Guide How to Hatch a Healthy Yoshi: A Group Project - Who wants it?

[Scatz]

Whenever they latch onto the ledge using upB or forwardB. They can reduce it by using aerials, but if they were to airdodge onto the stage, then they suffer about 30 frames. There's other characters that have it too like:

Luigi
Mario
Pikachu (2nd qac)
Falcon
Ganon
Squirtle
Charizard


I can't remember the others though.

 

[Z'zgashi]

^ All such popular characters lol

 

[Yikarur]

Fox Falco Wolf etc
search for the wiki article of this, every char is listed there.

 

[Delta-cod]

Marth has it as well.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Marth is gay though. And I mean sexually.

 

[Sharky]

adding peach to the list, but only if she grabs the ledge without her parasol out iirc

 

[Scatz]

Here's the entire list.

Here's the original blog by Nothing.: http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=37415
Everything I quote comes from that blog.



List of moves that give you the lag.

*The first number is the amount of frames of lag you get for a soft landing and the second number is the lag for a heavy landing.


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB - 2F/10F


UpB - 2F/7F


UpB - 15F/30F
SideB - 15F/20F


SideB - 15F/25F
DownB - 15F/25F


UpB - 15F/19F
SideB - 15F/25F


UpB - 15F/19F
SideB - 15F/20F


UpB - 15F/36F
SideB - 15F/25F


UpB - 15F/30F
SideB - 15F/20F


UpB - 15F/24F


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB (ledge snap) - 15F/5F
UpB (free fall) - 15F/30F


UpB - 15F/35F



Canceling the penalty with an aerial.
The blog says using an aerial as you land overrides the penalty which isn't completely true. You still get extra lag added to your aerial's landing lag. The amount of lag that gets added is about 35%-40% of the aerial's original landing lag. Since this a percentage increase, you really want to use your least laggiest move when you land for the safest and quickest landing.

Comparison of aerial landing lag to aerial landing lag with the penalty.

Pikachu
Nair 25F>34F
Fair 15F>21F
Bair 30F>41F
Uair 24F>33F
Dair 40F>55F

Pika's fair is the safest move as it is by far his fastest move and only adding 6 frames with the penalty. Pika's Dair with the penalty adds a massive 15 frames of lag adding up to almost a full second of lag when he lands with it. That's enough time for Ike/DDD to hit him with an fsmash. So be careful with what you land with. For some characters, sometimes it's best to just land with a soft landing instead of an aerial since it's always 15 frames.

Taking advantage of your opponents landing penalty
This is simple, all you need to do is use an attack with small knock back and that forces a landing then use whatever attack you like. The landing you get from being attacked is always heavy. Some examples of these attacks are jabs or DDD's dthrow. Here are some combos that work:
G&W - Jab > Any smash/Judgment
DDD - Dthrow > Fsmash (Ganon and Wolf only)
DDD - Dthrow > Dash attack
Luigi - Jab > UpB
Fox - Fthrow > Usmash (low percents)
Pikachu - Fthrow > Fsmash

These won't work on all characters like DDD's dthrow on light characters since it causes them to get knocked down to the floor.

 

[Airborne]

As I told Delta before, this also applies to Jab Canceling people into kill moves; they be true combos and such.

 

[Judo777]

This should be doable any time they roll get up off the stage. Also a normal stand up and even get up attack should be doable also.

I mean yea if they want to limit theyre option for getting onstage to just jumping off the ledge then i guess but just look out for it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Exactly what frame does yoshis fsmash come out? And the first hitbox of down b?

 

[Yikarur]

14 / 7


:0

 

[Z'zgashi]

Dammit, I cant fsmash peach... k, thanks :D

 

[Poltergust]

Huh, I always thought down-B was frame 6 (which is the same frame that our d-smash comes out). Go figure.

 

[Z'zgashi]

There are like, 3 peach players in Utah, and now I want to grab them out of up b and just walk up and face **** them when they land lol

 

[Yikarur]

Huh, I always thought down-B was frame 6 (which is the same frame that our d-smash comes out). Go figure.

Yoshi Bomb (Down Special,DownB)
>Grounded<
Start up: 6
Hits: 7, 29
Hit lag: None!
Ends: 74 (Flat)


and after playing this weekend In my opinion Yoshis dtilt > Yoshis dsmash by millions. Get rid of the habit if mashing the c-stick down pls.

 

[Poltergust]

Actually, I tend to fluctuate between the two for some weird reason. Some tournaments I use tilts a lot, other tournaments I tend to just use smashes, and in other tournaments I just don't jab-cancel stuff. I'm so inconsistent. @_@

 

[Sharky]

same here to be honest, it varies a lot with me.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I don't use dsmash much tbh. I actually try and space dtilt so it barely hits a lot.

 

[Delta-cod]

Dsmash has become one of my main punishing methods out of a spotdodge.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

how much frame advantage do we have after a close to the ground nair?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Dsmash is actually good as a kill move in melee though, I get a good amount of kills with tech chase wavedash > dsmash

 

[Poltergust]

Yeah, I wonder why they toned it down from 64/Melee to Brawl. =/

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont remember how good it was in 64, but in melee, landing dsmash on the ledge was an instant death on anyone at practially any damage, not to mention it can kill from the middle of the stage at normal kill percents.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Okay so i sent the basic part of my ledge thing to Sharky. And I'm starting a new solo research project =D. And since Scatz isn't doing one should i make a DR guide?

 

[Sharky]

I was gonna re-use scatz' bit that's currently here, and add uses and such, but if you can do better than go ahead =P

 

[Airborne]

I'll get to work on my egg lay essay tomorrow night most likely.... and whatever other thing I mentioned.... I think it was something to do with egg toss....

 

[Sharky]

alright well if air's doing egglay then I still need the following sections covered:

approaching
edgeguading
stage control

 

[Airborne]

hmm, I could help with stage control if anyone's willing to do some co-op on it.. Or I can get Judo's help with explaining Yoshi's edge-guarding.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

hmm, I could help with stage control if anyone's willing to do some co-op on it.. Or I can get Judo's help with explaining Yoshi's edge-guarding.

If you wanna help me with a DR guide sure. My stage control is more instinct though. I might mot be able to put it into words. If i can't ask Delta.

 

[Airborne]

If you wanna help me with a DR guide sure. My stage control is more instinct though. I might mot be able to put it into words. If i can't ask Delta.

Yeah, I could help collaborate on a DR guide, but we'd probably still need input from Scatz. =\

And the kind of control I'm more familiar with is space control in traditional fighters, so that's why I feel a bit antsy with stage control. Most of the basic rules still apply, but I'm not sure how well I can translate it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Hey guys, I just realised something, if we grab falco when he would normally have the landing penalty and release him, this forces to take the penalty then as he hits the ground every time, but it also gives us enough time to DR > dtilt or dash attack him out of the release. Do you think a GR > dash attack at high damage would be enough to score an easy KO with an edgeguard?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Probs. Depends on how high the %age is, where he is on the stage and how badly he DI's. Besides If we can do all that we can probably get a free Fsmash too. Which will be far better than Dashattack anyway.

 

[Sharky]

what celes said lol.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Fsmash according to frame data is too slow, dash attack would barely work, and that's if we buffer it.

 

[Scatz]

If he has BSL from a grab release, then you have to consider the extra frames along with the number from the initial release. Not only that, but the distance he goes matters whether Fsmash can hit or not.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Without the penalty, we have only have 3 frames to regrab, so considering we only have 15 more frames (making that 18), we'd have to dash, DR (5-7 frames), and fsmash (comes out frame 14); that would mean, even if we did it all frame perfect, it'd take 19 frames.

Also, he'd have less than 15 extra frames as we already regrab him during his normal landing lag.

 

[Scatz]

You're forgetting stutter stepping, but it might be too short to make up the extra space.

If you get him during his normal lag, then you might as well chaingrab. The second you grab him, all the lag is gone.

Also, read a few posts above.

I'M NOT WRITING UP ANYTHING, AND THAT MEANS NO REWRITE FOR DRAGONIC DANCING!!! I'll do a video with me talking though. That's like 20x easier.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yeah, basically im just saying that fsmash won't work. DR dsmash, maybe, DR dtilt yes, and dash attack should work if buffered correctly

 

[Scatz]

If DR Dsmash and DR Dtilt works then Dash Attack should be easy to land.
DR Dsmash is about 15 frames (9+6) and DR Dtilt is around 17 frames (9+8). My numbers might not be right, but if you have that time Dash Attack is just about putting at a time to get the strong hit, which would be delayed by around 3-5 frames before inputting the attack (1-5 frames dashing then attack).

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yeah, dash attack is easy to pull off, I tried it out.