How do I do a Barrel Roll? ~ Fox Q&A (Check the OP)

[Chef Fox]

If they are shielding the shine, have you thought of following up with grab instead? Being completely serious homie lol

There are things to do if they are shielding, just stop using the shine as the auto-crutch and you'll see.

Yeah I do use grab, more than shine, and I try to mix it up with other moves too, but it just seems like the jabs are too easy to DI and punish. Example: I double jab Marth, he SDIs up and hits me with a Fair when I try to grab. This happens often to me, and I really don't see too many high level Foxes using Jab at all.

 

[Kuro~]

Jab is better against some characters than others.


For your marth situation...

Shield?

Jab jab and bait the fair/dolphin slash and punish.

 

[Conviction]

Yeah what Kuro said.

It's just a mix-up game kind of like when you have someone in street fighter in a knockdown.

 

[crifer]

doublejab or jjc is awesome against characters with bad OOS options like yoshi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIKl9rmXYZY#t=4m42s

 

[Conviction]

LOOOOOOOOOL@ Illusion Stage Spike!

 

[crifer]

LOOOOOOOOOL@ Illusion Stage Spike!

yoshis nose. too big.

won me the set :D

 

[knuckles213]

Does anyone use Jab Canceling with Fox? Do you guys think it's worthwhile or should I stop doing it. It seems like my regular opponents are getting to accustomed to punishing it or PSing the Shine but in tournament (against new players) it usually benefits me more than hinders me. Advice please?

try jab jab Usmash it surprisingly works

plus what I found interesting is that I fox has options for his jab jab combo

I only tested it on neutrals stages, I'm not sure if jab jab locks tho. it may hard to do on some characters as well to set up on moving targets.

jab jab grab (throw if you want)
jab jab grab (pummel until (no throws) release) then Ftilt
jab jab grab (pummel until (no throws) release) then quickly follow up with jab jab grab again (continuous until ledge)
jab jab shine
jab jab Dsmash
jab jab Usmash
jab jab Utilt
jab jab Ftilt
jab jab Dtilt
jab jab continuous until you get to the edge

Options near the edge
jab jab Dtilt
jab jab grab (throw)
jab jab SH Dair (be behind them after the Dair and continue to jab jab until at kill percent) (make sure your going the opposite direction you started jabbing)
jab jab Utilt (follow up with Bair)
jab jab SH Dair with a follow up with an Usmash behind them

 

[crifer]

try jab jab Usmash it surprisingly works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkxV2rkOHIc&feature=related#t=3m12s

yeah it works, I believe, if you jjc characters in the air and they land, which gives them -3 frames at least. if you count in the frames that they fall to the ground it can work.

 

[Jet300]

try jab jab Usmash it surprisingly works

plus what I found interesting is that I fox has options for his jab jab combo

I only tested it on neutrals stages, I'm not sure if jab jab locks tho. it may hard to do on some characters as well to set up on moving targets.

jab jab grab (throw if you want)
jab jab grab (pummel until (no throws) release) then Ftilt
jab jab grab (pummel until (no throws) release) then quickly follow up with jab jab grab again (continuous until ledge)
jab jab shine
jab jab Dsmash
jab jab Usmash
jab jab Utilt
jab jab Ftilt
jab jab Dtilt
jab jab continuous until you get to the edge

Options near the edge
jab jab Dtilt
jab jab grab (throw)
jab jab SH Dair (be behind them after the Dair and continue to jab jab until at kill percent) (make sure your going the opposite direction you started jabbing)
jab jab Utilt (follow up with Bair)
jab jab SH Dair with a follow up with an Usmash behind them

I tried this on the platform.

jab jab D-air
jab jab N-air
jab jab grab(Throw he/or she down)F-air
Yeah, I tried this like last year in 2011, its useful to start a combo on the platform with
Jab Jab D-air to U-tilt. Its very easy to use it on DK, Bowser, D3, and Ganondork since they so big. epesially D3. He's like a wide target.
crifer, try to use jab jab combo the platform too.

 

[Conviction]

What you guys are talking about is not new

Jab Jab Cancelling (JJC) (Created by 718_R00kie)

*Must note: Smart players will know how to DI and SDI out of this so don't abuse it. This is very situational and has to be done right, so experiment see where it fits for you and mix it up sometimes.*

JJC'ing has been a big step to re-create what fox is about and push the limits of what he can do. It's fast and not as difficult to do. You can make alot of mix-ups with JJC'ing, such as JJC>Grab...JJC>Shine...even JJC>AAA. But just find the right characters and you can even pull off JJC>JJC>JJC>JJC>JJC, and when this connects it looks so so pretty. Keep in mind this tech is not based on hit stun, knockback or percents. It works on those characters that have no option to use to get out of it. (Example: DDD cannot get out of it BUT Marth can UP-B out of it.)

-Frame data - 2, then 3 (1st jab is "2" then 2nd jab is "3")
-Button input - Hold AA then crouch cancel. (Jab>Jab>Hold down on the joystick)
-How to setup -
1. Dair into JJC
2. Airdodge into JJC
3. Nair(sour spot) into JJC
4. Bair(extremely low percent) into JJC
5. Approach with shield into JJC
-Best uses - A "Boxing" tool used for short combos. Since this can be repeated on certain characters it acts as a short juggle for about 2 or 3 sets of JJC'ing. This greatly increases fox's inside game and is highly reccommended that this is used.

*This is a very accurate list of characters that fall victim to JJC'ing and those that don't*

-Best characters (most effective) - Diddy, DK, King D3, G&W, R.O.B., Yoshi, Ganon, Link, Toon Link, Wario, Zelda, Lucario, P.Trainer(ALL PKMNs).
-Worst characters (not too effective) - Bowser, MK, Snake, Marth, Mario, Luigi, ZSS, Samus, Ike, C.Falcon, Ness, Lucas, Olimar, Sonic, Peach, Wolf, Kirby, Jiggz, Fox, Falco, Pika, Pit.

Jab Jab Cancel Edge Trapping (Created by 718_R00kie)
The form of JJC'ing your opponent up and over the edge of the stage causing an extremely uncomfortable place for your opponent to be in. This is a excellent way to trap your opponent and give them nothing but bad and or obvious options for them to escape. As you are JJC'ing you have alot at you disposal here. You have these options:
1. JJC to AAA
2. JJC to Grab
3. JJC to D-smash
4. JJC to U-smash
5. JJC to Double Shine spike
6. JJC to F-tilt
7. JJC to Drill Shine
8. JJC to Dair
*Note: Your opponent is off-stage as you connect with all these combinations and have suddenly turned the situation into a edge guard scenario*




^Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9FfBr_by3w&fmt=18

Jab Jab Cancel Platform Trapping (Created by 718_R00kie)
It's the same as edge trapping but with a twist, now you can follow up more ground moves and combo on stage from platform to platform or platform to ground. These are your options:
1. JJC to AAA
2. JJC to Grab
3. JJC to D-smash
4. JJC to U-smash
5. JJC to Nair
6. JJC to Shine
7. JJC to Uptilt
8. JJC *fall through platform* Dair
9. JJC *fall through platform* Nair
*Note: This AT has a wide range of options to follow up with such as grabs, tilts, and aerials.*

-Stage Specifics -
-Character Specifics -

^Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmaY-lMAcSc&fmt=18

Frame data on JJC'ing (Created by 718_R00kie)
FOX:
Jab frames: 1st Jab "Frame 2" 2nd Jab "Frame 3"
JJC lag frames(open frames between): 1 Frame
Hitstun from JJC: 5 Frames
Open frames for opponent to act before next JJC: 3 Frames (2 frame of CC and 1 open frame before the jab)

I created to columns for those characters with default options and those that have options of thier own. (Created by 718_R00kie)
*All characters have the option to jump or shield*
*Jump option - The opponent is be lifted in the air throughout JJC'ing*
*Shield option - The opponent is hitting the floor throughout JJC'ing*

List A: Characters who have only two options of escape. (Jump or Shield)

1. Diddy
Landing Lag: 4 Frames

2. Donkey
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

3. Ganon
Landing Lag:?

4. G&W
Landing Lag:?

5. King D3
Landing Lag:?

6. Link
Landing Lag:?

7. Lucario
Landing Lag:?

8. Zelda
Landing Lag:?

9. Toon Link
Landing Lag:?

10. Wario
Landing Lag:?

11. IC's
Landing Lag:?

12. Zelda
Landing Lag:?

13. P.Trainer
Squirtle
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

Ivysaur
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

Charizard
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

14. R.O.B.???
Landing Lag:???

15. ZSS???
Landing Lag:???

16. Yoshi
Landing Lag:?

List B: Characters who have more than two options to escape.

1. Bowser: Up-B "Invinicibility frames 1-4"
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

2. C.Falcon: Jab "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

3. Falco: Jab "Frame 3 + wind box"
Landing Lag:?

4. Fox: Jab "Frame 2" Shine "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

5. Ike: Jab "Frame 3"
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

6. Jiggz: Rest "Frame 1"
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

7. Kirby: Jab "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

8. Lucas: Jab "Frame 2" D-tilt "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

9. Snake: Grenade "Frame 1" Jab "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

10. Wolf: Shine "Frame 1 + Invincibility"
Landing Lag:?

11. Sonic: Jab "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

12. Luigi: 1st Jab "Frame 2" 2nd Jab "Frame 3" "Nair Frame 3"
Landing Lag: 3 Frames

13. Mario: Jab "Frame 2" Up-B "Invincibility Frames 1-5 + hits on Frame 3" Nair "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

14. Marth: Up-B "Invincibility Frames 1-5 + hits on Frame 5"
Landing Lag:?

15. MK: F-tilt "Frame 3" Nair "Frame 3" Uair "Frame 2"
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

16. Ness: 1st Jab "Frame 3" 2nd Jab "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

17. Olimar: Whistle "Frame 2 + Super Armor"
Landing Lag: 2 Frames

18. Peach: Jab "Frame 2" Nair "Frame 2"
Landing Lag:?

19. Pika: Jab "Frame 2" Nair "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

20. Pit: Nair "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

21. Samus: Jab "Frame 3"
Landing Lag:?

*Now use your brain guys, notice alot of characters have attacks that can interrupt our JJC'ing BUT majority of them are grounded. So as long as you get the character off the ground your chances greatly increase due to them only having one option which is to jump*

Jab Jab Canceled Shine (JJCS) (Created by Uzi "Uzimakisensai")
Some call it a combo, some call it a frame trap. JJCS'ing is something that has put a huge twist on fox's metagame. You can follow up on certain characters after the Shine so yes you can call it a combo, some can just be put in frame traps from platforms & ledges. JJCS has very short open frame windows so if you land the first jab you have high chances of pulling this off.

Using the JJC in conjunction with the Shine. (Created by Uzi "Uzimakisensai")
The JJC has the perfect property to move Fox slightly into the center of the opponents Hurt box, and you can use this property to solve one of the most troubling Fox combo problems. The JJC has the perfect property to move Fox slightly into the center of the opponents Hurt box, and you can use this property to solve one of the most troubling Fox combo problems. Remember If you can combo into jab from any attack, you should be able to JJCS and then work from there. Since jab now has combos from it, you should use it more often, the Jab is no longer the AAA combo with kicks at the end to be easily punished it is a start up for many combos. The Risk/Reward has now shifted drasticaly, and with jab being an ultra fast attack you should be able to land it often. Jab doesnt have to outprioritise attacks, it just has to land first.

Combo'ing into and then from Shine. (Created by Uzi "Uzimakisensai")
For example: You can drill>shine just fine, as well as shine>up-smash.
But when you put these together a problem occurs, the slight landing lag from the drill is enough for the overlapping character models to push each other slightly away, and this slight movement keeps the shine>up-smash from connecting.
But if you impliment the JJC into this combo it becomes possible.
When you DRill>JJC the JJC pushes you slighty to the center of the opponents character model while there still in hitstun, while your in the center you can now Shine dead center in them and give yourself the perfect placement for Shine>upsmash.

Drill>Shine>Up-Smash Doesn't work
Drill>JJC>Shine>Up-Smash Does Work

-Frame data - 2, 3, then 3 (1st jab is "2", 2nd jab is "3" then Shine is "3")
-Button input - Hold AA into crouch cancel shine (Jab>Jab>Hold down on the joystick and press B)
-How to setup -
*Same as JJC, we're just adding more flavor*
1. Dair into JJCS
2. Airdodge into JJCS
3. Nair(sour spot) into JJCS
4. Bair(extremely low percent) into JJCS
5. Approach with shield into JJCS
-Best uses - A pressure tool. Since we are adding the shine it puts the opponent exactly where you want them since the knockback of shine hardly changes on low percents. This can be related as a REAL combo on certain characters and is one of fox's strong points as a "Boxer". It can also be incorporated as a edge guard tool in a sense that you JJCS your opponent near the ledge to knock them straight off and now it becomes a edge guard scenario.

*This takes a turn from just JJC'ing. It's now based on the sliding distance (from the Shine) of the characters so here is the seperation of which characters can be combo'd after the JJCS and which can't*

-Best characters (most effective) - King D3, DK, Bowser, Yoshi, Charizard, Peach, Wario, Link, Sheik, Ganon, Samus, Olimar, Falco, Wolf, Pika, Ivysaur, Lucario, Jiggs, Sonic, and Ness.
-Worst characters (not too effective) - Mario, Luigi, ICs, Diddy, Zelda, ToonLink, Pit, ROB, Kirby, MK, C.Falcon, Squirtle, Marth, Ike, Lucas, G&W, and Snake
-Stage Specifics -
-Character Specifics -
-Tested Combo's -
1. Nair>JJC>Shine>Dash Attack/Up-smash
2. Drill>JJC>Shine>Dash Attack/Up-smash

^Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsR-m0mrLSM&fmt=18

Shine Ledge Traps & Combos (Created by 718_R00kie)
This isn't hard to do just very situational. The idea is to Shine your opponent towards the ledge (not to grab it) but to have them barely stand at the edge of the stage. There isn't many options your opponent has considering they got hit into this situation and their first reaction is defense (shielding). But most important some characters can be Shined to the edge of stage and not fall due to their weight/fall speed (King D3, DK, Wolf). So the idea of this is to Shine your opponent towards the edge of the stage but not using the normal distance of the characters slide. Because of the weight/fall speed Shining them slightly closer than normal will cause them to stop in place at the edge and now look, you just cut the distance between you and your opponent by a few steps which is all you need to start REAL combo's. Sound like a trap? I think so.

So quick re-cap. Things that are on a need to know basis. (Created by 718_R00kie)
1. Know your opponents character distance when they get Shined.
2. Space properly and reduce the distance by 2 to 3 steps.
3. Shine your opponent towards the edge and notice they do not slide off to grab the ledge.
4. Now you've created the trap.

-Frame data - "3"
-Button input - Down B
-How to setup - Each character has a set knockback from shine. Some dont go as far (wolf), some slide out of reach (Luigi). To create this trap you'll have to know and understand the characters knockback at low percents and have frame perfect timing.
-Best uses - It is a way to initiate a edge guard scenario which will lead to a trap for combos.
Characters to auto combo - King D3, DK, Bowser, Yoshi and Charizard
Characters to trap - Peach, Wario, Link, Sheik, Ganon, Samus, Olimar, Falco, Wolf, Pika, Ivysaur, Lucario, Jiggs, Sonic, and Ness
Characters to ignore (does not work) - Mario, Luigi, ICs, Diddy, Zelda, ToonLink, Pit, ROB, Kirby, MK, C.Falcon, Squirtle, Marth, Ike, Lucas, G&W, and Snake
-Stage Specifics -
-Character Specifics -

 

[Jiffyboob]

Does Fox have any sort of boost properties for his laser on the ground. Idk if that's confusing.... I'm probably not saying it right but like a grounded B reversed laser basically?

 

[Kuro~]

Every character can grounded b-reverse

 

[knuckles213]

lol^^^^

those 09 tactics.
we foxes gotta create some 2012 tactics

 

[Conviction]

How about using Bair and Uair more? Creating frametraps with said moves. Nair cross-ups. Following up Dair with a SH Cross-up maybe even a cross-Nair/Bair. Better use of boost pivot grab.

Ehh just building my own playstyle as of now.

 

[Kuro~]

It's more valuable to share through videos as far as tactics go.

Unless your asking a very high level player about specifics.

 

[Conviction]

Agreed. With my recent ability to start traveling OoS, I should actually be able to develop as a player now LOL

 

[knuckles213]

but what things you can do out of reflector, I know you can roll out of reflector, jump, and Illuision

 

[Kuro~]

Agreed. With my recent ability to start traveling OoS, I should actually be able to develop as a player now LOL

Me and Papa Mink plan on traveling to georgia a bit as well. Iirc we're trying to go in march or april

You get with georgia and come down here sometime also bro.

 

[crifer]

How about using Bair and Uair more? Creating frametraps with said moves. Nair cross-ups. Following up Dair with a SH Cross-up maybe even a cross-Nair/Bair. Better use of boost pivot grab.

Ehh just building my own playstyle as of now.

@ really low (0-10) % I really love ac bair to usmash or dsmash. looks so nasty.
I like that idea of dair followed by a sh cross up.
If their shield is not capable of preventing a dair shieldpoke, and you feel like usmash will NOT connect bc their shield is going to be up too fast you can try to dair shieldpoke to dair/nair to usmash...

 

[knuckles213]

Shoutouts to ZETON for showing me a few tricks with the reflector, and inspiring me to figureout what more can fox do with it. (and playing all my Bad MUs with fox)

fox's reflector tactics:
I dont know how much this will be useful to anybody, but fox needs some reflector game, I sat n training mode and tested some things out.

we all know fox is a sitting duck in his reflector until you drop it, but he has quite a few options when in the reflecter phase. fox can do things out of relfector, but only when his reflector is hit with soild reflectable projectiles (ie: falco's lazers, pika's thundershock, olimar's purple pikmin, diddy's bananas, etc). After your reflector has been touch by the opponent's projectile you can preform the following:

Shine > roll (this may help to avoid CGs)
Shine > jump (either Short hop or Full hop)
- Jump > Illusion (kind of a unexpected attack if preformed after a Short Hop, Only do a full hop if your trying to get to a platform) you really on want to do this if you opponent is in close range other wise you may get punished
- Jump > Nair (can be either full hop or short hop)
- Jump > Fair (can be either full hop or short hop(lagless as well as lag))
- Jump > Bair (can be either full hop or short hop) I'd say try an practice this one so that you don't miss
- Jump > Uair (can be either full hop or short hop)
- Jump > Dair (can be either full hop or short hop) can lead into a jab jab combo
- Jump > Up B (any direction, better to do short hop first (so that you can catch you opponent in the flame when they try to grab you))
- Jump > Laser (single, double, and triple)
Shine > Spot dodge > Utilt
Shine > Spot dodge > Dtilt
Shine > Spot dodge > Ftilt
Shine > Spot dodge > Usmash
Shine > Spot dodge > turn around Usmash (in the same spot without moving your character)
Shine > Spot dodge > Dsmash
Shine > Spot dodge > Fsmash
Shine > Spot dodge > JC (leading to another combo of your choice or kill) (can turn around with it also)

Hope this is useful you guys, there probably more to this that I haven't done yet, but this is what I got from it

 

[Sarix]

Looks nice Knuckles. I'll have to try some of this out in my secondary fox gameplay.

 

[C.R.Z]

jumping out of reflecter is the best option in most scenarios.

 

[Orion*]

Ehh just building my own playstyle as of now.

Dont worry about that, especially at your current level. Focus on solid gameplay when Practicing. Creativity is natural and as you develop as a player, you will automatically gain your "own style". Creating a "style" based around unsolid, or insecure play leads you to extremely gimmicky or inconsistent playstyles, which in the long run won't help you. (There are players that had this though, and then later developed).

If you can't play as solid as the players that came before you, how do you expect to advance the metagame? You can think of great ideas, but until you can put them into context they will be what they are, ideas. Which are awesome, but also not useful when actually playing in a tournament situation.

also for the list of stuff out of shine JC usmash is an option, although for like 99 percent of situations its like extremely pointless. Might as well just usmash in the first place
edit: I agree with crz, sh is probably the best imo actually but mixups make the world go round

 

[knuckles213]

Dont worry about that, especially at your current level. Focus on solid gameplay when Practicing. Creativity is natural and as you develop as a player, you will automatically gain your "own style". Creating a "style" based around unsolid, or insecure play leads you to extremely gimmicky or inconsistent playstyles, which in the long run won't help you. (There are players that had this though, and then later developed).

If you can't play as solid as the players that came before you, how do you expect to advance the metagame? You can think of great ideas, but until you can put them into context they will be what they are, ideas. Which are awesome, but also not useful when actually playing in a tournament situation.

also for the list of stuff out of shine JC usmash is an option, although for like 99 percent of situations its like extremely pointless. Might as well just usmash in the first place
edit: I agree with crz, sh is probably the best imo actually but mixups make the world go round

Tell this to Zeton, he'll say otherwise. Plus were talking about brawl, anything could happen; your opponent walking blindly challenging a Charged Fsmash. and fox's metagame really cant improve until all the gay **** in brawl is removed (from character attributes to stages, or whatever) cause fox cant play as himself nor that much thinking outside the box, only play around the situation he gets stuck with. I can only agree with improving your personal skill level as a player.

 

[Conviction]

Dont worry about that, especially at your current level. Focus on solid gameplay when Practicing. Creativity is natural and as you develop as a player, you will automatically gain your "own style". Creating a "style" based around unsolid, or insecure play leads you to extremely gimmicky or inconsistent playstyles, which in the long run won't help you. (There are players that had this though, and then later developed).

If you can't play as solid as the players that came before you, how do you expect to advance the metagame? You can think of great ideas, but until you can put them into context they will be what they are, ideas. Which are awesome, but also not useful when actually playing in a tournament situation.

also for the list of stuff out of shine JC usmash is an option, although for like 99 percent of situations its like extremely pointless. Might as well just usmash in the first place
edit: I agree with crz, sh is probably the best imo actually but mixups make the world go round

I see, interesting. Haha aight cool info homie, keeping it in mind. Got some vids coming up tomorrow I think, depends on my laziness. I've been working on the shield and movement fluidity.

 

[M@v]

Dont worry about that, especially at your current level. Focus on solid gameplay when Practicing. Creativity is natural and as you develop as a player, you will automatically gain your "own style". Creating a "style" based around unsolid, or insecure play leads you to extremely gimmicky or inconsistent playstyles, which in the long run won't help you. (There are players that had this though, and then later developed).

If you can't play as solid as the players that came before you, how do you expect to advance the metagame? You can think of great ideas, but until you can put them into context they will be what they are, ideas. Which are awesome, but also not useful when actually playing in a tournament situation.

soooooo much thiisssssss. Tbh my Falco playstyle developed like this, and my fox one started off gimmicky, then I left him for a while and came back. When I came back I merely just took the gimmicks and incorporated the useful ones smartly.

 

[Orion*]

Tell this to Zeton, he'll say otherwise.

Nice point I could care less about unless Zeton wants to talk to me LMAO

anything could happen

Same thing with literally anything including your own life. But you have to choose what your okay with risk reward wise. For an example, you could get run over by a car tomorrow so you should enjoy your life. Playing it completely safe is literally pointless in the end because you will accomplish little (+boring..).

In the end you can choose or say that having a few drinks is fine with friends and that maybe a mild hangover or small side effects are okay.
Or smoking ciggs and their side effects.
Or cocaine.
Or weed.
Whatever, it's literally your life to live I'm not making you do anything. However if you CHOOSE do any of these things, (and because of that conscious decision you can stop), the risk or potential of death or abuse becomes much less than relying on said inhibitions.

cant believe i related drugs to selecting options though

your opponent walking blindly challenging a Charged Fsmash.

What garbage?

and fox's metagame really cant improve until all the gay **** in brawl is removed

False considering that literally nobody has fully mastered this character yet.

(from character attributes to stages, or whatever)

It's part of the character, Fox in the end bar ICs (and Esam) (and sheik) is an extremely viable character on any stage imo. If you want to win whole tournaments you might need a solid secondary especially in good reasons, but otherwise it's just johns sorry.

cause fox cant play as himself

What is himself?

nor that much thinking outside the box, only play around the situation he gets stuck with. I can only agree with improving your personal skill level as a player.

All fox can do is think out of the box considering how linear he is at high level. Even if thinking out of the box is a relatively common option, it can still be applied in new ways, and this is synonymous with learning solid play. aka getting better

 

[Conviction]

When do we retreat to the war shelter?

 

[Sarix]

Dont worry about that, especially at your current level. Focus on solid gameplay when Practicing. Creativity is natural and as you develop as a player, you will automatically gain your "own style". Creating a "style" based around unsolid, or insecure play leads you to extremely gimmicky or inconsistent playstyles, which in the long run won't help you. (There are players that had this though, and then later developed).

If you can't play as solid as the players that came before you, how do you expect to advance the metagame? You can think of great ideas, but until you can put them into context they will be what they are, ideas. Which are awesome, but also not useful when actually playing in a tournament situation.
round

This can definitely be applied to more than just Fox, especially for some of the lower tier characters who are practically forced to be creative to win matches. I've only recently been implementing creativity in playing Samus to find ways of dealing with tougher matchups while keeping her spammy core intact.

 

[knuckles213]

Nice point I could care less about unless Zeton wants to talk to me LMAO

ehh whatever

Same thing with literally anything including your own life. But you have to choose what your okay with risk reward wise. For an example, you could get run over by a car tomorrow so you should enjoy your life. Playing it completely safe is literally pointless in the end because you will accomplish little (+boring..).

In the end you can choose or say that having a few drinks is fine with friends and that maybe a mild hangover or small side effects are okay.
Or smoking ciggs and their side effects.
Or cocaine.
Or weed.
Whatever, it's literally your life to live I'm not making you do anything. However if you CHOOSE do any of these things, (and because of that conscious decision you can stop), the risk or potential of death or abuse becomes much less than relying on said inhibitions.

cant believe i related drugs to selecting options though

WHY? and stay on topic

What garbage?

Thats my example, whats your question?

False considering that literally nobody has fully mastered this character yet.

I'll say half is true (your're right nobody has mastered fox not even TKD), I do believe fox can go far and is a great character, but no one is taking the time to actually master fox (well at least not anymore), and there probably many reasons why that may be. even a non-fox main as your self can guess why, hell I see more people now pick him up as a secondary and not a main.

It's part of the character, Fox in the end bar ICs (and Esam) (and sheik) is an extremely viable character on any stage imo. If you want to win whole tournaments you might need a solid secondary especially in good reasons, but otherwise it's just johns sorry.

Hey I blame sakuri for this crap, Jk

I have one its , but I never use him in tourny tho cause I believe fox can do it all him himself (just have to play differently with each MU) I usually do quite well, until a high level player beats me(that lack of skill on my part, just gotta get better, no excuses) or I get stuck with bad MU (used to be ICs early in losers bracket, but now its peach), but I'm used to the s*** in brawl (no johns). I deal with all MUs with one charcter, I don't b**** like everyone else when they crap they don't want to deal with. I can beat my characters MUs now so I have no complaints

What is himself?

Flow chart fox

All fox can do is think out of the box considering how linear he is at high level. Even if thinking out of the box is a relatively common option, it can still be applied in new ways, and this is synonymous with learning solid play. aka getting better

hey as long you can win and prove that you are a skilled player with masterey of your character.... cool

plus, I'm only 5 months deep into brawl(competitive wise), so cut me some slack here

 

[crifer]

What is the point in having a second that you won´t use? then.... it´s not a secondary :D

Actually I never thought about having "my own playstyle", I just play and try to use the smartest/safest option ^^
Also I think that "your playstyle" should depend on your enemy... Especially against mk, I often realize that I have to play depending on my enemy. Some are more likely to be beaten by a really campy style, some mk´s are beaten by being rushed down...
But I kinda spent more experimenting in trainings mode with Fox and DK.

 

[Zeton]

This can definitely be applied to more than just Fox, especially for some of the lower tier characters who are practically forced to be creative to win matches. I've only recently been implementing creativity in playing Samus to find ways of dealing with tougher matchups while keeping her spammy core intact.

Well put. Basic meta game is one thing but if you're going to be the same book like everyone else on the shelves you are going to be put down really quickly.

As for my point of view of how to play Fox or any other character in that matter....

"Never give up. Trust your instincts."

Just do that and you'll be fine. It's not like people can read your mind or w/e unless your showing off how technical you are.

Everyone has their own way of doing things. Let's just leave at that and move along.

 

[Player-3]

It's not like people can read your mind or w/e unless your showing off how technical you are.

this i disagree with to some extent


when you're a budding player and you play certain players (like biglou)

you feel like you just got mind-*****

i mean

it's ****ing scary when you're new and this guy knows exactly what you're going to do

 

[Zeton]

this i disagree with to some extent


when you're a budding player and you play certain players (like biglou)

you feel like you just got mind-*****

i mean

it's ****ing scary when you're new and this guy knows exactly what you're going to do

You'd actually be surprised what stuff you can get off because you don't play like a professional let alone are underrated...(Fox lol). Though if the opponent is really laming it up and not giving you a real learning experience, just being a **** or bully, then yeah, I see your point.

 

[Player-3]

You'd actually be surprised what stuff you can get off because you don't play like a professional let alone are underrated...(Fox lol). Unless the opponent is really laming it up and not giving a real learning experience, then yeah, I see your point.

yeah i know what you mean the whole surprise WHO DOES THAT? factor

but everytime this topic comes up i have flashbacks of me playing biglou in a set for the first time when i was new to competitive brawl (and gaming in general)

it was horrible


but yeah, i get your point and i agree

 

[Zeton]

yeah i know what you mean the whole surprise WHO DOES THAT? factor

Lol pretty much hear that in my matches at least once or twice at a tourney. All and all, it really just comes down the confidence to execute your moves based off of each scenario of your opponent's emotional reaction displayed in their playstyle..as well as the current level environment (brawl has a lot of changing stages etc.)

 

[Player-3]

Lol pretty much hear that in my matches at least once or twice at a tourney.

the last time i actually yelled that out was playing someone in friendlies who was playing fox, ironically, (not as a main but we were messing around), and he kept doing a firefox above the ledge to cover all my options because i had nothing to beat it (i dont remember what character i was playing) and then he would just go across the stage because it would catch if i rolled up onto the stage

it actually worked really well because i think i was luigi and since i couldnt turn around to bair him i had no range that would beat out the fire from below LOL

 

[Zeton]

the last time i actually yelled that out was playing someone in friendlies who was playing fox, ironically, (not as a main but we were messing around), and he kept doing a firefox above the ledge to cover all my options because i had nothing to beat it (i dont remember what character i was playing) and then he would just go across the stage because it would catch if i rolled up onto the stage

it actually worked really well because i think i was luigi and since i couldnt turn around to bair him i had no range that would beat out the fire from below LOL

Fox is full of little scenario gimmicks...XD

Personally I think the Fox vs Luigi match up is like nothing but the opposite of a normal match. Just because the fact that both characters can get off stupid stuff and not get punished for it. (Like Fsmash on Luigi shield is surprisingly safe since he slips back from shielding so far.)

 

[Player-3]

Fox is full of little scenario gimmicks...XD

Personally I think the Fox vs Luigi match up is like nothing but the opposite of a normal match. Just because the fact that both characters can get off stupid stuff and not get punished for it. (Like Fsmash on Luigi shield is surprisingly safe since he slips back from shielding so far.)

everything is safe on luigis shield

#luigiplayerproblems

however, from playing luigi,


i have gotten REALLY good at powershielding since i play so grounded as him XD

 

[Zeton]

everything is safe on luigis shield

#luigiplayerproblems

however, from playing luigi,


i have gotten REALLY good at powershielding since i play so grounded as him XD

If you plan on playing Fox Powershield>OOSUpsmash is a guaranteed punish for almost just about any move from the cast. (It's sexy too. lol)