How to Hatch a Healthy Yoshi: A Group Project - Who wants it?

Sharky

Smash Master
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Hey, guys! Welcome to the new and improved Yoshi Guide. How is it improved, you say? I'm not the only author now. In fact, this guide is now written by the top Yoshi's on SWF. Keep in mind that, at this point, we do not have a complete guide. However, all the missing points are in the process at the moment, so we will hopefully have it completed within the next week or two. So, sit back, and enjoy the awesomeness that is Yoshi at his finest! :yoshi:

1. Getting to know Yoshi (by Sharky)
Yoshi is a wonderfully goofy egg-laying dinosaur that originally rose to fame in the Mario series as Mario's faithful sidekick. He eventually took on lead roles in games of his own, and now yoshi is a separate entity with his own faithful following. (namely, us :chuckle:) If the idea of an egg-laying clumsy dino/dragon with an addictingly adorable carefree attitude strikes your fancy, Yoshi is your guy.

AlwaysSecin on the PRiDE vs ChiboSempai Youtube Video said:
this is why i hate fighting yoshi.. they're all over the place
This comment caught my eye about a month back. It struck me as to just how much this applies to Yoshi's strategy as a whole. When used correctly, he truly dominates the pace of the battle, whether it's through short-hopped aerials, egg throw slides, you name it, Yoshi's truly everywhere.
He's not the fastest character out there. Neither is he the strongest, or the best at comboing. Rather, he's a mix of it all, with more than a dash of the unexpected added into the mix. If you're a creative smasher who knows when to be fast and furious and when to bide your time, you can hatch a healthy yoshi that you'll enjoy for the entirety of your smashing days.





2. Attack Descriptions

Standard A
first hit


second hit


A sort of one-two kick. The first one disrupts, the second knocks them away. Good for shield pressure as there isn't much lag afterward, and we can combo with it at higher percents! See AT section for details. Damage: 3-6 (9), 3-5, 3-5, 3-5, 2-5, 3-4 This attack counts twice in the fatigue line, so if you have an attack that you've used a lot that you want to use again, use this attack!

F-tilt


Yoshi spins around and whacks the opponent with his tail. Fast, great range, can be angled up or down, and relatively little knockback. It's good for getting a close opponent out of your face when he's out of range of the jab. Damage: 9 9 8 7 7 6 5 5 4 4...

U-tilt


Yoshi swipes his tail above his head. Fast, and very good for starting aerial combos. Perfect to use after a bair. Not too much else to it. Damage: 10 9 8 7 6 5 5 5 4 4...

D-tilt

Yoshi performs a low sweep with his tail for knockback ranging from 1/3 to 1/2 the length of FD. Great approach move when combined with DR, and puts opponents in a bad offstage position when used at the side. Damage: 10 9 8 7 7 6 5 5 4 4...

F-Smash

Yoshi's power move in the form of a headbutt. This is great in two respects. Firstly, he rears his head back before the hit. This can be used to your advantage to dodge opponent attacks, since his nose isn't a huge target in front of him, for the time being. When the attack comes out, you should be able to hit your opponent, who just aimed for where yoshi's nose used to be. It doesn't have as much range as it did in melee, but it gained a bit of a power buff, so use it well. More on this in the strategies section. Damage: (uncharged) 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 7 7..

U-Smash

An upward headbutt. One of yoshi's two vertical KO moves. At very low damages, two can be strung together. Yoshi also rears his head back before hitting on this move, giving him another "dodge and hit" strategy, this time against aerials. See Hyphen Smashing and chaingrabbing. Damage: (uncharged)

D-Smash
first swipe

second swipe

Yoshi swipes his tail in both directions, first forward, then back. Another excellent space clearing move because of its speed and the fact that it hits behind, as well. If the opponent is right in front of you (like in your nose,) they'll be hit by both swipes for great damage. Be careful about using it, however, as whiffing with it can result in some serious punishment. Damage: (uncharged, one hit) 14 13 12 11 10 8 7 6 6

Nair

Yoshi sticks his boot out in front of him. It's a sex kick. It has excellent knockback at the start, making it another of yoshi's KO moves. It's very useful combined with yoshi's double jump as a DJC Counter attack, though be sure that when used in this way, you'll be hit when yoshi's super armor is still up. It also makes a nice approach tactic when fastfalled, sometimes even leading into tilt combos. I love using it as a combo-breaker move, because it comes out so fast. Damage: 12 11 10 8 8 7 7 6 6 6

Uair


Yoshi flips in mid-air and hits above him with his tail. Probably Yoshi's best vertical KO move, and a great aerial combo move, as well. More on this in the combo section.

Dair


The famed flutter kick. Screw anyone who says this move is any less than amazing. It has almost no end lag in the air, and can be auto-cancelled in a full jump for amazing results. Along with that, at 34% with every hit, it's Yoshi's best damaging move. But, for now, forget about the damage. Let's talk combos:
Dair->Footstool: Drag them down with the dair and finish the job with the footstool. Great spike.
Dair->Nair: Nice quick damage, can prove to be a great edgeguard/KO combo used at the right time.
Dair->Uair: Get that last bit of damage in, fastfall the uair, and score a vertical KO/set up for juggling
Autocancelled Dair->Dsmash: You might have to fast-fall the end to land on the ground, but dang, this move is just too good. Up to a whopping 62% damage with both dsmash hits!!!
Dair (while going off ledge while opponent is standing on the ledge) -> Rising Bair: Nice, creative way to add up some quick damage.
Dair doesn't stop there (hehe I rhymed.) Dashing short-hopped dairs makes for a great approach, because the forward momentum lands you too far away to be punished.
This move is particularly good in teams because it's harder to punish there.


Bair


I love this move, and you will too. It's one of his most improved moves for very good reasons. Yoshi gives four very fast swipes behind him with his tail. It's his best set-up move, because it catches the opponent in it and has relatively little knock-back. Along with all of this glory, it has almost no landing lag, so it can lead to COMBOS!!! AMAZING!!! You can find more on this in the combos and strategies section. Damage: 13 11 11 10 9 8

Fair


Yoshi pulls his head back and does a headbutt. It is not a guaranteed spike anymore, it must be sweet-spotted (which isn't very hard to do, but still a skill to practice.) When it doesn't sweetspot, it has trajectory similar to his f-smash, with less knockback. This is his spike move, and should be used as such. In some cases, it can make for a nice approach move, as well. More on this move in the strategies section. Damage: 15 14 12 11 10 9 8 8 7 7 7 7

Standard B


Egg Lay: Yoshi sticks out his tongue, eats the opponent, and craps them out as an egg. Utterly humilliating to the opponent. It counts as a grab, and comes out faster than his standard grab. Best thing to do after this is taunt the hell out of the opponent, cause you just ate them. (in most situations) :yoshi: :p More on the advanced aspects of this further down.

Side B


Egg Roll: Yoshi goes into an egg and rolls around. It's a good move to catch an opponent by surprise with, because you really shouldn't be using it very much at all otherwise. At full speed it has loads of priority, being able to clink with all non-laser/bomb projectiles, and some of the strongest moves in the game such as falcon punch. Along with Game and Watch's bucket, it is the only move in the game that completely negates knockback momentum, so learn to use this to your advantage.


Down B


When on the ground, Yoshi springs up and divebombs back down. When already in the air he just divebombs back down. When grounded, there is a hitbox at the very beginning that knocks grounded opponents into the air that combos with the divebomb. Can be combo'd into with jab at higher percents. See AT section below.

Up-B


The Egg Throw: Yoshi throws an egg at a distance and trajectory determined by how long you hold the button down and how you angle the control stick, respectively. In the air, this move can now be used multiple times as a recovery! The first time it's used in the air yoshi gets a decent amount of horizontal movement, and about as much vertical movement as an air-dodge in melee. As you use it more, the amount of distance gained decreases. The most you can use this move to gain any sort of benefit whatsoever is five times before touching the ground, though I'd keep it at three to be safe. More on this in the strategies section.
Grab


Yoshi sticks his tongue out and eats the opponent, and spits him out in the specified direction. The down-throw is the best for combos, though with the floatiness of brawl the potential isn't very high. The side throws are good for getting opponents off of the stage, to set up for spikes or other aerial edge-guarding. Yoshi is infamous for having a slow, laggy standing grab. The situation hasn't improved much in brawl. He's got slightly more range, though, and not as much of a blind spot directly in front of him in a dash grab. You still need to be wary about using it, however, as it is punishable when you miss.

His dash and pivot grabs, however, are another story, and you should use these a lot. Yoshi's pivot grab removes almost all of the standing grab's start-up lag, and the dash grab has a lot of range and in fact leads to some chain grabs, as mentioned later in this guide.

Pivot grabbing: For Yoshi this is HUGE! Basically this entails dashing one way, then quickly changing directions and grabbing at near the same time. You will stop, turn, and grab. The big thing about this is the animation is different, and doesn't have anywhere near the startup OR end lag that Yoshi's normal grab has. This should be a standard technique in any Yoshi's arsenal. Ways to apply this include pseudo-dash-dancing to get the pivot effect, or running past an opponent and grabbing them on the other side. Whenever the opportunity presents itself to make a grab, you should use this, unless you're making a shield grab (cause you obviously can't dash dance when in your shield lol.)
Forward Throw



Back Throw


Up Throw


Down Throw


Pummel


Furthermore, Yoshi's taunts are the best in the game. End of conversation.



3. Defensive Game (by Bwett -- Offense to be added soon)

A large problem that Yoshi mains have been having lately is the perfection of offensive and defensive play. Because Yoshi is able to switch between the two so easily, I will discuss both. In this guide, I will be discussing a large number of topics that could encompass other guides, but will mostly cover general setups, combos, how to not get hit or grabbed, and other tips related to offensive and defensive styles.

DEFENSE:
Before we get to offense, the most important aspect that every Yoshi should work on is their defense. There are several strategies to use, but I will discuss what I believe works.

In order to maintain a great defense, you must maintain great spacing. You must be approximately a roll length or longer away from your opponent at all times. At this length, it allows you every option available to punish your opponent for any situation he may create. Note that at this space, you must have fast reflexes to be able to punish him so be on your feet. Now, picture a bubble around you with a radius of that roll length. No matter what, the opponent is never to come inside that bubble unless you plan on punishment. From any angle, you may punish in this way. If they approach forward, you can pivot grab. Up smash will cover everything above (as well as in front and partially behind). Furthermore, if the opponent decides to jump while close to your bubble, it is usually a free running usmash for you. These two moves are the basis for defensive play if they ever approach your bubble. These two moves are so great for defense because of their priority over other moves. If they decide not to enter the bubble, then you will egg spam to force them to approach your bubble. Please keep in mind that this kind of spacing must be used on ground or in the air. While in the air, you will use bair, uair, nair, and egg lay as your punishing tools Also, note that punishing with dair is not defensive and should not be used in such occasions.

The beauty of a great defense is the ability to manipulate your opponent to do what you want them to do. Spammed pivot grabs force the opponent into the air to punish you. From this point, you use eggs if they are away from your bubble and usmash if they try to approach. Note that you are vulnerable to certain moves that your usmash will not out prioritize if they approach from above. In this case, you move so they are not above you and rather to the left or right. As an example, fox’s dair is extremely fast and he approaches from above. Bait the dair and run out of the range to a pivot grab. You want to always manipulate your opponent to be on the edge of your bubble or outside of it.

This is the general way that I go about holding a good punishment for defense. These aren’t the only ways to punish but the most successful. Always mix it up with your moves with everything else at your disposal so you still have fmsash, dtilt, and other ways to punish that should be used sparingly.

We have talked about punishing while in defense, but what if you are unable to punish and forced to shield. First off, do not be afraid to hide in your shield. It is the strongest shield in the game and cannot be shield poked. There are roughly only two moves you should worry about while in your shield: grab and marth’s shield breaker. If you aren’t playing Marth, then only grabs. Holding shield is a valid strategy. While having a full shield, it simplifies the complication of rock, paper, scissors. If they hit your shield, depending on how strong the attack is and how close they are, you can shield grab them. Furthermore, if hit with multi-hit moves like G&W’s bair, shield all the hits except for the last few and spot dodge those. This will effectively enable you to punish “OoS”, atleast to the best of Yoshi’s ability with the current metagame. This way of punishing OoS works very well for any multi-hit move on your shield, such as MK's tornado. If they try to grab, a spot dodge or roll will work just fine.

Once you have effectively shielded or spot dodged, prepare to punish with an attack. You will need to have a fast attack. In this case, I suggest jab, ftilt, or grab. Since you are playing defensively, you must get the person out of your bubble.

That will conclude everything for general defense. There are many things you can do with this strategy that includes retreating bairs, bair walls, and tilts. I’ll let you play around with it.



Chaingrabs



Okay, the CG; some of you might know how to do it, some of you might only be able to do it sometimes, and some of you might not know how to do it at all. I am going to explain it so everyone can do it with ease.

The basic steps of the CG are:

1. Grab
2. Chew until release
3. Dash grab
4. Repeat

The key to buffering the dash correctly is to watch Yoshi's feet. When you release the opponent, Yoshi will reel back for a moment, then settle back down. When his front foot hits the ground again, you can input the dash grab.


The CG List


Key
Easy is green
Hard is orange
Super hard is dark red
* = can be upsmashed out of release, with an approximate kill percent included (fresh)


-:metaknight:Meta Knight *115%
-:ganondorf:Ganondorf *145%
-:squirtle:Squirtle *110%
-:pikachu2:Pikachu
-:diddy:Diddy Kong
-:falcon:Captain Falcon
-:bowser2:Bowser
-:lucas:Lucas *125%
-:charizard:Charizard
-:sonic:Sonic
-:warioc:Wario (Infinite)*140%
-:ike:Ike
-:link2:Link
-:falco:Falco
:zerosuitsamus:-ZSS

Sharky Notes
note on Super Hard Characters: ZSS has a three frame window to grab, Falco has a two frame window to grab.
note the second: Ness, while he cannot be cg'd, can be upsmashed or upaired out of a grab release.
Note the third: DK can just barely avoid the CG with his spinning kong (up-b). However, you can always hit him with an upsmash. I personally like to mix in chaingrabs and upsmashes to keep him on his toes.

Zero Suit Samus' CG CANNOT be buffered, which is why she is at the bottom of the list rather than Falco.



Now for the infinite on Wario. This is kind of tricky to get down, but really simple in concept:
1. Grab
2. Release
3. Re-grab with NO DASH
4. Repeat

Again, timing is key! You can't simply mash grab to get it, as it is possible to grab too early. Again, watch his foot. when his foot hits the ground, wait a split second, then hit Z. You can also time it by watching wario's progress in the air. I use this, and hit grab right around the apex of his release.



On Stage Release Options

On stage releases are really good for KOing and getting some extra damage. A lot of the CGable characters can be UpSmashed or Uaired after the release, which leads to some easy KOs.

The characters that can be easily UpSmashed after the release are:

-MetaKnight
-Ganondorf
-Popo
-Squirtle
-Lucas
-Wario
-Ness (NOT CG-ABLE, ONLY UPSMASH)
-Donkey Kong (same as Ness)


Wario and Ness can also be uair'd after release.


Off Stage Release Options

Characters that can be hit with a fair on release:

-Squirtle
-Sheik

All Spacies (fox wolf falco) can be egglayed from release just by dashing off.

These characters can be egglayed by full-hopping offstage after them:



Section 7: Ground Breaks

OK so we lied: Yoshi doesn't always air release his opponent. HOWEVER, it's something only your opponent can control. There are a certain number of frames before the opponent enters Yoshi's mouth where, if the opponent mashes fast enough, he can force a ground break out of the grab. In the event of this occurring, standard ground breaking rules apply, so you regain control at the same time your opponent does. Jabbing is usually a safe bet, but don't be surprised if you get power shielded. Of course, damage still determines how much you have to mash to get out, so ground breaking is only something you have to worry about at low percents (The highest I've ever seen someone ground break at was 60, and only the best of the mashers will be able to do THAT to you).

Section 8:
Overview


Okay so now you are thinking wow this is a lot to memorize I don't know how I will be able to remember all this? Well, just take it one step at a time and soon you will know how to CG and release spike as easily as tying your shoes. Now I am going to shortly review every thing I wrote in little steps.

1. Learn to CG
2. Learn how the release is used
3. Memorize the CG list
4. Learn all your options out of release on and off stage for each character
5. Practice

After this, you will have mastered CGing and getting grab release KOs like a pro. If you have any questions whatsoever, just post up and I will be glad to answer.


5. Offstage Play (By Sharky)

This can go either way, so let's start with one, then go to the other. That seems to make sense.

You Must Recover!!!

OK, so your opponent knocked you off the stage, what do you do, now? To start off, let's look at the different options in Yoshi's arsenal:

1. Double Jump: The most obvious of the options (obviously :yoshi:). The following section will assume only a double jump.


Many newer Yoshi players will assume that Yoshi's Heavy jump armor is good enough to get through whatever the opponent can throw at him...

LIES!!!

Using Yoshi's heavy armor while recovering is one of your least viable options. Why, you ask? Well, what if, let's say, Ness uses his dair? That will spike poor Yoshi through the armor no matter what percentage he's at. And if you have a decent amount of damage, which is (more often than not) the case when you've been knocked off the stage, many other attacks can go through your armor, as well. So unless you're SURE that you can't be hit out of your jump, use this with extreme caution.

In most cases when you're double jumping back onto the stage, the air dodge is a very nice option. Because of Yoshi's top-ranked maximum horizontal speed, if the opponent whiffs one attack, you're usually safe. However, you need to make sure you aren't predictable in your air-dodge, because if your opponent reads it, you're going to be punished (and that hurts).

Other than those two options, you can either go high above your opponent, or try to sweetspot the ledge. Going high may seem safe, at first, but then how are you getting back down? Yoshi does not have very many downward attack options, and it's easy to bait an airdodge from this position. His fast-falling speed isn't much to admire, either, in this respect. If you go for the ledge, then you'll either have to hit it at the very start of the jump (when Yoshi experiences falling frames), or at the very end of the jump, like any other character. Since Yoshi's double jump is so long, this generally isn't desireable.

The ground pound can remedy both of these options' faults, used correctly. If you need to get down quickly, and the opponent isn't right below you (or isn't expecting it), try a down-b. You can also use it to get to the ledge from such a position. If you use a ground pound from just below the ledge, you'll grab it. If you down-b just as Yoshi's head reaches the ledge (very hard to do), you'll grab the ledge instantly without the ground pound animation. These methods eliminate Yoshi sticking his head above ground level, making him vulnerable to attack from the stage.


2. Egg Toss: Some people still don't realize this, but Yoshi's egg toss is actually a semi-decent form of recovery. This is mostly due to the fact that he can use it multiple times (up to five) in midair and still receive a vertical benefit. Let's take a quick moment to examine its properties.

a: The first time egg toss is used, Yoshi receives a decent (for an action like throwing an egg) vertical boost, of about one Yoshi height. This decreases as Yoshi uses the move more (without landing, of course), until the fifth time, when it simply halts his drop. After this, it has no effect whatsoever on Yoshi's vertical movement.

b: Like the double jump, there are multiple points during which Yoshi can grab the ledge. The first is just as the move starts, and you need to be right at the ledge (and rising from the double jump) to do this. The next point (hard to do) is just before Yoshi throws the egg. Once again, Yoshi needs to be right at the ledge to get this. Next is, of course, after Yoshi throws the egg, once the move is over.

Since you can egg throw both before and after the double jump, one can mix up Yoshi's recovery very nicely when using this move correctly. To make things even more interesting, you can completely reverse Yoshi's momentum by wavebouncing the up-b. You could mess with your opponent, for example, by repeatedly wavebouncing egg throws, to keep him/her guessing as to when you will actually try to recover. Or, you can use the egg as a deterrence, threatening your opponent with an egg in the face should he try to approach/attack you.

Well, now we know what Yoshi can do. The next issue of recovery, however, is what your opponent can do. Obviously, you wouldn't recover the same way against a Metaknight as you would against a Snake, for example. To begin the decision making process, consider the following:

1. What does your opponent, as a player, like to do? Is he agressive? Is he campy? How likely is he to approach you, offstage? This has much to do with the character, as the player, but both need to be considered.

2. What character is he, and how does this character perform, off-stage? Against a character such as Metaknight, you will need to be careful, and be sure to watch where he's going. If he approaches you, try to air dodge past him. If it's a Snake, you might try to go over him, or grab the ledge while distracting him with eggs. If it's a Link/Toon Link, projectiles are going to be a big issue, and when you perform your airdodge will be crucial to your recovery.


5. Yoshi's AT's/Really Good Tactics

The following four AT's can be found in this

video.


1. Edge Cancelled Eggs: In melee this was in my opinion the hardest Yoshi skill to master, and one of the more rewarding ones. Basically, you're grabbing the ledge, letting go, and using the egg throw to toss an egg onto the stage at your waiting opponent. Fumi made this famous, and few sights were more entertaining to see than him keeping an opponent at bay by throwing a couple eggs at them per second. Now, because Yoshi's Up-B gives a vertical boost, you no longer have to double jump to do it! This has its ups and downs. On the good side, it's a lot easier to do now. On the down side, you don't have as much invincibility while doing it now, and if you use the egg throw too late, instead of throwing the egg onto the stage, you'll just hit the side of the stage. It's not super hard anymore, but it's not completely newbie friendly, either. Definitely something to practice.

Note: Yoshi's Up-B diminishes in height gained while ECE'ing, just as if he were in the air the whole time. This is due to him never touching the stage. This limits you do doing four (five if you're perfect) ECE's before you have to stop. Otherwise you'll just fall to your doom.



Egg Throw Slide: Yoshi cancels his jump in the middle of a dash with an egg throw and slides a ways in the process. The distance is comparable to a wavedash in melee (I am NOT saying this is a wavedash -_-). There are two ways to do this, depending on whether you have TapJump on or off.

A: TapJump on: This is the simpler of the two methods, as you don't have to push any extra buttons. In this method, you start your dash in whichever direction you want to move, and quickly rotate you control stick half a rotation, being sure to hit b when the control stick is pointing up.

B: TapJump off: Pick a button that you want to jump with. Most people either claw the controller (hit x or y with their index finger) or use L. Make sure it's set to jump. Start your dash, jump, and immediately after you jump, hit up-b. This is my preferred method, because TapJump gimps Yoshi's recovery. Use this as a spacing technique. If someone's approaching, ETS backwards, then grab them after you've hit them with an egg. If someone's using projectiles, but you don't want to straight up run at them, ETS forward, and, once you're close enough, go in for the attack. Very important egg technique for Yoshi players who want to control the pace of the fight and force the opponent to do something he doesn't normally do.

Egg-Lay time-out/Egg-Lay Foot Stomp: Normally, Yoshi will eat the opponent and poop him out in an egg. However, this is not guaranteed. At the very tip of the attack range, Yoshi will not eat the opponent, and, instead, just draw them towards you. As you can tell, this has some uses. For example, done off the edge, you can follow it up with a footstool jump, given the correct timing. More testing needs to be done on the subject to determine the full capabilities of this breakthrough.

Stutter Step: Credit goes to T0MMY in the R.O.B. boards for discovering this. Basically, you can move one way with the control stick, and right after that move the c-stick in the other direction. When done correctly, you'll move back a step, then f-smash. This can serve as a pseudo-substitution for wavedashing backwards and attacking from a standing position in melee. It's particularly useful with Yoshi since he already moves his head back when f-smashing, creating even more of an evading effect. I just started working on this today, so I haven't done much fine-tuning with it, but it seems Yoshi can smash as much as maybe a couple tenths of a second after moving back. (note: rough estimate)

Autocancelling: VERY IMPORTANT! This is certainly not a Yoshi specific AT, but still immensely important
to his game, nontheless. Basically, there are certain frames at the end of an aerial that, when you hit the ground, have no landing lag other than the basic two frames. Yoshi can auto-cancel all of his aerials to some degree: the bair, uair, nair, and fair are the easiest, being autocanceled through a short-hop. The dair takes a bit longer, you have to start it a bit before the peak of a full hop to autocancel. That doesn't mean you shouldn't use it, though. Done properly, you could potentially use an autocanceled dair, and top it off with a two-hit downsmash. This is the new L-cancel in brawl, so be sure to follow up these aerials with other attacks, such as jabs, smashes, more aerials, etc. USE IT!!! (did I get the point across yet? =P)
Video by NJZFinest

Yoshi-Bomb Cancelling: When Yoshi bombs into a slanted surface, he will slide. When this is done so that he slides off a ledge, he will instantly regain control over himself once leaving the surface. This is very nice in the way that you can get away with using the yoshi bomb very easily this way, AND follow up with an aerial! It's also nice even if you're not flying off something into the air, because you'll have the stars as a buffer between you and your opponent. I particularly like using it on the steep part of Corneria's tail, as Yoshi slides quite a good distance away from where he lands, preventing the opponent from doing anything to punish you. If you are proficient with DR wavelanding, you cn use that after ground pound to stay on the stage and attack again! =D No video available.

Dash Pivot Cancelling: Credit goes to SamuraiPanda for finding the full extent of this. When you turn around mid-dash, there's a period of time where you can do any move. This also allows for some sliding during that move. Rather than simply try to describe it in words, I'll just give you the link to SamuraiPanda's video.


Infinite Jumping and Superjumping. : Rather than make it seem at all like my work, there's the link to Bigman's post on it. Full explanation there,nice job, Bigman. =D



Dragon Dance Pick-Up: Basically, you use DR to pick up an item. Userful for R.O.B.'s gyro's, diddy's bananas, peach's turnips, etc. Thanks to Shiri for coming up with this one. Here's his video. Now, once you've picked up that handy dandy item, you can do...


DJ Throw Cancelling: You can cancel your double jump by throwing an item. When down on the ground, a mini-glide-toss is achieved. ie, Yoshi slides a bit when he throws the item. See PRiDE's thread here for further details

Dragonic Trot: Another extension of DR, basically. This is done by using only the start of the dash animation, followed by the DR. So, for anyone familiar with Melee Fox, this is the brawl equivalent of Fox-Trotting. Using this increases Yoshi's speed dramatically, and provides the closest wavedash equivalent brawl has seen yet. For more info head over here. Here's Jumpman's Video.


Egg Dropping: Purely a Survival technique, and situational at that. This is performed after you've been hit by an attack that would otherwise kill you. Use a Uair as soon as you can, then egg roll as soon as the Uair is over. The egg roll has a special momentum canceling property that only two other moves in the game (G&W's bucket and DK's Spinning Kong) have. The downside is, it's egg roll, and you can't really move around in the air after using it until it's canceled (which takes forever.) Only use it against vertical knockback OR long distance horizontal knockback (ex. hit to the right side of the stage from the left side. You are EXTREMELY prone to being edgeguarded after using this, so make sure you only use it when you'd otherwise be killed. (aka not often at all)

Single Banana Lock on Diddy: This tactic can only be used in item maches with the banana peel on or against Diddy Kong in non-item matches. Done by short-hopping, throwing the banana down at Diddy JUST BEFORE THE PEAK OF THE JUMP, using a dair to catch the banana and fastfall down to the ground, short hopping AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, and repeating the process. Throughout the lock, you should be holding forward slightly on the control stick to keep moving with Diddy for the lock. As you can see, it's a complicated process, and will take practice. Set the computer to "walk" in training mode to practice for yourself. If the computer is set to "stop", he won't roll when he can, and you'll wrongly think you have it when you don't.
Video to come when I can be bothered soon to come! =D


6. Dragonic Reverse (By Scatz/Bigman40)

Bigman40's Guide on Dragonic Reverse

The technique that most Yoshi players have been evading lately. When we think of this move, most Yoshi players have the idea that this is Double Jump Canceling (DJC). Others think that it's Wavedashing. This move is a mix of both; enabling Yoshi to use some of the same properties that Wavedashing gave in melee, but also limiting it's movement compared to its former look-a-like.

First off, Dragonic Reverse is NOT an easy technique that you'll have down within one day. This will actually take some amount of work to solidify the consistency needed to utilize this move. To actually make this move work, these are the only buttons that you need to press (in order):


1. Jump
2. Double Jump
3. Attack/C-stick (this does not matter on whether you do a B-air, N-air, F-air, or a U-air)


You're probably laughing at how easy it's asking you right now, aren't you? Well, you have a certain amount of frames to input these three buttons. AT MOST, you need to push those 3 buttons within 9 frames (I'll expand on that soon). Some of the people that loved Melee's tech skill will probably say that this move is nothing close to hard. Unfortunately, Dragonic Reverse has even more requirements that will choose whether this technique is a success or failure.

NOTE: All of this is starts on frame 2 AFTER pushing jump (jump on frame 1).

1a. 4 frames = (3 - jump, 4 - attack) This is the earliest you can input the buttons
1b. 6 frames = (3 - jump, 6 - attack) This is the latest you can input the buttons
2. **9 frames = (8 - jump, 9 - attack) This is a special one compared to the rest. Explanation later.

The restrictions that will not allow this technique to register correctly are listed here:
1. Pushing two jump buttons at the same time will NOT register DJ
3. Cannot push jump within 2 frames (will register as one jump)
4. On frame 7, if you input the jump then, you will not get a DJ.
5. Cannot register attack on frame 7- 9 if jump is on frame 6
6. As long as attack is done on frame 6, the jump can be inputted anywhere from frame 3-5


To get the just of what I said above, as soon as you input your initial jump, you only have 5 frames to input the last two buttons. But now, you're wondering why it can be done within 9 frames. Well, it's because Yoshi's cancel has two different looks. The first cancel keeps Yoshi completely planted onto the ground where it only happens when you input the buttons before frame 7. The second cancel actually shows the DJ rings just before he touches the ground. This can only be achieved by inputting it from what was said above (following the **).

The second cancel is quite useful if you are someone who would like to take a dare at things. Since yoshi IS in the air before he lands back onto the ground, you will have only 1 frame where you will get Heavy Armor to absorb the damage and knockback from almost any attack while you counterattack freely. This is what most of you Yoshi mainers are probably getting if you use a method such as X, X, A or Y, Y, A. The thumb is normally not fast enough to tap these buttons quickly enough, and get the DJ and attack to come 1 frame after the other without exerting some amount of energy.


Note: The differences with the first and second cancels are small, but I will still list them so you can figure out what you want to try to get.

1st cancel: You will get a slightly smaller slide compared to the 2nd cancel. You also won't get the heavy armor frame, but this method is easier to pull off given the window (at max, a 4 frame difference between pushing for a DJ and an Attack).

2nd cancel: The slide is longer than the first cancel, and you'll have 1 frame to counter your opponents if you hit the move correctly. While given these small benefits, you are given a 1 frame difference to input the DJ and Attack (DJ on frame 8 and Attack on frame 9).


If you choose to use the first cancel rather than the second cancel, understand that you WON'T get the 1 frame of heavy armor. You'll be vunerable from the start to the moment you touch the ground (that's a total of about 9 - 11 frames). So when using the first cancel, make sure that you pay attention to when you need to use it. Don't want to be getting hit by a Fsmash that you DR'ed into. :(

When you practice this technique, MAKE SURE that you take breaks inbetween every 5 - 10 mins of practicing. Since the inputs are soo quick, the technique will demand alot of energy. Continuing to practice without taking any breaks will not make you get any more consistent, nor will it make your thumb move any faster. A rested arm (yes, your arm can get tired from using up alot of energy to make you thumb tap that quickly) will always allow you to use this maneuver much more efficiently than an arm that's tired from attempting to force the technique for a good while.

As for incorporating the move, play with it in friendlies and find out what works best for you. Only use this tech when you have a fair amount of confidence that you'll get it when you want it to. Using it recklessly will help you learn quickly when and where the right/wrong places are when attempting to use this technique. Don't get frustrated, as it's not something that you can get down consistently within mere hours. Give it time, and you'll slowly (maybe quickly) see improvements in your Yoshi overall! :)

That's all for you to know! Go out there and start messing with it! Happy :yoshi: ing! ^_^


7. Frame Data
Courtesy of Scatz (Bigman40)





Match-ups

This thread does it all. Whether you want to knock that Metaknight or Snake off the podium spot, or finally shake off that really good luigi in your area, this is the place to go. Note, we don't have a thread for every character, yet. That will change, in time, of course.



8. More Help

First off, as this group project thing is still in its beginning stages, please remember that some sections are not added, yet. If you think a section should be added, let us know in this thread!

If there's anything not mentioned here that should be, let me know! If you need something more immediate, you can either pm me (I'm usually near a computer at least a few times a day nowadays) or you can go here to the Yoshi FAQ Thread to find what you're looking for. Please, please, please don't make a thread of your own without checking around the forums, first! Thanks!

Until next time, happy :yoshi:ing! :yoshi:
 

DstyCube

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
335
Location
Hawaii
#2
It's back and better than ever! I look forward to seeing this guide develop in the future. Possibly some numbers for his move set and character matchups? Great job. This definitely deserves a sticky!

Thank you so much Yoshinator :grin:
 

Sharky

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Syracuse, NY
#10
I replied to that already lol *points up to the post after yours*

and about the "dodge and hit" strategy, it was existant in melee, as well. So it's not exactly new. =P
 

Dogger

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
4
Location
California
#15
This post isn't too bad, but there are a couple things it needs.

First off, due to different and easier edge-grabbing mechanics in brawl, you don't need to jump at all to edge guard. The best way to do so is to simply run off the edge and slam backwards on the control stick. It takes a little practice but it's a faster method that doesn't cause Yoshi to risk using his second jump. The only reason this works now is because you can grab the ledge with your back, when before you had to be facing it. If people are going to be practicing edge guarding with Yoshi, this is probably the method they should be learning.

Another thing is his Side+B. It has been my personal experience to never write a move off without finding some good use for it. Side+B now opens up A LOT of doors for Yoshi, it's safe to use for quick damage, can be placed in combos, and also works remarkably well for escaping. Not to mention it's priority has been buffed significantly. If it can take a Falcon Punch, it's not something we need to be telling people not to use. Here is a video that displays it's negation and others that show it being put into practice in an actual fight.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5gtD0nD_M
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PRnMTvp1u5k
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y3RAbL4NDiY

Other than that this isn't a bad Yoshi guide at all. There are a few opinions in here I'd personally not like to see mixed together with all of the facts, but that's more a suggestion than a complaint.
 

Caterpillar

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5
#18
hmmm in melee i found that after a nuetral b i could get in a flutter kick (dair) against lighter opponents [particularly samus] that were unwarily not swirling their control sticks.
i thought with the floatiness of brawl this might be easier to do [characters varying].
just thought id throw that out there. :/
 

Shyningfade

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10
#20
Nice guide. Learned a few new things thanks to you efforts. I do agree that the egg roll isn't anywhere near useless, though. The negation is a huge bonus as is the movement speed, and its good to mix up when rolling. A good player takes full advantage of ALL his options, no matter how small and insignificant they may appear at the time. I even got some use out of the angling from his ftilt! But otherwise - nice guide! I hope that in the future I'll be able to add some tips of my own.
 

Sharky

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,786
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#21
Edited the Double Jump and Egg Roll sections.

Yoshi'stheBombers: It was more useful against some characters than others. For example, it's very nice against marths, as you can dodge moves like his f-smash or aerials and then lean in for the hit.
 

Yoshi'stheBombers7

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
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#23
It was more useful against some characters than others. For example, it's very nice against marths, as you can dodge moves like his f-smash or aerials and then lean in for the hit.
Yeah, but I still don't find it that great in Melee, unless you wavedash back, then forwards again and F Smash. That has a higher percentage of accomplishing the dodge and hit strategy, I think.
 

Yoshi'stheBombers7

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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#25
people must not have tried to tip you much then lol, cause it works perfectly at that range
You wavedash back when they try to tip you, so you're out of range. Then you wavedash forwards and F Smash. The dodge and hit strategy only works if you're just in the right place for it. Good Marths don't just F Smash hoping they'll hit you, they F Smash to get a tip, so they can edge guard you, combo, etc. The dodge and hit strategy works, but players who don't want to be shield grabbed or F Smashed back don't just F Smash away at any given oppertunity.
 

Sharky

Smash Master
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#26
You don't quite seem to get my point. The f-smash's range had the perfect distance to work with marth's tip. Which is exactly what I said in what you quoted off of me, now that I mention it. With the leanback, the tip missed yoshi's nose, and yoshi would lean back in in time to hit the now leaning in marth. It also worked very well with marth's shorter ranged f and n airs. The upsmash worked decently well enough against some aerials, as well, for the same reasons.

But anywho, this isn't a melee thread, it's a brawl thread, so let's focus on that. I've had it work a good number of times in brawl, as well.
 

heypancho

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
110
#27
Caaaaaaaan Yoshi's bair go through a shield?.. or rather.. can you bair someone shielding and land behind them (which would mean you would be facing their back)? I only ask because I hate getting shield grabbed ~_~!
 

Yoshi'stheBombers7

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
436
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NH ... >_<
#28
You don't quite seem to get my point. The f-smash's range had the perfect distance to work with marth's tip. Which is exactly what I said in what you quoted off of me, now that I mention it. With the leanback, the tip missed yoshi's nose, and yoshi would lean back in in time to hit the now leaning in marth. It also worked very well with marth's shorter ranged f and n airs. The upsmash worked decently well enough against some aerials, as well, for the same reasons.
I get it now. I need to try this more, as you make it sound easier than I thought it was. I tried doing this a LONG time ago, and my timing was probably off.

On topic: is it better in Brawl? You metioned it was back, but not if it was improved.
 

Sharky

Smash Master
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#29
The f-smash has a little less range in brawl, so it overall doesn't work as well. However, if we're speaking specifically of marth v yoshi, his sword is shorter too, so maybe, I haven't tried it yet. Something to look at next time I'm over there.
 

Yoshi'stheBombers7

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
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#32
I hope to see some Yoshi mainers in the future who can combo like Fumi's Yoshi...if possible. :laugh:
You have to be a descendant of Fumi to achive that skill. Or, you must find the legendary Yoshi cup in some mysterious unknown desert, fill it with the berries on Yoshi's Island, mix and compress the berries into a juice, and drink it. Only then will you play like Fumi. :p
 

Sharky

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#35
I added a new subsection in the combolicious techniques/strategies section on stutter stepping. Thanks to T0MMY for finding this. I hope to be able to do more work on this in the next few days to determine the full use of it. However, next week is finals week for me, so I might not be able to get very much work in on this. =/
 
Joined
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#36
i wonder if you might consider adding a "buffs/nerfs" section to your guide, just to give those who are curious a little idea of how and where yoshis improvements are? overall, fantastic work dude =)
 

Tanea

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
515
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denver co
#37
i realize that this has been asked before but has anyone figured out yoshis weird move yeah i know that it could b e footstool(which i doubt seen it in action and it doesnt seem like it) or his fair i mean for all we know it could some new tech that only yoshi could do. you like he jumps on you the he starts to kick or punch you who knows i jst think that it is interesting the game hasn't been fully discoverd so who is to say that is or isn't somthing important

sorry (get of high horse) well let me know if anyone figures somethingout :):):):):)



p.s. yoshinator you rock:):):):):):):)
 

Sharky

Smash Master
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#38
i wonder if you might consider adding a "buffs/nerfs" section to your guide, just to give those who are curious a little idea of how and where yoshis improvements are? overall, fantastic work dude =)
Thanks =D

Your buffs/nerfs idea sounds like a good idea. I've thought it out a bit and I think, next chance I get some time, I'm going to reorganize my guide to work with this. I will give each attack/grab/whatever a buff and nerf section, so that everyone, whether they had much melee experience or not, can get whatever they want to know about that move in one place, rather than making the melee players go to another section to find out what's different about something. Lemme know how that sounds to you guys.

Tanea said:
i realize that this has been asked before but has anyone figured out yoshis weird move yeah i know that it could b e footstool(which i doubt seen it in action and it doesnt seem like it) or his fair i mean for all we know it could some new tech that only yoshi could do. you like he jumps on you the he starts to kick or punch you who knows i jst think that it is interesting the game hasn't been fully discoverd so who is to say that is or isn't somthing important

sorry (get of high horse) well let me know if anyone figures somethingout



p.s. yoshinator you rock
Again, thanks =D

I still think it's either a footstool or a fair. Although I'd very much so welcome a "yoshi beatdown" move like you mentioned, I sadly don't think that's the case. =P However, to satisfy those that are asking, I'll try to get a picture of me doing those two moves on DK so that we can compare them with the "mystery move" pic. =)

Happy :yoshi:ing!
 
Joined
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Messages
527
Location
Canning Vale, Perth
#40
Thanks =D

Your buffs/nerfs idea sounds like a good idea. I've thought it out a bit and I think, next chance I get some time, I'm going to reorganize my guide to work with this. I will give each attack/grab/whatever a buff and nerf section, so that everyone, whether they had much melee experience or not, can get whatever they want to know about that move in one place, rather than making the melee players go to another section to find out what's different about something. Lemme know how that sounds to you guys.
sounds ideal mate, just what i was hoping for! =) can't wait!
 
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