an equally bad spot and cause you to take a lot of unnecessary damage, which is what you’re trying to avoid.
The last thing to remember is that you’re going to need a lot of experience to truly camp effectively against a smart opponent. Your reactions to approaches need to become instinctive. You need to learn the opposing characters and how they typically approach. And, you’re ultimately going to need to learn to develop your own style that works for you. You really do need to feel Yoshi to play him efficiently, so make sure you play with him a lot. Your movements should feel natural, and you should feel completely comfortable controlling Yoshi.
Here’s a video of me that I feel demonstrates everything I’ve just written: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQN8f3hZaco
If you watch the video, you’ll notice that I did not really approach or attack at all that match. The vast majority of my damage came from Eggs, Pivot Grabs and Chain Grabs, and USmash. I wasn’t always throwing eggs, and I spent A LOT of time dashing around and trying to bait my opponent to approach so I could punish him. If you look at around 1:10-1:20, I moved back and forth, retreating in case of an attack, but also moving back forwards as the MK moved back, giving me space to reclaim. I also rushed him down with Nair when I was getting pushed to the ledge to give myself space. I spent a lot of time waiting to throw eggs as well, since throwing eggs against MK when he’s on the ground is dangerous since he’s fast along the ground. And this is all only from the first minute and a half. If you watch further you’ll be able to see what the whole thing looks like in a full length match.
So, in short, here’s what you need to do to successfully camp with Yoshi:
• Learn what moves you have beat the approaches of the opposing character.
• Remain patient.
• Do NOT autopilot. Keep your mind active and thinking.
• Make smart decisions/calculated risks. Don’t just throw out moves without being aware of how they can be punished.
• Know when to break your camping and attack.
• Keep good stage control
• Play. A lot.
Happy Camping!
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
I need to find something I can write up on... What topics need a write up that no one else is already covering?
Sharky
Smash Master
currently I have delta for camping/defensive play, polt for vertical pressure, airdodge reading, and the like, and celes for ledge tricks. See my previous post for a list of things I'd like to have covered.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
I feel confident on my approach game, I'll brainstorm it and see what I come up with.
Then I'll make a write up.
Don't expect anything until at least Monday though, I wanna be able to test stuff at the smashfest tomorrow and my weekend is busy as hell.
Then I'll make a write up.
Don't expect anything until at least Monday though, I wanna be able to test stuff at the smashfest tomorrow and my weekend is busy as hell.
With Delta and Celes covering their expert traits, it'll be a pretty good project. You guys don't need me for this.
Sharky
Smash Master
I'll rope you into this yet, don't worry!
Airborne
Smash Lord
If anything, you could have Scatz edit/rewrite the DR section. XD
In all seriousness, why not do a Jab section? Scatz is mad good at that.
Oh, since I don't have a couple key components I need to write Egg Lay, I could write up something on Zoning/Comboing with Egg Toss.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Guys, does fsmash beat out mks glide, i thought I heard this somewhere before...?
Sharky
Smash Master
they clank I'm fairly sure. Maybe you're thinking of us rearing our head back to avoid the glide attack then hitting them?
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Possibly, I believe it was Polt who said something about how he uses fsmash against mk's glide and gets profit.
Sharky
Smash Master
people have been doing that since brawl was released though lol
The hard part is catching them so that it happens. Falco has a decent amount of moves to reduce the penalty, and he has illusion to get space on us if we don't read it. Idk about fox or wolf, but for the most part, even if we get them, they can't be close enough to miss the stage (which happens often for me when I played).
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
At what points can we grab them to force this lag?
Sharky
Smash Master
when they have sweetspotted the ledge and have not touched the ground yet
someone correct me if I didn't word this right
someone correct me if I didn't word this right