john!
Smash Hero
?? what is your definition of hypercarry? and how does it not include vayne?
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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!
- Thread starter JTB
- Start date
game goes in a way that can be reliably achieved = you never lose.
Vayne being the ultimate glass cannon doesn't scream hyper carry to me. That Caitlyn with the same amount of gold as you is going to kill you first and has a lot more margin for error, while achieving important things like objectives with a lot more ease.
There's more to being god than just being able to kill people. And I'm talking in more solo queue-esque things where how reliably you can achieve things in situations you can't rely on your team mate. Oh I'm a Vladimir who's ahead? The enemy team needs to send at least 2 people to kill me (and chances are people are going to die trying to kill me), I clear waves instantly without any resource problems, I get a ton of free stats/gold and he can "1v5" (or basically end team fights instantly with a good ult). I can do things other characters can't do, while still being better or just as good at things they can do.
tl;dr I tend to think of hyper carries as characters that literally do not have late game counters. Some of the things I listed as hyper carries don't necessarily follow that rule but have godlike tools (usually zoning/position punishing things like Anivia, Cho, Veigar)
Vayne being the ultimate glass cannon doesn't scream hyper carry to me. That Caitlyn with the same amount of gold as you is going to kill you first and has a lot more margin for error, while achieving important things like objectives with a lot more ease.
There's more to being god than just being able to kill people. And I'm talking in more solo queue-esque things where how reliably you can achieve things in situations you can't rely on your team mate. Oh I'm a Vladimir who's ahead? The enemy team needs to send at least 2 people to kill me (and chances are people are going to die trying to kill me), I clear waves instantly without any resource problems, I get a ton of free stats/gold and he can "1v5" (or basically end team fights instantly with a good ult). I can do things other characters can't do, while still being better or just as good at things they can do.
tl;dr I tend to think of hyper carries as characters that literally do not have late game counters. Some of the things I listed as hyper carries don't necessarily follow that rule but have godlike tools (usually zoning/position punishing things like Anivia, Cho, Veigar)
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Life
Smash Hero
How about Poppy? Or does she not count for her hilariously bad early game?
"Carry" as a noun seems to be synonymous with a DPSer. (Never really been fond of the term, games can be carried by full tank Udyr for instance, but I don't think anyone would call him "a carry".) Does this mean we're looking for champs who do a "hyper" amount of DPS? Does this make Yi a hypercarry, even though he's inconsistent? What about a damaging tank like Shyvana, who may not have high DPS but at least does damage reliably? Where do burst damage champions fit in?
Are we looking for "wins the game if they get ahead"? Because depending on how severely "ahead" we're talking, that could describe almost the whole cast. Are we using "hypercarry" as a synonym for "OP"? That's a different can of worms, I think. Vayne's not in a strong spot right now, but she's probably the most cited marksman for "hypercarry" status, after Kog/Trist/maybe Jinx.
And then you have situational cases such as Yasuo who are either borderline broken or pretty weak depending on who else is in the game.
I still feel like "hypercarry" isn't a meaningful term in League. (Maybe in other MOBAs where you have characters who can literally 1v5.)
"Carry" as a noun seems to be synonymous with a DPSer. (Never really been fond of the term, games can be carried by full tank Udyr for instance, but I don't think anyone would call him "a carry".) Does this mean we're looking for champs who do a "hyper" amount of DPS? Does this make Yi a hypercarry, even though he's inconsistent? What about a damaging tank like Shyvana, who may not have high DPS but at least does damage reliably? Where do burst damage champions fit in?
Are we looking for "wins the game if they get ahead"? Because depending on how severely "ahead" we're talking, that could describe almost the whole cast. Are we using "hypercarry" as a synonym for "OP"? That's a different can of worms, I think. Vayne's not in a strong spot right now, but she's probably the most cited marksman for "hypercarry" status, after Kog/Trist/maybe Jinx.
And then you have situational cases such as Yasuo who are either borderline broken or pretty weak depending on who else is in the game.
I still feel like "hypercarry" isn't a meaningful term in League. (Maybe in other MOBAs where you have characters who can literally 1v5.)
Emphasis: Lack of late game counters.
Poppy can be obnoxious and eventually turns into someone who can't be 1v1'd by anyone bar super kiters. Good luck being Poppy against a kitey poke comp.
There is a sheer lack of counters to an extremely low cooldown stupendously long range (2200) aoe skill shot. Kog'Maw at 16 has close to no counters with basic positioning (may change in a year when all the new champs will all have 1500 range blinks with immunity to slows and 90% damage reduction). If Riot put through that Q change (upping its range to 1000 + a skill shot with better scaling: HOLY ****ING ****).
Vladimir amplifies damage for his team, is nigh impossible to kill (can chain invulnerability so many times) and gets a metric ton of free gold as the game goes on. There are so few characters who can 1v1 him from level 9 onwards that its flat out unfair. One of the few characters left with sustain mechanics as strong as he has.
Malzahar builds pure ap tank and will out damage every character in the game who builds pure damage (I end games with 4k health and I one-shot tanks, very balanced). Obnoxious laning. A zone of control of about 800-900 that no character with fewer range can deal with.
Malphite: ROCK ****ING SOLIDhas ridiculous tank steroids. No one in the game has anything comparable except Mundo.
Nasus: 800 range 5 second cc. One shotting turrets/people is just a bonus.
Tristana: 700+ range, best AS steroid in the game and 2 extremely solid escapes. Healing debuff in the late game is extremely strong. Tristana is legitimately the only character in the game I fear as Malzahar.
Poppy can be obnoxious and eventually turns into someone who can't be 1v1'd by anyone bar super kiters. Good luck being Poppy against a kitey poke comp.
There is a sheer lack of counters to an extremely low cooldown stupendously long range (2200) aoe skill shot. Kog'Maw at 16 has close to no counters with basic positioning (may change in a year when all the new champs will all have 1500 range blinks with immunity to slows and 90% damage reduction). If Riot put through that Q change (upping its range to 1000 + a skill shot with better scaling: HOLY ****ING ****).
Vladimir amplifies damage for his team, is nigh impossible to kill (can chain invulnerability so many times) and gets a metric ton of free gold as the game goes on. There are so few characters who can 1v1 him from level 9 onwards that its flat out unfair. One of the few characters left with sustain mechanics as strong as he has.
Malzahar builds pure ap tank and will out damage every character in the game who builds pure damage (I end games with 4k health and I one-shot tanks, very balanced). Obnoxious laning. A zone of control of about 800-900 that no character with fewer range can deal with.
Malphite: ROCK ****ING SOLID
Nasus: 800 range 5 second cc. One shotting turrets/people is just a bonus.
Tristana: 700+ range, best AS steroid in the game and 2 extremely solid escapes. Healing debuff in the late game is extremely strong. Tristana is legitimately the only character in the game I fear as Malzahar.
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I had a 1v5 as AP Kog, but that was before the nerfs to his ult's damage and scaling mana costs.
If there's a character that could come close to being a walking god that you get in other mobas it's probably AP Kog. Raining down 500+ damage AoE nukes at over 2000 range on a less than 1 second cooldown.
If there's a character that could come close to being a walking god that you get in other mobas it's probably AP Kog. Raining down 500+ damage AoE nukes at over 2000 range on a less than 1 second cooldown.
DANDADANDADANDADANDADANDADADADDANDADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAn~
The nerfs resulted in you feeling like a god a little bit later than usual. Which sucks. Still by virtue of his kit wrecks face.
The nerfs resulted in you feeling like a god a little bit later than usual. Which sucks. Still by virtue of his kit wrecks face.
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#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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Some people can kite Nasus if they build for it, some don't even have to they can just walk away from him.
If Ezreal builds blue, you will never get close enough to Q him.
If Ezreal builds blue, you will never get close enough to Q him.
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Ezreal is pretty godly.
Leacero
Smash Lord
late game poppy is an untouchable god
I thought a hypercarry was supposed to be any champion who can 'carry' a game when everyone on the map is full build.
I don't know why someone would complain about having a Fiora on your team when she's one of the most obnoxious champions in the game. She's just steriods and targeted nukes. Melee ADs are just obnoxious in general. They have the lowest skill requirement in order to carry a game, because they're just all stats and miminal-to-no mechanics. And when I say mechanics, I don't meant stuff like AA resets and combos, I mean actually interacting with your opponent by doing things like dodging their skillshots, or peeling someone mid gap-closer with your CC. Stuff that actually takes kill.
Honestly, all you have to do is arrive to a skirmish late when all the cds have been blown, clean up for a double kill and the game is basically over. I've mained APs ever since I've started playing LoL, but I'm probably better with melee ADs just because of how much simpler they are to use to a similar, if not greater effect.
Also Shaya, I feel like Malz loses lane to melees with gapclosers. A e-q combo from Wukong does like a quarter of Malz's health. I feel that in general, squishies lose lane to gapclosers because you're gonna get heavily outtraded any time you use a skill for anything except for actually trading.
I don't know why someone would complain about having a Fiora on your team when she's one of the most obnoxious champions in the game. She's just steriods and targeted nukes. Melee ADs are just obnoxious in general. They have the lowest skill requirement in order to carry a game, because they're just all stats and miminal-to-no mechanics. And when I say mechanics, I don't meant stuff like AA resets and combos, I mean actually interacting with your opponent by doing things like dodging their skillshots, or peeling someone mid gap-closer with your CC. Stuff that actually takes kill.
Honestly, all you have to do is arrive to a skirmish late when all the cds have been blown, clean up for a double kill and the game is basically over. I've mained APs ever since I've started playing LoL, but I'm probably better with melee ADs just because of how much simpler they are to use to a similar, if not greater effect.
Also Shaya, I feel like Malz loses lane to melees with gapclosers. A e-q combo from Wukong does like a quarter of Malz's health. I feel that in general, squishies lose lane to gapclosers because you're gonna get heavily outtraded any time you use a skill for anything except for actually trading.
Voidlings.
All in characters can give malzahar a hard time in lane, sure. Shame I can harass at 600+ range and can last hit while not even being in lane.
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Malz does a lot of damage but I wouldn't call him a hypercarry. He doesn't stand a chance of 1v5ing.
Does anyone here play PBE? Before I stopped playing I remember they were talking about how PBE is going to be done differently, they're going to do it in waves, no more permanent PBE access. Did they switch to that yet, or can I still update my PBE patch and get in?
Does anyone here play PBE? Before I stopped playing I remember they were talking about how PBE is going to be done differently, they're going to do it in waves, no more permanent PBE access. Did they switch to that yet, or can I still update my PBE patch and get in?
Ussi
Smash Legend
malzahar can focus the tank to win teamfights, its so stupid LOL
Niko45
Smash Master
Every champion has enough late game if played properly. Every so called late game god/hyper carry/whatever can be quite easily countered (except for poppy which is literally uncounterable).
So the new mechanics for fear gives Shaco free backstabs when his boxes pop.
Definitely okay with this.
Definitely okay with this.
wow i didnt think of that. Seems like the new fear mechanics hurts others tho like fiddle and noct
Leacero
Smash Lord
any change that reduces RNG is A-OK in my book, not to mention that making them run away from the source of the fear makes more sense flavorwise
The new fear is still situationally better for Fiddles and Noct too, mainly when you gank from behind. Does make their lane ganks weaker though.
I guess it's also better when you are trying to disengage from a fight or peel.
I guess it's also better when you are trying to disengage from a fight or peel.
Life
Smash Hero
I could see Nocturne ulting to somebody in the back then fearing somebody else into his team, like a simpler version of the Insec combo on Lee Sin.
I'd imagine that would also be good for ganking bot lane. Get into the tribush near tower and ult from there so you can fear them into your teammates. Fiddle could likely pull something similar, albeit it'd be more difficult if they keep vision of that spot.
I'd imagine that would also be good for ganking bot lane. Get into the tribush near tower and ult from there so you can fear them into your teammates. Fiddle could likely pull something similar, albeit it'd be more difficult if they keep vision of that spot.
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2v5 is sufficient. I've pulled off some 1v5s in my time though (as i'm sure most people have). Having good vision within a jungle area, and being Malzahar things can happen. Timing spell casts to block skill shots, 3 second silences. Everyone just melting. Malzahar definitely has the damage to 1v5. As in my team mates don't need to be dealing damage in a team fight, I can do it all for them. There really aren't any characters in the game who can boast that other than Karthus.
Yeah when I first read this I was like "****" NUU SHACO NERFS, IVE JUST REDISCOVERED THE LIGHT. Then I realised, wait a second, standard procedure of jitbs will have enemies walk into you (you throw jitbs ahead of you / behind them), and in siege situations as shacoinsurance will have the enemy move away from you too. It may actually make jitb stacking work again if you arrange them properly (well, also makes general single jitb wait plays weaker I'd say).
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Ussi
Smash Legend
jitbs can't proc backstab
he meant from auto attacks. before the jitb would make them walk around aimlessly, leaving it pretty hard to get backstab procs reliably.
Yeah, not from the boxes but Shaco himself.
You couldn't reliably set up a backstab when they were feared before because they could just randomly turn around.
With the forced movement now you can set things up to where you get a free backstab Shiv and 1-2 autos on them before the fear ends.
Plus you can set boxes up to cut their path off as before, only now it forces them back into you and/or your team.
Not sure how Fiddles and Nocturne like the changes overall, but it seems like Shaco benefits in a lot of situations.
You couldn't reliably set up a backstab when they were feared before because they could just randomly turn around.
With the forced movement now you can set things up to where you get a free backstab Shiv and 1-2 autos on them before the fear ends.
Plus you can set boxes up to cut their path off as before, only now it forces them back into you and/or your team.
Not sure how Fiddles and Nocturne like the changes overall, but it seems like Shaco benefits in a lot of situations.
The movement speed on the new fear though is apparently bugged. Either doesn't work like it should or doesn't work at all. Otherwise the plus and minus of box for shaco now is that when you gank and throw the box behind them, if they don't react fast enough they run towards your turret/ally now.
Downside is when getting chased and you put it in front of you, by the time they pass it is when it'll pop out and push them out towards you still even when feared and depending if the fear Movespeed impairment even works.
There more pros of course cause also pushing creeps in jungle away from the boxes when it comes to buffs and golems.
Downside is when getting chased and you put it in front of you, by the time they pass it is when it'll pop out and push them out towards you still even when feared and depending if the fear Movespeed impairment even works.
There more pros of course cause also pushing creeps in jungle away from the boxes when it comes to buffs and golems.
r u srsz?
lik rly
lik rly
Zano
Smash Master
very serious, we don't play around in this thread
How do you guys fight a Trynd? As Rumble I normally win my lane even against supposedly bad match ups like Riven and Jax at my elo, but I can't deal with Trynd. He seems to outrade my combo and ult with just his basic spells and then can ult to survive ignite or ult ticks. He could insta-gib me after backing after one kill with just basic combo, not even needing ignite. I have no idea what the counterplay to this champion is. He seems to do insane damage with no items and can just ult whenever he misplays. Halp plz.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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Biggest help was learning which direction to face when he does his shout.
Otherwise, I hate the champion as well unless I am the few who can out duel him early, Irelia/Teemo or just not care about him because your kit has an answer, Nasus.
Otherwise, I hate the champion as well unless I am the few who can out duel him early, Irelia/Teemo or just not care about him because your kit has an answer, Nasus.
Yeah. You deal with melee cheese carries by counter picking them, with cheese. Honestly, I look for any excuse to go Lee Sin top, and so does literally every other player who's ever used Lee. Embrace your Inner Sin. Every melee character you hate, they hate Lee about 5x as much. Nothing more enjoyable than out trading at level 1, out pushing at level 1 and being able to pop that ***** at level 2 when you get it first. Oh, and being able to maintain that flow forever unless jungle intervention / you mess up.
Otherwise you need to win the lane at level 1/2 (you need to be able to push up quickly and stop tryn from doing the exact same thing) and pray that you can keep that lead and maybe dive him pre-6 with your jungler when he's lowish health. Then you won't have to worry about him much (for a while, usually).
There really is only a small list of characters who aren't early game gods who can take on Tryndamere. If he can bait you to waste resources and push him up to turret where you cannot harass him/deny him? You've lost the lane.
Otherwise you need to win the lane at level 1/2 (you need to be able to push up quickly and stop tryn from doing the exact same thing) and pray that you can keep that lead and maybe dive him pre-6 with your jungler when he's lowish health. Then you won't have to worry about him much (for a while, usually).
There really is only a small list of characters who aren't early game gods who can take on Tryndamere. If he can bait you to waste resources and push him up to turret where you cannot harass him/deny him? You've lost the lane.
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SuperBowser
Smash Lord
my new favourite top champion is quinn.
she also beats trondomere.
she also beats trondomere.
Zano
Smash Master
yeah but then you lose the match for picking quinn top
SuperBowser
Smash Lord
but i'm in diamond series with quinn 
Life
Smash Hero
Well that was certainly an LCS game.
Zano
Smash Master
don't believe p3 he likes bad champs.
But he embraces the cancer when he claws slowly back to Diamond 1. So I enjoy that he likes bad characters.