The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
To FAE, no idea. It all just depends on how much time we have.
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Hot Dickings! Jan 30th - 31st! 2010, STL MO. BONUS POT (1/24/10 with LIVESTREAM)
- Thread starter The Milk Monster
- Start date
TP
Smash Master
I hope that we do decide to do Low Tier singles and doubles. More important to me than crews, but of course I'm quite biased.
_marth1_
Smash Lord
so it looks like im winning this if i go, since matt wont be here to knock me out
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
I really don't care what we do, cause I wasn't included in a crew + don't have a partner for low tier doubles.
So it's up to you guys.
I'd rather watch crews though.
So it's up to you guys.
I'd rather watch crews though.
darkatma
Smash Hero
my sheik is better than matt's.
I've been slowly but surely unrusting it.
also I have scar and SS practice now
Tomacawk
Smash Master
tom play seriouslies with me please at this
I may even MM you for a buck
I may even MM you for a buck
What's the story with the stage list? It's way too short and needs Pokemon Stadium 2 and Norfair, both of which are 100% fair and have no reason to be banned. If you want to make people happy by banning Luigi's Mansion and Pirate Ship that's one thing, but banning those two is really going too far.
The stage list is pushing it on what I'm willing to attend as it stands, but I'll probably try to make it.
Assuming I do make it (probably will), I'll accept MMs from any MK who thinks his character is good on Norfair. Bo3 Norfair only I'll use G&W only opponent only allowed MK. As far as I'm concerned, Norfair is an anti-MK stage and having it legal is one of the big reasons our region hasn't had the MK problems other regions have, willing to put my money where my mouth is on that one.
I also plan to bring a full set-up unless KC's ultimate ride arrangements prove non-conducive to bringing my TV. The Wii + game is guaranteed regardless.
The stage list is pushing it on what I'm willing to attend as it stands, but I'll probably try to make it.
Assuming I do make it (probably will), I'll accept MMs from any MK who thinks his character is good on Norfair. Bo3 Norfair only I'll use G&W only opponent only allowed MK. As far as I'm concerned, Norfair is an anti-MK stage and having it legal is one of the big reasons our region hasn't had the MK problems other regions have, willing to put my money where my mouth is on that one.
I also plan to bring a full set-up unless KC's ultimate ride arrangements prove non-conducive to bringing my TV. The Wii + game is guaranteed regardless.
Affinity
Smash Hero
PS2 and Norfair are sooo 2009.
So Affinity, are you accepting my challenge? I'll happily take your money. There's no reason for you to decline unless you think your main, Meta Knight, has a character disadvantage there.
If those stages are 2009, then 2010 will be the year where the only characters who can win are Meta Knight and Ice Climbers.
If those stages are 2009, then 2010 will be the year where the only characters who can win are Meta Knight and Ice Climbers.
TP
Smash Master
Oh snap, AA's taking off the gloves.
**** got real.
**** got real.
MJG
Smash Hero
I bet I could beat your GnW on norfair with my main
Affinity
Smash Hero
The reason they shouldn't be legal doesn't have to do with any specific character match-up. The lava walls and spurts are dumb. So are the PS2 transformations. There's a reason they're banned pretty much everywhere.
Also, why should I accept your MM if you never accepted mine?
I would MM you if you brought it up in person; I was always a bit wishy washy about such things and then forgot about it the day of. To be honest, I always have some anxiety whether I can beat you... just like you are seeming very unsure you can beat me on Norfair.
There's nothing dumb about either of those things on either stage. It's just a question of player skill dealing with them; a lot of regions ban them because people just cried about it and didn't want to learn the stages. Banning the stages just encourages people not to learn, it punishes people who put in the effort and developed the skills, and it distorts the balance of the game. For instance, you're removing the factors that give the character Meta Knight disadvantages. I'm sure as a main of Meta Knight that sounds great to you, but as someone who mains a character other than Meta Knight I think things are more fair with my buddy Norfair around. Of course, if anyone thinks that's silly and that I'm full of it, they're free to try to take my money with their Meta Knights on Norfair.
I mean, they've been legal at every St. Louis tournament in the past that I've been able to observe, and no one ever seemed to have issue. For that matter, they've been legal throughout this region for a long time and didn't cause issues. Remember when I cp'd Zeton to Pokemon Stadium 2 and tried to take advantage of the goofy transformations... and he beat me anyway because he just flat out outplayed me because Zeton is a good player who is able to adapt to many circumstances? We have playtested these stages extensively, and they've proven fair. Other regions have their terrible stage rules, and they also have other terrible rules like ledge grab limits and anti-DDD chaingrab rules and were the places that wanted to ban Meta Knight and I might point out just barely failed largely because the Midwest (other than Overswarm, who was on their side) stood up to them. Why all of a sudden is our region not confident sticking with what has always worked very well for our region? I'm not asking for Onett and Corneria or Pirate Ship and Luigi's Mansion or even Distant Planet; I'm asking for two stages that have always been legal here (and up until recently uncontroversial here) to continue being legal because they have never caused problems, and one of them is a very important counterpick for my non-Meta Knight character.
On a more lighthearted but perhaps no less convincing note, consider this argument.
-Ganondorf is hard countered by all forms of nonsense (among other things that hard counter Ganondorf).
-The Ganondorf main wants Norfair legal.
-Norfair must have a very low quantity of nonsense.
Don't make Ganon cry.
There's nothing dumb about either of those things on either stage. It's just a question of player skill dealing with them; a lot of regions ban them because people just cried about it and didn't want to learn the stages. Banning the stages just encourages people not to learn, it punishes people who put in the effort and developed the skills, and it distorts the balance of the game. For instance, you're removing the factors that give the character Meta Knight disadvantages. I'm sure as a main of Meta Knight that sounds great to you, but as someone who mains a character other than Meta Knight I think things are more fair with my buddy Norfair around. Of course, if anyone thinks that's silly and that I'm full of it, they're free to try to take my money with their Meta Knights on Norfair.
I mean, they've been legal at every St. Louis tournament in the past that I've been able to observe, and no one ever seemed to have issue. For that matter, they've been legal throughout this region for a long time and didn't cause issues. Remember when I cp'd Zeton to Pokemon Stadium 2 and tried to take advantage of the goofy transformations... and he beat me anyway because he just flat out outplayed me because Zeton is a good player who is able to adapt to many circumstances? We have playtested these stages extensively, and they've proven fair. Other regions have their terrible stage rules, and they also have other terrible rules like ledge grab limits and anti-DDD chaingrab rules and were the places that wanted to ban Meta Knight and I might point out just barely failed largely because the Midwest (other than Overswarm, who was on their side) stood up to them. Why all of a sudden is our region not confident sticking with what has always worked very well for our region? I'm not asking for Onett and Corneria or Pirate Ship and Luigi's Mansion or even Distant Planet; I'm asking for two stages that have always been legal here (and up until recently uncontroversial here) to continue being legal because they have never caused problems, and one of them is a very important counterpick for my non-Meta Knight character.
On a more lighthearted but perhaps no less convincing note, consider this argument.
-Ganondorf is hard countered by all forms of nonsense (among other things that hard counter Ganondorf).
-The Ganondorf main wants Norfair legal.
-Norfair must have a very low quantity of nonsense.
Don't make Ganon cry.
Mr. Doom
Smash Hero
TP
Smash Master
Ganon with Norfair legal:
How can you say no?!?!?
More seriously, since when did "it's dumb" become a valid reason for banning a stage? If the stage actually hurts competitive play (as shown through previous tournaments, not theory) then go ahead and ban it, but if general dislike or laziness or fear is the problem then I say we ban Ice Climbers too because I don't like them.
How can you say no?!?!?
More seriously, since when did "it's dumb" become a valid reason for banning a stage? If the stage actually hurts competitive play (as shown through previous tournaments, not theory) then go ahead and ban it, but if general dislike or laziness or fear is the problem then I say we ban Ice Climbers too because I don't like them.
razor counterpicked me to PS2 in iowa and it seemed fine to me. nothing about it was broken and it looks like a good, unique CP. conveyors heavily favor aerial tactics, fans heavily favor grounded tactics (so those two kind of cancel out somewhat), icy changes how dashing and running work (which is not a big deal), and ground is really not very different from the fire/rock transformations on PS1. in fact, ground is way less campy than those two.
a good CP to learn and use. the boundaries are very similar to the neutrals. this stage doesn't even have any controversial hazards to deal with.
norfair i'm more on the fence about, but planking isn't an issue there. plankers have more ledges to play with but the plankees have way more options to deal with it. the only issue i have with the stage is the fact that the lava spurts can sometimes come in ridiculous groups of 5 or so...the other lava parts are fine imo. this stage does good things for a number of characters, some of which are quite bad. some of which are quite good. idk.
also 2009 was less than a month ago
a good CP to learn and use. the boundaries are very similar to the neutrals. this stage doesn't even have any controversial hazards to deal with.
norfair i'm more on the fence about, but planking isn't an issue there. plankers have more ledges to play with but the plankees have way more options to deal with it. the only issue i have with the stage is the fact that the lava spurts can sometimes come in ridiculous groups of 5 or so...the other lava parts are fine imo. this stage does good things for a number of characters, some of which are quite bad. some of which are quite good. idk.
also 2009 was less than a month ago
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
Norfair and PS2 are banned.
Majority rules. I'm not unbanning it for one or two people.
If you guys want to take a vote or some ****, we'll see, but whatever.
Majority rules. I'm not unbanning it for one or two people.
If you guys want to take a vote or some ****, we'll see, but whatever.
Affinity
Smash Hero
<3 Milk
Leviathan741
Smash Ace
I have a question for you... Do you play 64 smash as fireblaster as well?
Lixivium
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2006
- Messages
- 2,689
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
So Seth is being flakey as usual and isn't sure if he will go to this or not... if anyone wants to talk about possibly teaming up or something, shoot me a PM. If I can find a more solid team mate who I think will work well with me, I will probably do that instead of team with him... since I'm not sure what he's even going to do.
@Ampharos - How does Norfair act as an anti-MK stage? Characters that can go pretty even with him, such as Falco, Diddy, and ICs, actually do worse there. I don't know what Snake does on Norfair, but I doubt he loves it against MK, since it is a level geared more to aerial characters. I mean, I guess if Ganon wants Norfair legal we should have it that way. Sadly, Ganon counterpicking MK means that he already lost on the neutral, and I doubt he'll be able to win the third match on MK's counterpick. Crazy stages like Norfair simply aren't necessary - who cares if you can win on a stage where you got lucky and the lava killed your opponent instead of you? If you rely on this sort of thing, I don't see you winning on the neutral or on the opponent's CP.
alt-F4
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2008
- Messages
- 627
HOLY **** Nicole made an entire post without flaming OR trolling
*tear*
She's just growing up so fast.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
Norfair isn't banned strictly because of MK. Everyone says that and it's just not true. That stage is just as dumb for several other characters and dumb on it's own without taking into account what any character can do on it.
With that said, I've played a lot on Norfair at Aerial Raves and I wouldn't be "mad" if it was legal at a tournament because despite being bad, it's really not that bad... but I would never vote for it to be legal, personally.
PS2 I think is pretty much on the same level, but admittedly I have not tested it much at all. I'll be willing to put in some time with it to be sure, but I'm already pretty sure that it's not a stage worth using.
Neither of those stages are like Pictochat or Japes, where you can avoid most things if you know what's up or use them to your advantage. The mechanics and level design are just so bizarre that I can't imagine why people would want to play there to begin with :\.
I mean, I like the layout of neutral PS2 and Norfair, but that doesn't matter once the stage starts going nuts and pwning everyone with random and/or weird stupidity.
lol
With that said, I've played a lot on Norfair at Aerial Raves and I wouldn't be "mad" if it was legal at a tournament because despite being bad, it's really not that bad... but I would never vote for it to be legal, personally.
PS2 I think is pretty much on the same level, but admittedly I have not tested it much at all. I'll be willing to put in some time with it to be sure, but I'm already pretty sure that it's not a stage worth using.
Neither of those stages are like Pictochat or Japes, where you can avoid most things if you know what's up or use them to your advantage. The mechanics and level design are just so bizarre that I can't imagine why people would want to play there to begin with :\.
I mean, I like the layout of neutral PS2 and Norfair, but that doesn't matter once the stage starts going nuts and pwning everyone with random and/or weird stupidity.
lol
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
Drop Norfair and PS2 discussion.
They are staying banned.
Unless everyone else attending this tourney decides it should be legal then it's staying banned, or if Ampharos gives a legit reason why it is legit in one paragraph or less, and everyone else attending the tourney agrees, because I don't think I've read a single one of his posts to date.
They are staying banned.
Unless everyone else attending this tourney decides it should be legal then it's staying banned, or if Ampharos gives a legit reason why it is legit in one paragraph or less, and everyone else attending the tourney agrees, because I don't think I've read a single one of his posts to date.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
lmfao, you are so sexy when you're assertive. Let's make out. I <3 you.
Radium88
Smash Lord
So I am st00pid. I realized we can make it a 6 person crew (plus it's like pokemon number as Steve mentioned it to me). I also reread posts and people had 6 people planned. If a region doesn't have enough, they can borrow from other regions like I said about smaller regions. But all in all, I just want this to be fun...I had a good time that one crew battle and I haven't seen it happen since so yeah this just needs to be fun.
@ Milk!! : I knew I picked you as my co-TO for a reason. Because you are t3h awesome.
About the stage list: It's about 2 weeks before the tournament and I'd rather not have too many or any changes at all so the rules are pretty much set. If we have another tournament, depending on the success of this one, then we can debate about adding more to it just to diversify it or make it more challenging or whatever.
@ Steve (alt-f4): Lawl
About housing situation: Is anyone one manly enough to sleep in a shed? We have a shed outside that could possibly fit some people when it's time to go to sleep. If anyone is willing to rough it, that would be awesome. But it's not really roughing it because you're technically inside a building.
@ Milk!! : I knew I picked you as my co-TO for a reason. Because you are t3h awesome.
About the stage list: It's about 2 weeks before the tournament and I'd rather not have too many or any changes at all so the rules are pretty much set. If we have another tournament, depending on the success of this one, then we can debate about adding more to it just to diversify it or make it more challenging or whatever.
@ Steve (alt-f4): Lawl
About housing situation: Is anyone one manly enough to sleep in a shed? We have a shed outside that could possibly fit some people when it's time to go to sleep. If anyone is willing to rough it, that would be awesome. But it's not really roughing it because you're technically inside a building.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
@Metal
We weren't planning to make out already?
@Rauleen
I try. Both stages are kinda' gay (Though I kinda' grew to hate Norfair a bit less considering how much I got CP'ed on it.), PS2 is hella' gay.
Also, anyone who knows much about hacking, could you make me a ZIP with the proper files on it to run it on Homebrew with the codes Infinite Replays and names in replays? I wanna' get as much tourney footage as I can from this, so if we're playing on my Wii, just save all replays (If I can get this code file) to my SD card.
We weren't planning to make out already?
@Rauleen
I try. Both stages are kinda' gay (Though I kinda' grew to hate Norfair a bit less considering how much I got CP'ed on it.), PS2 is hella' gay.
Also, anyone who knows much about hacking, could you make me a ZIP with the proper files on it to run it on Homebrew with the codes Infinite Replays and names in replays? I wanna' get as much tourney footage as I can from this, so if we're playing on my Wii, just save all replays (If I can get this code file) to my SD card.
FightAdamantEevee
Smash Lord
Norfair is a super funtastic stage. :D But idc if it's banned as long as I have my Brinstar.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
Yeah Norfair is fun, but it's whatev.
Brinstar is cool.
Brinstar is cool.
BOLT08
Smash Lord
I know Razor would be more willing to come if PS2 wasn't banned, and then I'd be more likely to come. I personally don't have a major problem with either stage. I'm not a fan of either stage by any means but they aren't any worse than some of the other CP's imo.
<3 my avatar
<3 my avatar
how is this different from PS2? you don't even have to avoid any powerful stage hazards, just use the different physics to your advantage. i mean, are they bizarre? maybe. it's certainly unique. but that's what gives it the potential to be a good counterpick for smart players. i mean, pictochat has the transformations with hazards that last throughout entire phases and the air one that restricts movement just as much as some of PS2's. this AND you aren't even given clear warning as to when and what the next change will be. PS2 does both so you have plenty of time to strategize and put yourself in a good position.
idk it just seems like the general consensus is "eh PS2 is weird and i'd rather not deal with it. ban." that's not why you ban stages. i really doubt that PS2 has anything broken about it.
Mr. Doom
Smash Hero
Mr. Doom will agree to PS2 and Norfair if anyone wants to take Mr. Doom there (just remind Mr. Doom about it, though, cuz Mr. Doom will forget). Counterpicking doesn't matter to Mr. Doom, unless Mr. Doom is doing the counterpicking.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
lol.
I could care less about either of them, if someone isn't going to go because two stages are on, then whatever.
I don't see anything personally wrong with PS2, but I could care less if it is on or not, I won't CP it.
Like I said, please just drop the discussion on it, It's banned unless everyone here wants it on. I'm NOT unbanning it for one or two people, end of story.
I could care less about either of them, if someone isn't going to go because two stages are on, then whatever.
I don't see anything personally wrong with PS2, but I could care less if it is on or not, I won't CP it.
Like I said, please just drop the discussion on it, It's banned unless everyone here wants it on. I'm NOT unbanning it for one or two people, end of story.
i'm probably not going to CP it either but i don't see why it shouldn't be on.
idk let's see what MMM and company have to say about my argument, i think PS2 is just as good as pictochat and japes are. we are all civil here and we all know each other. nothing but good can come from a healthy debate.
idk let's see what MMM and company have to say about my argument, i think PS2 is just as good as pictochat and japes are. we are all civil here and we all know each other. nothing but good can come from a healthy debate.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
In my eyes, a stage should be banned if it is just utterly unplayable.
Norfair: I don't think this stage is anywhere close to being unplayable. It's easy enough to avoid the lava, and what someone said earlier, I think Affnity or Metal, the lava spurts from the back can come out in ridiculous bunches, making it kind of hard to avoid, but most of the characters it helps, excluding Metaknight, kind of need help anyways. (Ness, Ganon, Lucas, etc etc.)
Pokemon Stadium 2: This one is 50 50. Most of the transformations are incredibly gay, everyone can agree on that, but IMHO the air stage is really the only one that is just completely ridiculous. The electric one, just don't get on the conveyor belts, the mountain one, not much wrong with it, and the ice one is kinda' silly, but it's whatever. It's playable, but the air stage is making me REALLY hard biased against it, cause it's hella gay.
Norfair: I don't think this stage is anywhere close to being unplayable. It's easy enough to avoid the lava, and what someone said earlier, I think Affnity or Metal, the lava spurts from the back can come out in ridiculous bunches, making it kind of hard to avoid, but most of the characters it helps, excluding Metaknight, kind of need help anyways. (Ness, Ganon, Lucas, etc etc.)
Pokemon Stadium 2: This one is 50 50. Most of the transformations are incredibly gay, everyone can agree on that, but IMHO the air stage is really the only one that is just completely ridiculous. The electric one, just don't get on the conveyor belts, the mountain one, not much wrong with it, and the ice one is kinda' silly, but it's whatever. It's playable, but the air stage is making me REALLY hard biased against it, cause it's hella gay.
how is it gay? i'm legitimately interested in what you think is wrong with it. if it's "air camping", it's really not much different from getting caught in a pictochat structure and not leaving...or the fire/rock transformations and how obvious the positional advantages are and how disadvantageous approaching is. plus, i don't think there's a way to stay above the ceiling for the entire duration of the transformation unless you are mini-sized (but i could be wrong). either way, doing that is an OBVIOUS case of stalling and making the game literally unplayable...and thus would be banned under this tournament's ruleset.
it makes approaching through the air much more difficult for some characters but that's a unique trait that you can use depending on your character, and opens up some counterpicking options (not unlike norfair).
idk. the rock transformation on PS1 is also pretty crappy in a variety of ways (wall infinites, recovering high on the left side is way less effective, people die ridiculously early at the top of the cliff, often the battle halts to a stalemate for the duration of the transformation) but we accept it because overall, PS1 is still a decent stage.
it makes approaching through the air much more difficult for some characters but that's a unique trait that you can use depending on your character, and opens up some counterpicking options (not unlike norfair).
idk. the rock transformation on PS1 is also pretty crappy in a variety of ways (wall infinites, recovering high on the left side is way less effective, people die ridiculously early at the top of the cliff, often the battle halts to a stalemate for the duration of the transformation) but we accept it because overall, PS1 is still a decent stage.
BOLT08
Smash Lord
I don't understand what you mean by utterly unplayable?