How do I do a Barrel Roll? ~ Fox Q&A (Check the OP)

[Player-3]

If you plan on playing Fox Powershield>OOSUpsmash is a guaranteed punish for almost just about any move from the cast. (It's sexy too. lol)

i do play fox!


wait till my vids from the tournament last weekend come up, i beat DRN with him :D (well.. his ZSS, then he went falco and i lost but i beat him with luigi game 3)

i should have at least taken reflex to game 3 but i sd'd at 11% because he mashed out so fast of a grab at 0 (when i had a full stock lead on him) and i buffered illusion on accident

it was still really really close though, but wafted at 80

 

[Player-1]

hey guys.



we still discussin' how fox is a bad character?

 

[knuckles213]

i do play fox!


wait till my vids from the tournament last weekend come up, i beat DRN with him :D (well.. his ZSS, then he went falco and i lost but i beat him with luigi game 3)

i should have at least taken reflex to game 3 but i sd'd at 11% because he mashed out so fast of a grab at 0 (when i had a full stock lead on him) and i buffered illusion on accident

it was still really really close though, but wafted at 80

I want to reflex and learn some PT

hey guys.



we still discussin' how fox is a bad character?

Naw, just dicussin how all diddy users eat alot of bananas and walk on all fours lol

 

[Kuares]

Naw, just dicussin how all diddy users eat alot of bananas and walk on all fours lol

Ha, nice.

In anycase, ya'll seem to be going off on a tangent. This discussion belongs in the social. Go talk about how bad fox is there.

 

[Jet300]

hey guys.



we still discussin' how fox is a bad character?

No, were discussin' how many bananas diddy can suck at one time.

 

[Player-1]

that's a lot of bananas

 

[hichez50]

I bet fox can suck more.

 

[Shinymonkey8]

Can Fox suck more? (Q&A thread guys)

 

[Orion*]

ehh whatever

he's not god LMAO. like he's a great player and i'm really happy i got to meet him briefly at apex and even play him in teams but cmon.

WHY? and stay on topic

Even though it was a tangent overall it was on topic. Saying can happen is literally garbage reasoning. It is a fact in that anything can happen... but that doesnt give anyone an excuse for playing like ***, or not knowing what their characters options are.

Thats my example, whats your question?

It's a really weird in game scenario

I'll say half is true (your're right nobody has mastered fox not even TKD)

Then it's not half true

no one is taking the time to actually master fox (well at least not anymore), and there probably many reasons why that may be.

Insert like 90-95% of the cast in this statement please

even a non-fox main as your self can guess why, hell I see more people now pick him up as a secondary and not a main.

Even with MK gone in a new metagame (which is worse for fox imo), Very few people are going to hard main a character with unwinnable MU's. He's a solid and great character for secondary use so it makes perfect sense.

Flow chart fox

Flow chart any character will not win games vs top players that understand the MU.

hey as long you can win and prove that you are a skilled player with masterey of your character.... cool

Winning =/= winning consistently at high level.

There are plenty of people that "can" win. Like literally in every region even the most garbage I've seen people that are capable of taking home gold. Doesn't mean they do.

Well put. Basic meta game is one thing but if you're going to be the same book like everyone else on the shelves you are going to be put down really quickly.

Yes and no.
If you don't think then yes. If you do think you automatically will be creative, or at least make reads. Playing safe or smart, and knowing those options doesn't take that ability away from you, and in fact many times it's quite harder to do things that way in short term, because players will learn to beat them. But in the long run being able to apply everything is important.

Most top players have a sort of flow chart, in that they commonly use x option to beat y option a majority of the time in MU's they understand. Or when they get X hit, they do X setups based on what they think you will do next to get max punishment.

"Never give up."

I felt like you did vs vVv zero
made me sad to watch on youtube

Just do that and you'll be fine. It's not like people can read your mind or w/e unless your showing off how technical you are.

Daigoooo

 

[Zeton]

There are matches with me vs vVv Zero?

Or are you referring to Trevonte.

 

[knuckles213]

he's not god LMAO. like he's a great player and i'm really happy i got to meet him briefly at apex and even play him in teams but cmon.

never said he was, just has interesting logic about characters

Even though it was a tangent overall it was on topic. Saying can happen is literally garbage reasoning. It is a fact in that anything can happen... but that doesnt give anyone an excuse for playing like ***, or not knowing what their characters options are.

True, still anything can happen no matter what (for example: tripping I dont need to explain)

Then it's not half true

I dont know about that, gotta take all charaters in consideration, I see alot more data on other boards then the fox boards that look complete to me. (some pages are very long to read)

Insert like 90-95% of the cast in this statement please

80%

Even with MK gone in a new metagame (which is worse for fox imo), Very few people are going to hard main a character with unwinnable MU's. He's a solid and great character for secondary use so it makes perfect sense.

Probably is worse for fox and I do see people picking up characters worse for fox, all that just going to do is make the (Very) few fox players strive hard to beating those MUs with fox. and yes fox does a secondary, but you dont need to pull them out everytime their a bad MU for fox/or just can't deal with a certain character. (just like other fighting game figure out a way to get around it)

Winning =/= winning consistently at high level.

There are plenty of people that "can" win. Like literally in every region even the most garbage I've seen people that are capable of taking home gold. Doesn't mean they do.

I know that, my point is strengthen your skills as a player and just win and you'll be fine

I felt like you did vs vVv zero
made me sad to watch on youtube



Daigoooo

???? those quotes were from zeton, I have never fought vVv zero (that was trevonte), and whats Daigo?

Plus, I never give up in a match and are going to WHOBO 4?

 

[Shinymonkey8]

) and whats Daigo?

SF player, one of the best from what I've seen.

 

[Zeton]

(In response to the postings before)

 

[Sarix]

Maybe it's just me but even the link to that gif isn't working.

 

[Shinymonkey8]

Maybe it's just me but even the link to that gif isn't working.

Not just you.

 

[Sarix]

Glad to know it wasn't.

 

[M@v]

vVv Zero ****ed me up lol.

Couldn't punish him for anything xD

 

[Orion*]

(In response to the postings before)

i definitely mixed you and trevonte up my bad LOOOL XD and i just cped the wrong quote head lololol

never said he was, just has interesting logic about characters

you didnt say he had interesting logic, you just said he would disagree with my point without providing a frame or reference other than his name.

True, still anything can happen no matter what (for example: tripping I dont need to explain)

hence my point of minimizing random **** and playing smart makes you Consistent.

I dont know about that, gotta take all charaters in consideration, I see alot more data on other boards then the fox boards that look complete to me. (some pages are very long to read)

I can't think of a character board that actually does what they should be doing at all bar the marth boards. Irregardless past a mid level point of play char boards most of the time aren't going to genuinely help you bar some decent discussion on occasion.

80%

Like really? I really could just argue the difference of 10% or so but... on a even more important point considering I didnt genuinely do math and posted an obvious example/generalization that was meant to show that most characters are clearly not mastered that you just post another generalization within a 10% difference? LMAO

anyway.
I could argue that NO character is mastered regardless of what you say, because there is literally NO player in this game that knows every mu and is completely technically proficient with their character.

Look at the most developed/popular characters in the game and this extremely obvious to anyone keeping up with character based metagames.

Diddy/ICs still aren't using the full technical potential aspect of their character and it will still be a while before they do.

Esam definitely has an overall mastery of pikachu but he doesnt know all of his MU's perfectly.

Wario/Marth rarely have top players touching them and are genuinely missing people to tap out what they can do.

The only good player that even hard mains snake anymore is razer, I do think that he is at the pinnacle of snakes metagame for the most part. But there are many matchups he obviously struggles with and could play a lot better in.

Falco literally only has DEHF at this point. At this time he's still quite rusty and even just watching/playing him at apex I could tell that he can still get better in his decision making.

Nietono / Otori for the most part at least from what I saw at apex had most of their **** down. But I really have no idea what they do in japan 99% of the time so instead of even trying to argue I can just give them knowing olimar/mk down. I dont even genuinely know where they could improve, so it's not my place to talk.

The further on the tier list you go down the less players there are and more likely the less developed said character is. There is not a single char. past Top that is even close to being mastered and you want to tell me 80% as in 1/5 chars? LMAO

 

[knuckles213]

hence my point of minimizing random **** and playing smart makes you Consistent.

I can play smart and consistent to where I'm thinking ahead of my opponent, but if something happens to me that was not predicted, I'm gonna be alittle mad. (examples Frigate: stage flip kill and side platform kill, Pictochat transformation kill) (even I'm not going to choose these levels and this is not just limited to stages either)

I can't think of a character board that actually does what they should be doing at all bar the marth boards. Irregardless past a mid level point of play char boards most of the time aren't going to genuinely help you bar some decent discussion on occasion.


Like really? I really could just argue the difference of 10% or so but... on a even more important point considering I didnt genuinely do math and posted an obvious example/generalization that was meant to show that most characters are clearly not mastered that you just post another generalization within a 10% difference? LMAO

anyway.
I could argue that NO character is mastered regardless of what you say, because there is literally NO player in this game that knows every mu and is completely technically proficient with their character.

Look at the most developed/popular characters in the game and this extremely obvious to anyone keeping up with character based metagames.

Diddy/ICs still aren't using the full technical potential aspect of their character and it will still be a while before they do.

Esam definitely has an overall mastery of pikachu but he doesnt know all of his MU's perfectly.

Wario/Marth rarely have top players touching them and are genuinely missing people to tap out what they can do.

The only good player that even hard mains snake anymore is razer, I do think that he is at the pinnacle of snakes metagame for the most part. But there are many matchups he obviously struggles with and could play a lot better in.

Falco literally only has DEHF at this point. At this time he's still quite rusty and even just watching/playing him at apex I could tell that he can still get better in his decision making.

Nietono / Otori for the most part at least from what I saw at apex had most of their **** down. But I really have no idea what they do in japan 99% of the time so instead of even trying to argue I can just give them knowing olimar/mk down. I dont even genuinely know where they could improve, so it's not my place to talk.

The further on the tier list you go down the less players there are and more likely the less developed said character is. There is not a single char. past Top that is even close to being mastered and you want to tell me 80% as in 1/5 chars? LMAO

ToonLink, Peach, DDD, ICs, DK, G&W, etc they may not have top players or may be even Fully mastered, but they do have enough to be mastered at the moment; and again people are just lazy lol. But I can agree with you on most things, may not everything.

come to whobo 4 so I can get to play you


SK92 mains Falco

 

[C.R.Z]

falco does not have SK92 dude lol

 

[*CT*]

....I know I'm a bit tired from insomnia...but this makes no sense

First you say this:
"ToonLink, Peach, DDD, ICs, DK, G&W, etc they may not have top players or may be even Fully mastered"

Then you say this:
"but they do have enough to be mastered at the moment"

I don't really think mastery is based on time...I don't even think a pinnacle of perfection (PoT herp derp reference) is possible with all the MUs. Like what is there enough of for them to be mastered? Enough frame data? MU data? ....

 

[Orion*]

I can play smart and consistent to where I'm thinking ahead of my opponent, but if something happens to me that was not predicted, I'm gonna be alittle mad. (examples Frigate: stage flip kill and side platform kill, Pictochat transformation kill) (even I'm not going to choose these levels and this is not just limited to stages either)

You don't even understand what I'm talking about conceptually in relation to this i give up...

ToonLink, Peach, DDD, ICs, DK, G&W, etc they may not have top players or may be even Fully mastered, but they do have enough to be mastered at the moment; and again people are just lazy

Literally every character in this game has the potential to be mastered if players where not lazy, so what you're saying is extremely moot at best. I could literally post the same **** about bowser, yet it would be irrelevant until someone does it. In reality you didn't even respond to what I said. It literally was like

"X characters haven't been mastered, I don't see how you can argue so many characters have been fleshed out like that"
"But Q characters have the potential to be regardless of their tournament viability or the amount of people playing them"

Thanks LMAO

come to whobo 4 so I can get to play you

That's very inspiring

SK92 Falco a has too

I dont even know what this is in regards to

....I know I'm a bit tired from insomnia...but this makes no sense

First you say this:
"ToonLink, Peach, DDD, ICs, DK, G&W, etc they may not have top players or may be even Fully mastered"

Then you say this:
"but they do have enough to be mastered at the moment"

I don't really think mastery is based on time...I don't even think a pinnacle of perfection (PoT herp derp reference) is possible with all the MUs. Like what is there enough of for them to be mastered? Enough frame data? MU data? ....

Like. I don't think he understands himself but w/e.
I do think it's possible to learn and understand every MU. However in a community like this, especially considering how grass roots and local based we are it is extremely unlikely for most players to consider that. (I do think there is a correlation with wifi breeding good players and this though.)

In games like SF you have to learn matchups more deeply across the cast or you will get bodied by random *** setups/characters so I don't really see why it's so out of reach in smash.

 

[knuckles213]

sorry for the miscommunication, I rather have discussion like this in person (they go a lot better/smoother).

....I know I'm a bit tired from insomnia...but this makes no sense

First you say this:
"ToonLink, Peach, DDD, ICs, DK, G&W, etc they may not have top players or may be even Fully mastered"

Then you say this:
"but they do have enough to be mastered at the moment"

I don't really think mastery is based on time...I don't even think a pinnacle of perfection (PoT herp derp reference) is possible with all the MUs. Like what is there enough of for them to be mastered? Enough frame data? MU data? ....

those were just examples
what I'm trying to get at is that those characters may not have top players or may not be even fully mastered, but they have enough options (maybe even more, I dont know I dont play those characters) to closely looking like they are mastered.

You don't even understand what I'm talking about conceptually in relation to this i give up...

oh I do, I think we just don't see eye to eye

Literally every character in this game has the potential to be mastered if players where not lazy, so what you're saying is extremely moot at best. I could literally post the same **** about bowser, yet it would be irrelevant until someone does it. In reality you didn't even respond to what I said. It literally was like

"X characters haven't been mastered, I don't see how you can argue so many characters have been fleshed out like that"
"But Q characters have the potential to be regardless of their tournament viability or the amount of people playing them"

Thanks LMAO

Same thing I said to CT

That's very inspiring

Not really, I just want to meet/play different players whenever I get a chance.

I dont even know what this is in regards to

Sorry made a typo, Sk92 is a falco player from Nevada area (Better than DEFH imo)

if still dont know who he is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GFM3h9XUWQ

Like. I don't think he understands himself but w/e.
I do think it's possible to learn and understand every MU. However in a community like this, especially considering how grass roots and local based we are it is extremely unlikely for most players to consider that. (I do think there is a correlation with wifi breeding good players and this though.)

In games like SF you have to learn matchups more deeply across the cast or you will get bodied by random *** setups/characters so I don't really see why it's so out of reach in smash.

I understand myself and what your saying, I think we just don't eye to on certain things.

yes I can agree that we should learn and understand every MU because it will help lead to playing solid and winning consistantly, plus helping you understand your own weaknesses and your character's weakness.

Wifi does breed good players, I'm against tho because affect gameplay (because the lag and because you can play the same online as you would offline) a bit, especially certain characters. I would play wifi more often if it were the same as offline (and didn't hinder my character); I'd probably be on AiB a lot more.

 

[crifer]

you´re like the only person on this world who thinks that SK92 > DEHF ...

kinda like that Orion and CRZ are more active here lately ;-)

 

[C.R.Z]

you´re like the only person on this world who thinks that SK92 > DEHF ...

kinda like that Orion and CRZ are more active here lately ;-)

get use to it son

 

[knuckles213]

you´re like the only person on this world who thinks that SK92 > DEHF ...

kinda like that Orion and CRZ are more active here lately ;-)

well I haven't seen DEHF falco in a while do much


and yea Orion and CRZ have been on here actively lately lol,

 

[DellSmashman]

Will Fox be able to force an air release if he pummels immediately after a grab?

 

[Chef Fox]

He has to catch an airborne character with his grab, then pummel immediately for it to work. Though the only character I know this works on is Meta Knight.

 

[knuckles213]

He has to catch an airborne character with his grab, then pummel immediately for it to work. Though the only character I know this works on is Meta Knight.

it work on dedede as well, I just don't know whats the data on that. not sure because of the angle he was at or it just works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR7ZliJmKjY

1:02

 

[Chef Fox]

Fox did not grab Dedede out of the air in your example and we cannot force an air release on Dedede. The Dedede player in the video broke out of the grab himself and while he was mashing buttons he hit a jump button which caused the air release.

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it if Fox grabs Dedede in the air and buffers a pummel, Dedede immediately ground releases. I believe it is possible to grab Dedede again without fail, he goes into some weird animation that makes this possible.. Zero Suit Samus has an infinite based on this weird grab release mechanic with Dedede and it seems like this glitch only happens to the King.

 

[Skadorski]

Any advice for platform cancelling with Fox? I can't find where fox is supposed to Dair exactly.

 

[fox67890]

Any advice for platform cancelling with Fox? I can't find where fox is supposed to Dair exactly.

The following information is quoted from here:

It has previously been documented that a player can platform cancel using C-Stick down, down + specials, down + shield, or simply tapping down on the analog stick and returning the stick to neutral at the appropriate time. It is also possible to platform cancel by holding down on the analog stick and tapping the C-Stick in any direction. If you hold down and a horizontal direction on the analog stick, it is possible to buffer a dash straight out of platform cancel if combined with a C-Stick input.

By doing this, it creates an interesting option select. For example, certain characters do not have a safe Dair for platform cancelling (see IC's/TL/etc). Improper execution of a platform cancel offstage on a level such as Smashville would almost mean certain death. By using the alternate C-Stick method, you can safeguard your platform cancel with an alternate aerial in the event you fail to execute the technique. This adds another available option other than the accidental Dairs, Down Specials, Air Dodges, or Empty hops that might normally occur with present techniques.
_____________________

In other words, I recommend using Bair to platform cancel rather than Dair. The method of buffering a dash straight out of a platform cancel is also very useful for fox.

As for the timing of it on SV, it's relatively quick. You just have to be fast. When fox is slightly above the platform (at least I think that's when), that is the time to input a command for a platform cancel.

Practice makes perfect though.

 

[Jet300]

Any advice for platform cancelling with Fox? I can't find where fox is supposed to Dair exactly.

It's very easy. Every time when full jump
with fox, he'll say "shoot." And that gives you the moment to D-air on the platform.

 

[Talon]

He has to catch an airborne character with his grab, then pummel immediately for it to work. Though the only character I know this works on is Meta Knight.

You get a free Usmash against Wario from a grab release. Pretty useful fore free damage. grab releasing MK leads to a free Usmash as well though I you have to be quick about it. Wario just releases straight into the air for some odd reason

 

[crifer]

You get a free Usmash against Wario from a grab release. Pretty useful fore free damage. grab releasing MK leads to a free Usmash as well though I you have to be quick about it. Wario just releases straight into the air for some odd reason

only works if they input a jump command while being grabbed.
against wario you have like anything...fair, dair (to grab/utilt/jab), uair etc.

 

[AO2]

Who is the best fox??

 

[AO2]

And why the hell does my name say smash rookie...pretty sure im the best fox besides tkd im not a rookie.....

 

[Kuares]

Who is the best fox??

Yui, a japanese fox main. Then it's TKD I believe and smash rookie describes your post count.

 

[Zeton]

^ this.

This is why I don't bother anymore lol.

 

[Player-1]

I'm actually the best Fox :3