Greater Toronto Area Thread - The other other other other other other other other Pokemon Thread

[KirbyKaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NtlqpeFNxs

old but awesome

 

[Ministry]

hold my spot til sunday, il find out sat if its for sure. il post tommorow

 

[Summonedfist]

Hey guys, any casual/tournies happening from dec 23rd to Jan 10th? I'll be back in town and it would be fun to play all you guys again like old times.

Oh, and a big congratulations to Dragon_Hawk =D!

lol i remember meeting david for the first time at AN07 iirc...

Dragon hawk =D

kurtis, james, tristan, bernard...i guess i must be forgetting someone.

lol, it's probably still vacant

can anyone link me to the tourney thing?

 

[Ministry]

i might still be able to go, il update soon

 

[Summonedfist]

lol i was jk

 

[KirbyKaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvOucvTpKrE&feature=channel

 

[idea]

oh yeah, i had a thought earlier.

everyone: define "camping."

 

[KirbyKaze]

In video gaming, camping is a tactic of waiting for enemies to come to the player or useful objects to appear rather than actively seeking them out. Players camp in order to gain an advantage over their opponents.

- wikipedia

 

[C 3]

Anybody want to come by tomorrow for casuals? 8 person cap

 

[duyzee]

Golden Sun 3 coming out in a 2 days, anyone hyped or going to get it?

 

[Summonedfist]

noob question what's GS3 coming out for? lol

and regarding camping: sometimes it's funny, cuz it'll be like say for example armada vs. zhu on battlefield
armada will be dd/waiting under right platform and zhu will be doing fancy wavelanding stuff on the top and left platform...and they go "zhuuuu is platform camping... but that won't beat armada!" or smething

but they never say armada is camping the right ledge lol so apparently spending more times on platforms than the main level is camping

camping is weird.

 

[duyzee]

It's coming out for NDS. And camping is JMan *laser, laser, laser, run across the stage with sh bair/nair & repeat"

 

[idea]

~

yeah, armada seems pretty campy to me =P that annoying guy who kept yelling stuff at apex was right...he really does spend a lot of time floating, waiting, fairing, until he gets in on someone.

the concept just seems to have a lot of different interpretations in melee...david's wikipedia quote doesn't cover all the ways people use the word. but maybe that's just people using it too liberally...?

i think about it a fair bit because i'm conscious of the fact that most people find my character annoying, and i want to continue playing her without making the game unenjoyable for others =/ i imagine i should probably think about it less, but meh. it's in my nature to try not to bother people.

Golden Sun 3 coming out in a 2 days, anyone hyped or going to get it?

JESUS ****

GOLDEN SUN 3 COMES OUT IN 3 DAYS!!

THAT SURE SNUCK THE HELL UP ON ME caps

i just hope it's still in stock on tuesday...

edit:

It's coming out for NDS. And camping is JMan *laser, laser, laser, run across the stage with sh bair/nair & repeat"

what's interesting is that, while i agree you with you that he's pretty campy, what you described is more like "approaching only sometimes."

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm curious.

What does my definition miss?

 

[idea]

hmmm...

things like...spacing moves just outside someone's range. you're not approaching, but you're also not exactly waiting for them to COME to you, since you're right beside them...i'm imaging marth spacing retreating fairs, as close as he can get without it being unsafe.

it's a bit different from, say, getting to a high up spot and sniping everyone. you're kind of right in their face, yet not approaching.

 

[Riddlebox]

Not moving from your self-affirmed "safe spot" to actively engage the enemy. Your safe spot per-say doesn't have to be a literal point on the battlefield. Rather than thrill yourself in active combat you look to react to their aggressive behavior as they enter your comfort zone.

I dunno, it's hard to say...certain character's benefits come from turtleing and it happens unconsciously because it's the only way you can take less damage or get ***** by obvious baits.

 

[idea]

i dunno if i would call that "camping" though. it seems like there should be a similar, but less emphatic word for that, that would be more appropriate...like "defensive" or "reactionary."

 

[Riddlebox]

It would seem so if you would take my explanation or use of reaction out of context. It's just one of the skills needed to benefit from camping.

 

[Summonedfist]

i dont think retreating fairs should be considered camping or spacing moves really well

lasering is easily campy though, and running away/bairs/laser more

edit:

i think about it a fair bit because i'm conscious of the fact that most people find my character annoying, and i want to continue playing her without making the game unenjoyable for others =/ i imagine i should probably think about it less, but meh. it's in my nature to try not to bother people.

lol that reminds me about that time i struck us to dl64 fox vs. puff and i started laser camping, just to try it out since i suck at camping LOL

then ppl came into the room and was like "whaaaaaaaaaaaaat camping ewwwwwwww"

LOL, then i felt bad and started approaching stupidly and lost

Spoiler

/johns lol

 

[idea]

lolll i forget when that was...

i don't mind it thaat much when people camp me though, because that gives me license to do it back. i just get tired of it over time. it's probably related to how i can only play brawl for 15 minutes before getting bored of it. being forced to approach with a much slower character is just irritating, i feel like i'm doing all the work.

 

[KirbyKaze]

hmmm...

things like...spacing moves just outside someone's range. you're not approaching, but you're also not exactly waiting for them to COME to you, since you're right beside them...i'm imaging marth spacing retreating fairs, as close as he can get without it being unsafe.

it's a bit different from, say, getting to a high up spot and sniping everyone. you're kind of right in their face, yet not approaching.

You're still waiting for them to come into your space, though. And not actively seeking them out.

The only difference is that instead of waiting by doing nothing or moving, you're waiting by only doing safe things that you want them to jump/roll/throw themselves into.

 

[idea]

i mean, i know they're similar, but that seems significantly different to me than...yeah, than jman =P

i wonder if intent is important. like if you're TRYING to approach and just can't do so safely, is that different from not even trying to approach?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Now that I think about it I suppose Marth tossing around moves would be more comparable to "zoning" but that term isn't really popular in the smash community. Zoning = active defense. It comes from 2D fighting communities like SF and whatnot (I think?). He's sort of camping, sort of not. He's controlling space and trying to make you attack unsafely.

I'm not really sure intent matters.

 

[idea]

okay, then i think we agree. i also would have called marth spacing retreating fairs "sort of camping." and it would seem that "sort of camping" is not negative, whereas "camping" is.

philosophyyyyyyyyyyy

i'm picturing a scale...on one end is camping, on the other is rushing in recklessly. zoning is somewhere in the middle. dash dance camping is pretty similar to zoning.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Camping = Bad

Is stupid lol

Even if it's annoying and lame to deal with

Welcome to SSBM lol

 

[idea]

i agree.

here is my (slight) dilemma. it still bothers people. i think they have a bad attitude, and should get over it, but in the meantime, i'm just annoying them. and in general i don't like to annoy people. i'd rather they be happy =P

especially since it's assumed i'm already jigglypuff. which is basically the same situation. shouldn't be annoying but is anyway.

 

[Runawayfire]

Competitive games should reward taking the offensive initiative, if only by a little bit.
Any game that defense is better than offense has a problem IMO.

 

[JPOBS]

i personally dont have a problem with puff camping. camping her back with my gun and top platform feeels soooooo goooodd.

falco on the other hand can be annoying as hell.

 

[RaynEX]

Competitive games should reward taking the offensive initiative, if only by a little bit.
Any game that defense is better than offense has a problem IMO.

That's a big statement. Almost every competitive fighting game favours defense. Its no secret that setting up offense requires the player to partake in a game of chance. At the very least, attacking opens yourself up to risks and decisions you otherwise wouldn't encounter while on defense.

To say games that favour defense have problems, implies that almost every SF and Arcsystem gave has problems. Defense has always been a better strategy. Its never been a problem.


edit:

Anybody want to come by tomorrow for casuals? 8 person cap

Way to glide over an opportunity to smash guys. With the lack of events this year I would have thought people would jump at a smashfest invitation.

 

[Bing]

That **** about camping, like with Marth retreating with fairs reminds me of Hbox's spam b'airs... similar effect, though different because puffs arms are considerably shorter then Marth's sword(durr)

 

[Sanu]

Way to glide over an opportunity to smash guys. With the lack of events this year I would have thought people would jump at a smashfest invitation.

I don't know about other people, but I've spent my whole weekend working on my operating system project with my group members in Waterloo. It's been many a long nights and we're finally almost done

Still <3 you Charles

 

[idea]

i woulda gone to charles', but still busy with essays, so i didn't bother posting. sucks too, i must be incredibly rusty by now =/

hungrybox is interesting, cause yeah, he does mostly do the "zoning" thing. i could probably find a tournament match where he is "trying to approach" almost or the entire time.

 

[Runawayfire]

That's a big statement. Almost every competitive fighting game favours defense. Its no secret that setting up offense requires the player to partake in a game of chance. At the very least, attacking opens yourself up to risks and decisions you otherwise wouldn't encounter while on defense.

To say games that favour defense have problems, implies that almost every SF and Arcsystem gave has problems. Defense has always been a better strategy. Its never been a problem.

You are referring to the inherent characteristics of reactionary play though. By basis of reacting, you are the one who responds, and doesn't take initiative.

What I am referring to are the games counter-balances for this. The game must provide some kind of reward for abandoning the inherent benefits of being on defense.

For instance, in Starcraft a battle won on the offensive (In your opponents base) results in pretty much death for them every time, while a battle won on the defensive (in your own base) doesn't result in a win every time, as the opponent still has a chance to defend your counterattack in most cases.

Now, this is just another inherent characteristic of the game, not a specific offensive ballance, but it shows what I mean.
Blazblue attempts to make up for the reactionary advantage by giving defensive penalties and the like.

Not every character or strategy has to be offensive, but there must be some reward to the initiative. This is the downfall of brawl (and to the same extent brawl+), there are no rewards for taking offensive initiative.

 

[Bing]

Man I'd love a Smashfest... Havent been able to play anyone decent in well over a month, and that was at some ****ty school tournament where the next best player was freakin out because I was wave dashing... like seriously... wave dashing... but before then was like a year before... getting tired of 4 stocking computers XD

 

[Riddlebox]

Work Johns =( I want a smashfest too but I'm on nights now .../sad

 

[KirbyKaze]

The sense I get from Nate is that, basically, defense can't be an overpowered strat. There has to be some reason that attacking might be a good thing. It is okay for defense to be favoured but there must also be some reason that taking the initiative is a legitimate option.

I think Melee on the whole is okay about this sort of thing.

People are free to disagree though.

 

[Summonedfist]

lol bernard it's finals season


what REALLY bothers me when ppl overshoot you >_> wait for you to jump at them and then they just dash away and hit the spot you were in or run back to grab

yes it's smart, and it's easily counterable, but it just makes the game so lame for me lol

"oh you're just gonna DD/stand there... i'mma come hit you then.. since you won't come to me"
"...ya come hit me "
"oh lawl i missed"
"lawl you missed AND i hit you back"

certain ppl do this to me WAY too much LOLOL you know who you are

meh

 

[JPOBS]

as opposed to what jack?

just standing there and letting your opponent jump at you and hit you? lol

 

[Summonedfist]

LOL i know that's the thing about this game x(

i always shield -> stuff OOS haha

that's cuz i have a shine most of the time tho x)

like overshooting can be fun during like, actual fighting

but when they camp one side of the stage, and overshoot as soon as you approach... -> lame

 

[idea]

lol, i have to get into the habit of doing that more.