How do I do a Barrel Roll? ~ Fox Q&A (Check the OP)

[Jet300]

im picking up fox, how should i rack up damage early in a stock?

Use SHD-air combos or camp your foe with SHTL or SHSL

 

[MasterGorf]

What can shine be used for besides reflecting projectiles?

 

[crifer]

What can shine be used for besides reflecting projectiles?

mainly stoping your momentum in the air.
Though I would like to say that you should use it rarely because a lot of foxes have bad habits while overusing reflector, which cancels momentum.

edgeguarding, positioning yourself for aerials, baiting, stalling, pressuring.

 

[fox67890]

im picking up fox, how should i rack up damage early in a stock?

This is imo.
Obvious things aside (like lasers), you should really try to capitalize whenever you land a singe hit and attempt to string it into another. The second you gain momentum, you should try to keep it. So if you like, dash attack your opponent, follow up instead of running away (imo imo imo). Good ways to gain momentum as fox include: dash attack, walk+block (into grab), and skid grab. Grabbing and down throwing in general feels good, especially if you can follow up with strings of attacks. I'm not sure if I answered your question though...
________________________

What can shine be used for besides reflecting projectiles?

Shine is one of our best moves! It's very good and very unique. This is a list of its uses:

• Stopping yourself from falling, more than once! For example, Mario's cape only works once and has more cool-down. Some obvious examples of its utility are a Mach Tornado or a smash attack being charged up below you...and even allows repositioning, or punishment with a well-timed fast-fall aerial as soon as the opponent's cool-down sets in. It also resets your fast-fall, if you find that useful.
• Reseting your aerial drifting. If you're drifting into your opponent, who attempts to juggle you, you can shine and regain control over your drifting, so you can switch directions without it being telegraphed. For example, you're put into a position where you can perform an air-dodge or aerial into the opponent, but you shine. Then, since it's ambiguous whether you'll drift into or away from the opponent since there's possibility for either, a much broader mix-up sets in. It's one of the reasons Fox is one of the toughest chars to juggle.
• Turn around in the air. This is a very quick way of doing it. Useful to face the direction you want to airjump fair into, or to set up an aerial like back air.
• Countering projectile games. Shine has two anti-projectile characteristics: It reflects them into the opposite direction, now under your control; and it allows you to roll, spot-dodge or hop (my favorite) as soon as you've reflected a projectile. Some specifics: you can shine R.O.B.'s projectiles on reaction (when he begins a move's animation at a range only a projectile would be reasonably inputed), you can't cancel out of reflecting Pikmin (so Olimar has, in my opinion, a big advantage when far away), and I don't think you can re-direct Pit's arrows after gaining control over them.
• Activate invincibility frames. Shine's hitbox comes out on frame 3, and from input to said moment, Fox becomes invincible. A buffered shine can be a clutch way of escaping some wrongly inputed loops; mostly things your opponents are not buffering. Also, you can shine Snake's grenades while under his control, cause the explosion, and not get damaged. This can fail because the duration of hitboxes extends when they hit something, though (the explosion has hit me after being extended by contact on Snake's shield. I don't know if this depends on spacing). If you're very flashy, you can even hop into a mine and shine it just before you contact it: you'll invincibly blow it up if you touch it with shine's hitbox.
• The shine can be used to gimp several characters, for example you can counter Falco's fire by blocking its trajectory with it, or counter his air-jump nair from the ledge by walking into him and executing it. Other chars vulnerable to shine "spikes" that I remember right now are Ike and the Links. You can react to Diddy's upb with downb if he releases into you...I've done jab, straight, shine vs Snake and Falco to force them to upb too. Jabs until the opponent wastes an air-jump, then a shine is a sneaky way to put them in trouble.
• Shine is our best way to ledge-stall. Letting go of the ledge, air-jumping into it and shining before holding it again; is quicker than waiting for a full air-jump to grab it again. If it's actually too early to grab the ledge again for a ledgehog, you can shine again before grabbing the ledge.
• Wall locks: At low enough percentage for the opponent not to fall over by it, you can shine repeatedly as a combo. I've seen it work in the air against the stage Yoshi's Story, but it can be smash DI'd. There's a chance this doesn't work at all with SDI x4 (QCDI+C-stick), but it's worked for me on Stadium's wall.
• Some combos that I don't use involve shine.

 

[MasterGorf]

Thanks! I've been trying to find more ways to incorporate it into my game, this will help a lot.

 

[- rko -]

Hopefully u guys can help me out on this. Im pretty sure there are no WiiChuck users up in here, but I must ask: what type of control configuration should u use for the WiiChuck to be able to triple laser cancel consistently?

 

[lionarmor]

Hopefully u guys can help me out on this. Im pretty sure there are no WiiChuck users up in here, but I must ask: what type of control configuration should u use for the WiiChuck to be able to triple laser cancel consistently?

I use the default 'c' to jump and 'B' for special, it seems to work very well.

alternatives could be 'z' for special, 'B' for jump, and c for shield,
but that just sucks

any specific problem with the default control?

 

[- rko -]

Then Im prolly doin sumthin wrong. The problem I have most of the time is that I cant triple laser cancel on my first jump. It always comes out either the 2nd or 3rd jump. And I can only pull it off out of a stationary position and not while moving around.

 

[fox67890]

/\ Then that's probably because the first time you do an SHTL, you're not firing the laser immediately right after you jump. The reason you're getting it the second/third time is because once you get in the rhythm of the cycle, you'll buffer the jump unconsciously. If you feel it's to hard to master on the first try, you can do a SHSL and then SHTL from there.

Could you describe your problem with movement? Are you doing random illusions or something else?

 

[- rko -]

Lets just say I cant retreat or move forward while triple laser canceling, because then the silent laser wont come out. I can only do it while standing in one place and thats only on my 2nd/3rd jump, probably because of the explaining you just gave above.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Hello. I am realatively new to Fox. I was wondering if my common approach methods are legit:

SHD-Air to Jab, Grab/Shine/D-Smash - This one is pretty common
SHF-Air to same as above
SHN-Air to the same as above

I'll sometimes Dash attack to a few U-Tilt strings at very low percentages to variate a bit more.

And I SH double laser but the lasers don't hit most of the time because they're too high even though I SH. ):

 

[fox67890]

Hello. I am realatively new to Fox. I was wondering if my common approach methods are legit:

SHD-Air to Jab, Grab/Shine/D-Smash - This one is pretty common
SHF-Air to same as above
SHN-Air to the same as above

I'll sometimes Dash attack to a few U-Tilt strings at very low percentages to variate a bit more.

And I SH double laser but the lasers don't hit most of the time because they're too high even though I SH. ):

Fox's best approaches are skid grab (walk/run[while you're in the running animation, not the dash start up]+shield grab) and dash attack. (imo)

Approaching with dair isn't a good idea because it has short range and the same goes for nair. Approaching with fair could work, but it would only work against taller characters, since you'll actually fair over a small/medium sized characters. If you get lucky though, you might be able to cross up and land behind them. From that position, turn around grabbing and reverse utilt are good (I recommend grabbing though since people usually expect utilt when you land behind their shield).

Skid grab is good because Fox has the best walk in the game. He only walks slightly slower than Marth (who has the fastest walk I think), but unlike him, he slides a bit from one. This allows him to walk+block+shield grab into some attacks. There's also a chance you might power shield something. As long as you change the rhythm of using this technique, then it's a good approach. This works with walking and while in the running animation. Don't underestimate walking though.

Dash attack...
Two things about this move:

1) Make sure you know your opponent character's options before you go for the typical flow chart fox maneuver (dash attack>utilt). Some characters like MK, Yoshi, and Luigi can actually nair you right after you dash attack and before you can get the chance to throw a utilt out at low percents.
2) Contrary to popular belief, Fox gains options as the opponent's percents rises from a dash attack. While you can dash attack> utilt "x" amount of times at lower percents, at medium percents, you can dash attack them and literally react to whatever they'll do from there (airdoge/throw out aerial/jump/etc).

If they air dodge, catach their landing with utilt/dair(if they're close enough)/grab/ dash attack again.

If they throw out an aerial, you can usually:
Shield it+unblock+dash upsmash/ dash attack
If their aerial is a laggy one, just wait outside their range and dash attack their cooldown (aerial specific though).

If they jump/etc, react accordingly. Juggle opportunity if they jump.

If you have SH auto canceled up-air mastered, then you can cover air-dodging to the ground very well since AC Uair>enemy airdodges>you grab/utilt/dsmash/and sometimes upsmash is a frame trap (as long as the the air dodge is not fast falled...which it shouldn't be if you just dash attacked them at around medium percents).

Spoiler

I don't think most people know this.

So in summary, you're best approaches are skid grab and dash attack. SH fair could work against taller opponents like ROB(make sure to always autocancel it). From there, it's really just changing the timing/rhythm of what you do. Don't approach recklessly though, as you can obviously camp opponents too. Mixing up between lasering and approaching when they don't expect it is what works for me.
This is all general though.

I'm sorry for like, a wall of text for a relatively simple question. It's just that approaching with dair sounds like a 09' Fox thing and Fox has better options than that. Many people under-rate him for those flowchart things, so I just wanted to clear it up a bit.

Oh, and out of a dair, you should really only use Grab, utilt, upsmash, and downsmash(to see which works at what percents, check Uzi's stickied thread). Using shine isn't too good because it doesn't give much damage/fewer follow-ups/ and may not actually land due to shine's short range. Using jab isn't good because after one single jab, your at a frame disadvantage, so you might as well go for something more rewarding.

If you just started to use Fox though, it's important to find your own unique play-style. You'll learn advanced things later from experience and practice.

Sorry for the wall of text and grammatical erros and stuff. Kinda in a rush...

edit:
>.> Forgot one thing...

Out of SHSL,SHDL, and SHTL, SHDL is actually the worst.
SHSL is better than SHDL/SHTL in that it provides a lot more mobility. The only way to move with SHDL/SHTL is through fox trots. This laser tech requires the least amount of commitment.
SHTL is better than SHDL/SHSL in that it actually provides the most lasers obviously.

If you're looking for mobility, SHSL.
If you're looking for damage output, SHTL (if you can. It takes practice to master it).
There really isn't much of an intermediate between the two since SHTL and SHDL require pretty much the same level of commitment.

 

[Regin]

I was going against a MK the other day. Whenever he'd use his b-neutral I tried F-air on it and it broke through 90% of the time. Idk if this only works after the tornado is past the startup frames or if it is really guaranteed. Any insight?

 

[Wusi]

I was going against a MK the other day. Whenever he'd use his b-neutral I tried F-air on it and it broke through 90% of the time. Idk if this only works after the tornado is past the startup frames or if it is really guaranteed. Any insight?

I'm pretty sure it depends on where you hit him with your fair. Should be like where MK's body is located (at the feet of the nado).
Personally, I don't recommend using that as an answer to nado, You can nair and dair him from above right inside the center. Though, if you happen to get caught in the nado as you fair, Fox should manage to get out while eating 5% at best, Keep hitting up to DI out of it and Nair/Dair.

 

[Regin]

I'm pretty sure it depends on where you hit him with your fair. Should be like where MK's body is located (at the feet of the nado).
Personally, I don't recommend using that as an answer to nado, You can nair and dair him from above right inside the center. Though, if you happen to get caught in the nado as you fair, Fox should manage to get out while eating 5% at best, Keep hitting up to DI out of it and Nair/Dair.

Alright cool, figured I was just getting lucky hits on the weak points. Thanks for posting extra insight into this MU too.

 

[fox67890]

I believe you can just hold up instead of tapping it rapidly (you can't SDI nado I think). If you pop out of nado and your not in the right position to hit him with an aerial from above, you can shine stall right after you pop out and than land with a soft nair, which beats nado from above and could possibly true combo into upsmash at kill percents.

 

[Regin]

I believe you can just hold up instead of tapping it rapidly (you can't SDI nado I think). If you pop out of nado and your not in the right position to hit him with an aerial from above, you can shine stall right after you pop out and than land with a soft nair, which beats nado from above and could possibly true combo into upsmash at kill percents.

Oh man thanks a lot.

Also, does anyone here have any kind of great insight for the ICs mu? I know the typical *get better and don't get grabbed* but I need a little bit more than that, especially since I don't have many good ICs players to practice against. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz2wepCpeMI *video of TKD going against ICs -though they aren't that great-*

 

[fox67890]

Oh man thanks a lot.

Also, does anyone here have any kind of great insight for the ICs mu? I know the typical *get better and don't get grabbed* but I need a little bit more than that, especially since I don't have many good ICs players to practice against. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz2wepCpeMI *video of TKD going against ICs -though they aren't that great-*

I kinda doubt any Fox knows it (besides TKD) since it's fox's worst MU and most are too afraid to play it/switch to another character to win. Next time I play it, I'll look more into it.

Buuuut, here's some information for now.

Ice Climbers
IC have a lot of tricks. And they all work real well on Fox. So on to the tricks.
Desynch, ice block is easy to deal with, as you can reflect the single block and short-hop cancel, to do whatever you wish to do next. The opponent may mix up with desynch ice block into desynch blizzard into dashgrab, so watch out for that (it'll be easy to see). Another mix-up is the opponent jumping instead of dashing into you behind the ice block, in hopes of intercepting your hop from shine. Not hopping into the climber when he takes the air will be good, and an opponent in the air is a good opening for you. I just thought of desynch ice block into dash, RAR bair, but I'll worry about that when I see it. Shining the ice block is a good opportunity to hop into IC and into their backside to open them, as it is also a good opportunity to hit one with a well spaced delayed nair (delayed well enough for the opponent not to powerblock it; if you think he can, either space nair farther away or don't execute it). If the opponent is careless about desynching, or does it into you (with dash away, toward you, special; instead of toward, away + pivot special), he gives openings for random dash usmashes and stuff, so take the clear chances if they're given often.

Bair is pretty good on IC once in awhile. If necessary, delayed enough to avoid the opponent's powerblock and to allow the most drifting.
Mostly this match-up requires patience, because you can't really let your guard down and still win like in other match-ups. You should avoid being grabbed, but also remember that you need to learn how to struggle so the opponent has a tough time trying to chaingrab you. If he tries a 2ble climber cg, it should be impossible for the opponent to begin it from a dashgrab (too much cool-down on the helper climber) unless he begins the cg with solo climber dthrows. Any time the opponent has to dash grab you with the main climber can be an opportunity to escape.

As for grabbing the Climbers, use fthrow. It crashes a climber into the other. The rest of Fox's throws will result in you being hit with a smash attack. Grabbing IC is pretty good, Fox's grab range is bigger and he zones and spaces better with the shorthop and better walk and stuff.

In general I like to begin interaction with lasers and adapt to whatever the opponent does. Standing rapid lasers are good when IC are far away, as they can't do much about that. Spacing around their range and running away works very well, as the climbers are not too fast a character. Standard juggling applies to them, and they're not a difficult juggle either. Focus on the main climber: if it's controlled via juggling, both of them are: the helper climber will never think it up and grab you or smash you, it'll just keep hopping into the main one. If the main Climber can't do anything about it, it's good to kick the crap out of the other though. Don't let a solo climbers grab you at low percentage, it means either a powerful and long chaingrab, or worse, the same while waiting for the helper climber to regroup. So you'll avoid being grabbed for most of the match: when they're grouped and when you have low %.

Learn to follow the CPU climber when she's alone. She has a pattern, allowing real combos and sometimes easy edgeguards (depending on the participation of the other one, but it's usually good allowing that one to hit you in exchange for knocking the partner out). Also, the helper's carelessness allows you to usually have racked up enough damage to suddenly KO with usmash (if the climber is outside of control range, it won't DI either). The main climber is vulnerable during upb and allows you to hit him after he's thrown his helper in front of him. This can mean a downb, a dair that's not fast-fallen, or i don't know. Their sideb doesn't sweetspot the ledge until freefall, so you can take advantage of it too.

IC players will usually uair to chase you when you're avoiding them. You can either sort of space away in the air and land on them with a nair, bair or whatever, or run away usually. The best you can probably do is powerblock it from a platform and drop with an aerial.

Those are his words, not mine, so I'm guessing it works.

Onto other stuff...

If you manage to kill nana, and only popo is left, you still have to be careful because he has a lethal dthrow CG, that works all the way to 0%-87%. It should be noted though, that if the solo CG is begun above 42% for the first time, then the CG won't work. If you want, you can platform camp and laser at opportunities and wait till you get to 43% to play normally.

If ICs are together and they Up+B to the ledge, wait till Nana snaps onto it. Immediately, run off stage and shine stall the position where Nana is on the ledge (Nana won't get hit by it though, but...). Popo will then move to try and attempt to grab the ledge, but will get hit by the shine stall (Popo is vulnerable during Up+B) and fall to his death (Nana stays on the ledge Lol). This probably sounds a bit confusing, but just try it on a CPU or something first and you might understand.

On Battlefield (maybe SV also, not sure), SH rising Up airs from ICs are shield grab-able from the middle platforms. After you do this, you should back throw them immediately. It looks like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=quVRu-cF5MM#t=23s

Imo, this is the only MU where dair>shine is actually helpful (make sure the shine is in range after the dair though! [And of course for them not to shield the dair] If not, run away after the dair or maybe short hopt behind them). If they leave an opening and are by the edge, shining them to get them offstage is very good because Up+B to the ledge gets us a stock (I explained this earlier) while using squall hammer to recover is punishable.

If you grab Popo out of the air and immediately pummel, you'll force an air release which true combos into upsmash.
You should watch this if you haven't: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KLbsVbRIFlU#t=135s
I mentioned some ways in that video to set this up. It could net you a kill if you do it right.

The least time I played this MU, I had a hard time. I'd like to one day try again though. I don't know all of this info when I originally played it.

That's all I know. Good luck~

 

[knuckles213]

I believe you can just hold up instead of tapping it rapidly (you can't SDI nado I think). If you pop out of nado and your not in the right position to hit him with an aerial from above, you can shine stall right after you pop out and than land with a soft nair, which beats nado from above and could possibly true combo into upsmash at kill percents.

are any of your matches up?

Oh man thanks a lot.

Also, does anyone here have any kind of great insight for the ICs mu? I know the typical *get better and don't get grabbed* but I need a little bit more than that, especially since I don't have many good ICs players to practice against. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz2wepCpeMI *video of TKD going against ICs -though they aren't that great-*

I'm not really and expert on the MU and probably suck on explaining things, but I've had to dealt with these guys in the past; no one really has helped me this MU other than Zeton, its just the **** i've seen happen or have had to deal with
well I wouldn't go off this vid on how to deal with ICs, this MU is really about, Patience, baiting, being aggressive when apprioate, and punishing, camping isn't nesscesary, but it helps a little. and Maybe some gimmicks if you have some.

First off you have to pick good stages in MU give you the edge or at least to were your able to run away for a bit; Stages I recommend: BF, SV, LC, PS2, and maybe YI.

Being fox (if your bold enough to play this MU) you have to have a good Platform Strategy for baiting and punishing. the one thing ICs want is to grab you and get the kill by CG AND THEY WILL REMEMBER YOUR PATTERN OF HOW YOU PLAY/RUN AWAY and try to bait you or read you. To help this explaination go smooth, I'm gonna use BF as for the example so think of you on BF when I use a example of tactics. Always remember "Kill the *****, camp the bro"

What fox has over the ICs is Speed, Bair, shine, and lasers so make use of those. when it comes to lasering, the best lasers to use in this MU is SHDL and SHSL, you could use triple laser, but it you haven't play a really good ICs player then don't risk leaving opening for your opponent to punish you (only use it if you and your opponent are at opposite ends of the stage). for the most part your going to be sitting/manuvering on platforms the entire time (have patience there is no rush) until there is and opening in which you can sneak a couple lasers in or punish their Whiffed attack. FIRST OFF NEVER BE SUPER AGGRESIVE OR JUST CHARGE AT THEM (and please just don't jump and dair at them )
More then likely when the battle starts they will either do the following: use neutral B (ice block), Dsync neutral B, Ice wall towards you, Dsync neutral B grab combo: Nana uses ice block while popo runs towards you to grab you and same can be applied with ice wall, or they'll just run at you/ run at you with all these in mind for a solid read. there's probably more, but I cant think of anything else at the moment. if your on a platform the ICs with probably Uair, Bair, Fair, Ice wall, side B (or some other trick) you to fall off the platform for a set up grab (they'll usually sit in shield and wait for you to get up or get up attack; be unpredictable, maybe roll away sometimes). when they try to Uair you from any platform you can drill them (Bair/Nair if quick enough) at the end phase of their attack other wise their Uair beats our Dair or at least trades with it, so try to come down on them from an angle with your dair so that it you can beat their Uair. when you've after you've drill them and your both on the ground you can do the follow: Dsmash (nice way to split them apart, but also very Punishable because they can just sheild it), Usmash (another way to split them apart and can send them fly for a follow up), Grab (the only grab you should ever do when there is two ICs is forward throw cause of its big knock back, Shine (its quick), Jump (sometimes you have to pull back), roll out the way (can be useful sometimes if your opponent is really good); try and mix it up a bit. Fox's Utilt is really good against them because it can split them apart which is what you have to do to win. You can bair them from a platform if they are under you and its safe on shield. also watch out for side B cause they spam that move if every else is not working for them or the player is try to save the other IC.

you wanna make the ICs do what you want them to do like make them play in a pattern which is easily punishable to split them. once they are split KILL NANA FIRST or if you can kill popo first, go right a ahead. rememeber Nana (the cpu) is dumb

when they are split apart that's when its time to be aggressive; ok lets say your split them apart and you don't know who to go to first, look at either IC and see who is in the worser position. Examples:

1) they they are both in the air above stage, go for nana (the cpu) with a Uair, Fair, or Bair

2) One IC is in the air (above stage) and the other is on the ground, depending if its either the human player or the cpu should determine a plan of action. Nana in air, popo on the ground: go for nana or push back popo so that you can kill nana. Popo in air, nana on the ground: kill nana

3) if they're both off stage: nana above popo: gimp popo, nana below popo gimp nana( be careful on gimping cause of ICs Up B, it can kill and gimp you and has extended invincibility frames on the ledge

4) if one IC is off stage actions will vary. Popo on stage and nana off stage: kill nana/gimp that ***** then stop popo from try to save here with up B, Nana on stage popo off stage: kill nana (when popo is off stage nana's actions is to rush to popo without thinking, she'll either run past you or jump over you to get to him (So you can punish to actions), nana always jumps when she get to the ledge Usmash her their or if you have a character that can spike, spike her down for a free kill)

5) can always grab one IC and let the other fall to their death if one is off stage and the other isn't, if you having a hard time trying to kill, plus you can always fake out the player.

Sopo is just as much of a threat is regular ICs because you can still be CG grabbed to Forward smash, but not that much (they will spot dodge alot), camp if you must, but other than that kick his ***. the main thing about this MU is splitting two apart and having an edge over your opponent; its hard at first, but after a while its not that bad.

I hope this somewhat helps you.

@anyone else: if I left out some things please tell me.

@Fox67 other foxes do know about MUs, most of them never share.

 

[fox67890]

I have no vids vs ICs.
Besides, I'm a wifi Fox. I kinda doubt there's anything you might want to see :\

Do you have a video of Fox vs ICs? That would actually help a lot.

 

[knuckles213]

I have no vids vs ICs.
Besides, I'm a wifi Fox. I kinda doubt there's anything you might want to see :\

Do you have a video of Fox vs ICs? That would actually help a lot.

well I meant regular vids of you. I dont have any ICs vids of me playing against them up, but I have other vids of me (not many). I'm always playing on a wii that cant save.

here a pretty good vid of the MU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx1tjjH7Rdc

 

[fox67890]

I have replays saved of me, but they are all wifi.
___________

Huh. Never saw that video. Gonna have to take notes lol
What's the best way to gimp an offstage Nana when separated? I want to say shine, but you may have to spend your double jump to do that sometimes.

 

[knuckles213]

Do more offline, so much freedom and no lag to screw with your play style.

____________


it depends on where nana is at when she is off stage; you can wait till she close to the ledge to gimp, but why wait when can kill her early.

If she above the stage when she is off, you can: fair her to death if it reaches (watch for ice block tho), Bair, Bair out of Shine, Uair (probably wont kill), grab the ledge and Bair from the ledge or grab the ledge wait tiil she almost on the stage then get on the stage and Usmash her (like Punishing Zelda's Up B), or grab the ledge and jump backwards and shine her (if she is in range).

If she below and mid-level to the stage you can: Shine, grab the ledge and Bair from the ledge, Nair, or grab popo and hold him (don't throw) and watch as nana fall to her death

But you also have to watch out for popo stopping you; some option you have: throw him the opposite direction, fool him into thinking your going to attack nana, but instead you baiting him to get closer to you so you throw out and attack that does knock back to him (who knows you might kill him and fox trot if you want so it catches him off guard), Dsmash, pivot grab, Bair, side smash, Ftilt, Utilt, etc.

to anwser your question Bair, but its risky

 

[fox67890]

I want to do offline, but I usually don't have the time too. I think I'm really going to try to get into it though.
________

Using Fair actually doesn't sound too bad now that I think about it. mmm...

"when they try to Uair you from any platform you can drill them (Bair/Nair if quick enough) at the end phase of their attack"

Does this mean that if they SH Uair us from below, there's enough time to platform drop> dair them during their cool-down?

 

[Jet300]

What ratio is the fox vs link MU? Is it +2 or +3 for fox?

 

[fox67890]

Personally or "officially"?
The MU chart has it as +2

 

[knuckles213]

I want to do offline, but I usually don't have the time too. I think I'm really going to try to get into it though.
________

Using Fair actually doesn't sound too bad now that I think about it. mmm...

"when they try to Uair you from any platform you can drill them (Bair/Nair if quick enough) at the end phase of their attack"

Does this mean that if they SH Uair us from below, there's enough time to platform drop> dair them during their cool-down?

for the Bair/Nair: when their at the peak of their Uair and then descending back to the ground, you have to space it and be quick other wise hit the will just trade

For the Dair you have angle it to beat their Uair.

its easier to do on a higher platform than a short one.

Although if I was a better player I would just Power shield their Uair to Punish with a grab or Down Smash, drop through the Platform to Bair/Nair or airdodge to Utlit/grab

 

[Wusi]

This probably has been asked a lot of times before, but what kind of naner tricks does Fox have on Diddy? Anything from a good damage racker to infinite is obviously appreciated.

 

[fox67890]

@ Swaka: I'm going to have to try that one of these days. That's good stuff to know.

This probably has been asked a lot of times before, but what kind of naner tricks does Fox have on Diddy? Anything from a good damage racker to infinite is obviously appreciated.

[collapse=Comments on Nana Lock for Diddy by TKD]PROVE that we have an infinite on diddy? Like every char does, those I've found for fox are these; they include 1, 2 and 3 consecutive footstools(before landing) respectively:

- short footstool with nana held + downtoss, fast-fall and catch while drifting into diddy, link to continuity
- short footstool with nana held + downtoss, drift into diddy while catching nana, short footstool again (you haven't touched the ground) plus nana catch (doesn't matter if you airdodge since you're going to the ground anyway), link to continuity
- short footstool with nana held + downtoss, drift into diddy while catching nana, LARGE footstool + downtoss, drift into diddy while catching nana, short footstool + downtoss (doesn't matter if you airdodge since you're going to the ground anyway), link into continuity​

Continuity links:

- downtoss a nana very close to diddy while your back faces him. during trip animation, this sends him into you. you can then short hop into diddy while catching nana + footstool
- footstool the tripped diddy and use whichever footstool downtoss variation you will. you'll need another method if you want to switch directions
- turn around and footstool the tripped diddy to switch directions of the infinite (like the first of these three methods)​

As for ideas to start it, either footstool openings (poor of him if he trips), or drop nana + recatch with dair into diddy, buffer turn-around downtoss upon connection of dair, begin infinite. There's also down toss from above into nana catch (while falling) into footstool, but for that the nana must've hit diddy directly, not after it being blocked or spot-dodged. way unlikely. People should find more openings.

About platforms:

- use shorter cycles for the infinite to avoid platforms
- smashville platforms: hold down so you don't occasionally land on it by bad luck if you want: though this requires more tech skill. learn to time/measure your cycle so you never do the first footstool onto the platform (otherwise it'll obstruct you). my method was to use turn around + double footstool (the first before it's here, the second, shorter one to pass beneath it). if double foot-stool wasn't enough to go all the way through it, i'd complete it with the triple one (which goes short footstool, big footstool, any footstool -the third is so short it doesn't matter much-).​

I once tried to record all of them, but my pc is too slow so the recording usually comes out horrible. I don't have the infinite practiced because I don't need it. I don't get to play vs. any Diddy.

It's a drag that a single match-up requires so much specific tech skill.[/collapse]

This is what one variation looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRmGZcMo14s&list=LL7aPwiX0Sp_a4qF_ahWK_4Q&index=24&feature=plpp_video

Some combos and tricks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KLbsVbRIFlU#t=257s

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Thank you, fox67890.
I should practice SHTL. I still have trouble SH'ing with Fox. Something as simple as that takes more effort than with other characters.

 

[Wusi]

Thank you, fox67890.
I should practice SHTL. I still have trouble SH'ing with Fox. Something as simple as that takes more effort than with other characters.

I sort of feel you, man. Once I started playing Melee for a bit though, I knew what shorthopping hell was. Fox or Samus is the hardest to short hop with in that game, and I still cant SH there consistently.
...That made it all the easier to SH in Brawl, though. I take it you're using a GCC? I don't use Tapjump (not sure if you do) so idk if that's any harder. just practice tapping it lightly once you do it subconsciously.

 

[fox67890]

Your welcome swei.
I never played melee competitivly, but I think I remember I had trouble shing in that game.

But Yeah, SH is very Important. Fox has a quick jump squat, so it's harder to do compared to other characters.



Edit: what control scheme do you use?

 

[knuckles213]

Thank you, fox67890.
I should practice SHTL. I still have trouble SH'ing with Fox. Something as simple as that takes more effort than with other characters.

well doing a SH is easy, just lightly press the jump button. make things easier press the jump button and watch the height of fox's jump so that you can see that your SHing or FHing

SHSL: I'm pretty you can do this, but if you can get your laser closer to the ground that would be even better

SHDL: there is actually a wrong way to do this and a right way to do this. the wrong way is if the lasers are flying over your opponent's head or if your getting a lagged laser. you want the lagless laser, to do so you must fire off your laser after the peak of your SH (decending to the ground) to get a gap between the top laser and the bottom laser. sometime you'll get a ghost laser where you wont hear the sound of the second laser (those ones are the best imo).

SHTL: this depends on the buffering of your SH and lasers for your control scheme and practice. I have mines set to d-pad cause its easy (its not as punishable as people think)
heres a thread deicated to SHTL
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=319566

I hope this helps

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I use Classic Controller.
I switch around the A/B buttons meaning B is for attacks and A for Specials. I have Tap Jump on and Attack/Special once again on the left shoulder buttons.

 

[Blondie.]

I wanna pick up fox as a fun pocket character and for mid tier tourneys, but I wanna play him extremely aggressive. Can he work as an extremely aggressive character?

 

[fox67890]

He's a hard character to master.

But to answer your question, yes, he can be played that way.

 

[BlindSpot]

I enjoy the aggressive Fox. Really entertaining.

I have a question though.
Why are silent lasers important?

 

[Conviction]

Hits short characters like Kirby and Olimar.

 

[BlindSpot]

Oh okay.

Thanks

 

[RPK]

Has there ever been any research on what you can punish with Usmash of all varieties? And also what it out prioritizes/trades with?